Originally Posted by TPM:
Originally Posted by AGDAD19:
All for pitch counts but unfortunately they are very narrow mind and leave to much to interpretation. I think the most critical and often left out interpretation of pitch counts is how they are reached. I feel those, including Andrews, who produce these pitch counts are missing that critical issue and often imply a "one size fits all" mentality. Yes I know they are just guidelines, but then you are leaving the interpretation up to those we've already established are often to dumb to follow them be it parents or coaches. Simply saying 70 or 80 or 90 pitches is grossly inadequate. How the pitcher reaches that total is far more critical. I'll simply say this, a pitcher who throws 85 or 90 pitches over 6 innings, never had an inning over 20 and team's had multiple innings scoring runs and having quality at bats is at less of a risk than a pitcher who throws 75 pitches in 3 innings and team's failed to produce a base runner. But by their matrix, 75 is better than 90. I really think someone needs to come up with a guideline of pluses and minuses based on number of pitches per inning and rest time between innings.
ASMI makes recommendations, have you ever looked at it? Then you would know that there are recommendations for rest between games.It is up to parents IMO, to make sure that the coaches their pitchers play for are familiar with it as well. Not all coaches are proficient in managing pitchers, heck even some ML managers have trouble with it.
Of course common sense rules and it is not one size fits all. If someone interprets it that way, well I don't think they did their homework. The WWW is a huge place, anyone who can access google can at anytime ask it any question about pitching to educate themselves.
Let me ask a question, why do coaches remove young pitchers from the mound and put them in the SS or 3B position, the place where that player makes many throws?
Or why would young pitchers stop their season only to pick up a ball again in a few weeks for pitching lessons? I don't get that, if you do please explain?
I've been TPM'd.
Obviously I was at least competent enough with WWW to find this Web site. I'm also fairly well versed in ASMI's and Dr. Andrews pitch counts and days between rest. With the exception of age adjustments, they are pretty much a one size fits all(age dependant) recommendation. Obviously the time off between mound appearances is a critical part of the equation. But I think you will see this refined with research to an hours/pitch recommendation (ie. 24 pitches, 24 hours rest, 72-72, 98-98...).
Obviously reading comprehension when browsing the WWW is an important attribute as well. If you'll reread my post, I wasn't talking about rest between mound appearances but the time between innings during a game that a pitcher had to recover and it's effect on fatigue based on the number of pitches thrown the previous inning. This, and how many pitches were thrown per inning, has a direct effect on the damage all pitchers experience during an outing. Simple pitch counts can't account for this.
Definitely not trying to get into a pissing match with you. I respect the journey you've traveled and experience you've gained through the years. I think you miss understood my post and assumed I may not have traveled or am traveling the same journey. I am by no means an expert but I am well versed.