quote:“Yardbird how do you respond to the UMPs on another thread calling the motion illegal?”
I have answered this question before, these umpires should call the rules evenly for everybody or they will open up a can of worms that even Pandora would be proud of!
First the answer is yes, Marshall pitchers are breaking the rules by leaving the pitchers plate before the ball is released in the same way ALL traditional pitchers break this same rule by leaving the pitchers plate before release. If you have access to High speed video or film you will discover that traditional pitchers are between 6 to 18 inches off of the plate and Marshall pitchers are between 6 to 48 inches off of the plate. If you were to enforce the rule with traditional pitchers they would be so disconnected and anchored down it would cause insurmountable problems. Please don’t go there!
quote:“The movement that starts forward before contacting the rubber is illegal.”
Not sure what you mean here?
The movement that starts forward in the wind up position is always connected to the pitchers plate with a Marshall delivery, what video are you speaking of?
.quote:“That is why pitchers toe the rubber and rock back and load before going forward”
The only reason they do this like described is because they were taught to do it and has no rule correlation other than it is legal just like Marshall’s full version start.
quote:“That of course means that the hand goes backwards before driving forward”
You have lost me here, what is illegal?
quote:”One day a few years ago my wife came running up to me with a Marshall add”
Marshall does not do ads, they cost a fortune, maybe it was someone else’s ad maybe a radio broadcast ad, the only information you could get from him prior to his internet start was if you wrote him or you heard him interviewing on the radio?
Marshall is not selling anything, it’s all free, and why would he buy ad space for a non-profit service? All you need to do is Google him. He does not seek the people who show up at his door, they are coming to him for new yard life.
quote:“She said this guy has discovered the secret to pitching at 100mph without injury”
It’s amazing how intuitive and protective Women are. Marshall says women will be the ones that will get the most movement in regards to this implementation with some.
quote:“I laughed at her and said I had received emails from this guy after answering one of his adds. I won't say what I said next.”
What ads? It’s good to see you fess up here, good for you! You should see Marshall do subtraction. Now back to mechanics?
Southpaw_dad.
Thanks for the ideas! I will go over them several times to glean the gems.
Getting a quality response is not rare here in the general post section but has a tendency to wane here in the learning pitching skills section. I believe we would all learn more if people would tell us what they believe in rather than what some body else does, they always get it wrong.
quote:” First, recognize that you are passionately advocating a school of thought and training that is considered by the vast majority of the baseball world as being on the very fringe”
Yes this recognition came at the turn of the century when the information was disseminated via the Internet. Things have to start somewhere.
quote:“even after 20+ years of being around.”
It’s only been 9 years for the public and a couple of years before that with very few.
Marshall did not self publish his information before 2000.
quote:“If people were going to flock to it, they would have started flocking by now.”
Can you name another instructor other than Marshall and Yardbird whom is teaching this material and Marshall does not work with youth.
quote:” People are best persuaded by a growing body of evidence of success, not long, technical discussions of complex theories that are foreign to them, laced with jargon with which they are unfamiliar. If you can’t keep it simple, you can’t sell it.”
The information will only be useful to those who wish to participate, all others may do what they wish, I will not ruin other threads that need to explain their beliefs although
Since all others are proprietary I believe much information is left out here and many other
Sites. Not so with Marshall.
quote:” e-Mail (which this essentially is) is a horrible communications medium for complex discussions, let alone debates. The medium itself tends to suppress understanding, and magnify negative emotions. Also, blunt language & incendiary comments are easily magnified out of proportion in this medium, and inspire those who disagree to become more fixed in their position, and potentially more disagreeable.”
Are you calling this message board e-mail? I do not e-mail as a mass information spreader If you are talking about Marshall’s site? This would be his decision. I don’t think any of this should hinder a discussion on human motor performance! If you are talking this style of message board , I see what you mean.
quote:”When one reads comments that smack of paranoia, or a conspiracy to suppress the “truth”
Do you deny this ever happens? I would agree here if it were actually paranoia and not just fanciful name-calling.
quote:“the writer comes off as someone who is wearing a purple smock, black Nikes, and drinking grape Kool-Aid.”
I do not think this way, this may be my undoing! I will suppress this information in the future, if I recognize it, do paranoi’ic people recognize their paranoia?
quote:“As a reader who likes to give all the benefit of the doubt, let me tell you in all honesty that many of your posts that I have read over the last year have left me with this image.”
I assure you my sneakers are white, I wear a blue jacket and I prefer Cherry Kool Aid.
If it was grape it would be called grape drink according to Dave Chapelle.
I have no reason to lie here, I’m on record for what I say, If I say Marshall’s full mechanic looks repugnant and that is an arrow in it’s back I mean it!
quote:” Remember: A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still. You’re working way too hard trying to sell your ideas.”
This is one of those gems, thanx!
quote:”Suggestion: You clearly believe in the teachings of Dr. Marshall. Mr. Marshall has a pitching school, newsletters, and other ways of spreading the word.”
Marshall has shut down his pitching research center to the public except for visitors and has only diseminated material via mail and his web page.
This is way to important to me for youth pitchers here, I think a thread designed for how to information should be left to its own merits and if people wish to read it and benefit from the truth can do so from someone who has repeated these successes.
quote:“I would suggest that you simply tell folks that you, and many you have trained, have found value in the Mike Marshall approach. Suggest that they check it out for themselves.”
I have tried this approach many times and it always starts a fire where false claims are then spread. This is my big sticking point; I must get over this, should I just ignore them? and just keep posting positively?
quote:“You might even give them a website or phone number to help them find their way. Then leave it at that.”
I have done this also, same result.
quote:”If they ask why you believe in this approach, you can speak briefly about results realized, and send them off to do their own investigation. This way, they own the research, and they are more likely to buy what you are trying so hard to get them to see.”
This may ultimately be the best approach? Gem!
quote:”Don’t try to teach via e-mail. It is extremely difficult to do effectively, even when you have a motivated learner, and a common jargon and starting point for the discussion.”
I don’t know about this? I have learned more from Marshall’s personal published e-mails than anywhere except his free e-books.
quote:“Adhere to these thoughts and you will typically garner more respect”
I am not looking for personal respect, just civil discourse and eliminating youth throwing injuries and could care less about Pro’s.
quote:“I may be way off base here, but I don’t think the approach you have been following is achieving the desired end. I sincerely hope that something in these thoughts proves to be helpful.”
You have been honest and respectful and I did learn, hey you were right!
cap_n,
quote:“I wouldn't know. I have yet to see any credible video illustrating any baseball pitcher using the preferred Dr. M. mechanics at any high level MLB game showing superior velocity and control.”
I thaught this was High School Baseball Web? I guess were mid level?
quote:“exactly like baseballs??? A 15% increase in weight (especially at this level) is not exactly like anything.”
You would think throwing an object that weighs slightly more as with Cricket players
do would tend to make them throw slower which is not the case. This evidence shows
That throwing of off center mass garners you great velocity! I was giving baseballs the fudgement.
quote:”I'm all in favor of closing this thread.....can I get a second on this motion?”
See!!!!!! Cap_n has left the house.
MTS,
quote:“Many pitchers have a few of the tenets Marshall wants.”
Yes, Juan Marichal, Maddux, Lincecum but their rating is right on the edge of not being enough plus they have to deal with their useless leg lift and lengthy glove side leg drive.
If your rating falls below a 300 you are susceptible. I cringe when the guys who are down in the 000 and 200 range.
quote:“That is because these are tenets that many traditional pitchers already have.”
Yes, this is why they have them.
quote:“Just because Marshall call those his doesn't make it so.”
You do not understand this point, everybody has their tenets or they don’t look at it this way! Again what are you’re tenets? I have mine. I know asking you questions will not
get any reply but I will keep trying.
quote:“Your AFLAC pitcher was a traditional pitcher.”
I’m beginning to believe you may understand the general sense involved in pronated drives and releases plus the in line nature of these mechanics but do not think you understand how the critical arm turn over is different at initial force application.
This timing is where the injurious drive components are overcome!
quote:“I could see Marshall making unfavorable criticism of your pitcher's mechanics”
I do not look at it as unfavorable; I look at it as constructive. Either way this individual knows where he could be and where he wants to take it. After all it’s his life.
Marshall is aware we acquiesce and knows where he would have ½ way guys perform because he’s been there long before.
quote:“unless he makes it to the MLB, at which point Marshall will take full credit.”
I’m the one that will be giving him most of the credit not himself, again isn’t that a little personal. Now back to the mechanics!