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Reply to "Tampa vs Boston - Ground Rule Double?"

@JohnF posted:

w/r/t GRD - hard to determine intent in all cases... I suspect we'll see language about knocked or batted into DBT rather than just thrown or kicked... That's a tough one in an important game - over there in RF I could see that happening with that low fence in the corner.

w/r/t Grandal - running lane interference is only applicable on throw to 1B... a requirement to be "in the box" at 45ft could leave a lot of interpretation when a player is out of the lane rounding to go to 2B (I know that's not what happened here). My point is be careful how you interpret that 45 lane - not sure 22and25 has the best wording.

I agree from just the pictures it looks egregious. Still, did the 1B-man have time to take another step inside the diamond in order to clear the runner? Could the C have set up more towards 3B rather than point of plate towards 1B? The picture shows him closer to line than the runner! Does a rule change cause a 1B-man intentionally throw at a runner just to get an interference? Grandal's job is not to make it easier for the fielder especially since he's not out - think other bases (especially 3B -> Home).  Other than running, we wasn't waving his arms or otherwise trying to deflect the ball. He has no idea where the C is. If (most) batters don't appreciate an HBP especially in the face area - imagine how a runner feels with a ball thrown from a fielder with much less "control" anywhere towards the facial area...

I completely understand the rules with regard to the Grandal play. My point is that there has to be a theoretical limit to what line he is allowed to choose.    My point is that the path itself can be the overt move to disrupt the play, without the need for flailing arms or jutting the shoulder out. Let’s say there was a ground ball to SS in the same situation , can Grandal establish a line directly at the SS and hook a right turn after the pitching mound to get to first base?  No, obviously not.  So where is the limit?  The spirit of the rule is that the batter runner has some liberty to establish his line from wherever his swing might take him to the base.

Lets say that was a bunt for example and Grandal was all the way forward in the box and lunging toward the pitcher.  His momentum takes him out through the front of the batter’s box and he then establishes his line to 1st base from that point.  He may, in that scenario, have a legitimate claim to a line that is well into the infield grass.

For the play in question he was in the back of the lefty box, made a fully rotational swing, pulling the ball to 1st base, with his momentum taking him to the first base dugout.  Gathers himself and starts to run to 1st base from outside the foul line.  You can see from the one pic I posted that he is fully turned toward first, shoulders squared to the bag and running while still in foul territory.  You can see he is several  feet, yes feet, off the throwing lane between Gurriel and Maldonado.  At this point Grandal has established his line and the point he was impacted with the ball is well off the line he initially established.  There is just no way Grandal reaches the point of where he was hit with the ball without an intentional effort to interfere with the throw.



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Last edited by 22and25
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