quote:“Yardbird, I haven't made any extraordinary claims with a new pitching mechanic.”
You are correct; you have been making extraordinary claims about a primitive mechanic. What’s the difference? I’m OK with that, it is you who is not. I want to hear about your kids!
quote:“that doesn't work as you have.”
I have proved that it does work and you saying it does not make any sense!
Go back and really take in what Drew is doing, watch how radically he pronates even with his flaws in these theoretical mechanics, His bending at the waist, his not stepping open enough on the maxline pitches and only getting mid late rotation instead of full.
Laflippen,
quote:“For those interested”
Nobody here knows who Joe Williams is why would they be interested in your issues?
Give him the ball. Are you not a little curious to find out if it works even with you’re perceived lower velocity?
quote:“He posts Marshall video clips on YouTube”
This video was posted by the young boys father, how you going to get people to believe you when you can’t get anything right.
I just read all of those comments from both sides and think that it is admirable of Joe W. to defend the hateful comments about a 12 year old trying to play the game the way he wants to. This thing really gets people riled up just seeing it. Just read the comments of people who have your attitude. Would you give the boy the ball?
quote:“people who make nasty comments”
This does seem to be your style, why?
quote:“Although Yardbird tries to suggest that no one will give the Marshall jokers the ball,”
I did not suggest! that full Marshall pitchers are not given the ball, it is fact born out at all levels.
quote:“Marshall's former friend,”
And why would you suggest he is not still friendly with him?, you have no ties to this information.
quote:“couldn't do enough with the ball to make the team roster.”
Like I said Joe had the best try out of all the pitchers there. Give him the ball then we will see, are you so afraid that he will be effective to not even give him a shot like all who has come across it before?
quote:“For that, Tommy John was excoriated on Marshall's website”
Now you are flat out lying here, Marshalls only comment was he thought the friendship was two ways instead of one , especially when Marshall helped T.J. rehab himself. Big whoop. You can sure pore on the exaggerations!
quote:“excoriate Dr. Glenn Fleisig for carrying out a careful and accurate study of his pitchers.”
Again lying here only makes you look bad, Fleisig was not excoriated for conducting this study, Marshall brought them there. He was admonished for being a quitter when he realized Marshall was right on with his critique of ASMI’s many mistakes in the research protocol and report that was built around measuring traditional mechanics. You do not need to make things up, this is not a good idea for you personally because anybody can go and read exactly what happened and what was said at Marshall’s web site for free.
quote:”I can understand why this quixotic mission”
Your quixotic mission seems to be a bit angry, are you still miffed that your intellectual hat was handed to you at the hands of Marshall when you e-mailed him several times with the same tenor you use here? Some people really have revenge issues to overcome.
What does all this have to do with mechanics anyway? I wish you could just talk about the mechanical issues that are very important to youth pitchers. This constant lying about Marshall is fruitless, whom are you talking to? It sure is not me, yet you answer my posts with comments that have nothing to do with what we are talking about and it is never in a positive light. I know what has been said and done in the past and it never matches up with what you are selling here.
OK, now back to mechanics!!
Oh, Jeez, venting always leads to miss communications!!
quote:“---No, Yardbird, his velocity doesn't look extraordinary at all and it doesn't look like low 70's, it looks like low to mid-50's to me. In any case, if you wish to believe that your "85% Amazin' 12 yo"
I wonder if the rest of the readers made the same mistakes as you keep making!? I don’t think so! I did not post the “amazing” 12 Yo’s video his dad does and in High frame rate for all of us to study, a big thank you is all he deserves.
I asked you to look at my 12 year old Drew who is not the “named amazing” even though he has fast twitch velocity. The actual “Amazing” you have apparently missed represented does throw 55 as his father honestly reported, the reason he is amazing is because he is the first one to actually perform Dr.Marshalls theoretical call out “Full late rotation” that even my pitcher does not attain hence his 850 rating nor does any of Marshall’s traditional rebuilds, Amazing can be considered a 925 because he has some mechanical flaws still but is the best in the world for full Marshall mechanics. I think he proves what Marshall has been theorizing now for quite a while, Quite impressive if you ask me!
quote:"85% Amazin' 12 yo" would rival the top 4-5 pitchers in last year's LL World Series if you are telling the truth. That would surely make him a candidate for the single most dominant 12 yo pitcher in your entire state? “
If you are talking about my pitcher you are correct Sir, when he was 11 he struck out 200 Batters in his LL spring season, the next year we decided it would be a better course if he did not play his 12 YO LL year because he gained another 7 MPH and would have K’d everybody so he was moved up to 13 YO club ball where he still dominated,
You need to go back and read slowly this whole thread if you want to keep up because these explanations of non mechanics cause to mush band width use and personal animosity apparently?
Here is the link I was talking about that you missed, lets take a fools pole (because guessing at video velocity is that game) and see what everybody else thinks about his velocity, I know what it is and it’s a lot higher now that was a year and a 1/2 ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE0xaaItzl0
Imagine if he was throwing his fastball straight!!
quote:”The movement on the boy's pitches was fine, but nothing "special" or "extraordinary", in my opinion”
What is greatest about Marshall’s material is it allows non-genetically gifted (for pitch speed) athletes to compete with the genetically gifted; I have film of these kids also.
You should see the LL ers flailing away at screwball, pronated curves, Sinkers, cutters and fastballs. They have a great experience and a lot of fun.
quote:“I would definitely not trust your opinion about it”
Your paranoia is in the realm of cultists that you accused me of, I understand, maybe in time you will come to trust me, I have the same effect on dogs until they get to know me,
So why all the Wolf tickets?
Pastime
Trnmnts,
quote:“I naturally have thrown in a high 3/4 arm slot for most of my life”
I pitched and threw from all vectors but was at ¾ most of the time and threw my curve from straight over the top and never hurt my arm but did have inflammation after every long game. I started coaching HS ball out of College and continued to throw every day since along with doing private lessons where I would give live BP after the batters motor skill drills I still felt fine. When I turned 43 YO I started getting very bad pains in the elbow and ended up with a bursa tear (the Bursa is a sack around the elbow that contains fluid) where my elbow ballooned up twice its size. I did not go to the Dr. for a couple of days because there was no pain, the fluid leak turned septic and I ended up in the hospital. The Dr. there told me one more day and you could have died, I thaught, you got to be kidding me, a pitching injury that can kill you. He said yes and just like any operation, it can actually kill you, he said hip replacement operations have killed people many times. I conversed with Marshall because at that time he was the only one who claimed he knew what my problems stemmed from and all other pitching injuries. So I changed a few things, which was hard at first, but within a month all my pain went away and I started to pitch every day instead of every 4. At 55 now I throw every day between 600 and 1200 pitches with about 1/3 at maximal effort.
quote:“Everyone tried to get me to change when I was younger”
Without knowing why exactly they were telling you the right thing!!!!!
quote:“Almost all the way up til high school.”
Generally speaking most of us pitching coaches through time came to believe that the ¾
Arm vector always lead to high side arm vector, which leads to more severe pain and injury. It has always been a battle to keep the Elbow upwards.
quote:“I always threw harder from the 3/4 as opposed to over the top”
We never had guns available back then and never knew how fast we were throwing
quote:“ How do you handle this and what results have you gotten from switching people up top?”
Every mechanical change takes a long time to make the physiological adjustment especially with the traditionally trained pitchers like me and the older you are the more proprioceptivly (muscle memory) ingrained you are, this is why children perform Full Marshall much better than a traditional pitcher trying to make the change. If you are making only the top half change it takes less time but it is much harder to eliminate the "early over rotation" that is a gateway to arm and shoulder injuries!
I have found that at first there is a period of awkwardness that goes away once you get the rhythm correct, at this point the velocities remain about the same but now the rigorous specific training that you can perform that you cannot perform with traditional mechanics allows you to gain more velocity and potentially even higher velocity.
The problem with center mass drivelines using Marshall’s pitches is all perception because the movement increases with the fast balls (middle finger off to one side or the other slightly) and velocity under these circumstances will decrease. Because recruiters and scouts are all hung up on velocity I teach my 17 and ups to throw straighter (middle finger straight up, don’t go there Deemax) when throwing for the gun and go back to movement when throwing to get batters out that they can do at any time.
So far the results have been fantastic since before when I was traditional I would never let youth pitchers throw Cutters or sliders because of the injurious affects. I would never throw them either but now I can to my College Batters, what a difference!!