wvmtner,
” I'm surprised”
Don’t be I’ve been out of the field loop for 4 years now.
“Do you keep in touch with Jim at West Coast?”
Yes and if you are with them, Kev is in great hands!
“Kev will be down in Pasaden throwing with them in Jan.”
I heard Lenny has moved on, who is Kevin working with?
”Honestly, I didn't know there was a controversy over the bottom half “
Well, lets just say it seems like it’s the last straw with regards to adding in the last component tenet for traditional way believers (which is 99.9999% of all at every level
accept older still playing adults).
“The top half is what I really noticed because of the pronation of every pitch”
Have you witnessed personally yet someone throwing Marshall center mass pitches?
”Kevs injuries are in his right groin that I thought came from over striding and not pivoting his back foot and leaving it on the rubber too long.”
This is the case; with the traditional motion the hips get early powerful rotation and turn
90 to 100 degrees and decelerate leaving the ball arm leg back with all of them to varying degrees, at the same time the glove arm foot plants and is locked in, the leg takes all of these deceleration forces no matter how bent or posted it is and transfers this it right up through their hip (this is where the first stress reaction is in the hip). Then the ball arm leg has to whip up to counterbalance the chest drop from back bend then rotate around the same hip while the foot is still locked in, the rotational forces go up the leg and right into the same hip (this is where the second stress reaction in the hip is now dealing with torque).
Marshall teaches to stay tall all the way through to defensive position, step short and get late rotation that leaves the glove arm leg down and rotating to the front so that you’re hips and feet rotate 180 degrees, It’s the way everybody throws when they are walking, trotting or running through a throw.
”I'm not sure what you mean about "keep you're legs forward" but I've always taught all my pitchers to throw in a crow step motion.”
This is good! Did you ever think of bringing that to the mound? Marshall teaches you to throw from the same posture that you walk or run from, that would be legs driving you forward, I have my more towards traditional (leg lift) pitchers turn their ball arm foot 45% to the plate the way Koufax did that keeps them from “over early rotation” the main cause of centripetal arm vector (traditional).
“I'm confused on "full motion"
Marshall’s full motion is with the bottom half mechanics added in which is, the pitcher does not lift his leg he just steps back or starts back and drives straight forward.
”Muscle and Tendon strains”
Ability to with stand the stress deals with all three. Muscle can be torn by another muscle
Like in hamstring pulls where two opposing muscles fire off at the same time
"I think that ligament injuries are usually caused by poor mechanics."
I’ve come to believe they are all caused by poor mechanics and poor Sport Specific training for strength and have nothing to do with pitch count.
“That's why tall one didn't pitch until his Sr. year and young one just pitched this fall.”
Isn’t it curious that athletes did not have to have pitches in their youth to attain the highest levels of performance as opposed to what we have all been taught?
"How far left of centerline. Is this what's called "flying open" by most pitching coaches?"
There is as many explanation call outs for perceived flying open as in many other old baseball terms like “heavy ball and Dead arm”
The popular reason explaining "flying open" deals with the shoulders but there are many more.
The distance varies with Marshall because of pitch type sides of the pitchers plate.
Basically you want the Glove arm leg to land on the glove arm side of center mass, it can be 3 inches from center with his pronated cutter, slider and curve (torque pitches) to a 12” with his tailing fastball, Sinker and screwball (maxline pitches)
”Funny you said this. I never could figue out how you pronate on a curveball.”
It takes extreme Radial flexion of he wrist, like trying to pitch it over your glove side Ear that can’t happen.
“but noticed that he does it when I watched slow motion video.”
If he is extremely on top of his curve like Berry Zito or Juan Marishal that might be the case but normally you are seeing “involuntary pronation” after violent supination caused from your forearm going as far as it can in supination then snapping back to pronation just after release!
Marshall is attaining forearm pronation during the driveline and during release!
“Maybe that's why not shoulder problems.”
Shoulder problems are all caused by “over early rotation” of you’re driveline that produces a curvilinear driveline the centripetal arm vector and the finish pulling down and across you chest.
”It's mainly because I have not tried it myself“
Testing things thoroughly is the only way to know.
“have not seen any of his students getting signed.”
He works with adult players whom have already severely injured themselves, if he were to work with Genetically superior healthy athletes they would get signed plus he’s training them in the full motion and has had rehabs that perform at a high level but have not been handed the ball!!!
On the other hand I who have been working with these tenets with an acquiescing leg lift of many sorts for some years now have had 7 drafted and one this year is projected in the first 3 rounds, all are expert in the full motion also.
“I just can't believe that baseball would conspire to keep him out if he was right. I may be wrong.”
Oh, I could tell you his history dating back to his playing days that would have you thinking about it.
”I am open minded to try anything for myself. I can still throw BP all day (unless it's 100 degrees) I have no arm problems at all. I would be willing to try his methods on myself and form a more educated opinion from there.”
Well you saw how I pitched to the boys, I still throw 600 to 1200 maximal pitches every day, if I had not started Marshall’s material on myself I would have to use a machine 4 days a week
"If you ever get to West Coast, maybe you can see him throw and see what you think."
That would be great and I owe them a visit, let James know when and I will be there.
“since I retired.”
Retired? That will come in handy when you have to travel to the Dakotas to see the young one play and then there is the tall one to see?