Whats average speed for a 14-15yr old?

14 yo average cruising speed would be about 65 mph. Average freshman pitcher (14 to 15yo) cruising speed would be about 70 mph. Average cruising speed for a good HS pitching prospect at 14 to 15 yo would be about 75 mph. That will usually get a freshman pitcher onto the JV assuming reasonable pitching ability to go along with the velocity. Cruising at 80 mph as a freshman would be a potential star. Cruising at 85 mph as a freshman is maybe one in the entire country each year.

Thats what I was thinking, but my new Highschool next year only has a varsity team That I know of... I pitch around 60-70, And Im going to tryout and Not sure if pitching would be a option or should I try to take another field position? Im going to Clearwater Highschool in pinellas county, anyone heard of its baseball team and know if it has a jv and varsity team?thanks, very appreciated-
Will G.

Those numbers sound a bit low for our area. I am in KY and I would estimate the average freshman to be cruising in the 70-75 range. There are many that throw in the 80-85 range. I don't think I have seen any above that yet though.

agentdad...no offense, but have you used a gun? 80-85 for many freshman is WAY above the norm. 70-75 sounds closer, but still a little high for avaerage.

In our neck of the woods 63-68 is the average for a decent freshman pitcher on a freshman team. Fast is anything over 70. My experience is that everybodies much faster early in the year until I turn the gun on them. The really fast pitchers "estimated" in the 80's never seem to be able to get it done when the gun is around.

I think the two freshman pitchers I know about at our HS are cruising 69 or 70 and low 70s. I don't know what the 6' 170 lb 14yo pitching for the varsity throws. I believe TO HS has a freshman throwing 87 max according to one of the showcase firms, but he's 16yo and most likely on the varsity or the JV.

Of course Stock was throwing mid to high 80s last year as a 14yo freshman throwing for the varsity. I don't think our area is typical and I stand by my earlier estimates and if anything would drop them toward DG's numbers. I expect mine to be cruising about 68 or 69 as a freshman and am hoping for 70 to 72. He throws 67 and 68 when trying to throw hard so I'd put him as cruising at 63-64 for now. I also have a young 14yo on my Pony team who is cruising about 68-72 now so I figure he'll be low to mid 70s as a freshman.

CADad has some good points. Ages of Freshman can vary from 14-16 years old and at that age that can be a very big difference physically and potentially speed. I would also agree that some kids cruise at one speed and then pump it up 3-5 MPH occassionally. Other kids are comfortable cruising at their maximum.

I gun every pitcher I see at HS games and I see a lot....almost 50 games already this year.
Trust me when I say this: there are many more HS pitchers in the 70s than there are in the mid 80s.
My son is in the 8th grade and turned 14 2 weeks ago. He sits in the 74-76 range comfortably and that is way above average at 14U. We have 2 14U kids in the area (one the Baseball America POY last year)that hit 80 on my stalker this past weekend. That is exceptional.
I can't tell you how many people tell me about this kid or that kid that "must be in the upper 80s" and is in reality 81-83. Don't believe most of what you hear and you will be ahead of the game.

rbinaz is right on the money, in my experience. I have a 14 year old 8th grader who is a catcher but pitches too.

Mid 70's is above average; there is one guy I've seen in my state the last two years touching 80 at the age of 14. My son is a low 70's pitcher, and he's a pretty big strong kid.

A 14 year old at 80 or above is certainly not unheard of, but, like rbinaz says, it is exceptional.

rbinaz,
Way above average. I'll be absolutely thrilled if mine can sit at 72 next year as a 14yo. It'll take some work, some growing and some maturing for that to happen.

Starzz & DG are correct. Velocity is way overstated in most cases. I would love it if my 15 yr. old could hit 85, but he's a little shy of that. He is a varsity pitcher due to several factors, the least of which is velocity.

California is considered a hot bed of talent and we have travelled up and down the state at select events. I agree that some kids can actually get into the 80's at 13 & 14 years old. But these kids are exceptionally rare.

hey I am 12 years old and I haven't hit puberity yet. I normally cruise around 65. A parent came up to my dad and said that the JV coach was out looking and was standing by someone that had a gun and he said that the last pitch that I threw in a two inning outing hit 74 I was just getting warmed up. I feel like I am not giving it everything that I have. What I want to know is will I keep gaining speed or will I level off at a certain age?

The thing about this issue is that lots of these 13-15yo guys who throw high 70s to mid 80s, are the guys who grow really fast and weigh like 180 and are 6'0" tall. I am currently 14yo and am only 5'8" 135lbs. At this point in time, I throw about 75 tops, so compare me to someone the exact same age,but thats 5 inches taller,has adult bulk and weighs 180,and you'd definitely see a difference.

I do alot of work with 14-15YO pitchers. In our area, average cruising speed for a 15YO (which would normally be a freshman) is somewhere between 65-69. 70+ would be good. 75+ would be very good (and probably a ticket to the sophomore or jv team. 80+ would be exceptional (and a ticket to the varsity at most schools. Those are average speeds. Most can top out a couple mph over their crusing speed occasionally.

It is amazing how much slower everyone throws when a QUALITY/ACCURATE gun is around. Don't believe academy guns, and don't believe word of mouth. I have seen scout guns on many top prospects, and they usually cruise at least 3-4 mph below what I heard the crusied.

K13,
Pretty common for a top speed (throwing hard for the gun as opposed to highest speed ever recorded) to be reported as a cruising speed and cruising speed is almost always about 4 mph below top speed.

Last time we gunned my 13yo he was hitting 67-68 regularly and hit 69 once. I estimate his cruising speed at 63 to 64 on that gun.

i'm a hs freshman and i turned 15 april 13 (last wednesday). i was clocked last august at 66-68 consistently at a camp (i'm certain that this is an accurate radar gun). right now i would estimate that i'm cruising at 71-72, topping out at 74. i think i'll be able to get in front of a radar gun soon and i'll let you know how i do.....this will be a little experiment.

THE FB must be located to work. Speed will come with age and some attention to building rotary power and technique but the ability to work in and out with movement will allow you to survive. Bring that 83 plus MPH FB in HS that doesn't move and you can't locate and you will give up 10 runs quick. Way to much emphasis is placed on speed alone IMO

Couldn't agree more SwingBuster (read above my statement on coming up with a gun that measures movement and accuracy). Heck, I was a pitcher and even I could hit a flat 83 mph FB!

I was wondering if the average speed of a freshman’s fastball is calculated by taking all the freshmen on the team, clocking them, adding all their speeds together and then dividing by the number of freshmen on the team. Should we just use the ones that are currently pitching or do we check position players too? Do we geographically adjust the results. If we are looking at pitchers only, who do we calculate? Many used to pitch before they came to high school but aren’t considered pitchers at this point but MAY become pitchers when they are upperclassmen. To be fair and accurate we need to establish a national procedure for establishing an average fastball rate for all different age groups. I nominate Swingbuster to get the ball rolling.
Fungo

Good point Fungo. When a kid comes into a HS program what determines if they are considered a pitcher? Velocity and the ability to throw strikes is what we use as the determining factor. Now some kids come into HS and have a strong arm but have no mechanics and can not throw a strike. Some come into HS and can throw strikes but dont have enough velocity to pitch. The first group you work with and hopefully over time they learn proper mechanics and can help you on the hill down the road. The second group you work with and hopefully they develop the arm strength and gain enough velocity to help you on the hill down the road. Then you have the kids that have either avg good or exceptionaly velocity and can throw strikes. These are the kids that get on the hill right away. Hopefully they continue to work and only improve over time. In my years at the HS level the avg Freshman that we use as a pitcher is around the 68-72 mph range. The above avg Freshman is in the mid 70's and the exceptional Freshman is in the upper 70's to low 80's. Now that does not mean that the avg guy in the 68-72 can not throw harder than the exceptional guy by his sr year or even jr year. Work ethic, how much does he grow, genetics etc all come into play. We have had kids that were not even considered pitchers as Freshman that were borderline making the team end up as our #1 or #2 down the road. Some kids come into HS 5'6 140 and by their Jr year are 6'2 190 and really develop. And some kids come in 6'0 190 throwing 80 and leave 6'0 190 throwing 80-82. There are so many factors that it is impossible to project what kids are going to do from 15 to 19. If your a freshman and you are one of those exceptional guys dont rest on your current status because if you do you could be the avg guy as a jr sr. And if your one of those below avg or avg guys keep working because if you do you could be the exceptional guy your jr or sr year. We have two sophs that are 15. One is 6'3 165 and is 83-85 cruise and can hit 88. The other is 6'2 205 and is 82-84 and has hit around 86. We have two Freshman one a pitcher and one a catcher. The pitcher is 5'10 175 and 82-84 and has hit 86 and the catcher is 6'0 205 and is low 80's and has hit 84. His pop times are 2.1 2.0. All four of these guys are exceptional right now for there ages. What will determine if they are exceptional as Jrs and Srs when it will really matter for their baseball future? Work ethic during and especially out of season, genetics and staying healthy. We are really blessed to have four arms like this especially at a young age. But that wont mean a thing if they are satisfied with where they are at any point in the game. Getting caught up in where you are right now and where you stack up right now is counter productive. Where do you want to be and what do you need to do to get there is more important. And do you have the heart and the work ethic needed to achieve your goals is the more important question. jmo

Coach May -
Four young arms like that on one team? Sound as if you'll be winning lots of games for quite some time!

We are currently ranked #7 in the state. We are 11-3 5-0 in conference. There is no doubt that we are strong on the hill every game out. We have really pitched well and for the most part played really good defense. In the games we have lost we have just not hit and gave up a couple of runs. Our better sticks are our younger guys for the most part and they just need to learn to be more patient at the plate. We need to find some guys to step up in a couple of posistions for next year to fill in some holes by graduation. With the potential pitching that we will have from this group we could be darn good for awhile. Its kind of funny when we play people because we have a Freshman or Soph on the hill a Freshman behind the plate every game. We played in a tournement a couple of weeks ago and we started game one with a soph game two with a Fresh and game three with a soph and a freshman all three behind the plate. People are amazed at the level they play at and all four are just 15. Hopefully they all will continue to work hard at the game like they have and they only will get better with time.

Swingbuster and K13,
Having seen pitchers do well in HS against all but the best hitting teams without great location or great movement and also having seen their gun readings from showcases I'd say you are underestimating the impact of a 83+ mph fastball in HS. Any kid who can throw strikes at 83+ on a regular basis and has at least one off speed pitch will do reasonably well in HS. If they have good location and/or movement then they'll do very well.

CADad,

Your observations would hold true in my area. In fact it would hold true at many small colleges.

SBK,
I watched one of our HS pitchers throw against the only team to beat Chatsworth (last year's national champs) HS this year. He did quite well and he did fairly well against good teams as a junior. A showcase company showed him as topping out at 81 mph with only slight downward movement and a good slider last year. When I watched him pitch it looked like he was throwing smoke. He was probably throwing low 80s at most.

When I played against Mike Scott in HS in the early 70s I doubt very much he was throwing more than mid 80s and he was dominant. Of course we were using wood bats.

You dont have to go to a HS game to see what a pitcher can do when he can locate his fb and his off speed pitches. There are a ton of College "pitchers" that do this everyday. High School pitchers that have a good fb not dominate but can locate it and have a quality off speed pitch that they can locate and throw at anytime in the count with success can dominate a HS team.

CaDAD your right maybe...... I overstated at 83 ...thats pretty fast.

I have an 8th grader throwing high 70's low 80's but is not on a very good high school could he get noticed if he is at a bad school?

SF GIANTS,
Yes. If he progresses well, he could be a good pitcher. He'll get some notice at any school. However, if he isn't facing top notch competition scouts and schools would like to see him against strong competition. That's where showcases and summer teams come into play. There are a lot of articles and a lot of information on here that can help you with the process.

quote:

Originally posted by rbinaz:
I gun every pitcher I see at HS games and I see a lot....almost 50 games already this year.
Trust me when I say this: there are many more HS pitchers in the 70s than there are in the mid 80s.
My son is in the 8th grade and turned 14 2 weeks ago. He sits in the 74-76 range comfortably and that is way above average at 14U. We have 2 14U kids in the area (one the Baseball America POY last year)that hit 80 on my stalker this past weekend. That is exceptional.
I can't tell you how many people tell me about this kid or that kid that "must be in the upper 80s" and is in reality 81-83. Don't believe most of what you hear and you will be ahead of the game.

rbinaz:

My son is also an 8th grader in Tempe. Chances are we've seen our kids throw against each other. I also coach a 14U club team of Tempe kids. I don't really care how hard 4thgen is throwing as long as his command and composure is good. I've seen only one 14U kid throw in the mid-80's and right now with his back troubles I don't think he could be the one you gunned. I'd be curious who the other is?

I haven't seen any 14U kids who hit mid 80's around here. The player you are referring to (I think) has hit 81 for me one time and is usually 78-80. I've probably gunned him 10 times in the last 6 months.
I sent you a PM.

rbinaz,
The only HS game I've seen lately did have both pitchers throwing 87 to 89 and both hit 90 once during the one inning they were gunned. I saw one of our websters at the game with a stalker and asked him later what the pitchers were throwing. Just to confirm how things get exaggerated I saw an article later saying that both pitchers were throwing into the low 90s.

Of course I went to the game knowing that there were going to be some pretty good pitchers throwing. I was hoping to see the webster's son throw but wasn't smart enough to go watch him throw in the pen and the game ended before he got a chance to come in.

CADAD, similar thing here. Our 5A championship featured one of the top 2007 arms in the country. I've seen him as high as 93 but on Saturday he was 88-89 and showed 90 at times.
The paper reported him as being 94 and made it sound like he sat there the whole game.

Most of the 14-15's in the area here in NH run in the high-60-low70. Occaisional mid-70

Here in Southern NH and we had 2 8th graders last year in the area that threw 80+.

One threw 78-81, the other 81-83. Have timed the first guy only once this year and he was 79-82. He told players that he has hit 87 but was no where near that when I timed him.

2nd player that threw 81-83 last year is now Freshman, he’s 15yrs 5-months at runs 82-85 and hit 86-87 few times per game. I have timed him many times this season.

Have only timed a few Upperclassman in NH Class-L (large school) that cruise over 80 this year.

quote:

Originally posted by rbinaz:
CADAD, similar thing here. Our 5A championship featured one of the top 2007 arms in the country. I've seen him as high as 93 but on Saturday he was 88-89 and showed 90 at times.
The paper reported him as being 94 and made it sound like he sat there the whole game.

I was at a game early in the season where a scout had that kid at 94 for a high and 91-92 on most fastballs. Perhaps he just wore down as the season went along.

quote:

I was at a game early in the season where a scout had that kid at 94 for a high and 91-92 on most fastballs. Perhaps he just wore down as the season went along.

I was probably at that game too as I've seen similar numbers on the kid. I've seen him 5 times this spring and a number of times last fall and summer as well. You have to understand that its not uncommon to see signinficant variation in velocity from outing to outing and at different times of the year.This particular pitcher is normally in the 88-90 cruising range which was consistently as high as anyone in the state (despite what you may read in the media).

quote:

Originally posted by rbinaz:

quote:

I was at a game early in the season where a scout had that kid at 94 for a high and 91-92 on most fastballs. Perhaps he just wore down as the season went along.

I was probably at that game too as I've seen similar numbers on the kid. I've seen him 5 times this spring and a number of times last fall and summer as well. You have to understand that its not uncommon to see signinficant variation in velocity from outing to outing and at different times of the year.This particular pitcher is normally in the 88-90 cruising range which was consistently as high as anyone in the state (despite what you may read in the media).

Agreed about the variance from start to start or week to week. In addition I agree that concern about lighting up the gun is overblown. The hitters will let you know if someone is throwing hard.

As it relates to this subject, average speed for a 14 or 15 year old, it makes even less sense to get hung up on. Pitchers at this stage should be concerned with perfecting mechanics, getting stronger, (actually more poerful), and staying healthy. That is the path to maximizing potential, whatever it is, as a HS player.

In our 1st Sectional game on wed. we came in as the top dog, with the other teams ace (either Ace or Number 2 guy) being sophmore shwowing 85-87 on the gun. The only problem was he couldn't hit his spots. This kid was VERY tall and muscular though. He walked the first batter then the next two got HR's and then we batted around and the Lead Off man got a Grand Slam. The pitcher on the other team left with only getting 2 outs. So i guess what im trying to say is it doesn't matter how fast you throw if you can't hit your spots. We won 14-3.


plp556

This kid from Lincoln, Nebraska is throwing in the mid 80's right now and hes only a sophomore, his goal is to hit 90 by next spring. Check out his website at Seanyost.com

plp556- where exactly r u in NY?

as for avg. speed, I doubt it is even that high for freshman. I am a freshman LHP and 5'9" 151 lbs. and sit around 73-75, and have been clocked as high as 78 but some people say I can throw it 80, nonetheless I've never done it. It's rare to find another freshman around here throwing that hard, and I have seen 2 all season, which was mostly spent on JV before being the only freshman moved up to varsity. One sat in the upper 70's and was a LHP with a sharp curve, and was just slightly bigger than me, however I believe he just hurt his arm (so I've heard; he threw way too many curves). The other was a 6'2" 190 lbs. freshman who sat low 80's and could probably hit 85. We didn't really hit him, though I got a hit myself since it was pretty fast.

At the varsity level, the average speed around here is probably around 80, maybe just under. It is rare to find guys higher than 85, and lower than 76. There's a few guys who break 90, but I've never faced them myself. Once again, as of right now I haven't seen many freshman throw harder than me (at least at my size) and I have just started to work out. So I doubt 73-73 is average mph for a freshman, unless Southern Cal is THAT much better than NY

I live in the Saratoga Region.

i have not been gunned yet this year but last year i was gunned as an 8th grader and i was throwing around 83, i was doing this with all arm strength and no lower body push, if anyone has tips so i could get some more drive and momentum please email me it would help my speed greatly and help me save my arm, my email is Littlebro101010@comcast.net, please email tips

Hey guys, I am 12 years old, about 100 lbs and can throw 61 MPH. I was wondering if this is good for my age and i wanted to know some ways to improve it. By the way, i am only 5'5

Josh H.,
Parts of SoCal can be pretty good. I was just talking to the coach of our Pony 13A team and he gunned his pitchers at 1. 79 mph, 2. 76 mph, 3. 73 mph, 4. & 5. 69 mph. These were max speeds. I believe 2. is going into 9th grade and the others are going into 8th grade. Our Pony 13B team has one pitcher throwing 69 to 70 max w/ good movement and one throwing 70 to 71 max. One will be a freshman the other will be an 8th grader. They'll probably all be cruising somewhere around their current max speed next year. My guess is that the 1. and 2. won't be playing freshman ball when they are freshman. 1. will probably go straight to varsity as a 15yo freshman and 2. will probably go to JV as a 14 yo freshman. The others will cruise up to the low 70s as freshmen.

For all you young pitchers---don't worry about your velocity so much--be cocncerned with good mechanics, ball movement and pitch location---doesn't matter very much if you throw harder than the next guy but you dont get guys out

I was talking to a friend who played some pro ball last night. When he was playing JC ball he went out and was throwing well in front of scouts, getting people out. No interest. His coach told him that the next time he threw in front of scouts he'd better throw harder so he did. He didn't pitch as well but he got interest and eventually was signed.

Back then we were told if you couldn't throw 85 don't even bother. Nowadays it is the same although with the new guns that 85 mph fastball would read 88.

You've got to be able to pitch or you won't help your team and won't be a pitcher. Eventually if your goal is to stay in baseball you'll also have to be able to throw hard enough to generate interest. Once you're signed they'll tell you to how to pitch and only results will matter.

There was another important part of his question that I will give a good tip for other players that are hard throwers but not sure if they are pitching material. Tell the coach you can play 3B. If you can, this will open up a lot of oportunities to you that being a medium level pitcher will not.

What is cruising speed? My 13 yr. old can throw almost 80 but that is a fastball.Kids seem to be able to hit the fastball sometimes, but have a real hard time with the curve that he throws and it is slower.So,what is more important speed or the type of pitches?

Lambmom,
Cruising speed is the speed a pitcher normally throws at and can control his pitches. Typically a pitcher's cruising speed is about 4 or 5 mph less than his maximum speed.

For example, my son maxes out at about 70 mph, can throw hard somewhere around the strike zone at about 67 to 68 mph and cruises at about 65 mph. If we were to gun him in a game most of his fastballs would be at about 65 mph. We'd also see some fastballs at 67 and 68 and a few at 70 or below 65.

If a pitcher can locate his fastball, and can throw an off speed pitch for strikes then he's got the minimum necessary to be a pitcher. From there the harder he can throw and still locate the fastball and mix in that off speed pitch, the better.

CaDad

Wow thats pretty quick for such a young age how big are those kids you're talking about.

I just finished up my summer season with the Westchester Wolfpack 18u team. I'm only 15, but i played up most of the guys r in college. I've had a few college scouts approach me (before learning my age) saying I'm mid-upper 70s in some tournaments weve been to. i was supposed to go to east cobb and several perfect game tourneys with another team but cracked a rib in june after being hit by a mike wanamaker fastball @ 93 mph... hes going to BC and was drafted by the pirates i think.
Just wanted to get a gauge of how my progress is versus other kids throughout the country. baseball in Westchester County, NY isnt exactly top notch, and I've always dreamed of Stanford/hopefully pros later on, and want to see me against everyone else... im a lhp and about 5'9" 158 by the way

I think it is too early to project. Let him get to HS first.

Also don't focus on the velocity, he'll do enough of it on his own. IMO your job is to protect his arm making sure that he doesn't throw too many innings for travel ball etc...doesn't go out and throw alot the day after he pitches (if at all) ice down etc...and that he has good mechanics.

The above with growth and maturity as well as building body strength and conditioning will put him in the right direction.

DadofPlayer

It really is too early to project... velocity isn't really the main concern, especially in high school. My summer team just beat a kid from North Carolina 8-2. Kid threw 95 tops and we lit him up (wood bat by the way) because that's all he had. 2 days later we faced a guy from Canada who hit 82 tops twice and he shut us out. Velocity is the most overrated thing in baseball.

Don't worry about the velocity focus on mechanics and arm strength. Your kid seems fine in his size, and velocity seems average. If all goes well he should be throwing in the 80s in high school. But really, you never know. You have to be smart, long toss builds arm strength the most probably. I was invited to take BP with the Yankees and long tossed with Sheffield for a few minutes. Easily the greatest thing for your arm, although you should definitely be smart about it cause I tried to keep up with Gary's distance and ended up with a sore arm that night. So be smart, and your son will be fine.

Josh H.,
The two hardest throwers are about 5'11" and 6'. One of them was the kid who won the US championship game in the LLWS last year, throwing most of his fastballs at 70-71 mph. He was 5'10" at the time.

My 13 year old was trying out for select team next summer (15U) for after HS freshman year. They had him on the gun at 72mph consistently but the thing that got the most interest was him hitting his spots at that speed. He has good fundamental mechanics but I am wondering what will the difference be once he has his first real year of baseball everyday at high school. Supposedly this is the year that everyone really improves dramatically. Is that true based on all the experience on this board? I am already very proud of what he has been able to accomplish. Can't wait to see what happens next.

1ByU-

At this point, it seems as though your son is fine. From your description he has nothing to worry about. As for development in different players, it happens at different times. I know people who were 5'9" and throwing 75 mph. at the age of 12 and are still 5'9" and throwing low-80's and they are seniors in high school. I myself began development from 7th to 8th grade (I am now in 10th). In 7th grade I threw maybe low-60's, 8th I threw low-70's. Now I pop 80, and have just started to lift weights (I am a lefty pitcher). I am not aware of the size of your son or where he is in delevopment, but from my past experiences, if your son continues to hit his spots and miz the ball in and out, up and down and changes speeds, he'll do just fine.

I know this thread has been dead for a while, but ill give my input anyways. I went to a NC State Camp in early December for ages 13-18. Top Speed was 89 by a 6-3 Right Handed Senior. The 13 year olds were in the high 50's to low 60's at the fastest. I got the fastest speed for anyone 14. I hit 80 but that was 8 mph faster than any other 14's. Most were 70-72 and we were knowingly throwing for a gun, so I know these were max speeds. I think one 15 yr old hit 82. Most 14 and 15 yr olds were about the same max 14's (70-72) and 15's (71-74). Most of the kids at the camp were talented, and were there to show State what they had, not necessarily to learn. Im 5-8, but I think usually the bigger kids throw harder, but physical maturity matters alot.

its not hard you throw right now its how hard you throw it 3-4 years when you are a senior in hs, and 5-7 years when you are in college ready to get drafted

Thought I would put out an update. Its been 2 years since I posted on my brother when he was a sophomore and now he's a Freshman in College. But he's hitting 92,93 now so thats not bad for throwing mid 80's his sophomore year in High School.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
For all you young pitchers---don't worry about your velocity so much--be cocncerned with good mechanics, ball movement and pitch location---doesn't matter very much if you throw harder than the next guy but you dont get guys out

What he said

quote:

Originally posted by J H:
DadofPlayer
Velocity is the most overrated thing in baseball.

Don't worry about the velocity focus on mechanics and arm strength.

With all due respect, this is a contradiction. It also sends the wrong message. Eventually, if you don't have velocity you will be cut. Maybe not from the high school team, but certainly at the college level. Sorry, you have to have velocity.

If you have proper mechanics and arm strength, you will have velocity. And the best way to develop arm strength is through long-toss.

If you young players want to throw faster, you need the arm speed. Throwing on a consistent basis to maximum distance (using the Jaeger program) and combining this with a good mechanical instruction and conditioning program is the way to go.

speed isn't always the most important thing while pitching or throwing from long distances. from what i have learned, there is mainly 2 strong things to look at if your pitching. 1st is control. is you can throw 95 and dont have control. youd be lucky if your better than somyone who throws 65 or so. the average complete speed whether your good or bad is about 66-67. 70 is a bit high for average. 75 is jv. and freshman throwing 80 mph IS possible but extremely difficult. people say as freshman"i could throw 85 to 87" thats urban legions and complete lies. i think the fastest freshman would top maybe 83 or so. with speed and control at your side, you will strike most people out.

quote:

Originally posted by baseball pitching:
is you can throw 95 and dont have control. youd be lucky if your better than somyone who throws 65 or so.

baseball pitching, first of all.. welcome to HSBBW! But my goodness, you were kidding right?

Anyone that throws 95 must have some degree of mechanical refinement otherwise his arm would blow-out right quickly. I guarantee you, if you throw 95 any scout in his right mind would be all over you regardless if you couldn't find the strike zone with a pair of binoculars. They'll work on the strike zone part later.

Here's my point. Be obsessed with velocity. Maybe not at 14 but certainly at 16+. Outstanding velocity goes hand in hand with good mechanics. So it's a case of "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" argument. If you work on mechanics, your velocity will improve. The concepts are not mutually exclusive.

while i agree velocity is important. there are a lot of guy's that threw 95 that never made it.( not high school player's ).

getting guy's out is a pitchers job. do your job and you'll go far.

90's get you drafted, getting guy's out keeps you there. imho.

Welcome BP:

Listen to BUM he is spot on.

My son just came off his freshmen season last year and I don't have my log book here at work, but from my memory. (Stalker)

Top Freshmen: Cruise 74-76; 78 Max (2 of them all season)

Ave Freshmen: 70-72 (league play top 1-2 kids on teams)
Others : 67-70

JV: Top one I saw 78-80 (82)

Ave: 75-76

I have heard that there were 1-2 freshmen kids in out county throwing over 80, but I never got a gun on them.

I always bring up the mcdsguy/HSBBW rule when velocity comes up "ask dad subtract 7" trust me it is surprisingly accurate.

Continue to work hard on velocity, it is the keys to the kingdom.

Just for more information, not to make a point. My son is a 15 yr. old freshman. This fall on my Juggs, he started out in 1st inning throwing 78-79. His last two pitches (#72&73) were 81-82 for a strikeout. Took him out after that due to fall season pitch count. Take a couple mph off for Juggs vs. Stalker and he's around 80 for the fall. Hope you don't want to subtract 7 from that for "Daddy reading".

Very nice BUM, you hit the nail on the head. Believe it or not. I once had a 12 year old player that threw upper 70's, and was clocked in the AABC world series in Puerto Rico at 81 on several pitches with the Dallas Texans when he was still 12, granted it was a Jugs gun (hairdryer), but the kid threw hard as any 12 year old that have yet to see to this day.

The kid never played an inning of high school ball, his dad would take him out on game days and throw him 40-80 pitches before they ever got to the park, Dad's motto: Throw harder, never worked mechanics, dad had very little knowledge.

The kid developed elbow problems when he was 13. Took a year off from pitching. When he was 14 we used him in limited closing situations only, dad was not happy. Not pitching him enough. Been with me for seven years. I let him know his pitching workload would not change. He pulled the kid off the team, went to Little League, pitched every game till the end of the Summer, blew up his elbow, that was it.

Chalk one up for dear old dads!

I went back and read this thread and it certainly brought back some memories for me. The freshman are now freshman in college. The soph just completed his second year in milb. Man where does the time go?

The fresh rhp from my first post went to NC State as a corner inf / of / rhp. He was 88-91 for us his sr year. The fresh catcher went to UNC. The soph pitcher was drafted out of hs and is with Tampa at the A ball level. His sr year he as 90-93.

All three worked very hard. I was a lot better coach when we had them in our program.

I understand the motivation of 14 y.o. pitchers -- and fathers of 14 y.o. pitchers -- to want to know their son's velocity. I went through the same thought process myself with my son at that time. After all, these kids are looking to get a spot on the high school team, so they feel they need to know.

I found velocity very important in determining whom coaches pitch as freshmen in high school. When Bum, Jr. was a freshman, there was one kid that maybe threw 1-2 M.P.H. faster, and he was also a big kid (3-sport star). Bum, Jr.'s advantage was that he was a LHP--and had pretty good velocity as well, maybe 70-72. As the years went by, he worked very hard on velocity and became the ace of each school and Summer team he played on. And some of you know where he's at today with hard work. The big kid? He dropped out of baseball, blew out his knee playing basketball.. but that's another story.

If you're 14 y.o., or the parent of a 14 y.o., I will give you the advise I have given others: Velocity is not the show. It is the ticket to the show. You must be obsessed with velocity, but you must be equally obsessed with the art of pitching. Again, the concepts are not mutually exclusive. However, please don't think that, if you don't have superstar velocity at 14 y.o. you can't get it if you work your tail off. Some kids get it later. Some never get it. There's no rhyme nor reason to this thing.

So.. now that you know velocity is important, what are you going to do about it? How are you going to go get it?

Just to give you a comparison to me who is a 14 year old freshmen in high school who is 5'll 140 pounds. I can throw about 80 mph mid to high 70s consitently. The thing about high school baseball is that speed isn't a huge factor because, the batters are sometimes bigger than you for instance seniors. You have to keep them off balance with off speed pitches with your fastball. But it is always fun to know how fast you throw especially if it is fast.

Just to add my two cents. I never put a radar gun on my son but last year another dad had one during the 13 year old all star tournament and had my son pretty consistanly in the 68mph range. My kid was/is pretty big and strong at that point I would say he was 5'9 155lbs. Now he is 5'11 and 165lbs but I don't think he is throwing as hard, as our pitching coach has him more focused on spots.

As a side note, in league play he is pretty fast compared to the other kids, but we went to some fairly high level tournaments in 2007 and 2008 and I would say he was a 6 or 7 on a scale one(slow) to ten(fast). In regional all-star games he is probably a 8.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
14 yo average cruising speed would be about 65 mph. Average freshman pitcher (14 to 15yo) cruising speed would be about 70 mph. Average cruising speed for a good HS pitching prospect at 14 to 15 yo would be about 75 mph. That will usually get a freshman pitcher onto the JV assuming reasonable pitching ability to go along with the velocity. Cruising at 80 mph as a freshman would be a potential star. Cruising at 85 mph as a freshman is maybe one in the entire country each year.

Our highschool has an 8th grader(young 14) starting varsity and was REPORTEDLY throwing 82 at the start of the season.

quote:

Originally posted by tfox:

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
14 yo average cruising speed would be about 65 mph. Average freshman pitcher (14 to 15yo) cruising speed would be about 70 mph. Average cruising speed for a good HS pitching prospect at 14 to 15 yo would be about 75 mph. That will usually get a freshman pitcher onto the JV assuming reasonable pitching ability to go along with the velocity. Cruising at 80 mph as a freshman would be a potential star. Cruising at 85 mph as a freshman is maybe one in the entire country each year.

Our highschool has an 8th grader(young 14) starting varsity and was REPORTEDLY throwing 82 at the start of the season.

It happens. When my son played 14U one kid who was 13U eligible cruised in the low 80's. He was 6'2". Robert Stock, now at USC hit 90 when he was fourteen. But this stuff is not close to normal.

I agree.Talking to people that know this kid,he works constantly on pitching.He sits at home and works with tools to build arm strength etc.

He is one of those rare kids that is just a great athlete(in all things sport) but he puts in the time to go with that naturall ability.

My son, a freshman LHP is 6'3" 190 lbs. He 'cruises' at 82-83. He tops at 86-87. He's also thick as a brick. His favorite word is 'what' pronounced wwwhhhhattt????

He doesn't take out the garbage until he's reminded at LEAST three times. He has a 4.0+ GPA (I've lost faith in the school system).

Personally, I think a lot of this measurement stuff is over rated. You all probably have kids who can mow the lawn or take out the garbage the FIRST time they're asked. That's outstanding. You have a lot less work to do than I.

Some freshmen are 5'2" on their way to 6'3". Their velocity will be different than my kid, who is 6'3" on his way to 6'3". Probably not as much upside for mine.

Keep developing them and let them bloom.

If you can get them to take out the garbage or mow the lawn along the way, more power to you!

quote:

Some freshmen are 5'2" on their way to 6'3".

A friend of mine entered high school at 5'6" hoping to make the freshman team. He graduated from an SEC school as a 6'4" All-American. He made it as far as AAA. He said in high school it never crossed his mind he would become a pro pitcher.

quote:

Originally posted by JMoff:
My son, a freshman LHP is 6'3" 190 lbs. He 'cruises' at 82-83. He tops at 86-87. He's also thick as a brick. His favorite word is 'what' pronounced wwwhhhhattt????

He doesn't take out the garbage until he's reminded at LEAST three times. He has a 4.0+ GPA (I've lost faith in the school system).

Personally, I think a lot of this measurement stuff is over rated. You all probably have kids who can mow the lawn or take out the garbage the FIRST time they're asked. That's outstanding. You have a lot less work to do than I.

Some freshmen are 5'2" on their way to 6'3". Their velocity will be different than my kid, who is 6'3" on his way to 6'3". Probably not as much upside for mine.

Keep developing them and let them bloom.

If you can get them to take out the garbage or mow the lawn along the way, more power to you!

Great post,I can still put a hand on the backside of mine and will but it still takes 3-4 times to get him to get in the shower or take out the garbage.He is a black belt and I suspect in about 2 years,he may be able to take me behind the wood shed. I keep telling him,the day he can whip my but is the day he can/will move out.

As a freshamn I was in the high 60's- low 70's. This year I was in the high 70's-low 80's. At this pace I can be throwing 100+ mph by senior year!



I can dream, can't I?

quote:

Great post,I can still put a hand on the backside of mine and will but it still takes 3-4 times to get him to get in the shower or take out the garbage.He is a black belt and I suspect in about 2 years,he may be able to take me behind the wood shed. I keep telling him,the day he can whip my but is the day he can/will move out

As I grew my father would joke there will be a day where respect sets in or he would be in physical trouble with me. One day in high school I forgot about respect and took a shot at my dad. Before I knew what hit me I was on the floor wrapped up like a pretzel. He inflicted just enough pain as to not injure me. My dad glared at me and laughed in a not funny way, "You just chose to mess with a WWII Marine vet trained in hand to hand combat. Bad decision"

Even though I knew my father was a great athlete, I couldn't picture a guy who put on a suit five days a week and drank martinis being that tough. Maybe they were the greatest generation for what they lived through. There was never another issue with respect.

Your father has great respect and admiration from me for the sacrifices he made for this country.

Problem with my situation,my son is the one being trained in TKO and I weigh 140#'s and 5'9".

You always want to work on your velocity, but that shouldn't be your main concern at that age 14 and 15 because all grow into their bodies at different times. I was one of the fastest pitchers until that age and was probably the slowest then. About 16 on I was one of the fastest pitchers again. Work on lengthening your stride and gathering more momentum to home plate. You can Check out www.simplifiedpitching.com for more information.

My son just turned 15. He throws harder than most his age. I see most competitive 8th and 9th graders in the 70-78 range. My son is consistently 79-81 and has hit 83-84 a few times. It's a lot more important at these ages to throw to spots and change speeds.

Well these speeds make me feel better. You get used to playing a certain level of competition for so long that you expect that to be the norm.

At the 14U PG tournament last week PG's guns were reading 75-79 consistantly for 5 or 6 of our 13U pitchers (2 leftys). About half are rising 8th graders. Hopefully they can pick up a few MPH before their 9th grade year.

I agree with hitting your spots, though. You know what you call a 100 mph pitch thrown outside the strike zone? Ball 1.

Hey, just took the time to read the observations and comments gathered over the years. Hope I'm not repeating what has already been addressed, but trying to get a handle on where my son is at.
First off, he won't be 15 until December and just starting freshman year of HS. We're still waiting for a serious growth spurt - probably only 5-6 and 120 pounds.
He's never had a gun on him before, but last week he went to a travel ball tryout and maxed out at 72 mph. Probably cruises 6-7 mph less in games, though has excellent control, keeps the ball down and keeps hitters off balance - lot of pop ups and ground balls.
How does this 72 mph translate for his current physical size? And how does additional size project to future velocity?
Despite what folks are saying here, the physical late-bloomer who ends up being the ace down the road, my worry is the HS coach come this spring will look first to the 6-ft, 170 pounder freshmen.

Jayhook:

He is right in there for velocity for a HS Freshmen. When my son was a Fr the top velocity I saw was 78,(Stalker-toward the end of the season) and average around 70, some a little more some a little less. The top pitchers were working 72-75 typically. There will be large variations in the Fr and Soph years depending on when they hit their growth spurt.

Feel comfortable with where he is at. Just hope coach won't be turned off by lack of physical maturity this spring and be smart enough to recognize it's coming. In the meantime, praying for a nice growth spurt for Xmas.

I would suggest your guy works hard and learns to pitch as well as work on arm conditioning.
My son coaches a travel team in Charleston SC and had a 12yo stalking at 78mph. Who know what will happen with him.
Years ago I watched 2 15yos who were consistently in the 90s. One topped at 92. Their P coach was a 15year veteran Detroit Tiger pitcher. I am not sure if they survived to play college or pro.
Forget the size issue. As the old saying goes control what you can control. Other wise you will torture yourself for nothing.

quote:

Originally posted by jayhook:
Hey, just took the time to read the observations and comments gathered over the years. Hope I'm not repeating what has already been addressed, but trying to get a handle on where my son is at.
First off, he won't be 15 until December and just starting freshman year of HS. We're still waiting for a serious growth spurt - probably only 5-6 and 120 pounds.
He's never had a gun on him before, but last week he went to a travel ball tryout and maxed out at 72 mph. Probably cruises 6-7 mph less in games, though has excellent control, keeps the ball down and keeps hitters off balance - lot of pop ups and ground balls.
How does this 72 mph translate for his current physical size? And how does additional size project to future velocity?
Despite what folks are saying here, the physical late-bloomer who ends up being the ace down the road, my worry is the HS coach come this spring will look first to the 6-ft, 170 pounder freshmen.

jayhook, I'd say your son is pretty much on track. Different kids throw different for their body size. I have seen huge kids throw slow and little kids throw hard. But, for his size, I would say he throws pretty good. Should be fine for freshman team as long as he can hit his spots and change speed. Teams are always looking for pitching and as long as he is effective, he will have a spot.

We've been trying to get submissions to a self monitored survey on the subject of all kinds of measurements. Not sure what the HSWeb policy is on point to other sites/pages but I'll mention the submission form here in hopes we get some new numbers. Note - mostly it's reserved for team managers of the teams hosted on WebBall so I can't promise how long we'll allow this to show to everyone... thru October 09 for sure ...http://www.webball.com/cms/page2342.cfm

Richard, you should send MN-Mom (Julie) a PM and discuss with her your posting on the site and referencing yours when appropriate.

You have a wealth of information and can be a great asset to posters and readers here. I refer people to your site all of the time.

Work out the guidliness with Julie first so you start out on the right foot.

Welcome!

I am 13 yr old pitcher in missouri and i pitch 70 mph, that was clocked on a radar gun, another kid on my team can pitch up to 75 mph clocked by a radar gun.

Don't worry about velocity right now. Concentrate on proper mechanics and form. Get some good pitching instruction if you can. Develop your body. Do core,legs(where your power comes from) and arm-shoulder-rotator cuff exercises. Velocity will come.If you try to light up the radar gun now you are probably going to injure your arm. Also, NO CURVEBALLS.

I have never seen a pitcher come out of a game injured after a radar gun was used. Has anyone here?

Sure. Happens all the time in MLB. Must have been the radar illuminating the arms that caused the injury.

I really don't think that trying to throw for the gun causes injury. Overuse is far more often the culprit. This kind of goes back to the old thing about showcases causing injuries because the kids tend to throw for the gun at showcases. I just haven't seen that to be the case. Now if a kid showcases without adequate rest after pitching for his school team or pitches for his school team without adequate rest after showcasing then there's certainly increased risk of injury. That isn't because they showcased or tried to throw for the gun. That's because of overuse.

There's always a tiny bit more risk if you throw a bit harder but just hoping that growth and maturity will result in reaching one's fastball potential if a pitcher never pushes the envelope is pretty risky.

My max speed when I was a freshman was 81 and was accurate and my pitches moved. But I still got cut. Then again I am like one of the youngest in my grade. But that proves the 2nd post wrong

quote:

Originally posted by Billybobjoe3:
My max speed when I was a freshman was 81 and was accurate and my pitches moved. But I still got cut.

You can move to our school. Really. Like this weekend.

I've read most of the comments and they're ridiculous.

The average pitching speed for a grade 9 is between 66-72

The fastest I've seen so far for a grade 9 is 82, and he's a freak.

The good pitchers in my league are throwing 74-77, with none above that other than 2 guys.

 

A grade 8 thats 14, average speed is 60-66

So if you're throwing 70 you're well ahead of the game.

 

Then a grade 10 is anywhere from 75-81

With the fastest thrower in the league above me touching 86, and as before, he's a freak.

 

 

As a grade 9 right now I'm topping out at 77 and cruising at 75-76, and not being arrogant, but I'm one of the top pitchers in the league.

James ... Why don't you learn more about this board before you make rude comments about people you know nothing about. This is not your typical high school board. Many of the poster's kids on this board had exceptional high school pitching careers and went on to pitch in college and pro ball. Many of them were ahead of the curve by freshman year of high school. Many of them attended large high schools where the talent and competition was fierce. When my son was in high school if a freshman pitcher didn't throw at least 70 if he was lucky he might be asked to throw batting practice. Because that's what he would be if he pitched in a game. Any soph not throwing 80 would be close to the end of the line on JV unless he got over 80 by the next year. My son cruised 83 as a soph. He had the fourth highest velocity on varsity. In some schools in TX, FL and CA anyone throwing 83 wouldn't be considered a pitcher.

Cruising at 76 and topping out at 77? Cause that makes sense. 

James,

 

Not sure what exposure you have had to elite competition, however calling folks ridiculous may be a little much.  9th grade is year 2017, ....BFS Jr just returned from WWBA a few weeks ago for 2017's and upper 70's were a dime a dozen...a few sat upper 80's and we played against one team that had a kiddo hit 90.  Jr. Is one of 4 on his team that sits 80's....here is the funny thing....those who threw mid 80's straight but could not "pitch" on the black or spin it, got hammered.  

 

Just  got back this wknd from a showcase that was well attended by Big 12 schools...mainly 2015's....  Jr.'s team is 2017.... velo was important, but again if you can't "pitch" it gets you out of the game soon....My point....yes 80's as a 9th grader is becoming more common place, however if you can't locate and change speeds, it means little.....too many people want to match radar readings....only important if you have the rest of the package.....

My 2018 is cruising 85-87.... BB is 78-79..... he's the varsity closer this season.... has thrown 22 innings, striking out 49 and has yet to give up a run. Invited to Area Code the other day.....

 

 

 

An important aspect when asking about velocity at a certain age is considering physical maturity. My son was 5'11" 135 as a freshman. He was 6'1" 170 as a senior. His velocity was much greater after getting bigger and stronger.

If I remember correctly, bacdorslider's youngest is a pretty big kid, at least compared to my 5'11", 155lb 2018. I would say a Frosh velo at 85-87 is not among the average. I think 70-75 would be more average.

 

Bacdor, you have a great four years ahead of you with your 2018. Good luck!

My son's teammate throws hard.  

 

 

http://www.latimes.com/sports/...-20140801-story.html

This is exactly right. 2019Son's teammate who is touching 80 throws really, really hard for an 8th grader. OTOH, he doesn't throw exceptionally hard for a 6'1" 190 lb. kid . . .

       
       
Come on 2019 you know better than that.  My son is a 6'1" 7th grader 6'2" in shoes.  He doesn't throw 80.  80 is phenomenal for ANY 8th grader.  If anything the big kids are at a serious DISADVANTAGE.  Of course I would love my son to get to 6'5" or more.  But in a way i can't wait for him to stop growing, get his coordination and grow his adult muscle.  An 8th grader is a kid.  Regardless of size he just doesn't have that adult type muscle a 16 thru 18 may have.  And some get it even in college.  Throwing 80 in 8th grade is an outstanding accomplishment.  Kudos to that kid.

I take it james is long gone...  but for the record gunning pitchers is sort of my hobby at tournaments between my son's games.  I go around gunning all ages.  James was a little on the low side.  8th graders throwing 60-66 would get lit up like a christmas tree.  James obviously did not play the good travel circuit.  Of course what is average depends on what level.  If you are talking big time travel/showcase kind of stuff pushing 80 for an 8th grader probably is about average.  My experience is with the best of the regular travel teams.   Mostly USSSA.  average 8th grader right around upper 60's to low 70's.   However good 8th grade pitchers more toward mid to upper 70's.   Phenominal ones 80+

 2018 was 83 as 8th grader, 87 as freshman, he is 6'2 165   PG scout has him top 50 in nation.....who knows if he will continue to make velo jumps. his brothers are 6'4 and 6'5

 

But you have to have grades, attitude, coachable, location, control, repeatability....

       
       
Grades yes.  And I am sure your son has the rest but even if he didn't there would be a lot of takers at those numbers.  Truth is he may never make it to college.  It's stylish now a days to downgrade velocity.  But ask yourself how many kids throwing 90+ in high school (who have the grades) do not get picked up in the draft or by D1's?   I am guessing it would be a short list.

I would agree with this. And bacdoorslider's post makes the point more concretely -- 83 as an 8th grader is now the next year one of the top 50 freshmen in the country.

 

My point about physical maturity -- actually, it was RJM's point -- was more about weight than height. The 8th grader who is 5'10" 135 lbs. and throwing 75 may have more projection than the 8th grader who is 6'1" 190 lbs. and throwing 80 . . . Of course, individual situations will vary, but physical maturity is a big factor at this age, IMHO.

Part of physical maturity is coordination and muscle.  I know this is personal for me because it has always been hard on my son.  He has hit clean up (not every single game ever of course but most) for every team he has played on since he was 9.  No matter what he does it is never enough.  He should hit more homers than he does.  He should throw 80 not 70 etc.  HE IS A KID just like the other kids.  He is on track to be 80+ as a freshman.  That's fine with me.  He wants to play D1 someday.  I hope he does.  But I don't want him to think that just because.he is big he has to be a freak of nature and throw 80 in 7th grade.  I will take low 70's thank you very much!  Its not all a bowl of cherries for the big kids.  It comes with a lot of pressure.  He took his first 0 for last night and we won a squeker.  But you know there were at least a few thinking where was our cleanup hitter when we needed him?  Fortunately my son is a happy kid on a baseball field and handles it well.

Having unashamedly gunned almost every varsity pitcher I have seen (yeah, yeah...I'm "that" guy) I can chime in with the following. For freshmen (limited to freshmen pitching varsity) you're looking at a norm of 74-78 mph. I would imagine freshmen at sub-varsity to be a little lower. Now, you have your outliers like BDS's kid or, in fact a freshman here in Colorado, Tanner O'Tremba who bats cleanup as a freshman on the #1 team in the highest classification of the state. That kid has 4 home runs this season. He's not even really a pitcher, but took the mound a few times this season and PBR scouts gunned him at 87mph, cruising at 84-85.

Despite the idea you may get from boards like this, which are generally populated by parents of the top kids, 80's as a frosh is fairly rare.

This is the funny thing about recruiting/scouting. What you say makes perfect sense. Yet, the only time you see the phrase "projectable" in baseball recruiting is when it is attached to the analysis of very tall kids.

I would say from what I have seen through the years.... 14-15 yr old velo is not crazy important.  Honestly , 2018 is not the norm.... he has a gifted arm.  He should be mid 90's as a sr... I would say D1 , outside chance draft.... bu.t still too early to know anything

 

BUT

 

My 2013 was 77 as an 8th grader , 81 as a freshman,  83 as a soph , 84 as a sr.... 85 as a freshman (juco)  87-88 as a soph (juco)  has mad movement , location, and work ethic.... he's going to Tennessee Tech next season.....  years of hard work, and people telling him he was not good enough...

 

My point is you do not know yet.... too many factors.... BTW 2013 is 2018's pitching coach

 

Velo is important.... it gets the scouts to show up.... but 0's on the scoreboard keep you on the mound.

 

Heaving had 4 sons at this age, and they are all different... put your son in the best league you can where he can succeed... work on all aspects of pitching, play to your strengths... work on the weakness...

Excellent point...

       
       
Looks like the mph after freshman year were a grind.  Did he stop growing early?  Was he on a pitcher specific workout?  Really happy for him.  And you must be proud how hard he worked to grind out those needed mph.

80 in our area for any Varsity pitcher is pretty good. 

 

Location and movement wins games at the high school level in our area. 

Agreed Lion.  Our ace last year touched 84 once.  He cruised at 79-82.

At our HS  (2200) enrolled..... as a varsity RHP if you are not 84-85 your not pitching much... we see 85-88 most all of the time, with a few 90's 

Same at my alma mater, Joliet Catholic.  Have 3 90+ guys this year.  But that is not the norm everywhere!  Where I coach we play summer ball so anybody throwing mid 80's and up doesn't play.  We have two kids in our hallways in that range but they play travel ball not high school ball.  If we went to spring baseball they would both play.

He made a good jump from 8th grade to freshman  he went from 6'0 to 6'3.... then during the soph and jr years, needed to "fill out"   But again when he went for 20 years old to 21 and in a top JUCO program his velo jumped again... he is a solid 6'3 200 and TTU feels he can reach 90 next year.... as their training table , weight room, trainers are much better.... Yes I am very proud of him, did not think he would get this far.... I also like that he is closer to the degree !