Originally Posted by TPM:
Originally Posted by real green:
Originally Posted by jp24:
Originally Posted by CaCO3Girl:
Can you give examples of what their overuse was? Obviously pitching 150+ pitches every Saturday for 10 months would be overuse, but can you be specific on what theirs was?
Pitcher 1: From 12 or 13 years old on, he was CONSTANTLY working on pitching. Lots of long-toss (don't know details), and played in Texas for select teams that were in a LOT of tournaments starting in February -- often VERY cold weather -- all the way through August at least. It wasn't consecutive-days pitching, or throwing 150 in a game (although I did see him at 14 throw 125) -- it was just obvious that this young man was over-pitching. He was out for brief spells with arm issues almost every year from 12-15. And he'd come back, healed and HURLING. I'm talking mid-80's at a very young age -- 90+ in HS. It all ended with the SNAP! His elite D1 offer included.Pitcher 2 is from the northeast. He worked his tail off. Long toss all the time. But guarded fiercely by his select coach. Unfortunately, as a senior this year, his HS team was heading to State -- and his HS coach pitched him with one or two days' rest (can't remember), and when the MLB teams that were looking at him as a 95+ very high draft pick had him take a physical, they diagnosed the tear.
Both are sickening.
CaCO3,
Here is what I consider a problem. I have a friend who has a 10 year old who has played more LL travel games this summer than sons 15/16u team. Its August, almost time for school to start here and they are off to CA for more baseball. They play fall ball as well.
My friend says he wants to play ball in college someday.
Do you think he will?
Did I mention he is a pitcher?
I said awhile back on this thread that the only thing we can all agree on is genetics plays a role. Some guys seem to have untearable UCL's, while others are failing while following the pitch smart rules. I am a scientist, I need actual data to crunch. Until the technology is widely available to measure the strain on each persons arm I don't think any of us know anything for sure....we have educated guesses, but much like the people in the 17th century thought that old meat just spontaneously produced the maggots...not ever understanding small fly eggs that they couldn't see we're the cause....we don't know what causes a pitchers arm to fail. We are waving our hands and pointing at data going see, see.....but as several people have pointed out there is no actual data, only guesses. Will I be monitoring my kid to make sure he follows the pitch smart rules, yes. Am I sure that if he follows them to the letter he won't have to have TJ surgery at 16, NO!