Tagged With "Pomona"
Topic
Evaluating Programs
My son is a RHP Class of 2017 recruit. While he really wanted a D1 Ivy, he's fielding a number of different D3 offers/overtures. At this point, he's narrowed his list down to four schools and I'm wondering if anybody here has any insight into the different programs at Wash. U., Pomona, Emory, Tufts. Thanks in advance.
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Hi Everybody, our RHP is at the end(ish) of the process and after much deliberation and visits is going to apply ED with coach support at Emory. The glitch is that Coach T is going to admissions with his recruit list on November 1 and hasn't done early reads so it feels more wishy washy than Tufts and Wash U., which both did early admissions reads. He's solid academically so I'm assuming it's going to be fine but what do we do about notifying the other schools? Do we wait? It feels impolite...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
I definitely would not eliminate any other schools or options until you get confirmation of acceptance. Like this thread has noted, there really is no such thing as "certainty" in the application process. I am not sure what Emory's timeframe is to communicate the decision, but I suspect it would be early enough to allow your son to apply Regular Decision at other schools if his application is denied. If the other coaches press him about a decision, a fair answer would be that he has enough...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
The Emory decision timeline last year was that the players who applied ED1 with coaches support were notified on 12/15 along with everyone else who applied ED1. Son's HS teammate applied with coaches support and was accepted. They knew down to the hour he'd find out on that day. I would wait to let the other two schools know after Emory does the pre-read through admissions. If they ask I would have son say that he's still working through the process and will decide the week before ED...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Thanks! Coach T left my son a vm yesterday that he's going down to admissions for him tomorrow so hopefully he can be done with the early read.
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
That's great news. Congrats on your son having such great choices and good luck!
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Those are some really, really good schools, so congrats to your son if he ends up at any one of them. Have you read this very recent thread on Pomoma? http://community.hsbaseballweb...17#38181284597847617 Tufts and Wash U have been discussed fairly recently as well. Try using advanced search and limiting it to last 2-3 years. Can't recall anything on Emory lately but they've been very successful.
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Has your son really thought through going a long way from home for college? It's not for everyone. Three of his four choices are "away." They're all great options. Does his major make a difference in his choice? Tufts would be the safe choice in terms of distance. Casey is an excellent coach. From the stands he appears difficult. Players I've talked with said he has the player's backs.
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
First off, welcome to the site. Second, as JCG has already pointed out, those are all great academic programs, with consistently strong baseball teams. If your son hasn't visited the schools, he should. He'll likely get a gut feel and move on from there. Third, RJM has repeated an often offered take on Coach Casey. "Difficult" is one of the milder pejoratives I've heard used about Casey (though I would love more specifics on what Casey does that makes him appear to be difficult. The phrase...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
As far as Emory, I've known Coach T at Emory for 10+ years. There just can't be a better guy to play for. He's a legend in the Atlanta area for being a great person as well as coach and there are thousands of young players who look up to him, after going to his summer camps. Emory is also a fantastic school obviously (I went there for grad school) and opens a lot of doors.
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Thanks for all the feedback. He's going to be visiting the three farther flung schools in the next month and yes to the admissions pre-reads. He liked Casey. We are a little leery of committing to one school in the absence of any sense of the finances but it sounds like that's what you do: apply ED. Also not sure how it would work if an Ivy circled back late in the process. And it sounds like transferring (which I'm personally not a fan of) would require not playing for a year.
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
You can ask for a pre-read from financial aid from at least some of these schools. And in our limited experience the online calculators gave a pretty good approximation. As for what happens if he commits and then an Ivy circles back, well I guess that depends on you and your son.
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
My son 2017 has been in a similar situation, although I don't think he is quite as strong from an academic comparison to really have considered the Ivy schools. At that is a relief to me since the chances of any financial aid is remote from the Ivy schools, and there is no way we could have afforded it otherwise. In our case, we are not going to do an ED application, and I wonder if you should in this situation. From what I have read here on this forum and elsewhere, you should do ED only if...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Interesting take, Backstop. Just based on a few stories I have heard here your strategy sounds like it could work great but also could be risky, if we're talking specifically about the high academic, very highly selective schools mentioned in the OP. Yes, not going ED gives you more options in April and allows you to shop or even negotiate for better financial aid. But OTOH, from stories here and from talking to coaches at high academic D3's it appears that their intent is fill their...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Applying without admissions support at any of schools makes them all a crapshoot as well, even for a great student. So I don't think we can avoid it without losing coach support and a guaranteed spot on the roster.
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
In terms of ranking based on the quality of baseball and coaching alone, how would you all rank Tufts, Emory, Wash U and Pomona? Is one head and shoulders above the others?
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
I don't see how any one person would have enough direct experience to answer that one. But just from this thread and the recent Pomona-Amherst thread, the head coaches at Pomona and Emory seem to be highly regarded. Wash U has been on our radar. As you probably know the coach is new and also seems to be well-regarded. As RJM points out Casey is a little more controversial. If you do some digging here you'll find that one of our users is bitter about his son's experience there -- but some...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Does anyone have an opinion on these three conferences and quality of baseball? University Athletic Assoc, Centennial, NESCAC. Most of the interest in my grandson is coming from these three. I know the answer might be depends on the school but is one conference considered better than the others? Any pros and cons?
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Rally, My two cents would be to pick the school based on what he wants to do after college baseball among the schools that have offered. There is still time to field additional offers, however many college coaches have shown their hands with whom they want most. You've told us which colleges your son wants, but you haven't shared which colleges want him. Whether or not to roll the dice with ED vs RD is a major decision among these schools given their very competitive admissions. Good luck...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Rally, my 2016 is headed to Tufts next Tuesday ... considered an Ivy, and a couple more NESCAC schools as well as University of Chicago, Wash U and Amherst. PM me if you want. Fenwaysouth is the resident expert.
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
We tried to keep an open mind about mediocre baseball. Like I said, the academic match is more important; it's what you're paying for. But in terms of baseball, my 2017 will be playing next year for a team that has traditionally done poorly in their league. But -- new coach + new athletic facility + lots of success in other sports = my son thinks he will be part of the group that turns the program around. If so, that could be more satisfying than joining a program that is already on top.
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Wash U, has a reasonably new coach. The old AD btought him on after letting a 30 win coach go. He wanted to compete yearly at t n e national level and he did not think the old coach ciuld get them there. So he brought in a very good coach from the WIAC. The WIAC is one of the better d3 conferences. The WIAC is made up of mostly larger state schools in Wisconsin. That AD has moved on to Illinois. So far the new coach has done well with the old coaches recruits. Pretty soon we will see how he...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Helen, I think you answered your own question. It's about the school. The only thing I'd want to point out is that the UAA schools are pretty far flung, especially for a D3 conference. Lots of travel time. That can make a student's life a little more difficult.
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Rally, I agree with JCG. Academic match is most important among these schools, so what does he want to major in? That is where I'd start. Beyond that I'd pick the school that you feel he has the best chance of playing, starting and making a contribution to the program . Here is my thought process ....I'm willing to bet your kid is going to be a lot like many of our kids on this website. He probably was one of the better high school players in the area (possibly the region), and on his travel...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Rally, stay within two hours drive of your home. Do you have a pro scout evaluation? Bob
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Fenway, I get what you are saying and mostly agree but I think you are assuming that my son is arrogant or unrealistic because I said he doesn't want to play for a mediocre program. I actually have enormous respect for his poise, clear thinking, lack of ego, and dedication. I think you are being dismissive of athletes on the site who are able to get to this level at all when you conjecture about them in a dismissive way. He doesn't want to be the big fish coming in. He's not conceited. But...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
I can't speak about any of the other schools, but as a Wash U grad who loosely tries to keep up, it appears that Wash U has committed to make its sports programs match the excellence of its academic programs. They've won national championships in six sports over the last decade, and they recently replaced a pretty successful baseball coach, presumably because they want baseball also to be a national D3 power. (Glad they didn't have that attitude toward sports when I played and the press box...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Just to amplify what JCG posted: UAA conference is far flung, but the vast bulk of their conference games are played during spring break in Florida, where everyone in the conference, except Chicago, gathers for what amounts to a League Championship round robin. Wash U, Emory, and Case Western have dominated the past five years. The rest of each team's games are against more local competition with teams from OTHER conferences. And as far as wanting a program that will challenge your son, as...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Rally, if you look at Fenways posts over the years you'll find tons of valuable experiences, insight, honesty, and objectivity. He's been around with multiple sons playing at elite schools. He gets it; I don't think he was being dismissive or suggesting your son was arrogant or unrealistic. Very friendly and objective site here; everybody is trying to help. Your son has some great opportunities in front of him. Good luck with the journey.
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Want to second this sentiment. The thing I think you need to realize is how very competitive college baseball is and how much attrition there is among the players. This includes many D3 teams. I think that's mostly what's behind Fenway's advice. When you're talking programs at the top of the food chain, including the top of the D3 food chain, you're talking about a level of competition unlike anything high school has to offer. Being in a top program, whether D1 or D3, can be a really great...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Nobody earns a D3 roster spot in the admissions office. Nobody loses one in the admissions office either. The only place those are won or lost is on the field. Consider two kids, both recruited, one applies ED, one applies RD, both get in, both show up for fall tryouts. The kid who is more game ready, more competitive, more of a stud, is going to play over the other kid, no matter through which path the two were admitted.
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
I really do hope you understand what I'm saying. You're right I know nothing about your son other than what you shared, however I do know a lot about the ins and outs of high academic baseball. I've worked with many (30+) folks privately over the years go through exactly what you are going through. High academic baseball can be difficult in ways you are not familiar with yet. I'm just trying to bring that out for you as my time at HSBBWeb is dwindling. Your son sounds like a good young man...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Great perspective Slugger. I am already starting to feel the pressure of D3 coaches suggesting ED for my son. While that may help my son's standing with the coach in terms of showing a firm commitment to the school, it still does not mean that after ED, the coach cannot find other players that might be stronger at his position and reduce his roster and playing opportunists. Like you said, Fall tryouts of Freshman year are still a long ways off and it will always come down to playing ability...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Not sure which Ivy's you are referring to but SOME (note some) of them have a 10% rule of thumb - you pay 10% of your income (not sure if it is gross or net) PLUS room and board. I.E. $100,000 income, tuition would be $10,000 PLUS room/board/books/personal expenses. Do not rule any Ivy's out because of finances. Look on their financial section of their websites and you will find this info. It is a little known fact.
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Beware of all risks/rewards associated with ED. Rally: you asked what happens if S applies ED to a D3 and an Ivy circles back? One huge downside of ED is that you have made a binding comittment (absent some narrow legal excuses or simply ignoring the harm it causes your HS) and the player is off the market if accepted. (And may be off the market while waiting a decision.) One advantage of ED in D3 is the coach has some ability to get recruits through admissions (some coaches have lots of...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
I am not an expert, my son is not applying to the very top D3 academics. That being said he has been actively recruited by some very serious D3 schools, with admission standards where he is below the average for the general class. He has been told in each case his grades and course load are solid and well balanced, admission will not be an issue.I don't know if this constitutes a walk through or not but it has been the response for him. He is over 3.0 and over 1000 on the 2 part SAT,...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Old School, My son was in a similar boat. 29 ACT and 3.5 GPA with many Honors and AP classes. All the coaches of his target schools said he would not need the coaches assistance with admittance. All they asked was he apply early action. It showed interest on the school and put him in line for merit aid earlier than RD.
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Really depends on the school. The OP asked about Wash. U., Pomona, Emory, Tufts. These kinds of schools turn down thousands of very highly qualified students every year. Unless you're one of those students who gets into every college he applies to, if you REALLY want to go to a particular school, and a coach can walk you through, that's the only way to guarantee that you'll be admitted.
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Yes for some young men the only chance is if the Coach walks them through. For some that is not enough even. But coaches pretty quickly learn what type of students they can get admitted. They also do not want to get a stud admitted if he is in over his academically, because if the kid cannot make grades he will not play.
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Thank you for all the feedback! Even with excellent grades and scores, without a coach pushing you through admissions it's too scary to apply RD though we'd really like to be able to figure in finances/scholarships as part of the equation. We're going to ask for financial aid pre reads wherever we can along with the academic reads that are happening. My son's school has very few APs and doesn't weight GPA. All classes are honors classes and he took as many APs as are offered. I could never...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
I feel like very few students get into every school they apply too. Classmate of our 2016 was a top student here at our high school, perfect ACT, lots of extra activities - she's going to Brown and starts this weekend. She was denied by Tufts. If she couldn't get in to Tufts I don't know who the heck they are accepting. And now that I think of it, I know another 2016 who was an excellent student, track star, top high school in our area - also accepted at an Ivy school (but decided to go...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Chances are the kid asked to apply ED and the coach walked his application through admissions is a preferred prospect. But he has to maintain that status when he hits the field. I know kids who got the "if you get accepted (regular application) you're on the team." Each year they were beaten out by new, incoming preferred prospects. They sat on the bench until they gave it up. This doesn't mean a kid can't be a non preferred prospect and end up being a starter. But from what I've seen and...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
For reference, YRMV..... 2016 visited his schools on his list, decided to do ED to Tufts. without saying too much.... I will paraphrase what he was told... " as soon as you hit the submit button, text me...." Financially think of the best case scenario .... particulars 6'4 200 RHP 87-88 weighted GPA 4.5 .... unweighted 4.0 ACT 34 ..... 5 AP's 3 qualified at Tufts. others in the running to one degree to another...... University of Chiraq..... Wash U, Emory, Williams, Middlebury, Mercer,...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
I know of a kid who was WAIT LISTED via RD who ended up making the team and pitching significant innings at his very, very selective school. He was in touch with the coach throughout the process, but it was unclear whether he would end up at that school until sometime after May 1st. I know of a kid who applied ED to the very same school, thinking he was being "recruited to play short stop" -- that's how his dad put it. In fact, the kid chose that school over my son's school, because he...
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
In terms of the competitiveness of the baseball programs Emory has consistently gone to Regionals and the CWS. My son's team has played then several times (actually knocked them out of the CWS the last two years) and they were a very well run and talented team. Pomona would probably be the next best team of the group you mentioned.
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
Preferred recruits get first shot. But they still have to prove they can take the step up to college ball and perform. Most will. At any level teams make recruiting mistakes.
Reply
Re: Evaluating Programs
I read from somewhere (Fiske Guide?) that some colleges play this game to boost their "yield" (i.e. accepted students who actually enroll.) They reject or waitlist the strongest applicants, because they know those applicants will be accepted by an Ivy and they will choose the Ivy. The article singled out Washington U, but no mention of Tufts. I suspect they use the same strategy, since they are in the same "runner up" category. For strong students, ED at these colleges work, since it's...