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We have had several recent threads from younger (2020/2021) players and parents asking about what level they project to or should target, which is great.  Figuring out the lay of the land early is far better than late.

Part of the equation, I think, is understanding what kind of HS players land at the different college levels.  We know that the range is very wide.  That said, I thought it may be helpful to illustrate what "the middle" looks like.   So, I am listing the bio's (names protected) of the most recent recruiting class for a D2 school that plays in a good league but typically finishes below .500 most years.  Pretty darn "middle" in the college baseball world.

Player #1 - 2B, prepped at IMG, hit about .300 Sr year

Player #2 - C, helped HS win two state championships in his four years. During his senior season, was named the team captain and hit .367 from the cleanup spot. Was honored with .. outstanding senior baseball player award, All-State Team, All-Division Team, and Interscholastic All-Star. Was also a standout on the football field, winning four state championships and earning All-City and All-Division honors.

Player #3 - LHP, helped his team win the district championship, was a four-year scholar athlete and in 2017 received the "xxx" Award for his leadership and hard work.

Player #4 - 1B, was a three-time all-district, three-time all-county, first-team honors as a senior.  In his junior year, was named the County 5A Hitter of the Year following an impressive season that saw him hit .420 with 16 RBIs, two home runs, and eight doubles. As a senior, hit .416 with 28 RBIs, three home runs, and eight doubles.

Player #5 - Ut., JC transfer, JC sophomore year hit .444 and drove in 18 runs while smacking four doubles and four triples.

Player #6 - RHP, As a senior, posted a 0.48 ERA over 29.1 innings pitched while striking out 35.  7A All-District honors in 2016 and 2017, State Region All-High School Honorable Mention, First Team All-Conference, Senior All-Star Game, and Perfect Game All-Tournament Team on four occasions.

Player #7 - OF, Power 5 D1 drop down, played in 52 games in his two years with D1 team and hit .296 as a freshman. made the 2017 Conference All-Academic Team following his sophomore campaign. In HS, he was USA Today All-State First Team in 2014 and 2015 while hitting .423 as a senior.

Player #8 - 2B,  was his team's 2017 Offensive MVP and a two-time selection to the all-area team. Was also a three-year member of the basketball team.

Player #9 - RHP, compiled an impressive 17-3 record with a 1.88 ERA over three years at (HS). As a senior, he fanned 33 batters in 27.1 innings pitched while allowing only 11 hits. 

Player #10 -  C, was named to the All-League Team following his junior and senior seasons. He was a two-time recipient of the Coaches Award (2015, 2017) and named the team's Most Valuable Player in 2016.

Player #11 - UT, boasted a 0.66 ERA his senior year with 34 strikeouts while also posting a .302 batting average. Was a multi-sport athlete lettering in football, baseball, and soccer. He earned the MVP Award in baseball and was named to the all-state team in football.

Player #12 - RHP - During his senior season, hit .330 from the leadoff spot with 11 doubles and one home run. On the mound, finished the season with a 1.75 ERA over 12 innings while striking out 19.

Player #13 -  IF, JC transfer.  In his sophomore JC season, hit .270 with eight doubles, two home runs, 17 RBIs, and a team-leading five triples. In his freshman campaign, hit .289 with two home runs. In HS, he was a four-year letterman while being named team captain in 2014.

Remember, this is a below-average D2.  So, I think there are many conclusions that can be drawn from this small snapshot and can make for some good discussion.  

The biggest takeaway for me as it relates to the young 2020/2021 players is this...

  While this is just one of over 1,500 college baseball programs, it is quite typical in the sense that most of the players (particularly the ones that become starters) develop the skills, have the talent and put in the work to become very good and very accomplished HS players first.

Don't put the cart before the horse.  Yes, start educating yourself on what you want out of college and where you may want to go but work hard at being the best HS player (and student) you can be.  Yes, start figuring out the best resources to help you with both.  But, don't look past your HS experience.  Enjoy it to the fullest.  Most of the rest will start to become much more clear when the time comes.

 

 

Last edited by cabbagedad
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I think doing this type of research would be a reality check to a lot of kids on high school rosters.

As in the example - even at a below .500 Div 2 school, the players were all HS studs.  Probably the best on their team - maybe even across an entire area. 

It's nice to dream about playing D1, but reality doesn't hold anybody's hand. 

Cabbagedad, thanks very much for this post and the research that went into it.  My rule of thumb with my '22 is to encourage him to pursue immediate or near term goals - improve his pop time, get a higher % of quality atbats, etc.  Then you can look at high school and goals like starting 3 or 4 years, making all-conference, etc.   Then regional - can he be the best catcher in his grad year in the city?  County?  Everything beyond that is just too theoretical now.  

One of the best things you can do to compare yourself (next to being truly honest) is to attend some local college games.  Most kids that go on to play college ball rarely see any games other then what is on ESPN.  In most every area there are multiple levels of college ball being played.  Take a look at how the team does historically and then head out to watch games.  Seeing how well the middle of the road D2's and D3's can be eye opening for some.  Seeing how bad some of the lower end D1s play can also be eye opening.

CABBAGEDAD:  thank you very much for this thread.  As a parent of a 2021, this is a great reminder.

One of the reasons we decided for my son to not play Fall Ball this year is to prioritize the High School team & experience.  We want him to hit the ground running with the academics without the distraction of multiple practices & games per week.   We also want him to rest his arm for 2 straight months so that when HS winter workouts start up he'll be ready to go.

It is easy to get caught up in the Showcase/Travel Team experience, and you are correct:  work on being a great high school player.

For my son, he is taking a multi-faceted approach:  there are tangible goals that he can control the pursuit of such as 60 times, Exit Velo, GPA and then there are things that he can prepare for but are more out of his control (which team he makes, playing time etc)

The main advice we have gotten from multiple sources (including here) is to work on getting Bigger/Faster/Stronger and to receive some quality instruction from a reputable pro (for my Kid as a position player that means hitting instruction).   That is the approach we are taking.

You are correct, even at our local JUCO, most of the roster is filled with HS All-Conference players and All-State players

Last edited by 3and2Fastball

The recruiting site we are members of have players states and videos.  I was checking out a camp email from a JC in our area.  The neat thing about this site is that ANY school you look on will show the athletes from this recruiting site that went there.  By clicking on the recruit you can see what they took in previous years.....Measurables....and even their videos.  This JC had a catcher who listed pop time as 1.97 (top) and 2.0 (avg).

First thing I thought was BS when I watched his video.  I broke out my coaches eye (after just using a stop watch) and this guy was a 2.3 to 2.4.  Point is...Don't assume if a kid says hes 1.9 pop or a 6.7 60 or 93mph.....Doesnt mean its right.  I think when stats are recorded by someone like PrepBaseball, then its legit.

But when I am bored I can see what level schools are taking as far as commits.  Gives you an interesting take on measurables.

Good stuff... Like Joe says above: go to some college games at varying levels and it won't take long to figure out the difference.  A big difference you'll see at the individual level is the bat.  The truly talented have great defense and really hit it hard.  And some of these kids play at Ivy D1, low D1, Juco, or a top D3 for varying reasons: searching for higher academics, engineering or premed requiring lab classes which are hard to attend if on the road a lot with baseball, or they were a late bloomer not getting the top D1 attention early in the recruiting cycle, or simply not being at the right place at the right time to be seen.  Top D1 teams have greater depths of talented position players and pitchers. 

Cabbagedad — this is really good stuff and very realistic of what to expect.  If I have the time — I’ll post the bios of a few kids that are going to D1s and D3s that played with my son in high school.

My only other advice to the 2020/21/22 parents out there — academics and grades are the keys to the kingdom.  I know a number of kids that didn’t put the work into the classroom in high school and basically frozen themselves out of a lot of D3 programs.  Good baseball players, but as you point out the bar is pretty high… and without the grades, you are going have fewer options.

 

MAM posted:

My only other advice to the 2020/21/22 parents out there — academics and grades are the keys to the kingdom.  I know a number of kids that didn’t put the work into the classroom in high school and basically frozen themselves out of a lot of D3 programs.  Good baseball players, but as you point out the bar is pretty high… and without the grades, you are going have fewer options.

Can never get reminded about that too much.

What is the general GPA range thresholds?  That is something I haven't been able to figure out.  3.75 or better for high academics?

Rob T posted:

I think doing this type of research would be a reality check to a lot of kids on high school rosters.

As in the example - even at a below .500 Div 2 school, the players were all HS studs.  Probably the best on their team - maybe even across an entire area. 

It's nice to dream about playing D1, but reality doesn't hold anybody's hand. 

It's nice to dream about playing D1, but reality doesn't hold anybody's hand.

Stealing this to say to my son. Haven't decided as to claim or give credit.

Great stuff Cabbagedad. This is a great illustration of how much talent it takes to play on what many would look down their nose at as a mediocre mid-level college baseball program. This would be great to show a HS Freshman player and/or Freshman parent as an eye opener of the type of player you have to beat out for any college roster spot.  12% of all HS baseball players play college baseball at any level generally because those are the ones who have the mental and physical skills to succeed at both. I am not one that believes any HS player can just find a spot at a low level D3 and play V innings. You may find a spot as a D3 JV player or as a glorified team manager.  My default position from multiple examples in my family is it is really hard to play sports after HS no matter the level. 

cabbagedad posted:

We have had several recent threads from younger (2020/2021) players and parents asking about what level they project to or should target, which is great.  Figuring out the lay of the land early is far better than late.

Part of the equation, I think, is understanding what kind of HS players land at the different college levels.  We know that the range is very wide.  That said, I thought it may be helpful to illustrate what "the middle" looks like.   So, I am listing the bio's (names protected) of the most recent recruiting class for a D2 school that plays in a good league but typically finishes below .500 most years.  Pretty darn "middle" in the college baseball world.

Player #1 - 2B, prepped at IMG, hit about .300 Sr year

Player #2 - C, helped HS win two state championships in his four years. During his senior season, was named the team captain and hit .367 from the cleanup spot. Was honored with .. outstanding senior baseball player award, All-State Team, All-Division Team, and Interscholastic All-Star. Was also a standout on the football field, winning four state championships and earning All-City and All-Division honors.

Player #3 - LHP, helped his team win the district championship, was a four-year scholar athlete and in 2017 received the "xxx" Award for his leadership and hard work.

Player #4 - 1B, was a three-time all-district, three-time all-county, first-team honors as a senior.  In his junior year, was named the County 5A Hitter of the Year following an impressive season that saw him hit .420 with 16 RBIs, two home runs, and eight doubles. As a senior, hit .416 with 28 RBIs, three home runs, and eight doubles.

Player #5 - Ut., JC transfer, JC sophomore year hit .444 and drove in 18 runs while smacking four doubles and four triples.

Player #6 - RHP, As a senior, posted a 0.48 ERA over 29.1 innings pitched while striking out 35.  7A All-District honors in 2016 and 2017, State Region All-High School Honorable Mention, First Team All-Conference, Senior All-Star Game, and Perfect Game All-Tournament Team on four occasions.

Player #7 - OF, Power 5 D1 drop down, played in 52 games in his two years with D1 team and hit .296 as a freshman. made the 2017 Conference All-Academic Team following his sophomore campaign. In HS, he was USA Today All-State First Team in 2014 and 2015 while hitting .423 as a senior.

Player #8 - 2B,  was his team's 2017 Offensive MVP and a two-time selection to the all-area team. Was also a three-year member of the basketball team.

Player #9 - RHP, compiled an impressive 17-3 record with a 1.88 ERA over three years at (HS). As a senior, he fanned 33 batters in 27.1 innings pitched while allowing only 11 hits. 

Player #10 -  C, was named to the All-League Team following his junior and senior seasons. He was a two-time recipient of the Coaches Award (2015, 2017) and named the team's Most Valuable Player in 2016.

Player #11 - UT, boasted a 0.66 ERA his senior year with 34 strikeouts while also posting a .302 batting average. Was a multi-sport athlete lettering in football, baseball, and soccer. He earned the MVP Award in baseball and was named to the all-state team in football.

Player #12 - RHP - During his senior season, hit .330 from the leadoff spot with 11 doubles and one home run. On the mound, finished the season with a 1.75 ERA over 12 innings while striking out 19.

Player #13 -  IF, JC transfer.  In his sophomore JC season, hit .270 with eight doubles, two home runs, 17 RBIs, and a team-leading five triples. In his freshman campaign, hit .289 with two home runs. In HS, he was a four-year letterman while being named team captain in 2014.

Remember, this is a below-average D2.  So, I think there are many conclusions that can be drawn from this small snapshot and can make for some good discussion.  

The biggest takeaway for me as it relates to the young 2020/2021 players is this...

  While this is just one of over 1,500 college baseball programs, it is quite typical in the sense that most of the players (particularly the ones that become starters) develop the skills, have the talent and put in the work to become very good and very accomplished HS players first.

Don't put the cart before the horse.  Yes, start educating yourself on what you want out of college and where you may want to go but work hard at being the best HS player (and student) you can be.  Yes, start figuring out the best resources to help you with both.  But, don't look past your HS experience.  Enjoy it to the fullest.  Most of the rest will start to become much more clear when the time comes.

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to do this. Copying to show my 2022. 

3and2Fastball posted:

Can never get reminded about that too much.

What is the general GPA range thresholds?  That is something I haven't been able to figure out.  3.75 or better for high academics?

It's hard to say really.  You have unweighted vs weighted, rigor of courses, reputation of high school - a lot of different factors. High academics usually don't just look at the numbers.

I think you can realistically say if you can't pull an unweighted 3.5 in honors or above level courses, that a high academic college would be challenging to both get into, and to be able to keep up.

Test scores are probably easier to pin down than GPA. Getting above a 30 ACT or 1300 SAT is probably a starting point.  A little higher for the really exclusive schools, but 30/1300 will start opening up a lot of opportunities.

Of course the schools frequently show some leniency for athletes.

Especially if you throw 90...

Elijah posted:
Rob T posted:

I think doing this type of research would be a reality check to a lot of kids on high school rosters.

As in the example - even at a below .500 Div 2 school, the players were all HS studs.  Probably the best on their team - maybe even across an entire area. 

It's nice to dream about playing D1, but reality doesn't hold anybody's hand. 

It's nice to dream about playing D1, but reality doesn't hold anybody's hand.

Stealing this to say to my son. Haven't decided as to claim or give credit.

I'll have my people send over a licensing agreement. 

Agree that ACT of 30 is the magic number for the high academic schools...a couple points over 30 really opens up the doors. What we learned along the way is the schools can be lenient but not as much as you would think. As one coach said to us "does not make sense for me to get a border line kid in and then have him struggle to stay eligible".

Since this discussion has veered toward academics, let me throw something out there for the other 90%...

For those not targeting the top academic schools, an overall 3.5 GPA seems to be a very common benchmark when it comes to getting significant academic $$, not to mention easier school acceptance and warmer coach embrace.

There's another carrot for all you 2020 - 2022's (and parents of..)      It's real and it works!

cabbagedad posted:

For those not targeting the top academic schools, an overall 3.5 GPA seems to be a very common benchmark when it comes to getting significant academic $$, not to mention easier school acceptance and warmer coach embrace.

There's another carrot for all you 2020 - 2022's (and parents of..)      It's real and it works!

Thanks!  That was actually going to be my next question.

As the Dad of a 2021 who is starting HS in literally a few weeks, the GPA is the big one to me.  Start out your high school Baseball career hitting .185 as a freshman with poor measureables and all of that can improved on tremendously.  If you throw 90+ or run a 6.5 sixty as a Junior or Senior nobody is going to ask how your freshman season of Baseball went... start out your Freshman year with a 2.5 GPA or worse and you have severely limited your future options

Last edited by 3and2Fastball

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