Reply to "POP Time, 1.88 good?"

2forU posted:

jdb posted:

2forU posted:

Catch and release is .8 seconds of pop time (good footwork and mechanics), means that the ball needs to travel the 127 ft going 86.6 mph to get to 2b in one second, making pop time of 1.8 seconds

MPH to Feet per second is 86.6 Miles per Hour = 127.013333 Feet per Second

s = d/t

Pitcher to home of 1.4 added means you should throw out a runner that is timed 3.2 seconds from 1st to 2b or slower.

I'm not a mathematician, there are variables in this (HS, College, Pros - all differ), but you get the gist of it.

Also, if you can block 92 (I do not believe this is something you can quickly learn, regardless of what people say, it takes years of muscle and brain memory to just react combined with early pitch recognition burned into your brain through many years of practice and annual increase in ball speed), you still have to field the ball and then throw, lacking velo in that instance means the runner is safe

2forU, you did make me chuckle with this post.  I won't argue with your math.  But...

For arguments sake, you are using 3.2 seconds as your benchmark for running from 1st to 2nd.  So the gist of your argument is that with the parameters you chose, a successful catcher has to have a velocity of 86.6 MPH...in your scenario.

So how many baseball players can steal a base in 3.2 seconds?  Billy Hamilton, arguably the fastest player in baseball, swipes the bag in a little over 3.1 seconds.  So in your scenario, with a relatively slow pitcher (the better pitchers with runners on are 1.0-1.2  first move to home), a decent catch to release (.6 seconds with a good pitch is fast, but not unrealistic), and a world class runner stealing the bag; a catcher needs a velocity of almost 87 MPH to successfully spoil that stolen base attempt.  That is really not a reasonable comparison.

Let's say that you have pitcher who can get the ball to home in 1.3 seconds, a catcher at .7 seconds to release, and a runner at 3.3 (still faster than 95% of high schoolers) seconds, that means if our catcher gets the ball to second 1.1 seconds, he beats the runner by .2 of a second.  What velocity does the catcher now have to throw?  I feel like I'm back in physics class doing vector questions.  That 1.1 second throw requires a velocity of 79.4 MPH; If the catcher takes 1.2 seconds to get the ball to second, he needs a velocity of only 72.5 MPH.  That elite runner will be out by a step on a low 70's throw.

The take away for CURRYNC and her son, is to keep working on his mechanics, in all phases, including receiving, blocking, transfers and throws.  However, don't obsess over your velocity if it doesn't match the elite level guys in the mid 80's.  If he wants to increase his caught stealing percentage, work with his pitchers, get the coaches or other players to time all three phases of the play, and get the pitchers to buy into the premise that they are as important in this process as the catcher.  Tell your son to praise his pitchers every time they (pitcher/catcher as a unit) gun down a runner at the bag.  Once the pitchers buy into the concept and take it personally when a runner steals, it becomes a whole lot easier on the catcher. 

CURRYNC, don't believe this meme that you have to throw mid 80's from a crouch to be a college catcher prospect... not necessarily D1, but you can be wanted at the college level with a lower velocity. 

A ball traveling 79.4 MPH will travel 116.4533 feet in 1.1 second.  Runner is safe unless the ball travels 86.6 MPH

Ok 2forU, I think that others have already addressed this, so I'll be brief. I also acknowledge that these are averages not initial velocities, so they aren't perfectly equivalent to real world velocities.  They do show how required velocities decrease as upstream processes get faster.

You said, "A ball traveling 79.4 MPH will travel 116.4533 feet in 1.1 second.  Runner is safe unless the ball travels 86.6 MPH." - and "Well, my math skills don't include gravity.  That is where I draw the line - lol.  I'm sure that is someone way better at math than I am."

"A ball traveling 79.4 MPH will travel 116.4533 feet in 1.1 second." Uhh, Nooo.

A ball traveling 79.4 MPH is traveling at a rate of 116.4533 feet/second, not per 1.1 seconds.  When you add that .1 of a second at 11.6453 feet you have... 128.098 feet.  Sooo, the throw does beat the runner by .1 of a second, which is about 2 feet for a fast runner, and the ball does not have to travel at 86.6 MPH.  The math doesn't require accounting for gravity.