A school in our area took 22, yes 22, kids on the varsity team. I think they have 60 across Freshman, JV and Varsity. Has anyone ever seen anything like this before? Going to be a lot of angry parents I think.
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We carried 24 last year. Though in our area Varsity and JV are one team. If you don't get significant playing time during the week and during the first Saturday game, you play in the JV game on Saturday. Wasn't as much complaining as I expected, though its generally accepted that Sr's play over Jr's on our team. There are a few exceptions but its usually only 1 or 2 Jr's getting significant V playing time. If you figure 1/2 the team is Sr's, factor in pitchers, there really are not many Sr's not playing. That probably leads to pacifying the parents,
We had 29 last year, and have 25 this year. Strong but not overwhelming team, with 9 sophs who are all potential starters. Once on Varsity, no JV option, but hope springs eternal, as someone once said. Everyone's excited now (first pre season tournament game is today) but in a few weeks who knows.
I think rosters should be smaller but in this situation I'm just a hopeful dad.
Over the last 14 seasons, I’ve seen as many as 26 and at least 5 other times more than 20 were carried. But there are a lot of reasons for carrying that many players, and every season we play at least a few teams suiting up more than 20 players.
Why do you think parents will be angry?
We have 24 on Varsity. We had 22 on our freshman team last year and I think the same this year. We also have a separate JV team. We have the unwritten rule (maybe all schools have it) that seniors can't be cut if they were on the team junior year. It makes for a large varsity team.
Stats4Gnats posted:Over the last 14 seasons, I’ve seen as many as 26 and at least 5 other times more than 20 were carried. But there are a lot of reasons for carrying that many players, and every season we play at least a few teams suiting up more than 20 players.
Why do you think parents will be angry?
I forgot to note, no seniors at this school yet. Juniors are as high as they go. Last year the team had 17 and there was not a lot of playing time I heard. I can’t imagine 22 now. My sons team has 17 and my older son never played on a varsity team with more than 18
Our High school had 22 as well. Help your son to become good enough to be an every day player they can count on so 22 or 2200 won't matter to him.
"Going to be a lot of angry parents I think. "
Just think how angry they would have been if they were cut. Thank your lucky stars that the coach recognized those players that were committed to the team and the game, even though they weren't going to be starters.
Larger Varsity rosters seem to be the trend & I think it does nothing but cause problems. All 22 kids think they should be on the field regardless of their level of ability - and so do their parents. Last time I checked only 9 play at one time so there is no way to get every player involved no matter how creative Coach is about PH or PR roles. Policy of not cutting seniors just because they were in the program as juniors is about as stupid as the rule about having to swing a 32" bat no matter how big you are (mentioned in another thread). Most team dissention is caused by malcontent seniors who aren't happy about lack of playing time. I have seen this play out for 4 straight years and it destroys team chemistry and leads to an underperforming team. My opinion is that no player should be entitled to be on any roster in any sport if they aren't good enough to contribute to the team. You can trace all of this back to the culture of this generation of kids (which was created by a bunch of misguided parents) that everyone is a winner & we don't keep score & we all get a juice box and a participation trophy. That's how these kids were introduced to sports when they were 6 years old and that's how they think when they are 17. It is a rude awakening for all of them when they eventually find out that the world doesn't work that way.
SultanofSwat posted:"Going to be a lot of angry parents I think. "
Just think how angry they would have been if they were cut. Thank your lucky stars that the coach recognized those players that were committed to the team and the game, even though they weren't going to be starters.
Ah yes, the give them all trophies group. I guess I do it a little different. If you are one of the best players you make the team. If not, you get cut or sent to JV and use it to work harder.
If I coached a HSV team with 22 players, I would publicly harden my heart and do what was necessary, but privately I would be sick at heart about the number of fine young men on the bench.
adbono posted:Larger Varsity rosters seem to be the trend & I think it does nothing but cause problems. All 22 kids think they should be on the field regardless of their level of ability - and so do their parents. Last time I checked only 9 play at one time so there is no way to get every player involved no matter how creative Coach is about PH or PR roles. Policy of not cutting seniors just because they were in the program as juniors is about as stupid as the rule about having to swing a 32" bat no matter how big you are (mentioned in another thread). Most team dissention is caused by malcontent seniors who aren't happy about lack of playing time. I have seen this play out for 4 straight years and it destroys team chemistry and leads to an underperforming team. My opinion is that no player should be entitled to be on any roster in any sport if they aren't good enough to contribute to the team. You can trace all of this back to the culture of this generation of kids (which was created by a bunch of misguided parents) that everyone is a winner & we don't keep score & we all get a juice box and a participation trophy. That's how these kids were introduced to sports when they were 6 years old and that's how they think when they are 17. It is a rude awakening for all of them when they eventually find out that the world doesn't work that way.
Seniors at son's school are not usually cut, unless coach sees that they will be malcontent. One senior got booted this year, apparently for that reason. Don't know the full story, neither does anyone else except the coach and the kid. He had a good chance at a starting spot. Seniors that are kept on the team are told their chances of playing. Or that they won't. Some stay, some move on. This guy has been a varsity coach for 32 years. Friendly guy, but he will never talk about a player/team/strategy to any parents. The lines are very clear. Kids are told they will be held accountable for their parents actions if it is detrimental to the team. And angry parents are detrimental to the team. Best be angry on the inside if it's your nature to be angry about youth sports.
Kinda like some silly western movie I saw as a kid. New town, new sheriff in town run amuck. Jail not completed yet, it has no bars. New sheriff draws lines where the jail cell is. Pours red paint that looks like blood on the floor just outside the lines. Bad guy stays in the area marked for the jail cell. Most parents stay in the cell in this program.
In the fall "Baseball class", each kid is given a piece of paper. It says "Varsity", "JV/Sophomore", "Varsity/Cut", or "Cut", etc. He then will put a few notes "Compete for innings on mound, develop bat" or the like. Then he meets with each kid individually and explains it to them.
At signing day last year, there was a catcher that signed with a pretty good JUCO. In four years he never made the team. Pretty sure that story is some of the blood just outside the jail cell.
He may be my favorite coach of all time.
SultanofSwat posted:"Going to be a lot of angry parents I think. "
Just think how angry they would have been if they were cut. Thank your lucky stars that the coach recognized those players that were committed to the team and the game, even though they weren't going to be starters.
The players I have seen in this situation were neither "committed to the team" or "committed to the game". They thought they were entitled to something. Therein lies the problem.
There are currently 20 players on our HS varsity roster. 12 of them are seniors. Only 4 of the 12 seniors are good players and 3 will advance to play in college. Only 6 are good enough to be on a varsity roster. The other 6 that aren't good enough to be there don't even play travel ball in the summer. We have a number of young underclassmen that show a lot of promise. If I were coaching our HS team I would cut all 6 of the seniors who have proven they cant play on Monday - and I would be fired on Tuesday. That's the climate we live in.
Kind of agree with others....if you're players #17-22 would you rather be on the team...or be cut? My son's school normally only had 28-30 in the entire program....so on days we played JV and Varsity, the Varsity would only have 15-16....which was ok, as we only had 1 or 2 kids that were PO's. If you are a bigger school with the option of having PO's, I could see keeping 22 kids....8 starting position players and a starting DH.....5 or 6 backups and 6 or 7 PO's. Again, I'm not sure why there is an issue with numbers....unless your coach treats it like rec ball and says "everybody plays" lol.
ADBONO wrote:
“Most team dissention is caused by malcontent seniors who aren't happy about lack of playing time. I have seen this play out for 4 straight years and it destroys team chemistry and leads to an underperforming team.”
Our high school head coach said this^ very thing happened two years ago and he vowed to never do it again. So, last year he had eight seniors out of the 18 varsity players.
As in the case with GO44’s son coach, he explains what every player’s role is and they have to decide if they are good with it.
This year we have 18 total and eight seniors again. Only the number #1 and #2 pitchers, one of the two catchers and our CF will be starters. So, four seniors won’t play a lot but again, their roles were clearly explained.
A few days after the teams (V, JV & freshmen) were chosen this year, he sent a note to parents saying that players could still be cut. “Word on the street” was that some seniors were not being leaders and they would be cut if they continued their current behavior.
Last year, the team made a deep run into the playoffs and we had a great group of players and parent which meant zero issues. This year, it remains to be seen but I think the message was received.
Buckeye 2015 posted:Kind of agree with others....if you're players #17-22 would you rather be on the team...or be cut? My son's school normally only had 28-30 in the entire program....so on days we played JV and Varsity, the Varsity would only have 15-16....which was ok, as we only had 1 or 2 kids that were PO's. If you are a bigger school with the option of having PO's, I could see keeping 22 kids....8 starting position players and a starting DH.....5 or 6 backups and 6 or 7 PO's. Again, I'm not sure why there is an issue with numbers....unless your coach treats it like rec ball and says "everybody plays" lol.
"Kind of agree with others....if you're players # 17-22 would you rather be on the team...or be cut?"
Really ? Is it the players choice ? Since when do they get to choose ?? That's how you make it sound ! Did you ever consider that if a nonproductive senior was cut he might find something that he was better suited to do ? I guess in some cases if a kid is an asset to team chemistry its fine to tell them he can remain on the team if he accepts that he wont play. Problem is most kids wont accept that role. Most HS kids also resist a PO role - even if its clear. A bunch of seniors on a varsity roster that aren't good enough to get on the field (and don't have a role) is a recipe for disaster. I have seen it too many times - and not once have I seen it end well.
I’m going to address keeping seniors who don’t play that increase roster size. My son’s high school coach would allow seniors to dress for varsity senior year if they hung in there for four years. The writing (varsity playing time) was on the wall for these players junior year as part time JV players.
The coach told them they were invited to be varsity players senior year as long as they didn't gripe, their parents didn’t gripe, they cheered and chased foul balls.
A couple of kids didn’t take the uniform over chasing foul balls. One of the seniors was such a good kid he had the ability to be a team leader from the bench. The team went nuts when the kid finally got an at bat. He drove a triple off the fence a foot from being a homer.
RJM posted:I’m going to address keeping seniors who don’t play that increase roster size. My son’s high school coach would allow seniors to dress for varsity senior year if they hung in there for four years. The writing (varsity playing time) was on the wall for these players junior year as part time JV players.
The coach told them they were invited to be varsity players senior year as long as they didn't gripe, their parents didn’t gripe, they cheered and chased foul balls.
A couple of kids didn’t take the uniform over chasing foul balls. One of the seniors was such a good kid he had the ability to be a team leader from the bench. The team went nuts when the kid finally got an at bat. He drove a triple off the fence a foot from being a homer.
There is always a place for a kid like that. But IMO a kid that embraces his role on the bench (as a senior) is the exception and not the rule.
Suds posted:A school in our area took 22, yes 22, kids on the varsity team. I think they have 60 across Freshman, JV and Varsity. Has anyone ever seen anything like this before? Going to be a lot of angry parents I think.
We had 25 last year - most of the teams around here do on varsity. We had 10-11 pitchers and needed them all. It's true that a few of the kids didn't play a lot, but this is the way it works in high school. The basketball team has 15 players and about 9 of them play every game.