This was a first

8U coach pitch travel - that I simply don't understand

sheer parental lunacy - that I understand all too well

Reminds me of a game of my son's at Cooperstown.  He was playing SS with a guy on first.....grounder to second.....flips to my son covering the bag who proceeds to throw a cannon toward first....only problem is the kid coming didn't slide.  Ball hit him square on the front of the helmet.....went straight over first base over the fence and into the next field. I think my son was the only one who knew where it went.   Son had a heck of an arm for a 12 year old.  I bet the kid slid the next time.

Not the same situation, but reminded me of this play in the 2015 ALDS between the Rangers and the Jays.

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/9...hrow-careens-off-bat

As I understand the rule it is 1 base from where the play started so awarding him 3rd base was the correct call.  

IEBSBL posted:

As I understand the rule it is 1 base from where the play started so awarding him 3rd base was the correct call.  

Actually, in looking through everything - the only "1 base award" on a ball thrown out of play is one thrown out of play by the pitcher from the rubber.  All other awards are two bases - the only thing to address is whether the award is made from the time of throw or the time of pitch.  If the batter is in the box and the contact with the bat wasn't intentional on his part - it's a live ball. (Like the video above) The ball just happened to go out of play in this case.

If the catcher is considered an infielder (he's not an infielder by definition, but usually is considered one for rules like this) it would have been from time of pitch, if not it would have been from time of throw.  Either way though, a two base award should have scored the runner. He ended up scoring anyway, so it didn't change the outcome fortunately.

Rob T posted:

IEBSBL posted:

As I understand the rule it is 1 base from where the play started so awarding him 3rd base was the correct call.  

Actually, in looking through everything - the only "1 base award" on a ball thrown out of play is one thrown out of play by the pitcher from the rubber.  All other awards are two bases - the only thing to address is whether the award is made from the time of throw or the time of pitch.  If the batter is in the box and the contact with the bat wasn't intentional on his part - it's a live ball. (Like the video above) The ball just happened to go out of play in this case.

If the catcher is considered an infielder (he's not an infielder by definition, but usually is considered one for rules like this) it would have been from time of pitch, if not it would have been from time of throw.  Either way though, a two base award should have scored the runner. He ended up scoring anyway, so it didn't change the outcome fortunately.

Close. 

This is always two bases from the time of the throw. What I've bolded in your statement above applies to fielders making throws after a ball is batted. Since the ball was never batted, this is two bases from the time of the throw, no matter who throws it.

There's another issue here besides the base award. 

This was the plate umpire's call. The ball was thrown by the catcher and went over the backstop. The base umpire needs to keep out of it unless the plate umpire asks for help. 

It's fairly common for adult umpires paired up with teenaged umpires in youth games to act like they're the crew chief even when on the bases. It's good leadership training for youth umpires working the plate to learn how to stand up and assert their authority over the adult base umpires, starting with the pregame. 

You can't handle coaches until you can handle your partner. 

Matt13 posted:

Rob T posted:

IEBSBL posted:

As I understand the rule it is 1 base from where the play started so awarding him 3rd base was the correct call.  

Actually, in looking through everything - the only "1 base award" on a ball thrown out of play is one thrown out of play by the pitcher from the rubber.  All other awards are two bases - the only thing to address is whether the award is made from the time of throw or the time of pitch.  If the batter is in the box and the contact with the bat wasn't intentional on his part - it's a live ball. (Like the video above) The ball just happened to go out of play in this case.

If the catcher is considered an infielder (he's not an infielder by definition, but usually is considered one for rules like this) it would have been from time of pitch, if not it would have been from time of throw.  Either way though, a two base award should have scored the runner. He ended up scoring anyway, so it didn't change the outcome fortunately.

Close. 

This is always two bases from the time of the throw. What I've bolded in your statement above applies to fielders making throws after a ball is batted. Since the ball was never batted, this is two bases from the time of the throw, no matter who throws it.

I went back and looked at a full version of the rules with comments, rather than the abridged version I was looking at and here is what is written:

Rule 5.06(b)(4)(G) Comment (Rule 7.05(g) Comment)

APPROVED RULING:

....(such as catcher throwing ball into stands in attempt to get runner from third trying to score on passed ball or wild pitch) award of two bases shall be from the position of the runners at the time of the throw. (For the purpose of Rule 5.06(b)(4)(G) (Rule 7.05(g)) a catcher is considered an infielder.)

I think this provides the official guidance on what you said above.  Ignoring the "passed ball or wild pitch" portion which is irrelevant - if an infielder throws it out of play on a play where the batter did not become a runner, it is a two base award from the time of the throw. 

I've never seen this come into play before, but I guarantee now I will see it three times this weekend. 

Swampboy posted:

There's another issue here besides the base award. 

This was the plate umpire's call. The ball was thrown by the catcher and went over the backstop. The base umpire needs to keep out of it unless the plate umpire asks for help. 

It's fairly common for adult umpires paired up with teenaged umpires in youth games to act like they're the crew chief even when on the bases. It's good leadership training for youth umpires working the plate to learn how to stand up and assert their authority over the adult base umpires, starting with the pregame. 

You can't handle coaches until you can handle your partner. 

It's definitely something my son has had to deal with, but it's getting better.  He's by far the youngest guy out there working the level of play he works.  Whenever he is with a veteran guy, he has to prove himself I guess.  Guys that have worked with him, or had him working their games are always telling me he does a good job.

One local coach is part of the area college umpire association (or whatever they call it). He has told my son to attend their next certification clinic, and then he will get him work during the summer leagues down here. So, I guess he's doing something right.

In this particular case, he didn't see where the ball went - so I guess his partner making the call wasn't a huge issue. He called "dead ball - out of play", then pointed the runner to third.  My son was pretty sure the only one base award would be a pitcher throwing from the rubber - but his partner seemed confident in his call so he thought maybe he was mistaken.  I've always told him to let his partner own his calls unless he asks for help, so that's probably a factor as well.

Kudos to your son. His thought process was right.