Tagged With "Double Spin"
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Re: George Steinbrenner and Al Davis: One of a Kind
Bee> Please post my entire quote in the future and not just the portion that makes a case for your opinion. The first thing that I said in the former post was: I do not approve of the way that George treats people that work for him. With that being said I am of the opinion that father time has taken over and the Yankees are too old. You need a mixture of youth and vetrans in the clubhouse. I also feel that when George fired his son-n-law (which he deserved to be fired) things started to...
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Re: Velocity question -- a case of Physics?
The back spin is not enough to cause a FB to rise. Spin creates resistance and slows the ball in its forward motion. The weight of the ball and the forward resistance will cause the ball to drop.
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Re: Velocity question -- a case of Physics?
If you look at the gameday results you'll see that pitches thrown in the low 90s tend to lose between 8 and 9 mph, while pitches thrown in the low 80s tend to lose 6 to 7 mph. I don't know if this is due to a higher spin rate on breaking pitches or if it is due to the velocity squared term in the drag equation. My guess is a little of both, but that is just a guess. You also have to realize that the drag coefficient for a spinning baseball goes down with increased velocity, but it is...
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Re: Velocity question -- a case of Physics?
Even in the case of the submarine fastball, I would imagine that a fastball drops relative to it's initial trajectory, which I think should be the point of reference. Obviously we can take this example to the ultimate extreme and imagine throwing a fastball directly into the air, so that relative to the ground the fastball would certianly rise in that instance. But I think what we're really talking about is the ball rising/dropping relative to the initial trajectory. The studies I referenced...
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Re: Velocity question -- a case of Physics?
It is a given that a ball drops relative to it's original trajectory. A good curve generates about 16 ft/s^2 acceleration. If we assume that the backspin on a fastball can generate that much acceleration upwards then the ball is still accelerating down at 16 ft/s^2 meaning that in a half second it is going to drop about 2 ft relative to it's initial trajectory. The reality is that few, if any fastballs have that much spin and the ball drops a bit more relative to it's initial trajectory.
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Re: Velocity question -- a case of Physics?
CADad, the spin of the curve is generating a force acting in the same direction as gravity. The spin of the fastball is generating a force that is fighting against gravity. If by low release, you mean submarine, I can go with you. Low three quarter? No. And you and EH are correct, any pitch thrown will go down when compared to its original vector at release.
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Re: Velocity question -- a case of Physics?
Texan, By low release I mean a pitcher like Seaver with his knee on or near the ground at release and a low 3/4 delivery. That could be as low as 3 ft. off the ground. Now assume a tall hitter and an umpire with a high strike zone, so 5' above the ground for the top of the strike zone. Now assume a ball going an average of 90 mph and traveling 54' to the front of the strike zone, since the pitcher releases out front of the rubber and the plate is about 17" deep. We can round that to .41...
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Re: Velocity question -- a case of Physics?
It is some of those assumptions I am questioning. Give me the right to make the assumptions, and I can prove anything. 5' is awfully high for the top of the zone, even with a 6'6" hitter. What is behind the assumption of the spin giving the 16 ft/s^2 acceleration? And I don't think even Seaver released 3' above the ground. Etc, etc....
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Re: Velocity question -- a case of Physics?
Texan, A well thrown curve breaks about 18" independent of gravity. It takes an acceleration of around 16 ft/s^2 to produce that on hard curves. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Pedro Martinez gets that much spin on his 4 seam fastball, although I doubt most pitchers could. However, take a few ft/s^s off that and you aren't going to get a major change in the result. Go to the release position with your back knee on the ground, remember that when a pitcher is at that point there's very...
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Re: Teaching - See The Ball Correctly
PG, My apologies for not getting into this thread earlier, my internet has been out. I think I touched on this a while back, but in summer ball after my sophomore year of college I worked on some things that I believe help me out a great deal. My summer ball coach, Phil Swimley, who coached at UC Davis for over 30 years, did some study into vision training when he was there. What he had me start to do was really pay attention to certain things on the pitcher's uniform while I was in the box.
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Re: Teaching - See The Ball Correctly
http://www.livescience.com/health/060420_baseball_perception.html Ken Fuld, a baseball enthusiast and visual psychophysicist at the University of New Hampshire, has pored over numerous baseball studies and suggests that neither of these approaches produce optimal results. Instead, much to your coach's chagrin, you should try mimicking the quirks of the best Major League players. Major League heat At the Major League level, pitchers sling fastballs between 90 and 100 mph and sometimes a tweak...
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Re: Manny Ramirez
Gimme Manny over Arod any day of the week. With Arod, the bigger the game, the tighter the neck gets for that over-rated choker. Manny plays loose, is a much better October player than Arod can dream himself up to be or what Boras spin-doctors him up to be.
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Re: What Give You More Backspin...
I think hitting the top would be more likely to create "front-spin"...
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Re: What Give You More Backspin...
Ideally, you want top spin on ground balls and back spin on fly balls. If a hitter is trying to match the plane of his/her swing to the plane of the pitch as some teach, then usually those things are accomplished based on how the hitter has timed a particular pitch. All hitters are trying to hit the ball square on the nose(which many times results in a ball knuckling off of the bat)but of course those darn pitchers are always trying to mess up a hitters timing . Swinging down for back spin...
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Re: Anyone have experience of the overhead curveball?
You are right, his fastball doesn't have a lot movements, the only movement I can see is the Down hill movement. Which may or may not produce ground balls. It depends how much spin he put on. Other than that, there's not much in his fastball. If the flatter missed in the middle, it will be a gonna easily. Thanks, the curve should be called as a overhead curve.
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Re: Anyone have experience of the overhead curveball?
Texan: This is the way I teach my son to throw this curveball. First, grip the ball using curveball grip. Then, throw it like a overhead fastball, but at the release point, turn your wrist from 1 to 7 angle, (Note, this wrist action is against most book suggested, This is my invention), after the release, your hand is in thumb up, fingers down position, let the ball spin forward and at the end break down and tilt little bit outside. To the physics point, my understand is, when you start with...
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Re: Back Shoulder
BD, You say that you see "through and up", I'm not talking about after contact, that is the nature of the follow through and where the pitch was located. The beginning of his hip rotation is down and through. Put your arrow on the clip where he starts and see it go down from there. It sure doesn't go up from there. The point that I was making was it sounded like the player asking the question is starting his hip rotation through and up and that will make his shoulder dip towards the...
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Re: Anyone have experience of the overhead curveball?
Stardad, Your son increased his velocity 6 mph in one year. He is 14 and throwing in the 70's. If he continues at this rate he will be doing just fine. Also, you said he gets hit pretty hard. How is his location? Can he spot the ball? Does he throw a 2 and 4 seam fastball? Can he locate a change-up? These are areas that I would focus on prior to worrying about the curve. The curve you described (if I follow, sounds like a basic curve other than the fact that you are using a turn of the wrist...
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Re: Anyone have experience of the overhead curveball?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by XV: Wrist turn at release? That's a no-no. Wrist angle should be pre-set before arm acceleration, actually before shoulder rotation and forearm layback. Here is a sequence of pictures of Barry Zito throwing his overhand(?) curve and you will see what I mean. Notice how his wrist is already supinated at the high c-o-c-k position and maintains the same wrist position until release."" That's a total different pitch than my son's. This is a perfect high overhead 12 to...
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Re: What are the velocities of your HS team rotation?
I've noticed that I can reliably gauge whether a fastball is 90 or above by its sound. Not the pop of the catcher's mitt, but the sound it makes in the air. It has a buzz made by the laces and the spin that just doesn't happen with an 85 mph pitch. So when I see a kid that someone tells me throws 90, if there is no gun there, I just listen.
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Re: What are the velocities of your HS team rotation?
Agreed 100 percent......i dont need to see a radar gun to know we have reached 90+ The raised seams on a HS ball literally hiss at you as they come in.
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Re: Drills to help arm mechanics
Make sure that once he catches the ball it never goes below the glove; bow image is fine or straight back whatever works for the kid. Can't windup if he does this. Have him throw some from his knees also..can help force the kid to get and keep his elbow up in throwing. Ball to the ear I'll debate some because if the elbow is in the correct position and the ball is at the ear, you'll have a bad arm angle and the tendency for alot of kids will not get on top/behind the ball when throwing.
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Re: Travel ball, college, and showcase essentials
Homerun04 is right-on with the GoogleEarth recommendation. It is why Al Gore invented the internet! Here is my current home, off to the right of the picture. I really love to view the terrain from a lower angle and spin or navigate through the mountains. This detail is really unbelievable. I would rather study a map and GoogleEarth than use a Garmin or other GPS. I understand the enormous value they offer, but I'm old-school and still enjoy the hunt. My California based son needs one for his...
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Re: Travel ball, college, and showcase essentials
Wow! I tell people I live where suburban meets rural. It looks like you live where suburban meets the edge of the world. Is there anything off to the left?
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Re: Thoughts on a Snowy Sunday Evening
I share your sentiments, but if I had to come up with a spin to put on it for the NCAA, I would say that the student athlete is in college primarlily to get an education, not play his/her sport. On the other hand, the coach is there to make a living (a good one at that). That said, I don't like it.
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Re: Why have we not heard from Clemens?
Do you think Clinton's on the Juice. I know GW is?? LOL. Anyway, They need a good PR person for all involved. You can't spin this problem and make it go away. You need to face up to it. Even if your as clean as a Bird, You allowed it to happen on your watch by being and remaining silent. For the sake of the game. EH
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Re: Why have we not heard from Clemens?
I find it extremely interesting that Mariano Rivera has spoken out in support of Pettite..but unless I missed it, he didn't say a word about Clemens. Seems odd that he'd speak favorably of Pettite, a guy that has at least admitted that he used HGH..even though I highly doubt the "I only used it once or twice" spin...while he seems to have completely ignored Roger. Maybe Mariano knows something...
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Re: Pitching anomaly
Bravescoach- It is just one of those things that happens that is hard to explain. Every pitcher has to find what works for him and I still am not really sold aboutn the velocity differences in 2 versus 4 seamers. I've heard it a million times too but call me a doubting Thomas, I guess. (Where is Gotwoodforsale with a picture) My one kid cannot throw anything straight whether it is a 2 or 4 seamer (it just moves in a different plane)& the other kid follows a little more of what you say.
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Re: Something just dawned on me
CADad, Your concept makes my head spin. No way (with trying to achieve better APR), if I am the coach am I giving 75% to a player who has questionable academics. Pitchers who get 75% and up usually have the grades and ability to justify that type of scholarship. The coach STILL has to answer to his boss about what he gives and why. I would offer less and let him walk if I have to, I am not going to depend on ONE player to get me to a championship. What I am going to do, is assemble the best...
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Re: PBR Prospect Mentoring Program
Milt, I would imagine anyone with a checkbook qualifies for an invitation. It is a new spin on an age old product, a recruiting service. While they are offering eval's and then consulting on fits, there's really nothing they can do that you can't do yourself. If you want to pay someone else to do it, that's a personal decision. Get Junior on a good travel team that gets scouted, get him to a PG showcase and Jupiter, and the recruiters will tell you where Junior fits best. In my mind, that...
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Re: Just some cool pictures of a supercell!
Unfortunately, that's not the way they actually look in nature. The images have been color and tone enhanced to make them more striking. Sort of like the evening news, enough of the truth that they hope you don't notice their enhancements to create their spin.
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Re: What were they thinking
This was really a small risk, medium reward pair of signings. They gave Manny two million which is an amount Tampa Bay can write off so fast it will make Manny's head spin if he reverts to his usual shananagins. They have to have somebody to at least show some protection for Longoria or he will never see a pitch to hit. Don't know if an elderly Manny is the guy to do this but there's not much out there and for the price it was worth a chance. I feel this is more of a reloading year for Tampa...
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Re: How many pitches is too many?
Ever since my son was about 8 years old he has thrown a 4 seam fastball and he has average size hands. His control has always been spot on. I question the real validity of a 2 seamer for movement based on some prequalifying criteria- The first is arm slot. Arm slot plays a huge part in natural movement of a ball. From over the top to even a high 3/4 in certain cases, not much movement is going to come from a 4 seam grip. But, as that arm slot drops lower and favors a low 3/4 and even to...
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Re: How many pitches is too many?
I don't really agree with this. My son has a 3/4 arm slot. His 4 seam has tail in on a RHB (he is a RHP), but his 2 seam has about the same tail as the 4 seam, but adds sink. I would say, put together, his 2 seam has more movement. I pretty much agree with this. However, my son pronates both his fastballs as well as his breaking ball. His fastballs tail in and his breaking ball breaks away from a righty. I think this may have something to do with getting more horizontal spin on the...
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Re: My Mechanics with Video!
Theundiscovered, You’re not balanced on the start of your movement before you step toward the plate. In other words you are falling toward the plate before the rest of your body gets started. On landing your stiff legged at times (mind you the videos were not that good I saw). Falling off at times and trying to keep from falling over it looked like. 87, not bad but from what I saw but you should be hitting 90 or a little more. Do this with a camera and take a rake and place it on the first...
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Re: My Mechanics with Video!
I appreciate the detailed response! Thank you! I don't know if you saw this video or not but this one is probably the best filmed one. http://www.baseballwebtv.com/Video.aspx?videoID=50616 It's is a 3rd base shot.
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Re: Do I have a shot?
Pony- I agree, although to be honest I have questioned the MLB scale in the past. I know it is widely used and makes sense, but in my mind it is a little broad. Take the case of TheUndiscovered for instance. He has said that his FB tops out at 87 mph, which as you said, is a 4 on the scale. He is tall and lean and 17 years old. The projection is that he can develop a 5 or a 6 fastball, which translates to "MLB average" to "slightly above MLB average". But in my mind, MLB average velocity...
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Re: Velocity for age 10
Turnin2, The important question here would be, do I really know my Childs biological (not chronological) age? This is easily done by taking x-rays of both arms from the shoulder to mid forearm on both sides of each arm on or near his chronological birthday. This is critical! Knowing your Childs biological age (especially if he desires to pitch at this age) gives you the information you need to control when you can encourage him to get fastball outs. Better to exaggerate the motor skill...
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Re: Question
I would not have: 1. looks like Donnie BB's shoelaces were clearly still over the plane of the dirt. 2. he was talking directly to a defensive player on the spin back, that player did not go directly to the pitcher. 3. Chain of events seems that no ruling was even considered until approached by the opposing manager, seems the crew didn't initially call it, if they didn't think it a violation at that point, I wouldn't have changed my mind, simply, coach in my judgement he did not conclude his...
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Re: Cookie anyone?
. No brush Pedropere ? Heck if I had known that I would've let you take mine for a spin! .
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Re: Balk clarification
Clear as mud! So can you see why such a basic and simple mater can be so misunderstood. We really need to tighten this ruling up. I just call it basic logic. When was the last time you saw an MLB pitcher lift his leg up and spin towards second (unocupied) to get the stealing runner? Never. I know it is not clearly defined, but it is just sort of known. Would help to get it defined more concisely. We have always been taught to steal when Righty picks up front heel.
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Re: Balk clarification
It's pretty to clear to me. F1 breaks back edge of rubber he has to do one of two things. What's the mystery? Twice so far this season. A coach's lack of rules knowledge is not cause to change the rules.
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Re: If you're good, will they find you?
Being good is relative. The key is tools. Arm strength, not judged against your peers but ML players. Running speed, not judged against yoour peers but ML players. Fielding ability, not judged against your peers but ML players. Hitting skills, not judged against your peers but ML players. Power Skills, not judged against your peers but ML players. being a good hitter/ player in HS and college doesn't always merit an opprotunity. Athletic actions and looks also carry weight. Fastball velo is...
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Re: Balk clarification
Jimmy03 and Michael Taylor, So in your example for a RHP throwing ahead of the advancing runner to third. You are saying if the runner stops it is a balk? Because he is throwing to an unoccupied base? If that sounds correct, that seems like a pretty tough judgement call to decide if the runner stopped before the pitcher threw the ball to third? So good umpires like y'all are able to watch the runners intentions and the pitcher to see if his weight is headed towards home plate in these...
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Re: Balk clarification
No one, that I can recall, has said that a pause, after the set, that is, would be allowed.
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Re: The Stride
Abrams...lol So your going to use the lead leg to produce stretch by flaring the lead knee while you hold the rear leg static. In a rear legged approach. You spin the spools Abrams and try your best to make adjustments. There must be pressure between the knees to make adjustments and to direct the energy and to have quality balance. Heck even Powers son does it....want me to show you. Turning the spool is bleed, its flare, its draining the drive train....Abrams, he'll figure it out one...
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Re: What does "top half" mean in the context of hitting?
I'm pretty sure the ones I'm referencing mean "top half" of the body not the ball, but I could be wrong. I've heard 2 guys say this recently and they were both former MLB players talking to high school players. Maybe I'll just ask next time... I also heard one recently about hitting the "inside" of the baseball and creating "backspin". If you were really good enough to see what part of the ball to hit and how to spin it, how would you ever miss? So many questions....
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Re: Dominican Baseball Camp
Definitely if you're invited by a college coach, and the college is on his list, that puts a different spin on it! We would have been going independently, so it was a little different perspective. Anyway, I hope you have fun!
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Re: Slowing down your bat speed for better control
Just had the 3rd day of hitting camp. You could really tell the difference in my sons swings when he let up a bit. He hit 7 out of 20 swings over the 385 Left center field sign in soft toss. You could really tell the difference on the swings. When he muscled up he hit it well. When he relaxed and let up a little bit he hit it out. It put on a heck of a lot more back spin. when he swung his hardest the balls were flat or with topspin. Not much distance. I think he will continue trying it...