Would you EJ?

Of course not.  Kid gets a walk-off, is not thinking, just reacting, game is over.  What's the point?

too harsh

I'm just wondering why you had to abbreviate the word "eject"?  

Player and father have a history of disciplinary issues and they go to the media with words like "cheated," so my money is on that this was warranted and they're exhibiting the lack of accountability that created this situation in the first place.

Typing on an iPhone. 

It has been forever since I've been involved in Little League, so I don't know the particulars of their rules.

 

But I will point out that the discussion at the linked site about the game being over is off target. You can stop the video and see the helmet already on the ground while the runner is still approaching the plate.

 

I don't know if that matters under Little League rules, but as a defense, it is not factually correct to say the game was already over.  The offense occurred during live action before the game ended.

 

Turning to the larger question, would I personally eject a player for celebrating a little too early and maybe a lot too boisterously?

 

Almost certainly not (assuming Little League hadn't made such conduct a point of emphasis that I was obliged to enforce).  I'd observe the legal touch of first base, make eye contact with the plate umpire, and head for the gate.

 

Would it affect my decision if the player had been a jerk earlier in the game? Absolutely not. Nurturing a grudge and letting it influence a call would be an abuse of power.

 

HOWEVER, if the spiking was done a manner that made me think that the helmet's bouncing in my direction (or my partner's direction if I were UIC) was not accidental and I thought the spike was the player's exclamation mark on whatever previous tensions had occurred earlier between the player and umpires, well, in that case, he would have bought his own ticket. 

 

Even with the video, you had to be there.

Looked to me like he clearly took his helmet off AFTER the runner scored. I think it's ridiculous that an umpire would do that. These kids are 12. What in the world is wrong with having fun and celebrating a big win??

By the way, he looks like a pretty big kid. I don't remember my son looking that old at 12...

Matt, I'm curious as to how you know this... I didn't see it in the article or the news vid.

You might be right about that. The black low resolution blob I thought was the helmet on the ground just before the runner scored might have been the first baseman's mitt.

It's in the comments below the article.

BTW LL (appealed all the way to Williamsport) upheld the ejection saying the kid had previously been warned. 

It's a bogus ejection by a full of himself umpire.

Any evidence to support this?

Yeah, watch the end where the umpire runs up to the dugout and in very animated fashion ejects the kid.  The game is over.  Players always toss their stuff and dog pile on a walk off win. 

Do they spike it, especially after being warned? As for the way he ejected him, that's part and parcel of ensuring that the ejection is known.

Not crazy about spiking the helmet.  It's not a normal, acceptable behavior or method of celebration. Even so, if there was no warning, I'd agree that the ump went too far.  But if the commentors are right, and the kid received a warning earlier in the same for a similar action, I'd say the ejection was correct.

 

A while back I was involved with  LL team that had a similar ejection. In that case there was no warning and the ejection came from nowhere. It's the worst call I've ever seen an umpire make, by far.  We did appeal to Williamsport in every way possible. We were pretty damn steamed. But at no point did any coach, parent, or league official even think about calling a TV station to complain. That's pretty messed up, IMHO.

Sort of hard to believe the news is covering this.

Sort of hard to believe the parent would go to the news....well, maybe not I guess.

Sort of hard to believe this kid is 12.  

I would not have ejected him, but, in his mind the narrative is that he and his team got cheated out of the LL World Series....nonsense, he was warned.  

Again, not sure why the news would cover this.  

Looking for this years Jackie Robinson West story?

I dunno - I (seriously) doubt I woulda ejected him and I probably shouldn't make too much out of a few seconds of video, but this dad and his son...well, they appear to be a bit over the top.

 

Got cheated?  WHAT????

 

News story with son and dad interviewed?  Double-WHAT????  No, make that WTF????

 

We had a helmet thrower/spiker on our all-star/travel team way back when and that kid didn't really get it under control until well into HS.  The kid looked foolish all the way from age-10 through 2-3 years of HS.  This dad (in the news story/video) has an opportunity to help his son kick this habit right now - yet it appears he's helping his son make excuses.

 

I don't have much hope that this family is going to get it anytime soon.  Seems to be a bunch of enablers to me.

Throwing equipment is a safety issue. That is why the penalties are so severe. This helmet was thrown AND in the direction of other players. I have no problem with this ejection.

What a difference LL vs. Cooperstown.  I saw a kid in Cooperstown strike out in the 1st inning and throw his bat 15-20 feet with both hands as hard as he could against the front of the dugout.  Almost cold cocked a teammate in the on deck circle and one coming out of the dugout.  Both ducked for cover.  There was silence on the field as everyone had their jaw against their chest.

 

He got a warning.  It was the only time I ever challenged an umpire on an ejection or lack thereof.  The reason for the warning - the kids came here to play. I understood the sentiment but thought he was wrong to give him the pass. 

 

I think in this LL example it would have been a better call.

In my opinion, there is a HUGE difference in throwing a bat or helmet in anger or frustration and throwing a helmet as a result of celebration.  Throw it in anger, warning - then ejection.  Throw it in celebration - ejection is over the top.  Regardless of what happened earlier or the reputation of the kid and his family, baseball is supposed to be fun.  Especially for kids.  Now you can't throw your helmet in celebration??  It happens after EVERY walk off hit at any level of baseball.  Are you now going to eject an entire team if they storm the field after a walk off hit because they are not supposed to be on the field?  Technically, the helmet throw was AFTER the run scored, so the game was over.  In my opinion, it was an over the top reaction by the umpire and totally unnecessary.

Exactly. 

Whether the game was over or not has little to no bearing on whether this was justified.

He already had a warning.

Without being there for the entire game I'd be hesitant to eject him.  IF he had been warned for a similar event in that game, yeah, I'd be more incline to eject him.  But not on the basis of events that occurred in previous games.

 

FWIW - my son did something similar during JV level fall league one year.  It wasn't a game winning hit, but was towards the end of a game.   He felt he beat the throw (was thrown out by milliseconds) and threw his helmet up in frustration.   Umps did not eject him, but conferred with his coaches.  He ended up sitting out the next regularly scheduled game.  It was the last time he threw his helmet.

 

Never crossed my mind to go running to the media to "air" my grievance with the league.

 

Kid (and his Dad) needs to take his lumps and learn from it.

Not that it changes my opinion of the ejection, but can an ump eject a player after a game has ended?  And would the winning run crossing the plate in the bottom of the last inning officially end a game?  I'm not trying to be a wise guy, I'm asking because I don't know.

thats one of the reasons I started this thread.  Wondering if that was possible.  I know in LL it is permissible to EJ after the game.  Obviously LL didn't have a problem with it as Williamsport upheld the appeal.  If you are allowed to EJ after a game at what point does that authority end?  

Umpires can eject as long as they are on the field. Once they leave the field, they can not eject. However, in High School, they can still file Incident Reports for anything they observe, even after leaving the playing field.

Yep.  Was at a HS game (VHSL) where a player disagreed with a called strike that ended the game.  Ump ejected him, however, it was later overturned on appeal.  But initially he was ejected.

Sure they can.  Take this example, which is pretty close to what I once saw happen at a LL game.  Tie score, 2 outs bottom of the sixth, runner on 3rd, batter hits a ground ball into the 5-6 hole, SS makes a clean play and a good throw, but on the small field with a fast runner, it's a bang-bang play at first. FU calls the runner safe.  PU indicates run scored and game over.  Visiting team manager runs onto the field and starts yelling at FU.  FU tries walking away but manager cuts him off and yells at him to get help.  FU declines.  Manager continues to yell, kicks dirt, drops F-bombs that all can hear and bumps into FU who at that point signals ejection.

 

In that scenario wouldn't you agree that ejection was warranted and appropriate, even though the game is over?  If you say he can't be ejected, then what's to stop a jerk coach from behaving like that anytime there's a call to end a game that he doesn't like.

Not saying it can't happen, I was asking.  But technically, he's not ejected from that game, right?  Would it be the next game?  

 

I'm sure there are situations where an after game ejection is warranted, and your example sounds like a valid one.  I don't, however, think a player throwing his helmet in celebration after a game winning walk off hit is one of them.  But, that's just me...

Therein lies the difference.  Going after and verbally/physically assaulting an umpire is a lot different that ejecting for what amounts to a walk off celebration. 

However, we don't know that was the issue. We know he was warned for spiking his helmet earlier. We know that the powers that be that read the report upheld it. Thus, the available evidence is that he wasn't ejected for a walk-off celebration.

He's ejected from the current game. Any suspensions would start with the next one. So, if there is no suspension, then the ejection is pretty much just paperwork.

In LL an ejection earns a one-game suspension as well.

I have a question.

 

In Federation rules, the umpires' jurisdiction "ends when the umpires leave the playing field at the conclusion of the game."

 

The case book describes a post-game ejection that is ruled invalid, not because it occurred after the game ended, but because it occurred in the parking lot after their jurisdiction ended.

 

So it seems there can be ejections after the end of the game but before the umpires leave the field. 

 

Which leads to my question.

 

Can there also be forfeits after the game ends?

 

Suppose the winning coach commits a flagrantly unsportsmanlike act immediately after the game ends but before the umpires leave the playing field.  Umpire ejects the coach and orders him to leave the field.  Coach refuses to leave:  "No way, Blue! Game's over. It's my field. I"m not going anywhere. You leave or I'll have you arrested for trespassing."

 

Could we at that point have a forfeit after the game ended?

 

My answer is I don't know and I don't care.

 

The reason for that is that I'm never going to forfeit a game. If circumstances warrant that as an option, I'm suspending the game in progress (not necessary in your case,) taking all pertinent information, and forwarding it to the governing body for them to decide. If they want to do so, that's their prerogative.

Granted, we are in theoretical territory here that as a practical matter we stay miles away from.

 

Just exploring the consequences of jurisdiction extending beyond the end of the game until the umpires leave the field.