Tagged With "radar"
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Getting on Radar as Soph.
Hey everyone. First post here. My son is a high academic kid and is a soph. RHP. Had some terrible travel ball experiences playing on a few elite regional teams. Had an injury during first year with national level travel team, which he seems to have overcome. I know he burnt out this past summer, too. Didn't play last summer and came back to HS ball in spring and really reconnected with the game and had a good year on varsity as soph. despite not playing at all for the year before. We're...
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PG Showcase Radar Readings
Hey all. Son just went to PG showcase and radar readings were surprising. I thought low 80s, read cruising 75, topped out at 78. I'm his Dad, so take my post with a grain of salt. I'm also an ex player so I do a lot of eye ball testing when I watch games and I felt like the gun was off 2-3 mph for other kids too. Bunch of people (not pitcher's Dads) behind gun were all saying the same, that kids at 83-84 seemed 86+. Watching the gun is like going to Web MD to check your symptoms. Drives you...
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Interference with Stalker Sport 2
Has anyone had any experience with things interfering with the readings on a Stalker Sport 2? I've been using mine in my basement where I have fluorescent lighting and I'm getting lower readings than I've gotten on my college coaches gun. I know the manual says fluorescent lighting can cause interference but wasn't sure how much it affects it. Thanks
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
Kids throwing high 70's to low 80's really are wasting their time going to a PG Showcase, in my opinion.
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
In our circle when the kids were 14 or 15 the pitcher's dads would tell us what the kids were gunned at and that provided some points of reference for velo (eg Johnny throws 85 and this is a little less so must be 82). Then at 16 and 17 when there were actual guns at the events we found out that our estimation was a good 5 MPH to the high side.
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
All makes sense. In our case, going to this PG event was actually worth it to get a bit of a reality check for me and my kid. I didn't expect anything big to come of it other than to see how he stacked up, which is pretty much right in the middle across the board. Hoping some hard work and adding 15 pounds by next summer can help on the velo front.
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
When faced with the choice of actual data and your beliefs, argue with the data. Seriously, it's in PGs interest to have correct readings; otherwise, who would go and incur the costs? Buy a radar gun (cover the cost by skipping one event); use it at local HS and college games. Play this game: gun without looking at the number and see how close you are. If it's so easy to get it right, why do scouts gun prospects until they get a base line (at which point they move down the line to watch more...
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
I've seen some questionable readings over the year at the WWBA. Where kids would throw at one venue, then a few days later at another and have pretty large swings.
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
"Where kids would throw at one venue, then a few days later at another and have pretty large swings." So many variables go into the velo (especially for younger players) numbers one day to the next. For example, how many days between readings, how'd the kid sleep the nite before, how was the mound, did he have a fight with his GF, are his mechanics consistent (especially with young players), was it cold, was he throwing one inning one day and three the following time, etc? That's one reason...
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
Buy a gun. There's a reason why every seasoned scout has one. They do this for a living and they don't trust there "eye". Throw in dad bias and it's always wrong and always to the high side. I've seen dozens of dads say their kid throws higher than they do, in fact every single one. I've never seen a dad say his kid throws lower that what the gun will tell them later. End the debate in one swipe of the credit card. Buy a gun.
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
Agree with GooseEgg...there are any number of factors that can affect the radar results. Most kid pitchers do not know how to warm up their arms properly, and these events tend to add a level of anxiety to it. Unfortunately, it is going to cost more, but going to another PG event in a few months might be your best option, or wait until next year if he has time. The good thing is PG shows a chart with FB velocity progression so it should be all up from here if he works on getting stronger and...
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
If you don't want to shell out for a Stalker, buy a pocket radar for $200. It's accurate and within 1-2 mph of the stalker every time. I know that the showcase was a positive experience for your kid, but you would be wise to hold onto that money and wait until he hits 84/85 before going to another.
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
I have a pocket radar and yes they are very accurate compared to stalkers, however they have way more missed readings or false readings (like registering a 26 for an 80 fastball). But once you find a good spot it's pretty good. I found that distance is the key factor, get as close as you can to the action, accuracy falls off pretty quickly when you move off the backstop. It also seems to round down, so a Stalker 85.8 will read as an 85 on PR.
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
Also, where you are positioned can affect the gun reading. Directly in line with the pitcher gives the most accurate reading. If you are more than a few degrees off of straight-on you introduce parallax error which will give an incorrect reading (unless you've got a gun such as Stalker that can be calibrated to compensate for this).
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
I know this is not the right forum but my kid went to his first PG event, they took his EV reading with a pocket radar behind the net barely 4 feet on front of the hitter. The radar was not vertical and his fingers were blocking the sensor. My kid, god bless his moxy informed the guy and got a snarky reply. He then sent an email to the organizer, proud of him for that.
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
I have found PG's speed to be right on with my PR and the college coach's around me. I was always off so I bit the bullet and bought one. It is great for training and when the team says some kid is supposed to throw 87 and he is actually 82. I love when a dad says his kid is ?? and then I break out my gun and he is 5 mph slower. Then come the excuses which many times are legitimate. My son's speed fluctuates during the summer a lot more than in the school year. For him, he loses the...
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
“I know what my son throws give or take 2-3 mph.” Right. I wonder why My golf ball is generally 20 yards behind my search area.
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
I gave up on the eyeball test a long time ago... Only people that are close on velo numbers are the catcher and the hitter. Even my son will say, I wasn't feeling it today and his velo is up 1 or 2 mph. So he couldn't tell how hard he was throwing. Stadium guns, scout guns, pocket radars... it's crazy. Why do you see everyone in the stands with guns when the stadium gun is on? Some people talk about "hot" guns for TV broadcasts. But it is important 2 mph can be the difference between getting...
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
Absolutely, this! Had my radar out the other day, and almost without exception the kids were throwing far less mph than the parents claimed.
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
Attended two PG events where the radar gun was pointed toward either the short stop or 2nd baseman. Pricipals of radar will tell you this in not the most accurate position for the intended application. Yes, adjustments in the software can off-sett this deviation, but most of the PG events I saw there were kids running the gun. Highly doubt they programed the deviation into the gun before hand. Even Trackman is not accurate in some PG venues....only found this out as I was sitting behind...
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
While we're on the topic. Are the board readings at Lakepoint Trackman? While at the 16U there were differences between what was recorded in DK (assuming this is the gun reading from behind the plate) and what flashed on the scoreboard.
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
He needs technique improvements if he's throwing in 70s. You may need a new instructor. Get instruction where they measure improvements (radar). If you don't know how fast he's really throwing, how can you tell if he's getting better? And as far as eyeball tests, that's a joke. I have a radar gun and I never saw anyone that could guess readings for kids that did not have known speeds. The catcher's mitt pop or no pop, plus the herky jerky pitcher movements throw most people off.
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
No, connected to gun behind the plate. Trakman is what is recorded in their profiles/daily leaders etc.
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
Is DiamondKast velo also using that gun? Trying to figure out why the readings would sometimes be different.
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
That’s why scouts and recruiters with a budget put eyes on the prize and do not rely on the “parent centered and funded” stats.
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
That doesn't make a lot of sense as the satellite venues (mostly local high schools) don't have Trakman. I would think PG is mining the DK data for all of the profile stats, daily leaders, etc. My son threw in two games at the WWBA this summer, neither at Lakepoint, and the data in his profile matches the data in DK.
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
Velo Smelo...... the batter will let you know all you need to know....... granted 80 poo won't get you too far long term... Asked a friend of mine once how many pitchers were in camp he said "about 80" I said how many break 90? he said "about 80" velo might get you there, command keeps you there.
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
My son's DK data matches his profile as well. I was talking about the number displayed on the scoreboard at Lakepoint. DK had at least two pitchers that were different between the board and DK (DK was a mile or 2 higher). I'm not complaining, but there was definitely a discrepancy between DK and the scoreboard at LP.
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
I was replying to this statement by Go44Dad: "Trakman is what is recorded in their profiles/daily leaders etc. "
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
If you are close enough to the plate(40' or so), you can hear 90. Kind of a humming, buzzing sound. Varies a bit pitcher to pitcher. Spin rate? Never trust the pop of a glove. When I used to catch, I had one disgusting thick old glove that made a sound like I was catching Nolan Ryan. Another, like I was catching my mother. When I was trying to freak out the other team, or give my pitchers a confidence boost, I'd with the "loud one".
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
My kid firmly believes this. He makes sure the mitt pop echoes to the other dugout during the warm up pitches. Not so much to intimidate but to give his pitcher confidence
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
Speaking of hearing it. My son watched a guy throw this summer at 98-100 and said it was crazy the sound the ball made as it went by. He said I've never been intimidated watching/hearing someone pitch like that day.
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Re: PG Showcase Radar Readings
Was at a big PG tournament in Ft Myers this fall. One of the dads didn't like the radar readings so went up to the guy(kid) behind home plate taking them and told him he needed to have his gun re calibrated. Off the guy went. He came back and, in fact, the gun had been reading low. (FWIW my kid isn't a pitcher.)
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Re: Interference with Stalker Sport 2
Yes, the Stalker Sport 2 seems to read about 1.0-1.5 MPH slower at 80+ MPH in our experience compared to a Stalker 2 Pro (the main scout gun these days). I've tested these products in so many different ways anyone else would go insane (various JUGS, Stalkers, Trackmans, Rapsodos, etc). We have industrial fluorescent lighting but I'm not actually sure that's the issue. I think the Stalker 2 Pro is just a better / hotter gun.
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Re: Interference with Stalker Sport 2
That is fantastic to hear! (said the dad whose son's recent readings have all been with a Stalker Sport )
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Re: Interference with Stalker Sport 2
I'd say 1 MPH is a bit high. Sometimes it's dead on. The average overall is probably slightly below 1 MPH. We gunned a pro pitcher with our Stalker Sport 2 and he sat 92-94 but when we had the same gun on him for scouts, he was sitting 93-95 on the Stalker Sport 2 and 94-96 touching 97 on the Stalker Pro 2. So there's a difference, but it MIGHT only be important at 90+ MPH. It may read 70-75 MPH just fine. I am not sure.
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Re: Getting on Radar as Soph.
My 2019 RHP topped 82 as a sophomore, but not as tall as your son. Here's the path we took (everyone's is different): Played legion summer of rising sophomore and junior year, focusing on developing his craft Attend college camps in fall, after developing list of interested schools, continue email dialogue Played regional travel team and attended camps summer of rising junior year Son received multiple D1 and NESCAC offers. Sounds like the first bullet above may be important for your son, as...
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Re: Getting on Radar as Soph.
Hi and welcome to the posting side. Considering he is targeting IVY or HA D3, he has time. Combining that with the concerns you state about "playing to please rather than himself", I would continue to be patient. While baseball can help get students into certain schools, you know well that it is a heavy commitment and the desire needs to exceed the notion of using it as a vehicle to get in. No doubt you are plenty capable of evaluating the numbers, skill set and projectability. I suspect he...
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Re: Getting on Radar as Soph.
I assume you have the academics part of the equation down, but I'd have him taking the SAT/ACT as soon as possible once he's ready. Also, since you're in Maryland, there are ample opportunities for quick trips to visit lots of HA's (which seem to concentrate in the East). That will help determine the type of school he thinks he likes. Rather than showcase before he has something which stands out, I'd pay instead for top of the pack personal PC and strength trainer skilled in pitchers. My son...
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Re: Getting on Radar as Soph.
Thanks guys for the quick responses. My experience (graduated HS in 1991) was you play high school, play legion, hit a few area camps. For me, I performed well at a few camps and got an offer. It seemed much more casual than the baseball machine that exists today. It's nice to see alternative paths still exist. In the end, we're really lucky to have a good, smart kid with some choices to make. If he decides to go for it, I just want him to understand what it will take, i.e. make an informed...
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Re: Getting on Radar as Soph.
Noted on the velo Gooseg. I watch a lot of SEC and ACC baseball. They might look for 90+, but a lot of RHP I see are mid to high 80s. But you're right, low to mid 80's back in the day could get you in at a mid to lower level DI program as a RHP. Not so much today.
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Re: Getting on Radar as Soph.
So, there are a couple things your son is going to need to do to get an Ivy coach's attention. He's going to have to nail his SAT/ACTs and then demonstrate he's got the stuff to compete at the mid to low D1 level. To accomplish these things he is going to need to take care of business and focus over the next 15 months. For a HA D3 he would have more time probably 18 months. But the bottom line is this is not easy stuff, he has to have something tangible to show any college coach. For your...
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Re: Getting on Radar as Soph.
Fenway makes a great point about leading with academics; it's logistically so much easier to start with a pile of guys who have a shot of admission (as athletes) and find the baseball skills than the other way around. With that thought in mind, on all campus visits son had a sealed envelop of grades and scores (updated as he aged) to give to any baseball coach he ran into; on every campus visit on our college route he would take a whack at seeing the baseball department (alone). Tail end of...
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Re: Getting on Radar as Soph.
I recommend taking the SAT and ACT as soon as possible (summer/fall) and make sure he takes at least some challenging AP and/or Honors classes in his junior year while maintaining a high GPA. We found with our son that being able to demonstrate to HA coaches that the academic eligibility component was taken care of prior to/early in the junior year was a big advantage. They were primarily interested in weighted GPA. If your son wants to pursue it, try to attend a HA camp, such as HeadFirst,...
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Re: Getting on Radar as Soph.
Hey, couple more things...Aren't PSAT scores good enough if in 1400-1450 range to show IVY coaches? Does it have to be actual SAT? We'd prefer him to prep and take SAT in spring of Junior year. Also, what are thoughts on doing showcases PO versus PO and position as it pertains to the pitcher athlete perception. My kid has played varsity since freshman year and has been blocked in OF by upper classman so he's sort of become a PO but still has ability (not DI level) as hitter/OF. Curious to...
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Re: Getting on Radar as Soph.
Yes, they look at sophs. There are a few posters on HSBBWeb that have shared their recruiting situations with me over the years. Ivys look at many, many recruits because they have to. If a young recruit is demonstrating D1 level capabilities and has taken the SAT or ACT to meet their requirements they are going to want to talk. Remember, the Ivys are competing against other D1 schools for talent.