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Reply to "Poll - Trout, Cabrera or other for AL MVP"

I'll take this one on before I finish the other, too. First, let me say that I agree with everything JH said in his post, particularly about agreeing with the last paragraph in PGStaff's post below (though I don't quote it).

quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:

"With a runner at 2B and no outs and the hitter hits a ground ball to the secondbaseman is it considered. Does it depend on the situation?

If a player makes a mental error is that accounted for?

If a player takes it easy running to 1B or dogs it on a fly ball is that accounted for?

Is being a dumb lazy player accounted for?"


I think there might be something left out of the first question. At least, I am not sure what is being asked.... However, from the context of the other questions I am guessing you are wondering about how modern statistics measure things like when and if (and how successfully) a player attempts a more difficult play than the safer one, and how he is credited (or given demerits) depending on his success or failure. And then how mental errors, lack of hustle, laziness, etc., are handled.

The short answer is that it isn't part of the equation (at least now) as far as I know. I could be wrong. Generally, though, it isn't the job of statistics to measure these things. They are a historical record of what has happened, but do not judge whether a player could or should have done something different that might have been more valuable. I think that is what the realm of scouting and coaching is for. And frankly, traditional statistics don't measure these things, either.

I would concede that these are the kinds of intangibles that are currently beyond statistics to measure. On the negative side, I would say that if a player regularly makes stupid, lazy, non-hustling choices, he won't be playing enough for it to matter in any MVP discussion, On the positive side, I think a guy like Derek Jeter fairly regularly makes choices that help his team in intangible ways that are either not measured currently or are not fully valued. HOWEVER, the difference in real value these things add are small in relation to the many more things that ARE measured, and as human beings we tend to remember and value the positive things guys like Jeter do, and minimize the negative (and overlook the mundane - such as relative lack of range). So you have to be careful in using this kind of thing in these kinds of debates, but I don't really have a problem if people do, as long as they recognize it is a pretty small part of the picture and can't really be used to overcome a large statistical deficit.

quote:
"I understand that most these things are noticed by coaches and management, but sometimes great statistics and talent give a player more leeway."


I think this is because coaches and management properly value the things that can be measured, versus the things that aren't.
Last edited by EdgarFan
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