Tagged With "ulnar collateral ligament"
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Re: Finally had his Tommy John Surgery
I have heard this being the case. And I think you are absolutely right on about a lot of it being due to the strengthening activities. I did a presentation back in September on shoulder and elbow injuries in baseball players and this topic came up in discussion. It was brought up that some parents were having their kids have Tommy John even though their ligament was perfectly fine! For this reason-- velocity is often greater post-surgical. Just do the exercises!
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Re: Somethings buggin me a little
It seems to me amateurs have enough trouble getting the ball in the catcher's mitt properly let alone attempting to precisely "hit" someone in a "spot" where they won't be injured. What young ballplayer can be expected to carry out that order with perfection? What if you throw at a kid's hip and while he attempts to get out of the way of the pitch, he tears his ACL or some other ligament in his body? Are some messages worth that kind of damage? What if attempting to hit a kid, you miss and...
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Re: Finally had his Tommy John Surgery
I would be surprised if it "heals itself." Ligament has a very small healing chance. And with it being a "complete tear" I would all but rule out it healing itself. On the other hand, the surgeon may be waiting for the bone bruise and tendon damage to possibly heal first... I would say at this point you have two choices: follow this surgeon's plan or get another surgeon to take a look. Good luck.
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Re: Landing leg
NIC15, The goal is to keep learning. I normally stay out of the traditional mechanic posted arguments but jump in when a youth player or concerned parent asks for advice on these injurious mechanics, what they produce and why. I would like to see all youth players have a chance to see the information even if Dad does not want them to. I realize this is new information and will cause consternation and thought, I see this as a positive. How can you write this and then respond? I want you to...
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Re: Tommy John diagnosis
I appreciate all the info. That's why I have loved the HSBBWeb since finding it. 20dad and Bulldog19: 9-12 months to be back on the mound, but not necessarily throwing competitively. The 18-month mark is allowing a gradual build-up to pre-injury pitch counts, as well as getting the "feel" of each pitch and the control back. He could be back on the mound in 12 (best-case scenario); but it could take longer. From the information I've found, 18 months is more realistic for an amateur pitcher to...
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Re: Tommy John diagnosis
c27mom, Good point about it taking a long time for the control to return in some cases. That's one of the reasons some doctors try to tie the "old" ligament to the replacement tendon in some cases hoping to retain the "feel".
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Re: Tommy John diagnosis
catcher27mom, thank you for sharing your son's experience. His pitching seems to mirror what many here and in other areas say is quite normal. And, you're right, the best we as parents can do is to be there for them. 20dad, thank you. You are also right. The best advice we're getting from virtually everyone is to allow the rehab to proceed at its own pace. We need to take a very long view and allow the ligament to heal and "learn" its new job. If that means son's senior year looks very...
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Re: Tommy John diagnosis
Bear, that is both good and bad (small grin). Regaining the full range of motion will be the first positive. Having to train the tendon to become a ligament, and the strength and conditioning, will be the true test.
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Re: What now? Lost summer
I would propose that, for diagnosis, there is not much difference in an orthopedic surgeon vs an orthopedic surgeon who has a sub-specialty practice in sports medicine when it comes to an MCL. Each can diagnose the condition in the knee. Neither, other than length of practice and quality of the MD, necessarily has greater expertise in diagnosing the knee condition based on the existence of the Sports Medicine sub-specialty. The Sports Medicine orthopedist probably will have more current...
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Re: Velocity for age 10
TPM, Every time we've had a chance to work on my son's velocity for an extended period of time he's added velocity. When he stops making the effort to throw hard on a somewhat regular basis and especially when he's throwing a lot of innings and can't safely throw pens it tends to get inconsistent. He's probably near his genetic limits at this point topping out at 88. He projects to top at about 91 according to multiple sources and we'd like him to get there sooner rather than later but for...
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Re: Velocity for age 10
GBM, I see nothing wrong with "short" pens every other day a total of 3 times a week. If it becomes every other day without that 2 days or more of rest on occasion then there's some added risk of cumulative tendon or ligament damage and it isn't going to show up right away.
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Re: Tommy John diagnosis
Update: Surgery went well yesterday. The surgeon had to use a donor tendon. He said that son's was just too short to use doubled-up. Surgeon stated that the new ligament is the perfect length...he used the screws in order to get it as tight as possible, and he also used the remaining ends of the old ligament to weave into the new. From what I've read, using the old ligament in this way helps the new ligament to send the "spatial" messages to the brain. This allows the brain to know what...
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Re: The Convention on Over-Use
JD, I have some questions that I hope can fit into the discussion somehow. Most of it centers around the UCL because I get the impression that this is the most common injury in terms of surgery and I believe it may be mistreated somewhat. If indeed UCL injuries are caused by fatigue as the statistics apparently suggest, what is the mechanism for injury? Why are players more susceptible to injury while fatigued? What are the qualitative and quantitative signs of a fatigued pitcher? Does the...
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Re: The Convention on Over-Use
CADAD, I believe your description of how the UCL is impacted by muscle fatigue is correct. I would like to see a similar piece come out of ASMI as part of a UCL primer to help inform parents on proper arm care. While fatigue may be somewhat nebulous, ligament physiology is well defined and understood. But when rest, ice and ibuprofen are recommended treatments for ligament injury As they are on Dr. Andrews stop sports injuries website, I become less hopeful that more serious injuries can be...
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Re: The Convention on Over-Use
Jdfromfla, I am very appreciative of your effort here but as you see you have already been asked to eliminate our contentions! Go figure. This is a main sticking point unless you rename the condition as “injurious mechanic limitations” instead of “over-use” that does not occur performing a non-injurious mechanic in young adults. A healthy mechanic cannot be over-used in such a minimal effort work to rest interval athletic as with pitching. Only your capacity is limiting. Neither is anybody...
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Re: The Convention on Over-Use
Actually according to Dr. Jobe revascularization of the tendon used as a ligament replacement is one of the keys to a successful outcome. Then again he's not a kinesiologist so what would he know?
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Re: Progress of the College Season
Thanks to everyone for the well wishes. I am certainly glad the injury is not of the ligament and thus doesn't require surgery. I started the physical therapy program today and didn't experience any pain, although we went very easy. It is incredible how weak the muscle feels and how little I can do. My range of flexibility is gradually beginning to increase, and today was the first day I was able to straighten the arm completely without wincing in pain. I realize that there is a huge gap...
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Re: ACL Rupture
Gotwood4sale- what we were told by Dr. Lehman and confirmed with some Google research is that the hamstring will become a stronger graft than the cadevar, however it takes out 1/3 of the hamstring. They cut it into three strips and braid it together. This will (supposedly) create a loss in strength, power, speed, and quickness with that leg that may never totally recover. We're hoping that the patella is OK and can be used. The risk of the cadevar is that the graft/ repalcement ligament will...
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Re: Q&A Tommy John Surgey
Danny Boydstron, This decision needs to be made as soon as he gets his Dr.’s release to begin rehab, usually between 10 to 12 weeks after the surgery. In the past a conservative approach was used and the pitcher did not start pitching competitively for 18 to 24 months. During this period in the past Dr.Marshall had his recovering pitchers back with in 11 months pitching competitively. Now recovery times have caught up to Dr.Marshalls recovery timelines. Dr.Marshall is the one who taught...
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Re: Bullpen session during week
JMO, but I disagree with the throw everyday philosophy. The arm needs some rest for the muscles, tendons and ligaments to recover. I realize that very, very light throwing is not likely to hinder the recovery much but taking a day off or even better two days off after hard throwing isn't going to set a player back, while continuing to throw has the potential to result in that ligament or tendon not getting the rest needed to heal properly. It varies from player to player. Different people...
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Re: ACL Rupture
Driller, just a caution here.. I love to see athletes return to the sport they love. That's my goal and something I really look forward to as well as they do. But I am real leary of any athlete returning from ACL surgery at the 4 month mark. The research has indicated that the ligament is actually at its weakness in that 4-6 month range. I find that really interesting especially considering we send those athletes back typically in that window. My experience has been you're looking at 10-12...
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Re: The Convention on Over-Use
Jdfromfla, Is that it? Where do you put the number for 13’s and under’s? Lets get this thing rolling, if not then how about some conclusions? Or is 85 the number? All the other sites fizzled out and I don’t know where to go for the PDF? Like I said I’m OK with the term over-use when dealing with growing youth players and their bone deformation but not once the growth plates have fused then the term should change to “mechanical Mal-practice “ or something that actually fits because, if you...
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Re: elbow issue - ulnar nerve subluxation.......
You original post stated categorically that the ulnar nerve is flat out "rerouted" in all Tommy John surgeries. That is incorrect. It is rerouted in ulnar nerve impingement situations as discussed in an earlier post, and in SOME TJ surgeries, but generally only if there is evidence of ulnar nerve impingement. It is not done as a matter of course in all TJ surgeries. The philosophy that most surgeons have now is to keep the surgery as minimally invasive as possible. That's why some guys like...
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Re: elbow issue - ulnar nerve subluxation.......
This is my understanding why the nerve is rerouted away from the groove in the elbow where it normally sits. This is also why ML players who had older TJS are having nerve transposition, to correct tingling and numbness amd elbow pain, caused by the ulnar nerve. Son did not have ulnar ligament (TJS) replacement, where did I mention that? I said he had nerve transposition, as he had the beginning of cubital tunnel syndrome. Yes, the nerve can be damaged, so make sure you know whose moving...
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Re: Summer ball...
Despite the fact that it is no longer summer (I am reminded of this everyday by the tundra that I seem to live in being in New York), I want to post an update on this thread since it has been a while. First off, I haven't been posting as much on the site recently. My participation on this site during the offseason largely involves reading...whether the purpose is to learn techniques that others are doing, events that are taking place, or just fun little conversations back and forth through...
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Re: Finally had his Tommy John Surgery
I have one of my athletes who is currently in the beginning stages here. She heard/felt a "pop" while stretching about 10 days ago. She is a high school softball player. I evaluated her the day after the incident I believe and my evaluation concluded that she had sprained her ulnar collateral ligament. We won't really know the extent of the damage until the results from the MRI come back. She got the MRI done on Tuesday. I realize it's quite nerve-wracking for parents waiting on the results...
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Re: 10 year old throws 150+ pitches-again
Actually many pro pitchers have ulnar ligament and nerve issues then shut down to rehab, hoping to avoid surgery, most will pitch with bad ligaments unless it becomes too painful and grouchy. Same way with college pitchers, it's really a bummer to have to take time off after you have worked so hard to get where you wanted. Yes the operation is successful but it still takes a pitcher a while to come back. Major (notice I said major) shoulder surgery usually signals an end to a pitchers...
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Re: 10 year old throws 150+ pitches-again
My son has had 3 surgeries since he became a professional, one was a scope to find where pain was coming from, much fraying of the ligament which can be typical of a pitchers arm and cleaned up. The following year the same thing, found an impingement and they shaved his cortacoid bone, this fall to move the ulnar nerve, was beginning signs of possible damage because of the constant slipping in and out of the groove (elbow) and now sidelined again for sore shoulder (same place as impingement...
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Re: Scott Silverstein
Steve, that's great news and not just for Scott. It's always encouraging to see others come back from this particular injury. There was a time when the elbow ligament injury was a career ender. The advent of Tommy John surgery and the improvement in that technique and the recovery approach have gotten that to where people have great confidence that a pitcher will actually return to form. Not so long ago, a labrum tear was a career ender. Thanks to advances in sports medicine, that is no...
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Re: help, whats going on?
You don't have pain now but did you have a sore arm for a while in the past? There are shoulder and elbow injuries that could lead to that type of loss in velocity and yet not hurt once the the ligament or tendon involved was fully torn. As far as mechanics go I'd recommend trying some long toss and seeing how far you can throw the ball compared to how far you threw in the past. Your mechanics are less likely to be significantly different when long tossing. If you can throw just as far as...
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Re: throwing mechanics
Here is what my friend the orthopedic surgeon told me in his own (very technical) words regarding my theory of hyperabduction... In the position of hyper abduction, elevation and extension of the distal humerus above the shoulder (inverted W) the inferior glenohumeral ligament is placed on stretch. The humeral head must lever against it to advance the arm forward. This ligament is the primary anterior stabilizer of the glenohumeral joint with the arm elevated (i,e. pitching). In other words,...
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Re: playing with an injury requiring surgery
man, you must not have fully torn it or you'd be on crutches. I partially tore my acl, and did some cartilage damage, and I couldn't even walk on my knee hardly, much less run on it. I did physical therapy for a couple months, and no improvement, and then one day it popped out of place and went right back in, and I said I'm getting surgery, I don't care. I had arthroscopic surgery last septmeber to remove all the pieces of tendond and ligament floating aorund as well as smooth out the...
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Re: Arm Action is King
My problem with Drysdale isn't that he threw sidearm. Many guys do that and have long careers. My problem with Drysdale is with what he's doing in these photos... In particular, notice the height of the PAS elbow and the significant M. Neither Maddux nor Ryan did anything close to this. Inflammation is different than muscle, tendon, or ligament tears. The stories I have read suggest that Koufax's problems were significantly more serious than that. For example, people talk of his entire arm...
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Re: Arm Action is King
Here's an e-mail I recently received discussing the Inverted W and my theory of Hyperabduction... Chris I am an orthopedic surgeon, and would like to offer you a theory on why the inverted W is bad to the long term health of the shoulder. In the position of hyper abduction, elevation and extension of the distal humerus above the shoulder (inverted W) the inferior glenohumeral ligament is placed on stretch. The humeral head must lever against it to advance the arm forward. This ligament is...
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Re: Arm Action is King
Chris. Was this ortho aware of what I've pointed out many times to you? What I mean is that this position of "hyperabduction" in the M or inverted W happens for only a brief moment in the delivery and that any forward motion of the humerus or any external rotation of the humerus is very, very small while the arm is in that position. Any forward motion of the humerus or significant external rotation happens AFTER the humerus has already dropped to shoulder height, or lower, in some instances.
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Re: College Programs Influenced By the NPA
Not even the best of exams/testing illustrated complete separation of the ligament; they couldn't tell until they opened the elbow. The key to recovery was daily workouts with free weights leading up to 40, 50, 60# dumbbells. The underlying scar tissue is undetectable to the touch now.....unlike my bi-lateral hernia repairs.
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Re: Curveballs
4 seamer, Then Let’s get real serious here! Depends? How many is the number? The youth injury rates have gone up 5 fold in ten years. This is why when prestigious firms like ASMI gets it wrong with every recommendation because they promote over-use as a culprit instead of the mechanics it shows their real competence but they are learning and they will eventually discover it also. If your mechanics are injury free you can only suffer from diminished capacity and in human beings that is huge.
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Re: Curveballs
4 seamer, Just the supinated ones, be scared from those. He can learn throw all the pitch movements to the glove side and to the ball arm side of home plate by pronating your drive and release even with a traditional leg lift! That’s a start? I was hoping for your child you would now test it? This pitch is powerfully pronated usually? Very good! This is good; it gives him the best chance of pronating voluntarily! You need to High-speed video him and see if he is supinating the drive and...
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Re: sportsmanship
That guy went 4 and 0 after tearing over 75% of his ligament in his pitching arm. that guy was an all district first baseman at 5 ft 8 with cleats on. That guy has played baseball with all these IR kids since he was 7 years old, without getting tossed in hundreds of games, that guy is moving on to college to play golf so I can tell you this, that guy has enjoyed playing baseball at IR ( loved it) but by next years regional, even that guy will have let it go by then, maybe you guys should also.
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Re: Marshall mechanics
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Yardbird: wvmtner, I did not know about the tall ones injury. . I'm surprised most people heard something but they all were saying he blew his shoulder out. Do you keep in touch with Jim at West Coast? Just got off the phone with hime 1/2 hour ago. Kev will be down in Pasaden throwing with them in Jan. I was upset..pitch/catch He didn't didn't really chose pitching. He used it as another option. He just wanted to play. I think if one or two different teams would...
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Re: Marshall mechanics
wvmtner, ” I'm surprised” Don’t be I’ve been out of the field loop for 4 years now. “Do you keep in touch with Jim at West Coast?” Yes and if you are with them, Kev is in great hands! “Kev will be down in Pasaden throwing with them in Jan.” I heard Lenny has moved on, who is Kevin working with? ”Honestly, I didn't know there was a controversy over the bottom half “ Well, lets just say it seems like it’s the last straw with regards to adding in the last component tenet for traditional way...
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Re: Why do pitchers run?
Can anyone tell us the state that lactic acid comes into play? I find it hard to believe that lactic acid is an issue for a pitcher if you understand energy systems. Is long distance running good or bad for baseball players? Baseball is a power sport with many short explosive bursts of energy. Long distance running works your aerobic energy system, a system that is never used in baseball. Some studies show that it can actually cause a decrease in speed. Sprints are a much more effective when...
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Re: Marshall mechanics
MTS, I went there to get Sport Specific training advice from training experts and found none. Their training regimen emphasis trains all around fitness that specific performance training applies differently. I’m sure the time spent there by me and them with that brief Marshall experience benefited both of us. I challenged the moderator after he went and visited Marshall to comment in depth about all the sport specific drills that they performed and their application and I got one-liners...
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Re: players at spring training
Looks like he tore a ligament in his big toe first day in freak accident and needs surgery.
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Re: players at spring training
The diary by Dirk is an absolute blast !!!! Am embarassed to say that if he is related to one of our websters, I am unfamiliar with him (or his roommate). But I can say that if baseball doesn't work for him, he should strongly consider a career in comedy and/or writing. He is gifted. By the way, Innocent Bystander , WHO tore a ligament in their big toe? (Sorry ... ignorant on that as well).
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Re: Sore Arms "in general"
I'm not a doctor...I want to be clear on that. In my estimation his pain is probably a slight strain or stress of the Ulner Collateral Ligament in the arm. ICE the inside of the elbow and rest it when possible. Make sure proper and extensive arm warm-up is taking place before throwing. You may want to get him either an armband or a light dumbell to use for warmup prior to throwing. In place of a dumbbell, you can use a tennis ball cannister filled with dirt and wrapped with duct tape. If the...
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Re: 2010 College Commitments
Ditto Matt - get to an orthopedist, don't try to be a hero... Your previous comment of a "twinge" down the arm could be a nerve thing and not a ligament thing. My oldest son had what's known as Ulnar Transposition surgery (google it). It's very common with kids who pitch and have had an injury that's healed. The nerve goes over the old injury and you get that sensation like someone "hit your funny bone". You can massage this manually by bending your elbow and finding the nerve in between the...
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Re: rotator cuff surgery
lodi, these bone spurs are troublemakers. My son had TJ when he was only 15, and Doc Andrews came out after surgery and gave me a small bottle with a bone spur in it. Said that this was rubbing and tearing his ligament for probably a couple of years, and then on one day and one pitch it was over. OhComeOn, best of luck to your son during his recovery.
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Re: Who is the best agent?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chill: I was just reading about the Pujols deal and the Blalock deal. How often to clients follow an agent's advise to a T? And, how often do client's go against the advise of an agent, as in Blalock's case? Hard to give you a number. Usually, Players will follow your advice depending on the situation i.e. how long you've been their Agent & has your "track record" been more right than wrong. I believe Blalock switched Agents just a couple of years ago so maybe...
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Re: Elbow Surgery
joedaddy, I'm raptor's mom. Wanted to let you know that he had surgery on 7-2-04 by Dr. Fanton with SOAR group in Redwood City, CA. Upon exploration of this ligament, he determined that the ligament was in very good shape so he just reattached it. Dr. gave him 6 months and then back to pitching. Quite a bit brighter than the tj surgery rehab. He's at pt 3 times a week for several more weeks. School just started so he'll be busy with that. The other good news we got is that 4 colleges have...