Tagged With "Testing"
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
Thank you for the questions! Data would be sent through a database that will be accessed by coaches from around the country. Once we have gained some traction and have enough players in the system, we would be able to give player suggestions to schools based on the batted ball metrics. A sort of "match-maker" if you will. In my discussions with coaches, they have a hard time trusting the data being emailed to them. With our system, they will know that the data is credible and in a...
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
“…..that would include all data being sent to coaches from around the country.” This is the limiting step for most players. You can collect all of the data in the world and have the most perfect “test” conceivable but it doesn’t matter unless the right coach sees it, believes it and acts upon it. So before you ask for a page full of personal information from players and parents, perhaps you could share the following: A. How will you send the data to coaches around the country? B. How will...
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
The value of a single batted ball, or 5, off a tee is basically zero. I would argue the same is true of a batted ball traveling at 85 mph with a known spin rate. When you add thousands of batted balls by thousands of players it becomes a basis for comparisons, which is exactly what you proposed doing. Coaches may not yet value the data from the tech cage but note that it’s in beta now. The current perceived value by coaches may well be attributed to where any given coach sits on the adoption...
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
I am absolutely not trying to eliminate the jobs of any scouts or anything. Traditional scouting helped me a lot as a player. I am just thinking about a standardized test because the data and technology is available. Scouts and coaches will always have final say, but using the technology available in a controlled environment to evaluate a player can do nothing but help the player promote himself and help coaches trust the data they receive.
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
During our 17 years of Area Code games and 24 years of International Goodwill Series which included evaluations of 40,000 players. The selection of the competitive player was the judgement of a trusted Pro Scout and a player & parent interview. Bob
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
What you plan is the "open the front door" &/or "get to first base". The player needs 4 of 6 tools to get to home plate. Bob
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
Sorry I'm confused...... Can you explain the process of standardizing a "hitting test"??? After all, I've seen a lot of cage warriors come and go.
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
@LVeinbergs said "From my experience, the data most valuable to coaches when recruiting is the basics: EV, Distance, bat speed (maybe), some game stats, and video." I'd largely agree with all this. Your problem is all this information is already available and through any number of organizations/avenues. I am all for ideas and innovation (and dreaming big), but I don't like your chances in the slightest in getting anywhere with this. Are PG, PBR, etc all perfectly standardized? Nope. But...
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
My kids are done playing, graduated and are young adults in the real world now. I also played college ball. I did read the survey questions out of curiosity. You could get very different responses based on how connected to reality is the respondent. How are you going to know who is grounded to reality in a survey? Some of the questions would become long discussion threads on this board. From having coached softball from 7/8 rec through 18u Gold, baseball from 7/8 rec through 16u and played...
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
If you want more feedback you need to scale your survey down to the information that is relevant to your initial research. The survey as it sits feels like a data mining attempt. Making my email address a required field is an immediate hard no. As to the marketability of this “standardized test”, you don’t have a product. Your potential value propositions and target audiences are: A: Parents- The value proposition here would be the ability to match their kid to a receptive and appropriate...
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
Check out the vendors at the ABCA Convention 2022, this will provide help you gauge where the trends might be going. https://www.abca.org/ABCA/Even...53-b9c3-8735f9e604e2 There is also a company called statstak https://www.statstak.io/ that I see Josh Rudd promoting. Don't know if this is exactly what you are trying to accomplish, but you should confirm. Good luck
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
LVeinbergs, I think your heart is in the right place, and your idea of a standardized baseball skill test is great in theory. College baseball recruiting is not a one-size fits all experience. I don' think any college coach is going to believe a standardized test more than his own eyes or his recruiting coaches eyes. Recruiting is their lifeblood, career and their paycheck. That is not going to change overnight. Do I see a standardized baseball skills test augmenting or possibly replacing...
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Standardized Testing in Baseball
Hi Everyone, From what I have seen on these message boards, there is a lot of concern regarding college recruiting. Whether it is how to get recruited, where to get recruited, etc. there is a lot of confusion and grey area. One thing that I believe could help high school athletes get recruited is a standardized test of sorts. What are your thoughts on this sort of thing? I would love to hear any input you all have and have created a google form to keep responses organized.
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
Thanks for the input, it really is valuable. I just like to have discussions about baseball and thought this sort of standardized test would spark some conversation. I recognize that PBR and Perfect Game run the show and dominate the market. With that said, they still run on the old model of overcrowded "pro style" showcases with a little new technology sprinkled in. I highly doubt any coaches look at the K-vest data from the PG tech cage. The market is saturated with baseball products, but...
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
The standardized test would include a standard set of pitches (ex. 10 rounds of 5) with each round focusing on one thing (3 fastball rounds, 2 breaking ball rounds, etc.). Each pitch in each round would be identical (every FB @ 85mph 2200RPM for example). The batted balls would be recorded for exit velo, distance, etc. and those results would drive the rankings. I am talking to coaches and travel coaches as well but wanted to specifically get parent insight because they would be the ones...
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
I agree, there are many many steps to getting recruited. Video, watching live games, coach/scout recommendations, etc. are all very important to recruiting. I am just thinking a standardized test could be one more avenue that a player could take to get his name/data/video in front of coaches. I absolutely agree with you RJM, many parents see their sons as much better players than they truly are. The way I see it, an objective standardized test can be very black and white with these parents.
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LV how do you measure the 6 tools for a player? Your questionnaire does not ask about two sport players. Bob
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The test as it sits is just for hitting. Measures power via hard hit %, contact via contact %.
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Is the target audience college coaches or parents/players? Many PG tournaments now record every single pitch- speed, type or pitch and result. Stat lines/box scores for both pitchers and hitters are already out there. A hitters BA and to a degree power (via type of hit) are all recorded. It wouldn’t take much for them to point another gun at the batter. Heck, they can add a Rapsoda. Currently, on a players profile, everyone can see their metrics rank compared to class. I agree with 22and25...
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
I agree with this, but many on here would say it can't be done, because the numbers don't line up with levels, or because of the 6th tool. Anyway, doing that would be more like individual consulting, than data on a large scale. Or, if it's large scale, and you're just going to tell a player that 83 EV=D3, how would that be different from what you can find, for example, on NCSA's website?
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
The final "score" would be based on all metrics that are measured. It wouldn't be as linear as the 83-D3, 88=D2, 90+=D1, so on and so forth. Contact %, hard hit %, etc. would help paint a better picture of a hitter's abilities. I just recently read about "Smash Factor" from Driveline. That number is supposedly the best way to measure quality of contact. These slightly more advanced and detailed numbers would create a better comprehensive score. No ranking system will ever be perfect because...
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
One of the nice things about the SAT is that you don’t have to send it to a school unless you like the score. I would think that if this was a low cost way to get metrics that you could choose to make public or not…but that the player could use to get a rough idea where they stand…it could be very helpful. I agree with the rest that the actual true recruiting would still require in game observation, connections, etc. but one of the beauties about the college process for NARPs is that there...
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
PTWood, that is a great idea! Thank you! I hadn't thought about that. I took the ACT 5 times in high school and only sent my best score to the schools I was hoping to get into. That would be a great option for athletes to choose after their test. If they feel like they rocked it, then they can send the score. If they really sucked that day, they can keep the results private.
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Ideally, we would be able to identify your best fit school with the comprehensive standardized score. This would be really helpful if we were able to get some example scores from current players at those schools. Ex. Get all of Iowa's hitters through the test to get their scores. That would help the coaches find replacements for the guys they're losing and would help high school players compare themselves to D1, D2, D3 scores. These would be in no way completely limiting, players with lower...
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
Here is an example of what I am seeing more often along these lines. Club teams partnering with PBR (in this case) to do a scout day with published Trackman data from the event. For hitters they are publishing : Avg exit velo Peak exit velo Average batted ball distance https://www.prepbaseballreport...Man-Files-7394261085
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
Yes, I was saying there isn’t a tool that attempts to use a lot of the same data (not just for coaches) to help parents narrow target schools. There is a data tool called CollegeVine that attempts to give parents more info about target schools based on (academic) profile. Not saying it is easy or even accurate to do, just saying that’s an area I don’t see much help and the available data is piling up. For the vast majority of families with an excellent HS player who wishes to play college...
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
There is no such thing as a D-1 swing or D-3 swing. The results are what matters. That is the beauty of this standardized test idea. IF you hit the ball 100mph, you are objectively rewarded for that. You can have a terrible swing but if you crush the ball, you are ranked higher. As we all know, typically a good swing produces good results, but players shouldn't be ranked based on appearances, just production. I'm not knocking traditional baseball and projectability or scouts' eyes and...
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
@fenwaysouth wrote “ anything can be measured. whether or not it’s meaningful is another matter.” This is the absolute truth. The metrics that so many are focused on achieving DO NOT necessarily translate to being a player that will be sought after. What makes a player recruitable is being a really productive player in game situations, which is something a coach has to see with his own eyes.
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Yes, two kids my son played with and against had great swings but missed on all the other metrics including size. One was a D2 All American and went undrafted. One was a D3 All American and went undrafted.
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I've been thinking about this. Obviously an SAT/ACT score doesn't tell you what the best school for you is, although it can suggest a range. And, the higher the level, the more selective the school can be. So, e.g. if you have a 35 ACT you have an 87% chance of getting into UConn but a 6% chance of getting into Yale. I assume it would work the same for baseball test scores. But, much of this information is already out there, if players or coaches want it. PG/PBR collect enough numbers to...
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
Successful teams have 12-15 players who can compete at the level required by the Coaches. These players have the 6th Tool. How does the Coach determine the 6th Tool? Can it be measured? Bob
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
I completely agree that the final piece to the puzzle is what is between the ears. In my opinion, that is what separates good from great but physical attributes open doors. A kid can be an absolute bulldog, but if he doesn't throw hard enough or produce results, he isn't even looked at by higher level schools. More or less there is a physical floor that must be met to open doors to college.
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Tommy would suggest “robots “ to play the game with “robot” umpires! any psychological testing? Bob
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
Like many, I just got this PG email. To follow up on 22and25’s post, the big wallets are well on their way here: “ CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa – Perfect Game today announced that its innovative, data-capturing, PG Tech, aced its beta testing phase in 2021, and will now be rolled out and available for use by amateur baseball players participating in more than 140 of its showcase baseball events in 2022. Developed and launched in partnership with leading sports technology company, K-Motion, PG Tech...
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
@ LVeinbergs There is a lot to this thread. Simple question, is your product/service an aspirin or vitamin? Here is my simple answer, if you have something that is unique, has future value, has the proverbial high entry barrier and you can quickly prototype. Then you will have the potential of selling the product as a feature that could be used in a bigger platform. You might have multiple decision points. Understand it might be a 3 to 5 year journey.
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As far as I know PG has never missed an opportunity to fleece the general public. No surprise that they are on the leading edge of gimmicky metrics that mean nothing to 80% of the players chasing them because those players aren’t high level prospects and they never will be.
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
Reminds me of a conversation that I had with my wife circa 2005: ME: I'm thinking I want to start a new business. I'd sign up a bunch of IT people and do group marketing with a consumer friendly brand. We'd become THE trusted name for computer and IT support. HER: You mean like Geek Squad? ME: Doh!
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
I filled out the survey. Is my $50 Home Depot gift card in the mail?
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
Hi Everyone, Thank you so much for all of your input and wanted to say I've really enjoyed this discussion. I would love for it to continue but would also like to take this time to revert everyone back to the initial survey. I have changed up the questions a bit and would love to hear what y'all have to say. Once again the link is: https://forms.gle/bTNoxQYy65xduWyr7 Thanks in advance, all input is greatly appreciated!
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Re: Standardized Testing in Baseball
@ LVeinbergs Good article. https://themaneater.com/former...ity-gap-in-baseball/ Good luck with you endeavors Make sure that you attend the 2022 ABCA Convention