Tagged With "Velocity"
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I guess we all want to think our kid is "Elite" and wonder why he doesn't have an offer to the power 5 school in 8th grade. Having been on here for several years now, I think the majority of kids are well outside that demographic. Most people on here are here to help there kid play baseball as long as they can, where ever they can. This gets back to the "dream school" discussion, early offers, and all the other things that go into this baseball recruiting world. What is great about this site...
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As I said, my son never used the weighted ball program, but someone earlier in this thread said their coach pulled out a radar gun had the kids throw weighted balls and everyone was sore the next day. I've never heard of anyone using a gun with weighted balls.
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Actually both Driveline and Baseball Ranch both use the gun with weighted balls. I believe both overload and underloadRemember these programs are all about tracking and measuring progress. There are lots of impacts on the athlete's mental game as well and progress tracking plays a big part here too. I've seen the impacts on my son physically, mentally, and pitch quality. I'm a big believer. It will be the future IMO
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Tom House wrote about this once but anyone ever experience a difference with a bite guard in? Our team did a throwing program (long toss and exercises) in the fall. My son had picked up a little velocity (not much) but on the last, based on something I had read here I think, I had him do one of this last throws with an under armour bite guard in and he threw 4-5 mph faster then repeated it 4 times in a rose. Not sure if it was real or placebo but the coaches thought it was interesting.
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For 4-5 mph I think my son would be willing to wear a full football helmet on the mound! Did anyone else on the team try it?
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One kid showed up with his football mouth guard for the next practice, but all they did was hitting..LOL. We have been indoors not using radar guns since that day..it was the last practice. I will say that my kid probably was finally feeling healthy on that day after a very long season where he pitched and caught a ton. Can't wait to try it again in the spring. Also note this is 2023 going from mid sixties to just under 70. Not a HS age kid going from 86 to 90. We were using ...
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Lots of good advice in this thread. FWIW, I echo the advice re Driveline...I'm a big Driveline fan (son has been up to 93mph/D1 commit/HS Jr.). We've also done the Ranch. Spot on re using the MarcPro for recovery too. Again, a lot of good advice.
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Never heard of this but sounds interesting, i dont think my son would do it but im gonna ask him on his next bullpen. Driveline opinion below: https://www.drivelinebaseball....e-fastball-velocity/
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My son has not showcased and will not until he hits some numbers we have in mind that would make it worth it. He is closing in on the hitting end not so much with pitch velocity. We have yet to try driveline but seriously considering the $400 deal. Given the amount we have spent over the years... I will certainly ask him to throw with his football mouthpiece in - that's free, what is there to lose? In short we are willing to try about anything or at least entertain it. Not mechanically...
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Most velocity gains I'm guessing is attributed to growth spurts. A 5'11 170lb kid is probably going to throw way harder than his former 5'2 120lb self. I'm curious if any adult has ever tried a velocity program without a previous injury that increased their velocity?
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Not sure of any adults and I think one could debate when adult starts all day long. I agree that pre HS and for some kids even into HS they gain a lot of velocity simply through maturity. With that said there are lots of examples of post HS pitchers (college and pro) who gain velocity and some even significant amounts through hard work and specified training.
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What was his velocity? Aren't there pitchers in the Majors who aren't the fastest but have great movement? I truly don't know the answer to that.
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I would echo that. My 2018, has managed to sit where he topped the previous season with an average of 5lbs per year from Freshman to current Junior year at 6-2, 185.
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Dadof3 my observations, which should NOT be taken as fact, is that there are some MLB pitchers that hang out around the 88-92mph mark, and they do have deceptive movement, but they once upon a time threw a magic number to get them in the door, and that number isn't 85mph. There have been many stories on here about two pitchers. One is crafty, lots of movement and can hit his spots, he peaks at 85mph. Another pitcher is fairly wild, not always sure where his pitches will land, but he throws...
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Respectfully disagree. We all read about guys on here who either through tweaking of mechanics or weighted baseballs or just plain working out/aging add speed to that fastball. I believe you can "teach 92" because it happens every year.
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Got to cut out the whoa is me stuff because no one is going to recruit anyone's kid when their folks have that attitude. justbaseball hasn't been around in a while, but as some are aware, he has 2 sons in professional ball. You all should check out Tyler Davis, attended Washington State. Tyler has 15 major accomplishments as a college player in his bio. Did I mention that he didn't really add on velo until after he was drafted? I don't remember him hitting anywhere close to 90 out of HS, yet...
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It happens but it also depends on the body. Not everyone can gain the same. A super lanky 6“4 guy who thows 85 might still get interest
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PLENTY of bigger, lower velo guys get attention, sign Power 5 D1 and/or get drafted. Even RHPs. You've heard it here, pro ball can develop players and college usually prefers to have kids who can contribute sooner. Plenty of D1s have pitchers who may touch 90 but live below it and there are plenty from either side that are 85-88 and throw 4 pitches for strikes.
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What is my son's velocity? You can PM me. It's not good. If I wanted it advertised we would showcase!! If you look up what is average at PG events for his age it is almost on the nose. As for MLB... what passes for slow is really really fast. A guy who tops at 92 or 93 is considered that crafty pitcher. Even Mark Buhrle topped at 92 or 93 (maybe not his last couple years) but CHOSE to throw in the 80's and let his cutter and curve work. But when he needed to he could reach back and get that...
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We need to separate college from MLB. This is 100% true. There are a bunch of guys even D1 who aren't even capable of hitting 90. I have said a million times on here it is a complete and total myth that everyone in D1 throws 90. And 85 or 86 is that number I have said many times can get you there. Not gonna pitch on sunday for a power 5 probably but some mid to low D1 will pick you up for sure if you are 85 and great pitchability.
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2020 you are confusing cruising and touching. Touching 85 is not gonna get many people to D1. PG listings are 'touching'.
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Not confusing it at all. I am a research nut. Way over analytical as anyone who knows me can tell you. Now I am talking about what it takes to get in - not what the finished product looks like as a junior in college. I am looking at the perspective of what it takes to get a roster spot at a D1. Now most kids still gain some velo in college. So I am talking about topping 85 or 86 in high school and getting your foot in the door. And if you take college rosters (not top 25 type schools...
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P.S. I will go one step further, when you get to mid and certainly lower D1 a lot of those kids don't even have PG or PBR profiles, never showcased apparently. Now how many kids who have NEVER showcased do you think are throwing say 86+? Some no doubt. Probably some outliers out there who are 90+ and never showcased but they are rare. Most of those kids without profiles are probably low 80's.
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Son's school is top 40, consistent Regional participant as of late and from what I have seen it would support 2020dad. Most guys in first two scrimmages of spring topping over 90 but lots of those guys showed up as freshman topping 85-86. Son's school very much known for development and they are confident in their methods so maybe they are an outlier but 85-86 out of lots of body types can become 90+ with the right training IMO
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I don't disagree that 86 will get your foot in the door at a mid to lower D1 assuming you can pitch. Also, when you are touching 86, you need to be sitting not too far below that figure - say 83-84 and not 80-81. Most of these "top" speeds are probably getting measured the summer as a rising senior so there is still a good 12 months before the kid would set foot on campus and maybe 30 months before a kid would be expected to step up as a starter (spring of sophomore season). My take is that...
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Ok, update... Just looked at our only D1 in wisconsin, UWM. 12 RHP (left lefties out to avoid crafty lefty conversation) on the roster. Four had no profiles at all they were 6-2, 6-4 and two at 6-5. Their tallest pitchers!! Taking a flyer on projectability? That's my guess. If you are 6-5 and throwing 88 in high school you showcase. Lets be reasonable and agree that at least three of those four were mid 80's possibly below. The other 8 were 6-0, 6-1, 6-2 (4), 6-3 and 6-4. Velocities: 90, 89...
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Totally agree with backstop and screwball. In the long run I am of course concerned with one kid mainly, my own! Our goal will remain 85. For him that will take some doing, not gonna come by wishing. But I think its at least possible. Given his size I think that will get him in the door. Then its up to him to work and develop to actually get innings. Now the question may become how many football programs would let him be a PO in college? Anyone have insights on that?
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All those that top out in the mid 80s are not equal. Perhaps another way to look at it is to figure out how many 90+ are not recruited by DI colleges? How many mid 80s are not recruited by DI colleges? So academics not considered, pretty much all the 90 guys will get DI offers. Most of the mid 80s guys will not get a DI offer, but many will. Also keep in mind when we see a DI pitcher topping out at 86, it doesn't mean that is all he is capable of. Often pitchers throw below their max...
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PG would you mind clarifying a couple things? First when you say 'offer' do you mean scholarship or just any roster spot? And what is it you see as the differentiating factors for the glut of mid 80's guys? Projectability is #1 I would guess, simply don't see a lot of short guys throwing mid 80's going D1. But what comes next? Do you think spin rate is on the near horizon? I would love to hear what you see as far as what they are looking for or maybe more appropriately for the last few spots...
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Unbelievable how we went from rarely any HS kids hitting 90mph 20 years ago to what it is today. Back then if you threw 90 you were considered a phenom. Ryan Mills threw low to mid 80s as a senior, touched 90 once (after impromptu weighted ball training) in front of scouts and got drafted in the 13th round by the Yankees in '95. Ended up throwing 95 in college and got drafted #6 by the Twins. Nagging Injuries and I believe a refusal to have TJ surgery (which at the time was extremely...
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2020Dad, you might find this worthwhile: http://community.hsbaseballweb...r-at-certain-schools All the velos listed were summer before senior year, or senior fall ( unless the kid had a higher velocity from a prior time period, in which case i Used the higher velo). It's my only useful contribution to this community! In my mind, in considering what is a viable option for my son, I discount the lowest one or two kids at any particular school, because who knows what special circumstances led...
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My '18 RHP/OF is a very low mileage pitcher, used as a closer to date and would get an average of 20-30 pitches per weekend and had one start in summer ball with 10 weekends (50 games for the season). He played in 28 high school games last spring with 11 total innings. Last summer he was 86-88 and touched 90 several times in August. He chose to take a different approach as he had ZERO interest. Last August, he dropped fall ball in lieu of working out to gain functional strength and mobility,...
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My '18 RHP/OF is a very low mileage pitcher, used as a closer to date and would get an average of 20-30 pitches per weekend and had one start in summer ball with 10 weekends (50 games for the season). He played in 28 high school games last spring with 11 total innings. Last summer he was 86-88 and touched 90 several times in August. What were the starters throwing during high school?
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His varsity team was comprised of 17 seniors, many of whom pitched. 5 went on to JUCO, the top was a LHP (84-86). That being said, 9 juniors also cycled through from jv in order to obtain a varsity letter to wear their senior year. He was the only underclassman that played all spring at the varsity level.
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to answer an earlier question... An offer in our world involves a scholarship of some type. But it could be a preferred walk on offer as well. I keep hearing about these guaranteed roster spots but don't really consider that an offer. They are often used by colleges that are extremely expensive and that aren't very competitive. Getting a good student that can pay for college is more important than getting a good player at some colleges. If we watched 20 mid 80s pitchers, there would always...
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I always wonder about the term "quick arm" or "fast arm" . . . can anyone explain what this means, or point to examples?
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Sorry for the hijack off velocity...This is in reply to PG's comments about "guaranteed roster spots". I will respectfully disagree as the father of two college ballplayers who held "offers" at D1, D2, and D3. The notion that guaranteed roster spots are "often used by colleges that are extremely expensive and not very competitive" and that this is somehow not an offer is wrong IMHO. They can be expensive and non-competitive schools or they could be inexpensive and highly competitive in my...
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I think we sometimes get caught up in the whole "gotta hit 90" thing. In truth, there are a lot of D1 programs and not so many 90mph throwers that every school has a abundance of them. We visited two Mid-majors this weekend and watched their scrimmages. They are basically a week away from their first game. Both schools had radar displays. At school one, we didn't see their #1, but did see their #2 - #5 pitchers. None hit 90. Two of them, one a lefty, sat 82-83 and hit 85 a couple of times.
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This time of year you won't see a lot of guys throwing their best stuff. And you and Shoveit4Ks are right, there aren't that many 90 guys across the board. PG as always hit the nail on the head.
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I agree and would like to add, in my experience, while watching my "in state" SEC program go toe to toe with a top SEC program last season, the difference was the in state had 3-90+ guys and the rest of the staff was 85-88 on average, where the top program seemed to run freshman after freshman that were all mid 90 guys and never got to the starters.
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I probably shouldn't have said what I did about guaranteed roster spots. I just don't know how a competitive program can honestly do that. I coached small college baseball for several years and never, not once, ever guaranteed a roster spot or anything else. If someone I wasn't recruiting asked for one, I wouldn't even want that player. How much confidence does a player have if he needs a guaranteed roster spot. What if I guaranteed a roster spot to someone that became a cancer to the team?
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I am a very strong booster of the Driveline Program. My son was a devoted participant in Kyle's early iterations of the program, beginning his 13U summer when coming back from a "Little League" elbow case. He stayed with it through high school and was an extremely effective pitcher in HS. He was up to 87 off the mound by mid Senior season at (then) 5'7" 160 and surrendered one ER in his last HS season. His bat and speed got him recruited as a CF, but he still uses some of the Driveline...
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University of Washington. Confusing the two is somewhat like confusing Wake and Clemson.
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PG, I have great respect for your input and experiences. I will respectfully add my two cents again around guaranteed roster spots... My boys want to be starters on their teams. Not roster spot holders. At no time did we encounter a coach who committed to my boys any playing time or position, only a chance to compete for such in the Spring. Every coach that offered a guaranteed Spring roster spot did that conditionally, i.e., for the first Spring only, and presuming appropriate academic,...
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You are right, lost my mind posting so late at night! No confusion distinguishing between wake and clemson!