Tagged With "ulnar collateral ligament"
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Re: Could the Strasburg situation have been beeter thought out???
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Prime9: Now as only a HS amateur pitcher and the Dad of a College position player, I'm going to bow to your pitching experience gained through your son. But, I don't agree with this quote; "Wouldn't it be terrific if we really knew what could keep a pitcher from being injury free? It just doesn't work that way and mostly because all pitchers are different." The fact that pitchers are different isn't the reason some are injured. I.E. I don't think some are...
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Re: Slider
I am somewhat skepticle about "breaking pitches" hurting young kids arms. From my own experience with my son, the only time his arm hurts is when he throws long innings/ long games and has to rely on his fastball to get him out of trouble. In fact, I have had games where my son went more to his breaking pitch because as he says- "my arm was getting sore from throwing too many fastballs". My son says he can throw curveballs all day without soreness. Maybe he just knows how to properly throw...
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Re: Personal Trainers
Here's an abstract I had to write for my lower extremity evaluation class... Enjoy the reading..
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Re: Abuse of a youth pitcher question
You are correct in the aspect that some ex major league players cant coach. They dopnt know how to relay the knowledge they have not only to youth players but also Hs/college level players. However a good HS/college coach can relay his or her knowledge to any age group. Its just a matter of being able to use terms that this particular age group can relate too. As an example. I teach rotational hitting. When I am relaying to a youth player say someone 9,10,11 or 12 yrs old. I use terms like...
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Re: Abuse of a youth pitcher question
See? A slurve (part slider and part curve)especially does damage to the medial collateral ligament. The curve (12-6 roatation away from the pitcher) is thrown the same as a fast ball at the shoulder and elbow. You are not only disagreeing with me about going from pitch to another position other than catching, you are disagreeing with the scientists who have studied it. Again, trot over to ASMI. You dogmatically proclaim that harm will come with overuse. I say it may happen. How many pitches...
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Re: Jon Wilhite - injured in accident which took Nick Adenhart
I have read some articles on this type of injury and it's truly amazing how the good Lord can look over us in times of danger. Basically in this type of injury the only thing holding the head to the body is the skin and spinal column. If the surgery(ies) go well then there is a chance to fully recover because it's really no different than a torn ligament in a knee or regular broken bone. But the location of being near so many vital parts - spinal column and major blood vessels - make it very...
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Re: Tommy John Surgery
I am a sophomore in high school. I didnt have to have an actual tommy johns surgery it was to scope out scartissue from the partialy torn ligament they also scrapped a new place to put the ulnar nerve. It was about 8 months for recovery. MPH is slower but only from 86 to 83. I did get very sore and had arm fatigue but stretching and some weight training took care of that. Just do plenty of tube work and take it S-L-O-W.
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Re: Shoulder Injury
I don't think you need to jump right into an MRI. He could have just bruised his shoulder, or stretched a ligament. Do what the Dr. says, unless you just don't trust him. Then, get a 2nd opinion. To insist that you get an MRI just because you dove into a base and your shoulder is sore is a little premature, in my opinion. Rest, ice, anti-inflamatories and see what happens in a couple of weeks. This is what the Dr. recommends and is a pretty standard beginning course of treatment.
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Re: Velocity vs. accuracy for young pitchers.
I started pitching at the age of 9. I have a four-inch scar on my left arm, which was incurred when I was 21. My doctor told me, "this injury was incurred over time. Its a result of overuse that starts at a young age, and eventually, the ligament couldn't withstand the beating over the years." Then I asked him, "do you think it had something to do with me pitching at a young age, or overuse in the recent past?" to which he responded, "both, definitely." My doctor was some guy named James...
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Re: Velocity vs. accuracy for young pitchers.
You said you had scientific evidence. I dont care about opinion no matter who its from. Where is the study- the official scientific evidence in a peer reviewed journal? Find your article and we can debate it from there. As for your injury stemming from throwing at an early age? Since we are just throwing out opinions, I highly doubt you tore your UCL when you were 9 and it just never recovered but got worse through the years. From the papers I have read, it is almost impossible to tear your...
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Re: Velocity vs. accuracy for young pitchers.
Skylark, I went through this with my 2015 when he was 13. Now he's a catcher. First, I heartily agree with you that there are too many factors involved in elbow and shoulder injuries to point to a single factor, or even multiple known factors. All the studies I've ever read say the same thing. There simply aren't enough comprehensive studies yet. However, I don't think Josh's doctor told him that he "tore" the ucl at 9, he probably surmised that the ligament was gradually damaged over many...
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Re: Velocity vs. accuracy for young pitchers.
They are all good articles and I also am aware of overuse injuries. The articles main evidence points to overuse which we all know as being the main factor in injury. There really is no direct link between when a pitcher starts throwing to injury. The only direct link we know of through the various studies such as ASMI's is pitchers who pitch year round who also pitch while fatigued or injured. This isnt an age related problem as to "when" pitchers start throwing but in actuality an...
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Re: Velocity vs. accuracy for young pitchers.
Overuse that started at a young age. Thats how Dr. Andrew put it eh? So you admit your arm took a beating over the many years of overuse. Thats what I been arguing all along. I rest my case.
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Re: Velocity vs. accuracy for young pitchers.
I don't think you get it. He is saying there are contributing factors to pitcher injury, pitching too early is just one of many.
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Re: Velocity vs. accuracy for young pitchers.
More interesting reading: Prevention of arm injury in youth baseball pitchers. Kerut EK, Kerut DG, Fleisig GS, Andrews JR. J La State Med Soc. 2008 Mar-Apr;160(2):95-8. Abstract The advent of youth year-round baseball has come with an increased incidence of pitching related injury and surgery, most notably involving the shoulder and elbow (ulnar collateral ligament). These injuries become evident in high school and college, but begin at the youth level. Several studies have identified...
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Re: Continue with high school ball?
UPDATE: Finally got my MRI results back, turns out it's just a sprained UCL, no damage to the ligament. Going in to get a cortisone shot to take down the inflammation. Sounds like I will have another week of being shut down, but after that will be able to get back on a throwing program, and be back before the season ends. It's obvious I will be needed on the team this year, considering the 10 walks as a team in 6 innings of our first game. Getting on a mound for this coach still concerns me,...
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Re: TJ referral in Kansas
Kirk had surgery yesterday morning by Dr. Timothy Kremchek in Cincinnati. Kremchek is the Reds team Doc and was trained by Dr. Andrews and has well over 1,000 TJ's under his belt. His comment after the surgery was, "It couldn't have gone better." They had to use a ligament from Kirks hamstring since he didn't have the palmyrus ligament in his arm. Today at his first Phyisical Therapy appt. the PT moved Kirks arm "much further than we can normally move anyone without pain". Kirk is 100% pain...
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Re: pitch counts
Frank That’s true. Plenty of people believe certain arm injuries, particularly elbow ligament injuries, result from cumulative damage from overuse. Injuries can result from bad genetics, inadequate conditioning, overuse, climate or any combination. That being said, I don't know the specifics of his sons injury(ies). Perhaps injuries to pitchers are as inevitable as knee injuries are for footballers. I think its a good idea to do all possible, short of retiring, to minimize the risk in order...
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Re: Workouts to Increase Velocity
Kman, Real talk about Pitching..Theoretically speaking, the reality of velocity has been researched many times for many years. I studied only a 1/4 of it on my Masters Education journey. The latest research was a critique of Aroldis Chapman.. He once threw 105 MPH in triple A for the Louisville Bats. The question was, how did he do it? Here is a study done by Dr Fleisig, American Sports Medicine Institute. The biomechanics of pitching Dr. Fleisig studies the biomechanics of pitching,...
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Re: Workouts to Increase Velocity
Originally Posted by Coachfactor: Kman, Real talk about Pitching..Theoretically speaking, the reality of velocity has been researched many times for many years. I studied only a 1/4 of it on my Masters Education journey. The latest research was a critique of Aroldis Chapman.. He once threw 105 MPH in triple A for the Louisville Bats. The question was, how did he do it? Here is a study done by Dr Fleisig, American Sports Medicine Institute. The biomechanics of pitching Dr. Fleisig studies the...
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Re: Interesting news regarding ACL Tears
Just read one person state that it may actually not be too "new" and that it was a media frenzy because well that's what the media does. Speculation that it was researched in the 70's and has been named multiple things in the process which may show it really is not relevant in the big picture. We have numerous ligaments throughout our body that are simply there and don't have actual names involved. We have ligaments in our feet that are simply there, but when we injure them we don't call...
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Re: Elbow Issues Advice
Hello Young_Baller, I’m not sure of your specific age. In middle school my son had a growth-plate issue in his elbow. My basic understanding is that while the body is growing, growth-plates are the weakest point in the chain. There are definitely better explanations out there, but the growth-plate literally allows the body to grow; it allows your bones to get longer while still enabling functioning joints. As the body matures – finishes growing – the growth plate hardens and the ligament...
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Re: Unintentional Cutters?
NW Knights07 : I am having a hard time equating your TJ to the cutting action on the FB...other than the amount of time you have been off, has resulted in a slight change in your release angle of your hand / wrist on these pitches. The thumb has very little effect on pitch movement....the last finger to touch the baseball at release (middle finger) has the majority of influence on making a pitch move, especially on pitches that break away from the throwing arm (cutter, curve, slider)....the...
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Re: Ugh, elbow injury...
None of these situations are the same, so keep an open mind do your research and get informed opinions. My son is a 2014 right handed pitcher (reclassed to repeat his junior year), his story is as follows He suffered an avulsion fracture where a piece of bone to which his ulnar collateral ligament was attached broke away from his arm. After consulting numerous ortho docs, many X-rays, MRIs and the like we had no consensus on what his actual injury was. We ultimately went to Dr Andrews who...
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Re: Ugh, elbow injury...
Originally Posted by Rob T: Son (2017) has had recurring elbow pain for the past couple of months. Started around the beginning of January. He would be able to throw an inning or so, and then the next day not able to throw at all. Take a couple of weeks off and he was able to throw again without pain - throw an inning, pain would come back the next day. Family friend that is a physical therapist who specializes in pediatric athletes ran him through the stability tests and found no issues...
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Re: Growth Plate Injuries
There are some great studies done by the College of Orthepedics on "Little League Elbow". This is specifically an overuse injury to the medial growth plate of the elbow complex. This plate "usually" begins to harden between 14 - 16 years of age. An estimated 40% of youth pitchers will experience some growth plate issues according to one study! Most are generally mild and only require rest. Scaring, fracturing and detachment and the rare but potential risks. Even these are treatable by...
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Re: Growth Plate Injuries
When you're talking about a 15 year old, you are more likely to see the complex fail at the growth plate instead of the ligament because, while the growth plate is still open, the ligament is stronger than the growth plate. IOW, the complex will tend to fail at the weakest link in the chain, and that is generally the growth plate. Only after the growth plate has closed does damage to the ligament itself start to be the major problem.
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Re: Help needed
Talking to the coaches about injury may be even more important at the HS level. We've got coaches who are very concerned about preventing arm injuries but some of the kids just won't admit that their arms or knees are hurting and they end up seriously injured as a result. MoDad, Should take a little less time than for a pitcher. The pitchers typically get up to full strength before they can be fully effective pitching because of something called periopreception (sp?). Essentially the tendon...
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Re: Dislocated thumb with bruised tissue
Make sure you are doing what the doctors/trainers are telling you to do or you will have problems for a long time---don't rush it because if you reaggravate it you can be out for the season Have you had it exrayed to make sure there is no ligament damage ?
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Re: Seniors Last First Game
rz and TPM both have made excellent points and offered you good advice hitbombs . With that said it indeed has been a very heavy day here on the HSBBW. The topic of this thread reminded me that our family has been down in the dumps because our HS senior is recovering from not one, but two surgeries. The first, in September, was to repair his labrum...we were hopeful that his rehab would be done just in time to start the season. The second, done Monday, was to repair torn cartilage in his...
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Re: Mixed coaching
I guess you did not see the play the NYY Texas game other day where Pudge got taken out at home plate. He had his mask on and I am sure he was happy that he had it and all his other equipment on. Pudge got it on the knee but it also looked like the heads may have met. Both players went out of the game. notes from the game: "But Rodriguez actually came away in better shape than Murphy. While Rodriguez may be back in the lineup as soon as Thursday, Murphy is headed to the disabled list with a...
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Re: Effect of Three Different Between-Inning Recovery Methods on Pitching Performance
I am clearly no expert, and this will sound dumb ... But, is "recovery of a muscle" directly related to rotator cuff tendon tears, and UCL ligament tears? I didn't think these tears were caused by lack of muscle recovery.
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Re: Ten Week Weighted Ball Program
Originally Posted by BaseballBuddha: If anything, the only result I have seen is their arms got stronger in that they could throw the ball farther … not necessarily faster. Buddha, Just curious what you meant by this? Physics would dictate that a ball thrown farther has to be thrown faster. Maybe the effects were not translated to a pitching mound? The science on this comes from other areas of speed training where overload and under-load training has been done for years. The concerns for...
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Re: Mariano Rivera tribute
I grew up only about 5 miles from where Mariano currently resides, and have seen him many times in public throughout the area. His son is a few years younger than I am and used to train at an indoor facility that I worked at several years ago. There is a beautiful gym about equidistant from my house and Mariano's, and I used to get student discounts when I was home on college breaks from a buddy of mine who worked at the front desk. Unbeknownst to me, Mariano belonged to the same gym. During...
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Re: Unbalanced Shoulder
It seems that most athletes want to use heavy weights when working out. Those heavy weights build the large muscle groups, but do nothing for the small rotator cup muscles. When you work out with the big weights, if you don't workout with small weights and/or stretch bands to strengthen the small muscles, an imbalamce occurs. The big muscles overpower the smaller ones and literally try to pull the arm out of its socket. When the ball of the arm flops around in it's socket and is not stable,...
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Re: Stupid Coaches
Bobblehd-Your experience with your son and his ability to throw a majority of curveballs without experiencing any pain or discomfort could be attributed to a number of things. He may be one of those that has such a strong muscle,bone,ligament structure that it allows him to throw curves with more frequency than the "average" pitcher and never develop arm problems. He also-from what I've read from your posts-has very good mechanics and listens to his coach(Dad) when you notice him changing...
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Re: Bad News Today
KB, Sorry to hear about your son. I totally understand him wanting to play his senior season. I doubt if the elbow will be any problem if he hits RH. Please try to prepare yourself for the possibility of an inconclusive diagnosis next week. I am not a doctor, but my personal experience (with son and several acquaintances) is that MRIs are not very good at showing partial ligament damage of the elbow. Even with the contrast, which is a must. Search through this site for other TJ threads, and...
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Re: Cheers Sports Baseball Invitational Tournament - Northern Virginia
Liberty played for the 3rd and 4th places. Notre Dame and Monticello placed for 5th and 6th place. Oakton was 1st and StoneBride was 2nd. Baseball Notebook Ryan Weathers Layoff By Angela Watts Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, April 8, 2004; Page LZ16 Stone Bridge junior Sean Ryan couldn't believe it was raining. Again. And when word came that the Cheers Sports Baseball Invitational, which was supposed to begin Saturday, would be postponed until Monday, he was crushed. "I was so excited...
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Re: Bonds tested for steroids
Just one more thing. Why on earth would a pitcher want to use steriods; (hitters I understand). I used steriods back in the 1980's. I gained 15 lbs of muscle which increased my overall strength and speed (on the football field). However, and this is a big however, I or we always understood that this sudden increase in muscle strength made our connective tissue (tendons, ligaments) vulnerable to injury. Last time I checked, a torn pec or glut muscle has never kept a pitcher out before. It is...
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Re: Sandy Koufax
TRhit I know that he left the game because of his elbow, but was it indeed an arthritic condition or something else; i.e. tendon, ligament, etc? I read Leavy's book on Koufax which was good, although, it really didn't go deep into his injury or what problems it has caused him after he retired , if any.
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Re: Southlake Carroll vs Amarillo
I'm glad to see someone keeping the clicker on the opposing pitcher. Fact 1: Gary Hix is a good man and I know he would not sacrifice a kid to win. Fact 2: You would need to list a significant number of coaches that face this situation every year in the playoffs. Many game 1 and 2 starters come back and close in game 3. I watched it the last 3 weeks. Fact 3: It is real easy to rag on someone you don't know when you can hide behind an alias on a high school message board with no...
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Re: muscle pain
Its more off the place where he gets sore. I dont know what ligament or muscle would be there.
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Re: A note from rz1
RZ, obviously, our thoughts and prayers are with your son for a full recovery. Do be sure that he's being seen by a qualified orthopedist for not only a proper diagnosis, but proper plan of treatment. In consulting with my son's orthopedist, it is my understanding that a tear in the UCL won't heal per se, but that physical therapy can stregthen everything around the ligament and take some of the load that the torn area would normally bear. He advised us that some players with partial tears...
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Re: Throwing Splitters...Need Help
PP10, you ask for advice, tips or experience with the splitter, and I'd like to offer some. My advice is DON'T THROW THIS PITCH! Many of the pitchers in professional baseball who've had Tommy John surgery have thrown a splitter, at least a little bit. A relative who's had TJ didn't have any elbow problems until he began experimenting with a splitter. We hosted a player who's in the Minnesota Twins system last year, and while he was with us he told us that they don't allow their pitchers in...
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Re: Texas top pitching prospect
I wanted to publicly wish ST a speedy recovery. What this young man will go through physically and mentally in the next couple of years will be a gigantic challenge to say the least. But I can assure you, after coaching him for 2 summer seasons, if there is one person who could do it... it is Shawn Tolleson. His faith and hard work will no doubt get him back. As far as the post on mechanics, there is no doubt that ST delivery was different. But I would not say he threw across his body. This...
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Re: Elbow Problems
Very possible UCL injury but it could just be a sprained ligament. A sprained ligament is still a tear so one must be careful, however, it's the best-case scenario from the sound of the "pop" symptom. The inside area is the key area and thus the mention of the UCL. ICE, ICE, ICE in moderation, along with swelling reducers and such until doctors visit tomorrow at the ortho specialist. My opinion: Didn't rip it off the bone. If he stays in the game it's curtains. You did the wise thing and I...
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Re: Elbow Problems
My son is a catcher, and when his UCL let go, it happened on a single throw. He was throwing down to second between innings and felt a "pop" and burning sensation right after that. More than anything, he needs to be seen by a qualified orthopedist, soon. If he goes to a primary care physician, chances are great that they won't know how to manipulate the elbow, i.e. valgus stress, and will probably diagnose it as tendinitis or a strain. Hopefully, that's all it will be, but if he goes to an...
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Re: Elbow Problems
The primary care physician will usually say "ice, rest, no throwing for 3-4 weeks." You need to get this kid to an elbow specialist. They will push on the inner elbow to see where it hurts, then they wrack your arm in all different directions to see what is going on. For a high school aged player, they will likely (and should) do an MRI to get a better idea of what happened. I've been down this road myself as an adult and it's not fun. Keep throwing and 3-4 weeks off can easily become 6-12 ...
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Re: Elbow Problems
By the way, if the doc does a valgus stress test and they have to peel him off the ceiling, or revive him, that's not a good sign. I can remember when Dr. Akizuki (SF Giants team doc, and one of the best elbow guys around) checked my son's elbow, he had him turning beet red, then sweating, then about to pass out. Dr. A's words "BAD sign!" His UCL was torn in two places. He's been trowing for a while with a partial tear that caused no pain, so nobody knew about it. The second one partly...