UNC Carolina Camps Nov 11 - 12

My son received a solicitation for a camp opportunity at UNC next month.  Of course, he'd be interested in playing for the Heels, and getting an opportunity to tour the facilities, meet with coaches, etc would be a positive experience.  The 2 day event is limited to 48 kids.  We all get a ton of these invites and solicitations, but this one begins a little different:  

"You have been identified as having the potential to play college baseball by our staff here at UNC. We would like to extend an invitation to attend one of our 2017 UNC Elite Prospect Camps this coming fall"

Anyone ever attend this camp?  For the camp price, it's worth the experience in my opinion, I'd just like to temper the boy's expectations prior to arriving.  I'll give a little bio below: 

2019, plays high level travel ball and at a high level HS program in GA. Near the top of the players but not as consistent as the studs.  4.0gpa, National Honor Society, etc. 

60y - 6.83, Inf velo: 83mph, Exit Velo 80mph off tee (PG Showcase last year), Trackman exit velo in game highest 90mph wood bat (this fall).  16 months ago at the academic showcase (end of freshman year) he was rated 7.5 by PG. 

The catch is he's still growing.  I'm 6-1, he's barely 5-10 150lbs, but has bigger hands, feet and longer arm than me at 16y 6mo.

 

I clicked on registration and it's an "ABC Sports Registration".   Here's all the fine print:

Players Receive
– Individually named and numbered Nike Dri-Fit Carolina Baseball Shirt
– Individually named and numbered locker with nametag in UNC Baseball locker room
– Advanced hitting, pitching, throwing, infield, outfield and catching instruction
– All-around hand-written evaluation detailing all skills demonstrated at camp
– Access to entire UNC Baseball Facility: Indoor cages, weight room, locker room, players’ lounge, playing field.
– Opportunity to meet UNC Baseball Coaching Staff
– Recruiting session for parents by Head Coach Mike Fox
– Lunch provided on Saturday

– Campus Tour

Estimated Saturday Schedule (8:30 am to 5:00 pm)
08:00 am. – Registration begins
09:00 am. – Run 60 yard dash
09:50 am. – Pro-Style Workout at positions (Primary & Secondary)
10:30 am. – Fundamental Drills and Position Instruction
11:00 am. – Hitting Stations begin
12:00 pm. – Lunch (Provided by UNC)
12:30 pm. – Live games begin
05:00 pm. – Saturday conclusion 

Estimated Sunday Schedule (9:00 am to 1:00 pm)
9:00 am – First two teams playing arrive
9:30 am – Game #1 begins 
11:00 am – Second two teams playing arrive
11:15 am – Game #1 conclusion / Game #2 begins
1:00 pm – Camp conclusion
*Note: No lunch provided Sunday 

Camper to Staff Ratio
We make every effort to have an excellent counselor to camper ratio. This ensures quality instruction and individual attention. UNC Elite Prospect Camps are limited to only 48 players per camp. Coaches include UNC coaches and former or current Tar Heels.

Gear: Each camper receives an individually numbered Nike Dri-Fit camp shirt. Official Carolina Baseball game hats and various other Nike baseball items may be purchased during registration and at other times during camp from our camp store.

Quality Facilities: Carolina Baseball Camps are held at Bryson Field at Boshamer Stadium, which is located in the heart of the campus of The University of North Carolina.

Written Assessment
Campers attending the Elite Prospect Camp will receive a standard written assessment from his assigned coach. Our staff does not “grade” the camper, but critiques the camper on his abilities and tries to make suggestions on how to improve. UNC coaches do not complete these evaluations.

Disclaimer
Carolina Baseball Camps are privately owned and operated and not affiliated with the University of North Carolina. All of UNC baseball camps are committed to following and abiding by all NCAA rules, policies and regulations. All Carolina Baseball Camps or clinics are open to any and all entrants (limited only by number, age, grade level and/or gender).

Original Post

"You have been identified as having the potential to play college baseball by our staff here at UNC. We would like to extend an invitation to attend one of our 2017 UNC Elite Prospect Camps this coming fall"

Suggest you have your son call the RC to learn more, express interest in the program, and (this is important) find out how they learned about him. That last one will let you know what you want to know.

Prep him before calling. Then, of course, keep calling until he reaches him.

7.5 isn't usually a "you are headed to the ACC" type of grade, although of course sometimes Perfect Game gets it wrong, and more frequently players improve (and improve their PG grades) as they get older.

Having said that, it looks like a super fun experience, that camp.  My Kid, for one, would be thrilled to attend.

Ha, I appreciate the honesty and those never missing the opportunity to get in a jab.  I do agree a 7.5 is far from ACC, or anything more than an end of the bench walk on at the lowest D1 programs.  A 7.5 may get a kid an interview to be team manager at UNC.  

We may do it as an experience, bonding trip, photo opp.  However I was hoping for a group of quality kids there for the challenge.  A game of 7.5s vs 7s would be a nightmare to sit through. 

 

We have had first hand experience with a camp that was truly invite only with cap of 24 players. They did not send out an email but made a call. They have to list the camp but did not advertise or send out emails. This allowed them to get the 24 they wanted to attend. Even in that type of situation, the HC was honest and informed players/parents that maybe 1-2 would end up receiving an offer. On flip side, my son has received numerous college camp invites that were obviously sent out as part of mass email campaign and some that sounded similar to UNC camp invite. As 3and2 stated, it sounds like a great camp and if your son performs well, it might lead to something more.

teddy9 posted:

...  For the camp price, it's worth the experience in my opinion, I'd just like to temper the boy's expectations prior to arriving. ...

Looks like he has good speed, great grades and will have opportunities.  It seems you are aware at least to a good extent, he is not yet a player on the radar of top major D1 programs like UNC and this appears to be the typical camp invite.   That said, I assume he has developed quite a bit since his PG evaluation 16 months ago, so I cannot accurately factor that in with the information provided.

I will restate some of the basics in case you are not fully aware of some...

All colleges will run these types of camps to bring in money to the program and to the assistant coaches.  Occasionally, they will have dialog with a player they are recruiting and ask them to attend one of these camps as a follow-up and possibly a campus visit.  This invitation is not that.  The likelihood of another camper garnering serious consideration at a school like this is very slim.

These Power 5 schools only recruit the studs.

Recruiting for schools of this stature are pretty much done for 2019's.  Your son will need to start taking that into consideration as he formulates his recruiting plan.

If your son wants to go for the experience and to check out the campus and facilities and it is within budget, even though not necessarily targeting the right school from a current baseball fit, go and have a blast.  Be aware that there is a high likelihood that most of the instruction will come from a volunteer coach level or similar as opposed to the HC or top assistant.  This can vary.

I hope this helps with your efforts to temper expectations.  

PS - haha, just realized the dates.  Well, maybe it will help another prospective camper for another event another time 

cabbagedad posted:
teddy9 posted:

...  For the camp price, it's worth the experience in my opinion, I'd just like to temper the boy's expectations prior to arriving. ...

Recruiting for schools of this stature are pretty much done for 2019's.  Your son will need to start taking that into consideration as he formulates his recruiting plan.

 

Why is this such a common statement on hsbaseballweb? Is it possible that some schools are done...maybe...but many are not. UNC is a great example. I get that PG is not always 100% accurate but Power 5 schools seem to be the most accurate. Using UNC as an example; they only have 8 commits for the class of 2019. When you look at their 2018 commits, they have 18. I 100% understand that you need to have the talent and in most cases the skills to play at that level, but for those that do, IMO it is misleading to make these type of blanket statements. Not attacking...big fan of your posts...just don't understand why I see this so often.

coachld posted:
cabbagedad posted:
teddy9 posted:

...  For the camp price, it's worth the experience in my opinion, I'd just like to temper the boy's expectations prior to arriving. ...

Recruiting for schools of this stature are pretty much done for 2019's.  Your son will need to start taking that into consideration as he formulates his recruiting plan.

 

Why is this such a common statement on hsbaseballweb? Is it possible that some schools are done...maybe...but many are not. UNC is a great example. 

I have no experience on when various levels of schools finish with a class, but I agree with coachld that I often see people on this site talking about 2018s are done, 2019s are close to done, etc. I think cabbagedad's comment is a little more on target just because he confines it to "schools of this stature."

My assumption is that out of the 300 or so D1 programs in the country there are still several still seeking players for the 2018 class or the 2019 class. They just are schools of a lower stature, looking for players of that same stature.

So now there are two kinds of camps. The ones that are serious recruiting opportunities for your son, and the ones that leave him (and you) going — wow. That was cool.

No problem and I hear ya Coach... I'm actually usually more on your side of the argument. 

There are certainly exceptions and I think every school has some fluidity.  I also think most schools end up bringing in one or two (or more) much later than the current perceived schedule.  But when it comes to advising someone in the middle of formulating a recruiting plan, I lean toward nudging them in the direction of realistic and attainable.  Also, you lose a lot of leverage (and $$) if you are late on the sliding scale.  Even if a P5 school has only 8 2019 commits listed at this point, I would wager that they are awaiting final word and/or are quite far down the road on securing most of the others they hope to have committed from that class at this point. 

As much as I don't like it, that is more the norm than not these days.  My two most recent D1 commits (from our HS) signed early junior year but that was after fairly lengthy courting and communication.  And these aren't top tier P5's.  We do also have an exception who didn't sign until AFTER SENIOR YEAR and was quite a success story after that.  I love it, but I wouldn't recommend it as the best recruiting plan path.

I totally confess to slanting my talking points to what my gut tells me will best help a particular poster (within the confines of what I consider to be generally true).

 PS - typing same time as Iowamom... what she said too 

Iowamom23 posted:
coachld posted:
cabbagedad posted:
teddy9 posted:

...  For the camp price, it's worth the experience in my opinion, I'd just like to temper the boy's expectations prior to arriving. ...

Recruiting for schools of this stature are pretty much done for 2019's.  Your son will need to start taking that into consideration as he formulates his recruiting plan.

 

Why is this such a common statement on hsbaseballweb? Is it possible that some schools are done...maybe...but many are not. UNC is a great example. 

I have no experience on when various levels of schools finish with a class, but I agree with coachld that I often see people on this site talking about 2018s are done, 2019s are close to done, etc. I think cabbagedad's comment is a little more on target just because he confines it to "schools of this stature."

My assumption is that out of the 300 or so D1 programs in the country there are still several still seeking players for the 2018 class or the 2019 class. They just are schools of a lower stature, looking for players of that same stature.

So now there are two kinds of camps. The ones that are serious recruiting opportunities for your son, and the ones that leave him (and you) going — wow. That was cool.

Maybe for 2018 but not for 2019.

Just a representative sample of 2019 commits listed on PG:

  • UNC: 8
  • UCLA: 6
  • Stanford: 6
  • UC Santa Barbara: 5
  • Arizona State: 4
  • Baylor: 4
  • Iowa: 4
  • Dallas Baptist: 3
  • Houston: 3
  • Fullerton: 2
  • Long Beach State: 3
  • Santa Clara: 1
  • Navy: 1
  • Yale: 0

Etc., etc. Some of these might be schools of lower stature but some most assuredly are not. If we consider the average recruiting class as "done" at 10 or more players, then fewer than 10% of D1 schools are done with their 2019 class. OTOH, major caveat: they are talking with many more than those who have committed, so if there is no conversation, that is different.

Edited to add: echoing Cabbage's point about lengthy courtships.

Good points, thanks for taking the time guys.  I think if we attend, it will be a “damn that was cool” experience. 

Interesting to see some of those school listed with very few 2019s, is it possible those school have verbal committs that just are not in the PG database? When I was home (New England) a couple weeks ago, me and some buddies were living the glory days and they talked up local area HS kids who’ve got offers etc. When I searched PG many had no PG profile, but there is searchable news articles and web info. 

“””Be aware that there is a high likelihood that most of the instruction will come from a volunteer coach level or similar as opposed to the HC or top assistant.””””

Above is a great point and something I’d like to avoid, even for the couple hundred $ fee.  The “invite” states a parent meeting on recruiting process, etc., to be given by the UNC head coach, I was hoping if he was around he also would provide direction to the boys. I rather have the mascot provide the parent talk and let the HC coach a little.  It states coaching  to be  done by coaching staff and / or current and former Tar Heels.  

Again, not trying to make this something more than the it is, but if we participate and Georgia Dugout Club Showcase type evaluators are directing things, it may burn a bit. 

Maybe it can be “man that was cool, except for the volunteer coaching” type trip. 

teddy9 posted:

Good points, thanks for taking the time guys.  I think if we attend, it will be a “damn that was cool” experience. 

Interesting to see some of those school listed with very few 2019s, is it possible those school have verbal committs that just are not in the PG database? When I was home (New England) a couple weeks ago, me and some buddies were living the glory days and they talked up local area HS kids who’ve got offers etc. When I searched PG many had no PG profile, but there is searchable news articles and web info. 

Some. I'd guess most commits are in PG. But not all. Although with twitter nowadays it usually gets tweeted out by someone (travel program, for example) so the news usually gets out.

teddy9 posted:

“””Be aware that there is a high likelihood that most of the instruction will come from a volunteer coach level or similar as opposed to the HC or top assistant.””””

Above is a great point and something I’d like to avoid, even for the couple hundred $ fee.  The “invite” states a parent meeting on recruiting process, etc., to be given by the UNC head coach, I was hoping if he was around he also would provide direction to the boys. I rather have the mascot provide the parent talk and let the HC coach a little.  It states coaching  to be  done by coaching staff and / or current and former Tar Heels.  

Again, not trying to make this something more than the it is, but if we participate and Georgia Dugout Club Showcase type evaluators are directing things, it may burn a bit. 

Maybe it can be “man that was cool, except for the volunteer coaching” type trip. 

Yes, and to clarify, I meant one of the actual coaches on staff but one of the lower level volunteer coaches or grad assistants, usually just a year or two out of the program.  This is pretty typical.  Sometimes, you will get other local small school college coaches or JC coaches helping as well, depending on the size of the camp.  Main point was as you took it... often the HC is there for a token speech and not much more.  I'm referring to college camps in general and not necessarily the UNC camp.  I will say that camps stated as prospect camps tend to have more participation from the top guys than regular camps.  Still, it is often more observation than instruction.  

A few years back, might have been when my son was going into freshman year, he did this same camp. It was while we were on our way to Myrtle Beach for a tournament. 

Coach Fox was definitely involved. As was Coach Jackson (RC at the time).  

There were kids of different abilities there. Unless they know your son, all he’ll get out of this camp (as far as recruiting goes) is that they’ll look for him when they are out and about recruiting. There were a couple of kids who they did speak with, but they had been personally invited to the camp. By telephone call. Not an email. 

We were fortunate enough to have the disposable income to do things like these camps. Plus, we were on a week+ vacation for the tournament also. 

My son did love the experience. That was good enough for me. 

Also in somewhat of same boat as OP.  My uncommitted RHP 2019 was planning on shutting down after Jupiter, but got a personal text from mid major D1 RC to attend their showcase camp two weeks after Jupiter weekend.  He wants to go so I’m on board with his decision.  This coach has been in contact with him for two months. I will say the talk above about 2019 class being about finished up with major D1s is a little depressing?  Are pitchers an exception?   

Would agree with several others that 2019 class is not done by a long shot. It's true that for many P5 schools (especially SEC and ACC) they have many commitments but that's not true of others (ie Big Ten), and definitely not true of other D1s, with a few exceptions. 

Interestingly, my 2019 son was invited to two camps of very attractive D1 schools that said they were still looking for the last one or two 2018 pitchers. 

For 2020s and beyond, please watch these discussions and be on top of the process.  Still, the best advice I've been given is that the "timeline" varies and don't panic because you make bad choices when you panic.

 

stayfocused posted:

Also in somewhat of same boat as OP.  My uncommitted RHP 2019 was planning on shutting down after Jupiter, but got a personal text from mid major D1 RC to attend their showcase camp two weeks after Jupiter weekend.  He wants to go so I’m on board with his decision.  This coach has been in contact with him for two months. I will say the talk above about 2019 class being about finished up with major D1s is a little depressing?  Are pitchers an exception?   

875 commitments currently listed on PG for the class of 2019, almost all of which are D1 I would assume. The class will end up with ~2500 commitments in D1, maybe a bit more (there are 298 D1 baseball programs).  So the class is not done. 

stayfocused posted:

Also in somewhat of same boat as OP.  My uncommitted RHP 2019 was planning on shutting down after Jupiter, but got a personal text from mid major D1 RC to attend their showcase camp two weeks after Jupiter weekend.  He wants to go so I’m on board with his decision.  This coach has been in contact with him for two months. I will say the talk above about 2019 class being about finished up with major D1s is a little depressing?  Are pitchers an exception?   

It depends but obviously schools are recruiting more pitchers then any other position, so more opportunities. Schools outside of the Power 5 are typically going to have opportunities available later in the recruitment process. If you go to PG commitments and search by school and grad year, you can confirm yourself. As an example, I looked up Clemson 2019 commits and they already have 9 committed pitchers. Then looked up Wichita St. who only has 1 committed pitcher for 2019. 

This thread is jarring some memories that I stuck way back in my brain but only now (due to the jarring) are coming forth.  Will share son's experience with similar camp scenario:

Son got camp email from D1 school summer of rising Jr. year.  Don't remember the wording but it seemed to suggest it was an "invite only" camp, blah-blah-blah.  I was suspect for all the same reasons others have mentioned above.  Not this dad's first rodeo nor first $300 spent on a camp at that point. 

The way it passed muster for me however was the fact that the camp did not appear to be advertised at all.  There was no website for the camp, no mention of it on their normal baseball camp website that had advertising for other camps later that fall, but there was no mention of this camp that RC had just invited son to saying/suggesting the invite only nature.  The RC's email was not personal at all.  Looked like a regular camp invite with the invite only wording, or something to that effect.  The fact that I could find no advertising for it was enough of a litmus test for me to believe it would be a legit invite only setting.  

Sure enough, there were only 32+- kids at the camp.  All good looking ball players.  HC reiterated the invite only status of the camp and thanked all for coming.  Skills and drills, with facilities tour in AM, with a game in afternoon of 16 vs 16, with many POs.  So lots of reps and exposure for everyone. 

 

 

 

 

Good info shared by #1. I was informed that college baseball programs do this all the time. In our case, they also invited commits which I was also told is common. It allows them to spend time introducing the programs culture, expectations, drill work, with their commits.

#1 Assistant Coach posted:

Sure enough, there were only 32+- kids at the camp.  All good looking ball players.  HC reiterated the invite only status of the camp and thanked all for coming.  Skills and drills, with facilities tour in AM, with a game in afternoon of 16 vs 16, with many POs.  So lots of reps and exposure for everyone. 

Even after hearing them for many years, stories like this still surprises me.

13.12.1.3 Attendance Restriction. A member institution’s sports camp or clinic shall be open to any and
all entrants (limited only by number, age, grade level and/or gender).

coachld posted:

Good info shared by #1. I was informed that college baseball programs do this all the time. In our case, they also invited commits which I was also told is common. It allows them to spend time introducing the programs culture, expectations, drill work, with their commits.

IMO, the #1 reason they get commits to their camps is for marketing. How many camp invites has your son received that say "n current players attended this camp!"? A person who is unfamiliar with the camp world might understandably conclude that those kids were "discovered" at the camp. They weren't.

MidAtlanticDad posted:
#1 Assistant Coach posted:

Sure enough, there were only 32+- kids at the camp.  All good looking ball players.  HC reiterated the invite only status of the camp and thanked all for coming.  Skills and drills, with facilities tour in AM, with a game in afternoon of 16 vs 16, with many POs.  So lots of reps and exposure for everyone. 

Even after hearing them for many years, stories like this still surprises me.

13.12.1.3 Attendance Restriction. A member institution’s sports camp or clinic shall be open to any and
all entrants (limited only by number, age, grade level and/or gender).

I haven't seen coaches get around this so much, as avoid it. The first camp my son went to was "open" to anyone, but the email invite left no doubt that it was highly personal, and when he walked up to register, it was clear they wanted him there. He got a big enthusiastic greeting and then the person at the desk was like "hey, coach smith, johnny jones is here!"

I don't know how they kept the other kids from coming, but it was a pretty restricted group of people.

 

MidAtlanticDad posted:
#1 Assistant Coach posted:

Sure enough, there were only 32+- kids at the camp.  All good looking ball players.  HC reiterated the invite only status of the camp and thanked all for coming.  Skills and drills, with facilities tour in AM, with a game in afternoon of 16 vs 16, with many POs.  So lots of reps and exposure for everyone. 

Even after hearing them for many years, stories like this still surprises me.

13.12.1.3 Attendance Restriction. A member institution’s sports camp or clinic shall be open to any and
all entrants (limited only by number, age, grade level and/or gender).

Like I said, “This thread is jarring memories from the back of my brain” from over a year ago, but I’m pretty sure if I recall that’s how it went down.   I know it was the smallest D1 camp son had ever attended with only 32+-  players.  

Only  question on my mind was, “How the heck did my kid get invited?”

We are leaning on going. It’s in driving distance, 1/3 the price of most 2day camps. There is only 48 kids and no other schools in attendance. 

We have no expectations beyond what’s advertised, campus tour, use of Baseball facilities, a few games, collegiate instruction (we hope). The player locker with personalized name plate will be a cool pic and the office team Nike work out set will make for a nice take home.  I told my son to  read the email again to make sure this wasn’t a make a wish type promo.  

#1 Assistant Coach posted:
MidAtlanticDad posted:
#1 Assistant Coach posted:

Sure enough, there were only 32+- kids at the camp.  All good looking ball players.  HC reiterated the invite only status of the camp and thanked all for coming.  Skills and drills, with facilities tour in AM, with a game in afternoon of 16 vs 16, with many POs.  So lots of reps and exposure for everyone. 

Even after hearing them for many years, stories like this still surprises me.

13.12.1.3 Attendance Restriction. A member institution’s sports camp or clinic shall be open to any and
all entrants (limited only by number, age, grade level and/or gender).

Like I said, “This thread is jarring memories from the back of my brain” from over a year ago, but I’m pretty sure if I recall that’s how it went down.   I know it was the smallest D1 camp son had ever attended with only 32+-  players.  

Only  question on my mind was, “How the heck did my kid get invited?”

I was not implying that your story wasn't accurate. I've heard the same thing from many other people about various programs. What surprises me is that coaches openly ignore the rule above. I guess they know which rules to worry about, and which ones not to.

MidAtlanticDad posted:
#1 Assistant Coach posted:
MidAtlanticDad posted:
#1 Assistant Coach posted:

Sure enough, there were only 32+- kids at the camp.  All good looking ball players.  HC reiterated the invite only status of the camp and thanked all for coming.  Skills and drills, with facilities tour in AM, with a game in afternoon of 16 vs 16, with many POs.  So lots of reps and exposure for everyone. 

Even after hearing them for many years, stories like this still surprises me.

13.12.1.3 Attendance Restriction. A member institution’s sports camp or clinic shall be open to any and
all entrants (limited only by number, age, grade level and/or gender).

Like I said, “This thread is jarring memories from the back of my brain” from over a year ago, but I’m pretty sure if I recall that’s how it went down.   I know it was the smallest D1 camp son had ever attended with only 32+-  players.  

Only  question on my mind was, “How the heck did my kid get invited?”

I was not implying that your story wasn't accurate. I've heard the same thing from many other people about various programs. What surprises me is that coaches openly ignore the rule above. I guess they know which rules to worry about, and which ones not to.

Given the UNC report on the academic fraud that was released today,  I am not sure anyone should be afraid of the NCAA. 

old_school posted:

Prepster...where is prepster??

Now that I'm a new resident of North Carolina, I've been invited to take in as much of the December 2/3 Pitcher/Catcher Camp as I can. It's coming at a busy time; but, I'm going to try to catch at least one of the two days.

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