Linear,
Like you, I am fairly up to date on what the most quoted guys think and say. I even remember you helping clear some things up for me a couple of years ago
Correct me if I am wrong...like I needed to say that haha but here goes
Ny*** has said" I can teach a high level swing with no arm and hand action".
I know because I internalized that and worked with it a long time. He went on to decribe the loading shoulders differentiating scap loading ( the shoulder unit rotating around the spine) vs counter rotation( turning inward with the whole body).
"No arm action" does work for many and I found that maybe it was better for guys that batted LH and threw RH. With the dominant hand on the bottom they seemed to get more angular displacement vs knob drag through the zone. Ny*** also showed the drag was rear elbow leading hands which is top hand dominance pulling the knob and minimal barrel projection. It was my observation that drag and hip slide seemed to occur in the same player
Upon listening to Mankin and Guerry and watching clips there seems to be another style/ method to get the barrel out there and have the upper body interface with the lower in a turn. Adding back the arm and hand action ( that basically) supports and enhances the scap loading that NY*** described helps many player and the list is too long.
Supporters of the start in the 45 slot and stay there speak about swing quickness and I do see HR derby swings with more arm and hand action that shortened up against 90 MPH pitchers but the same loading pattern is still there.
When the ball is half way home both hitting styles should arrive in the same position at launch.
I guess the core statement I have is that some players cannot scap load as well when you take away there arm and hand action. They need some dynamic movement pattern to help load and to get it in the correct launch position ( inside out)There is a greater likihood that the knob will start to the oppo box rather than drag with Mankins style loading. This will bring more barrel through the zone for people fighting bat drag and hip slide
These guys are much better hitters with it than without. For these guys that use it, they are not sacrificing quickness as the timing of the beginning move is sufficient to get them to launch just like the other guys.
I hear what the other camp says but it is not a true blanket statement. There is too much film to show differently. I have coached some players that are decidedly better hitters with arm and hand action for the above reasons. It is not the arm and hand action itself but the better hand position at toe touch that is created for them with the arm and hand action.
The old school cue " keep your front shoulder in" was an effort to keep the hands back inside at toe touch. It is simply saying the same thing because it is not hardly possible to do one without the other
An lets really define laughable...
Imagine taking all the MLB players that use arm and hand action for timing, loading and synching to the park and tell them to put their bat in the 45 slot and learn to turn better and bring your swing out of the middle and you will put up better numbers. Or tell them they are not quick enough to be a great player doing what they are doing. I can hear the laughter. I sure wouldn't be the one to say it.
Lastly, if baseball can find a dominican player in a jungle that can help the game they could certainly find me, you or set*** if they could make Andruw Jones quicker