Do you absolutely have to sit out a year after you transfer to another 4 year school?
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For starters... from which division to which division?
It depends. Rick at Informed Athlete is the transfer guru. He posts and advertises here. Reach out to him and you'll get your answer...after you provide a lot more information. :-)
MidAtlanticDad posted:For starters... from which division to which division?
NAIA to D1 and another player is planning to transfer from D2 to D1
As a general rule, anyone transferring into a D1 school from another four-year school will have to spend a year in residence before being eligible to play baseball. Doesn't matter if they're coming from NAIA, D1, D2, or D3.
Some exceptions for legit hardships, but it's a hard rule to get around.
Swampboy posted:As a general rule, anyone transferring into a D1 school from another four-year school will have to spend a year in residence before being eligible to play baseball. Doesn't matter if they're coming from NAIA, D1, D2, or D3.
Some exceptions for legit hardships, but it's a hard rule to get around.
Why would you have to spend a year in residence? Also, if you finish out the academic year, do you no longer need permission to contact other schools from your current coach? Because if you finished out the academic year, you would've fulfilled the NLI?
Rules are rules.....
You would need to sit....and you have to be enrolled at the school you're going to play at during the year you're sitting out.
Read - http://www.ncaapublications.co...year-transfers.aspx?
Call - NCAA at 317-917-6008, Monday through Friday from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. Eastern time
Swampboy posted:As a general rule, anyone transferring into a D1 school from another four-year school will have to spend a year in residence before being eligible to play baseball. Doesn't matter if they're coming from NAIA, D1, D2, or D3.
Some exceptions for legit hardships, but it's a hard rule to get around.
Must be ways around it though. Kid from my son's D3 transferred to Pac 12 D1. Didn't sit out the year. Not sure what "hardship" was involved. From what I gathered, he just wanted a more prestigious degree than he would otherwise have gotten.
But I think I read somewhere that if the new school offers a major not offered at your old school even that might be enough of a "hardship" to avoid having to sit out.
baseballfanatic1 posted:Swampboy posted:As a general rule, anyone transferring into a D1 school from another four-year school will have to spend a year in residence before being eligible to play baseball. Doesn't matter if they're coming from NAIA, D1, D2, or D3.
Some exceptions for legit hardships, but it's a hard rule to get around.
Why would you have to spend a year in residence? Also, if you finish out the academic year, do you no longer need permission to contact other schools from your current coach? Because if you finished out the academic year, you would've fulfilled the NLI?
I think the NCAA doesn't want to do anything to encourage student athletes to move around, in search of a better deal or situation. It doesn't sit well with their (outmoded and oppressive) ideal of "amateurism."
That's my guess of what is supposed to justify the transfer rules. It's not just about coaches not being able to poach players from each other. It's also about incentivizing players directly.
If you finish out the academic year, under your NLI. Would you not need permission to contact other schools?
Baseballfanatic1, save yourself time & energy asking questions on the open board. Rick from informed athlete will be a ble to answer your questions with authority. Everyone else, while meaning well, is only opinions.
SluggerDad posted:Swampboy posted:As a general rule, anyone transferring into a D1 school from another four-year school will have to spend a year in residence before being eligible to play baseball. Doesn't matter if they're coming from NAIA, D1, D2, or D3.
Some exceptions for legit hardships, but it's a hard rule to get around.
Must be ways around it though. Kid from my son's D3 transferred to Pac 12 D1. Didn't sit out the year. Not sure what "hardship" was involved. From what I gathered, he just wanted a more prestigious degree than he would otherwise have gotten.
But I think I read somewhere that if the new school offers a major not offered at your old school even that might be enough of a "hardship" to avoid having to sit out.
Totally from what I have read on this board and understand....since a player was going D3 to D1, he was not receiving any athletic money, and no NLI, so he could transfer without sitting out a year. It doesn't happen often transferring D3 to D1, however.
Also, I think if you are not receiving any money from a D1, such as a walkon, you can transfer without sitting a year. Not completely sure on this, but I have seen it done....but not privy to all the circumstances.
Player on my son's college team came from another D1 and had to sit out last year. He played in the fall, but not during the season, and played again this summer in a summer collegiate league. We will be welcoming him with open arms in the spring
Rick? You out there?
You can not transfer from D3 to D1 without sitting out unless there are some special circumstances. As Fenway pointed out, when in doubt call the NCAA. They were very helpful when I talked to them some time ago about a specific question I had.
Rick is indeed the current expert. The rest of us may have stayed at a holiday in last night, but Oh well. If an athlete can prove he was not recruited by his precious school he does not have to sit out either. But if he received a call from a coach or had a visit to the school, he was probably recruited.
I believe Walk On's have to sit too. (If they were a recruited athlete.) 100 % ridiculous IMHO. If a school is willing to give the athlete money, and the current school is not, he/she should be allowed to leave without penalty.
I'm second to none in my regard for Rick, but we are not entirely helpless without him. The NCAA Transfer Guide is not a classified document. We can read it for ourselves.
The exceptions are very narrow. If you're transferring into a D1 baseball program from a 4-year school, you'll have to sit out a year unless: 1) the school you left discontinued its baseball program, 2) you've never been recruited by your new school, you haven't received an athletic scholarship, and you haven't practiced more than two weeks or played in intercollegiate competition at your old school, or 3) you didn't practice more than two weeks or play for two years before your transfer.
That's it. That's the list of exceptions for 4-4 transfers having to sit out after transferring into a D1 baseball program.
Anything else requires a waiver, which is "an action that sets aside an NCAA rule because a specific, extraordinary circumstance prevents you from meeting the rule." From the cases I've seen, they have to be pretty serious: e.g., player's father died and mom was ill and player needed to transfer to school in home town.
Regarding the situations SluggerDad described: 1) Waivers are sometimes granted to players who graduate with remaining eligibility and enter graduate programs not offered at their first school. But it's not an automatic exception. 2) Wanting a more prestigious degree is not a relevant consideration.
Regarding permission to contact rules asked about by BaseballFanatic1: They are in the linked document. Completing the year you promised in your NLI doesn't set aside the rule for you. If you transfer from an NCAA or NAIA school to a D1 baseball program, you will need permission to contact before the coaches at the new school can discuss a transfer with you. If you transfer without permission, you have to wait a year before you can receive an athletic scholarship.
Read the book, folks. Rick has a business to run. He can't be there for you all the time.
And just to add. D3 has self release. You do not need permission from your current school. There is a form to fill out.
Swampboy posted:I'm second to none in my regard for Rick, but we are not entirely helpless without him. The NCAA Transfer Guide is not a classified document. We can read it for ourselves.
The exceptions are very narrow. If you're transferring into a D1 baseball program from a 4-year school, you'll have to sit out a year unless: 1) the school you left discontinued its baseball program, 2) you've never been recruited by your new school, you haven't received an athletic scholarship, and you haven't practiced more than two weeks or played in intercollegiate competition at your old school, or 3) you didn't practice more than two weeks or play for two years before your transfer.
That's it. That's the list of exceptions for 4-4 transfers having to sit out after transferring into a D1 baseball program.
Anything else requires a waiver, which is "an action that sets aside an NCAA rule because a specific, extraordinary circumstance prevents you from meeting the rule." From the cases I've seen, they have to be pretty serious: e.g., player's father died and mom was ill and player needed to transfer to school in home town.
Regarding the situations SluggerDad described: 1) Waivers are sometimes granted to players who graduate with remaining eligibility and enter graduate programs not offered at their first school. But it's not an automatic exception. 2) Wanting a more prestigious degree is not a relevant consideration.
Regarding permission to contact rules asked about by BaseballFanatic1: They are in the linked document. Completing the year you promised in your NLI doesn't set aside the rule for you. If you transfer from an NCAA or NAIA school to a D1 baseball program, you will need permission to contact before the coaches at the new school can discuss a transfer with you. If you transfer without permission, you have to wait a year before you can receive an athletic scholarship.
Read the book, folks. Rick has a business to run. He can't be there for you all the time.
Read a response from the aforementioned Rick. You don't have to sit out for a year in transferring from D3 or D2 to D1 if you were not a recruited athlete. I think that's the key for the player from my son's school.
Formally most D3 atheletes probably don't count as recruited. (No scholarship, no official visits in the sense of a visit paid for by the U.)
A quote from his webpage
A prospect is considered a recruited athlete if the college takes one of the following actions:If they provide the prospect with an official visit.
If they have an off-campus contact with the prospect or the prospect’s parents or legal guardians.
If they offer the prospect a National Letter of Intent or an athletic scholarship agreement.
If they initiate a telephone conversation with the prospect or his parents or legal guardians more than one time.
Ironically, a coach can have frequent e-mail conversations with a prospect but that athlete will still not be defined as a recruited athlete if the coach does not use any of the four actions above to encourage the prospect to attend the college and join their athletic program.
A link Rick's answer on an earlier thread.
Actually Sluggerdad, based on the criteria listed probably every player on my son's former D3 team would be considered a recruited athlete.
Good stuff Swamp.
BOF posted:Actually Sluggerdad, based on the criteria listed probably every player on my son's former D3 team would be considered a recruited athlete.
Good stuff Swamp.
How so? Because the school had the money to actually pay for visits for all recruits? Ours didn't and doesn't. Wonder how many D3's have the budget for that?
Don't get me wrong my son's school invites LOTS of prospects to visit. But I gather that for the most part they have to pay for transportation and as for lodging they hook them up with students. One of my son's duties last year was to host recruits. Not sure being fed while your on campus is enough to make it official in the intended sense. If that's all it takes, then the school gets off pretty cheap in "recruiting" an athlete.
Or was it because coach had off site contact with players or initiated more than one phone call?
We had a lot of contact with coach. He saw the kid play at AZ Senior classic. But although I was sitting right next to him, when he did, we actually didn't talk. I tried to avoid making contact, actually. He did follow up with email. In fact, I think all contact was via email -- though don't hold me to that, since I'm getting older every day. Even when they wanted to make sure everything was getting through admissions on time and in good order, it was all done via email.
Interesting. Now that I think about it all of the D3 coaches who have contacted my son started with email and didn't go to phone or text until later, while the D1 coaches started with a phone call. So it seems like they might be avoiding using the phone to initiate contact. But I would think that many if not most D3 recruits who end up going to a particular school would get a phone call at some point. And anyway, why would coaches be motivated to act in such a way as to give freedom to their athletes down the road?
JCG posted:Interesting. Now that I think about it all of the D3 coaches who have contacted my son started with email and didn't go to phone or text until later, while the D1 coaches started with a phone call. So it seems like they might be avoiding using the phone to initiate contact. But I would think that many if not most D3 recruits who end up going to a particular school would get a phone call at some point. And anyway, why would coaches be motivated to act in such a way as to give freedom to their athletes down the road?
Wonder if texting counts as a "phone conversation" for the purposes of determining whether a kid counts as a recruited athlete under NCAA rules.
With Snapchat, Periscope, FaceTime, Skype etc. the terminology they use is obsolete.
Texting doesn't count as a phone conversation. So, (referencing to the info that SLUGGERDAD copied from our website), as crazy as it is, a coach could send many text messages to a prospect or could send them e-mails every day, but that would not classify the prospect as "recruited", even though they become "recruited" if a coach makes more than ONE recruiting call to the prospect or his parents/guardians.
Also, the D3 self-release will only work for an athlete transferring from one D3 to another D3. And, even though there is a box on the form that can be checked if the prospect wants the contact with the new D3 to be "confidential", don't count on that being the case. We all know how often college coaches are talking to each other.
I truly appreciate all the kind remarks about my expertise and our services. As Swampboy stated, I can't be on here all the time, but you can always send an e-mail to rick@informedathlete.com if there's a thread I should be commenting on.
As always Rick your information is greatly appreciated here. SLUGGERDAD, since my son's old program recruits nationally I am pretty sure every prospect had more than one telephone conversation with the coaching staff or someone else in the department, as well as there is a very good chance there was some sort of conversation at an event. They do not pay for recruiting visits other than picking up dinners and misc stuff. I would think that for the top highly ranked National programs at any level this would be the case. Regardless my son's coach was so player positive, if there was some reason that a player did not want to be there he would HELP them find a spot elsewhere, which I know he has done in several cases. It's not an accident their program is so successful as even kids who don't play a lot love the guy. As always these discussions are very informative to people coming to the website.
Seems to me that if a D3 player was smart, he'd avoid the "recruited athlete label" like the plague, all things being equal, especially if he wanted to just leave open the possibility of transferring some day. I mean the seemingly insignificant difference between "initiating a phone call" and getting an email that says "feel free to call me" -- assuming that such an email doesn't itself count as "initiating" a phone call -- might make a huge difference down the line. It could determine whether, once you decide to try and transfer, you'll be able to step on the field and compete right away or will have to wait a year.
These regulations, at least as applied to D3, whether are no athletic scholarships involved, make hardly any sense.
Maybe I'm off base here, but if you ask me, going into a situation with plans to not stay there is a recipe for disaster. If you think you may leave, you shouldn't go to that school in the first place. It's obviously not a good fit.
Anyone making a decision to go to a particular school and a particular baseball program should feel totally confident that they will be there all 4 years. Anything short of that is the first sign you're not at the right place...
I don't think anybody goes to school planning to transfer. But then nobody gets married thinking they will divorce either. But hey, stuff happens. Just as there are many unanticipated divorces, so there are many unanticipated transfers.
A young man would have to know not to pick up the phone when that number appears. My son had so many calls back in 2010, Many coaches were calling weekly. Coaches are smart enough to know this rule. If they really want a player they are most likely to be calling more than once. Most will call weekly.
Rick thank for that info on the self release. Good to know it only applies to D3 to D3 transfers. I can always count on you for accurate advice. There is another member who still visits but I do not think he posts anymore. 3fingerGlove used to also be a font of knowledge when it came to NCAA rules and regs.
Thanks all.
I've been away for a while, so these comments may be a little late, but:
1. In general, I agree with SluggerDad in terms of what's fair, what's not fair, and what the rules ought to be. Unfortunately, "fair" and "NCAA rules" aren't always connected by linking verbs.
2. Regarding SluggerDad's proposed strategy of avoiding the "recruited athlete" label at one's D3 , it's not sufficient unless you decide to transfer before you start practicing with the team. Once you practice for two weeks or play, you're in the same boat as a recruited athlete.
3. The D3-D1 transfer issue seldom comes up because most transfers are rides on the down escalator taken by players leaving schools where they didn't find playing time and seeking schools where they might find it: from major conference D1 to mid major or lower tier D1; from D1 to JUCO; from D1 to D2. Except for JUCO players who already demonstrated D1 tools, you don't see many players move up in division or category when they transfer. I looked at the rosters from every school in my son's D1 conference and found only one D3-D1 transfer. That player played two years at a D3 and did very well, then he transferred to a D1, sat out a year, and played in his fourth year of college as a redshirt junior.
Point 2 in Swampboy's post above is not the only option for a player transferring from D3 to D1 to be immediately eligible. That is one transfer exception that can be used, but not the only one.
