Top Juco or DIV-1 University?

If you tell the coach(JUCO) that you would like to wait until after the high school season to sign, they will understand what you are telling them. They might say, well we can't gauranteee that we will have any scholarship money for you then. That may or may not be true. If they like him now, odds are they will like him in 8 months.

There are times when kids commit to both Juco & D-1 programs.
The D-1 NLI was signed during early period, Juco was second semester of Sr. Year.
Not recommending this practice...only passing along info.

Which Tx Juco? Many really excellent D-1 Jucos in Texas...San Jacinto typically tops the list, Grayson, Weatherford are also very good.
www.njcaa.com, region 3 & 5 will give you lots of info on baseball programs in Texas.
Many excellent mid-D-1 level colleges, too.

San Jac is in Houston. Big city atmosphere. Grayson, Navarro & Weatherford are rural, small town, with limited social-cultural-entertainment opportunities.
A few things he may want to consider:
Esthetics, size of campus, population, town-city amenities (like transportation, med facilities, variety of entertainment, etc) are things that help in determining the fit. What kind of academic support is available? Where do players transfer?
Good luck.

quote:

If you tell the coach(JUCO) that you would like to wait until after the high school season to sign, they will understand what you are telling them. They might say, well we can't gauranteee that we will have any scholarship money for you then. That may or may not be true. If they like him now, odds are they will like him in 8 months.

I agree! Bottomline IMO is if he wants to attend there or not. If he waits because he's interested in seeing what else develops, it's probably not the fit for him anyway.

It all depends what his long term goals are. The problem with alot of JUCO's is that there is a good chance he's going to major in Baseball and nothing else. He's going to have to be very disciplined in taking the correct classes and keeping his grades up so that he can transfer to a D-1 school after 2 years. It's not as easy as people think.

My son was in a similar boat-We're from Buffalo and there was a bunch of Florida JUCOS showing interest. He ended up with a very nice offer from D-1 University of Buffalo instead and it's worked out great. It looks like he'll graduate on time and he was the only player on the roster to start every game last season (as a true freshman IF). We couldn't be happier. The team is young and getting better and plays in a good conference-MAC. Maybe your nephew should contact UB and see what they say. Mom and dad might like the close commute to watch him play as well.

Ok, first off you speak like you know what you are talking about?? Secondly, you state that for "alot" of JUCO's, the main major offered is baseball. Well at the four year institutions, would it be accurate to say that baseball players that attend 4 year schools are majoring in "Partying 201" Instructor: Fraternity Boy?? That is a relevant question to your unwise remark. Many four year schools recruit heavily from JUCO's, especially if they want quick results. JUCO players must have a certain amount of hours to transfer onto the four year institution. People that are unaware of these rules make unintelligent comments on things you are really not that familiar with. Good luck to you and your son. Sounds like he is a good player if he starts as a true freshman.

From my experience, partying seems like a secondary effort for the athletes. Speaking for my son's experience, he has mandatory study halls-even as a sophomore. His academics in college have been much better than HS thus far.

For players to maintain their eligibilty, they have to be kept on a pretty strict schedule to ensure that they are on pace to graduate on time. I don't know the specifics, but it's like 50% of classes for your major completed by the end of sophomore and 75% by the end of junior year. That's where it's tough for the JUCO guys to come in when they've been getting credit for Baseball, volleyball, and badmitton. They have no classes towards a real degree and thus aren't eligible to transfer.

Now, I'm not so naive that I think my son never parties, but they do have scheduled lifts Sat. mornings at 6:30 AM, so I know Friday night anyway is an early one.

quote:

Originally posted by pfbear13:
That's where it's tough for the JUCO guys to come in when they've been getting credit for Baseball, volleyball, and badmitton. They have no classes towards a real degree and thus aren't eligible to transfer.

It doesn't have to be that way. Many JUCO's offer courses that will tranfer and apply toward four year school degree requirements.

Actually, it is the advanced student that has to really examine the JUCO situation closely. Some players leave HS with anywhere from 12-24 hours of college credit from either dual credit and/or AP courses. They may run out of courses to take at a JUCO, since they have already received credit for some of the basic freshman courses.

50% towards a degree is typically basic level classes. Any decent JUCO will be able to handle that, the one my son went to did. The problem is spending three years at a JC then trying to come up with the proper percentage towards a degree. While I wouldn't recommend a JC for the better students, they certainly fulfill a need.

quote:

That's where it's tough for the JUCO guys to come in when they've been getting credit for Baseball, volleyball, and badmitton. They have no classes towards a real degree and thus aren't eligible to transfer.

That's just not true. My son only attended a JUCO for one year before deciding to transfer on to a four year program. He had 35 transferrable hours with 24 of them being core classes. JUCOs do give credits for baseball, weight training, etc., but that's on TOP of their english, history, math, etc.

The challenge with JUCO and classes comes as has been stated by kjktj and Texan. If a player spends more than two years at a JUCO, he can be in a tough situation because the JUCO may not offer the higher level courses he would need to be taking as a junior.

Also, my son was recruited by several JUCOs and each and every coach was hands on in the players scheduling... very aware of what they needed to transfer on to a four year program.

I don't mean to slam JUCOs in way, shape or form. What I was trying to say is that the player and his parents need to be VERY aware of what the transfer requirements are for moving on to a 4 yr. program.

My concern is more for the player who goes just to play baseball and thinks his PE and baseball credits are going to transfer.

In FL, a similiar situation to TX, the top baseball JuCo's are stocked with DFE players; the competition and level of ball played is high. Keep in mind that your son will be draft eligible every year if he attends a JuCo first.

A little research (for example, with your state university) and time spent with the academic advisor at the JuCo will help assure that he takes the appropriate classes to transfer.

Smaller class size at a JuCo might also answer the concern about taking an extra semester to 'bolster his grades'.

JC is definitly a good way to go. There are several good JC that offer transferable courses. As mentioned you have to make intelligent choices based on your future goals. Since you can only play 4 years out of 5 after you start thye clock ticking you had better make good choices.
Most 4 year schools recruit JC players heavily as they have a track record of high level ball. Can be the best of both worlds if done properly.
I know several JC players at very good 4 year schools like Arizona State (Midland JC) Coastal carolina (Gulf Coast JC)and many others.

PFB all of my son's friends who play for Canisius,Buffalo and Niagara in the MAC all got tons of innings . Mostly pitchers who got 50-60 innings in their Freshman year. That was one of the selling points they used to try to get us to go there.
Everyone has different objectives. One JC told us they were a baseball factory and had been to the D1 JC WS 4 years in a row. They also had transferable academic corses but were open about their goals in BB. It was not what my son was looking for so we turned the offer down. Not because it was a JC though.

Bobblehead,

We were strongly considering some JUCO programs for my son, but admittedly, he was not the strongest student and we knew without a tough guiding hand, he would have played 2 years and had Basketweaving as a major and then been either drafted or stuck. Now, he's playing in a good conference AND should have his degree in 4 years.

quote:

he would have played 2 years and had Basketweaving as a major and then been either drafted or stuck.

pfbear - Your statement really does a disservice to JUCOs. They play a very important role in education with kids graduating every year with associate degrees entering the work force and four year institutions with legitimate degrees and educations. I think you're painting with a very broad brush that just isn't true.

Buffalo is a beautiful school and my son had talked to the coaches at a seminar but he is cold weather adverse.
I have a friend who is a LHP that went JC in NJ. Always had academic issues and even suspended once for behavioral problems. He graduated last year is is now at Benedictine College in Kansas. Thge JC made sure he took the right courses and that he stayed up on his work. You may have a poor impression of JCs. I can assure you it is inaccurate. One of my son's teammates at CSU attended a JC in Florida and is a top student making the presidents honor role in the big South Conference. Halp the team are JC transfers and several are on the honor role.
Years ago even the 4 yr schools were full of athlete friendly courses like basket weaving but that isn't the case anymore. When I played football I had a full ride to a mojor D1 school and didn't go because if the image of the NCAA schools and stayed here . Things have changed to protect the athletes from being shuffled through without a good education.
We had several guys on my son's elite teams that weren't academic types that JC was a great alternative and they were taking trade related courses. That also was available at a JC. These guys had no intention of going to an academic JC or a 4 year school.

Laf that is to the point. I had no problem looking at JC. Several were on our list.

My son attended a JUCO for 2 years, then transferred to a 4-year D1. His JUCO courses were legit (accounting, ethics, marketing, etc.) BUT, not all 4-year schools accept all credits, and not all programs use all credits.

We had a real problem because my son changed majors while at the JUCO, so he's got credits that may or may not meet eligibility requirements, depending on the school and the degree program!

NCAA rules make it very difficult for the student athlete to change majors. As a matter of fact, NCAA rules seem to make everything difficult for everybody.

lafmom,

I am not trying to do that at all. I graduated from a CC before going onto a 4 year school, so I would never talk down about them. I was just trying-unsuccessfully I guess- to state that it is not as easy to go to a JUCO for baseball and then automatically transfer to a 4 year institution and be eligible to play. I know if my son had done it, he would never have been disciplined enough to keep up the schoolwork needed for transfer. He would have taken all PE and "gimme" classes that would have left him stranded after 2 years.

Lots of schools-both 2 and 4 year have excellent programs for their athletes. But there are also those out there that want the player to play (insert sport here)and academically he's somewhat on his own as long he/she remains eligible to play.

So how did he qualify for UB if he was not a reasonable student ?
I is true that you have to be very careful that you can transfer your courses but even 4 yr programs don't always accept other 4 yr schools as transferable.
I will probably see your son this spring as I attend lots of Canisius, Niagar and UB games. I noticed UB only has 1 or 2 Canadians this year. The old coach was from NF Canada so they were heavily stacked before.

Funny story. When his HS forwarded all the paperwork to UB, they did not process him as an athlete and he actually got denied admission. A quick call to the coach and his acceptance letter came in the mail 2 days later.

His grades were mid 80's in HS and he was around a 1050 SAT, but he never did the admissions essay, so we think that's maybe what happened.

We have a couple canadiens this year, butI would guess the freshman will get redshirted. We also picked up a grad student who was one of Niagara's weekend starters last year so that should help quite a bit as well.

That is why student athletes should always go through the coach when applying.

pfbear - I think I understand more clearly what you're saying. Self-discipline is required in making those class choices.... as Bobblehead said, in a 2 year program or 4 year program.

Bobblehead - My son's school has several Canadian players. He told me last night that they're getting him hooked on hockey! He began talking about players including the next Wayne Gretzky, but of course I can't remember the names! Not many KY boys that follow ice hockey!!

pfbear,
you ARE specifically stating that JUCO's are for Dumb players. If you don't believe it, read what you have wrote. By the way, baseball is a credit that transfers to a four year college as a P.E. elective and maybe even for that "basketweaving degree." You have made absolutely no sense in your discussion. Just because a kid does not have a 30 on his ACT does not mean he can't go to a JUCO and take classes that transfer. Anything with a 1 in front of the course number is transferable at a JUCO institution. Lafmom is absolutely correct in her statements. JUCO's are important to many kids and more important to the FOUR YEAR SCHOOL as well. 4 year schools look for JUCO kids to help immediately on the field. By the way, the percentage works as follows. If a student were at a JUCO for three years, if the student has six full time enrollment semesters, he has to meet 60% of his degree at the four year institution he is transferring to.

Laf we are a hockey nation. The player is Syd Crosby and he is currently the top poins guy
in the NHL in his 1st year. Gretz was also a great ball player and his dad owned a team called the Brantford Red Sox. This is a team full of college and ex pro guys.Ocassionally Gretz would show up and watch a game.
I loved playing hockey but my son hever took to it.
I see you have some Canadians on the roster. Only one is close to where I live. Mostly guys from out west and a couple from the east.

Bobblehead - Not to hijack this thread BUT
here's the link to son's school's roster. They use a separate site for the baseball stuff and the info on the school site still isn't updated.

http://www.ballcharts.com/teams/roster.php?team=cutigers

Their starting catcher, #1 pitcher and top OF are all from Canada. One of our assistants is from Canada and has been able to obviously recruit some excellent kids from there.

Sportsbuff,

You are way wrong here. I never said anything about anyone being dumb or any reference to intelligence. All I ever said was that players that go to JUCOs and plan on transferring need to be disciplined when selecting classes and realize that not all grades will transfer. They need to be aware of the eligibilty requirements upon entering the 4 Yr. institution. BTW, the basketweaving reference was towards my own son.

Many players and parents coming out of HS just figure that the kid will go JUCO for two years and then transfer. It's not that easy if they aren't aware of what they need to do to transfer. If the kid takes all PE credits and minimal classroom credits, he's going to be seriously behind the eight ball when he applies to a 4 Yr. school unless he plans on getting a degree in PE or some similar field.

I agree that JUCOs serve their purpose both academically and athletically (heck, I graduated from one!!!!), but I also guarantee you that many coaches at 4 Yr. schools have fallen in love with JUCO players only to find out they are not eligible. It happened up here rather famously at St. Bonaventure University and their basketball program a couple of years ago. The kid had a welding certificate, was allowed entrance, and it was later ruled he was ineligible to play D-1 basketball. I believe the team had to fofeit all their games he played in and I know the coach was let go.

If you actually read my posts, you would see that is what I am saying. Heck, my son has a hard time spelling ACT much less scoring a 30 on it.

PFBear,

I don't know where Sportsbuff is coming from...certainly, you didn't say JUCOs were for "dumb players," "specifically," or otherwise.

Your advice to be disciplined and aware of transferability requirments was right on the $$. No one on this thread disputes the importance the role JUCOs serve, academically OR athletically. However, there are certainly ex-ballplayer/athletes who attended a JUCO because they expected it to be easy and/or wanted to be draft eligible in two years, and did the minimal amount to stay on the team. It's a problem not confined to baseball: Locally, a JUCO All-American in another sport won't be immediately advancing to a four-year school because not enough of his classes would transfer.

It's a given: If one doesn't "take care of business" at a JUCO, one may not be able to transfer, but one can flunk out of a four-year school, too. Suggesting that one be "disciplined" and "aware" would seem to be good advice for anybody.

Speaking as one whose son went to a Div. I JUCO then transferred to a Div I 4-year, there's a little truth in everything that has been said. At our particular JUCO, where lots of ballplayers went because they couldn't academically qualify for a DI out of high school, and/or they fully expected to be drafted after one or two years anyway (my son wasn't in either category, by the way), the missing element seemed to be good academic counseling. They emphasized keeping players eligible rather than making sure they were in a position to transfer after 2 years. If we (my son and us) hadn't paid real close attention to the requirements (and that meant looking ahead to the schools he might be interested in transferring to and checking their general ed requirements), he would have had a much rougher time at the end of his two years. As it turned out, most of his teammates weren't drafted out of the JUCO, and ended up having only NAIA schools as their options. Now, there are plenty of good NAIA schools out there, but it definitely limited their opportunities. They had major DI programs looking at them, but they couldn't attend because they didn't have the number of credits or the appropriate coursework.

I'm proud to report that my son will be graduating this May from a Div I 4-year, "on time," even after transferring from a JUCO and with playing baseball for 4 years. It wasn't easy, and we're extremely proud of him for the discipline it required for him to pull that off.

lhpx2-

Thank you, thank you, thank you. You made my point much better than I ever could have.

And hearty congratulations to both you and your son!!!

quote:

Originally posted by lhpx2:
If we (my son and us) hadn't paid real close attention to the requirements (and that meant looking ahead to the schools he might be interested in transferring to and checking their general ed requirements), he would have had a much rougher time at the end of his two years.

And there is the key for ANYONE who will be transferring from ANY school to another, whether for athletics or any other reason.

If there are questions addressed to the four year school, get the answers in writing. Keep good documentation. If you rely on a catalogue for answers, keep it around. If you use a web page, print it out & make sure it is dated. You may need the paper trail.


And congrats to your son, lhp.