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I appreciate your enthusiasm for any player and a scouting report, however, for as long as I have been here, very rarely, except brought up in a discussion of a player before he turned pro, does anyone discuss grading of HS and college players. I realize that this is an article. I just don't think this type of thing is for the HSBBW.

Not sure how anyone feels about it, just my opinion.
quote:
Originally posted by TPM:
I appreciate your enthusiasm for any player and a scouting report, however, for as long as I have been here, very rarely, except brought up in a discussion of a player before he turned pro, does anyone discuss grading of HS and college players. I realize that this is an article. I just don't think this type of thing is for the HSBBW.

Not sure how anyone feels about it, just my opinion.


WOW, TR. You must have scared the h e l l out of TPM since she had obviously deleted all references about you in her post by the time I read it.

Give it a rest!

---

I tend to think that TPM's point about refraining from posting about other HS players (excepting a poster writing about their son) is that it can be problematic and is a little beyond the spirit of HSBBW. I can agree with TR that this information is nice to see, but his suggestion that it can then be discussed would probably invite some negative points among the positives. I felt that the discussions about Bryce Harper's Aflac performance crossed over the line that we try to respect here.

This too, is just my opinion. I am not sure about the consensus of the rest of HSBBW.
Last edited by infidel_08
Why are people afraid of negative's---I had coaches tell my son he would never play D-I baseball---you know what!!!--he played at a major D-I program, and was a 4 year starter

My stepson had his HS coach tell him he could not play college baseball---you know what !1--he did play play college ball--began at D-III Methodist and then moved twp D-I Hartford

Negatives can be good--they can give a kid drive to succeed

Infidel--- I have no idea as to what post you are talking about-- as for giving it a rest! ---WHY !!!-- Am I not allowed to speak my mind and debate---she can say what she wants and if I do not agree I will contest--just as we all should when we do not agree with what a poster states-----this PC BS of "let's all be nice" is what is wrong with our country--


Happy Turkey Day
I don't see any problem with what Jesse posted. I think it's very obvious that he is not trying to bash a player, he is simply sharing a professional scouting report that he put together on a potential pro prospect.

With respect to the positive/negative argument, I think that if a player isn't able to be constructively criticized then his name shouldn't be thought of as a prospect. With playing a sport comes much speculation from others and that needs to be taken into account.

I, for one, believe that the scouting report put together is very solid. I have never seen Machado play but I can get a good view of his skills from the opinions in the report.

I understand where TPM is coming from in that sometimes grading players and discussing specifics could be problematic here. Some people can be overly critical and escalate things to a point where it becomes unnecessary. But in this specific situation, I don't see any problem with what Jesse has presented.

One thing I am a little confused with, however, is the belief that discussing grades of high school players is looked down upon on HSBBWeb, when one of our main sponsors is Perfect Game, which prides itself on the accuracy of a graded, pro-scale scouting report with a constructive bit of information on each and every player.
TR,
I stated my feelings and posted that it was my opinion and no where did I mention anything about negatives or positives, I just think that scouting reports or grading players here on the HSBBW is not necessary, and THAT IS my opinion, you have yours, it's how you go about attacking what I post that is annoying.
JH, I think that you brought up a good point, I can go to PG, or BA or other places for scouting reports on players. I also did acknowledge the OP for his enthusiasm and his report.

Infidel,
I just saw TR's reply I didn't delete anything. I know that you understand what I am saying, we've both seen good scouting reports and bad ones on our players, not sure if the HSBBW is the place for it, good or bad.
TPM

I did not say you said anything about negatives or positives--I used it as an example


As for attacking you I don't see it as an attack--I just asked who made you the "almighty" in terms of telling someone what they can or cannot post---funny that you did not answer that----too bad if that annoys you but if you can discuss the PG or BA info why not the info Jesse posts?

I am with Jesse--time for that pumpkin pie
Last edited by TRhit
I tend to agree with TRhit that I enjoy reading scouting reports on high school and college players. They are still just informed opinions but if done the right way they are good ways to "see" that player without having access to his games. I like to read old scouting reports and see how close they came to being correct about a players later development. As long as you realize good or bad it's just one scout's opinion. Most reports have alot of good to say about the top prospects with only a few negatives to allow you to rank them in the first place.
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
TPM


Who made you judge and jury ??? You sure as h e l l don't speak for me !!!!

I,for one, like this sort of information--makes for great discussion and it is interesting to see others views on players


Keep it going Jesse


For the life of me and I dont know why LOL I have to agree with TR as well TPM. Its nice to see scouting reports on players. I for one had never heard of this guy until this post but I know now that I am interested in seeing how he does and whether or not the report is spot on later on down the road.
quote:
Originally posted by J H:
I understand where TPM is coming from in that sometimes grading players and discussing specifics could be problematic here. Some people can be overly critical and escalate things to a point where it becomes unnecessary. But in this specific situation, I don't see any problem with what Jesse has presented.

One thing I am a little confused with, however, is the belief that discussing grades of high school players is looked down upon on HSBBWeb, when one of our main sponsors is Perfect Game, which prides itself on the accuracy of a graded, pro-scale scouting report with a constructive bit of information on each and every player.

I don't see any problem with what jesse has posted either yet I agree with TPM's take on this one.

IMHO, the hsbbweb is a recruiting site designed to help players reach the next level. This forum is described "about" the draft rather than "players" in the draft. I don't think the hsbbweb should be used to direct traffic to another self-interested website either as was done in this case. It should not be used to build a business whether that be as a budding agent, commentator, reporter, recruiting service, web entrepeneur, and so forth.

Before anyone yells at me for expressing my opinion, TRhit I think you ought to go back and look at some of your negative remarks you directed toward Shepster. IMHO, many of his posts were similar to what jesse has done here yet you were highly critical of him. Also, I have no problem with jesse's scouting site and wish him all the best in the future. I don't think it appropriate however to use this site to build or draw attention to the other site.

Furthermore, if people want draft information they can go to PG's site or jesse's site and get it. Although PG will post about specific players here when asked, I don't see him starting threads like this.

For those that might criticize me for quelling free speech, please refer to some of the commentary directed at Sportforce in the other thread started by jesse on the top 15 players. It seems in that case, suspicions were raised about Sportforce's motives in trying to start a recruiting service in these forums. Just so people understand that I am consistent here, I have the same problem with Sportforce's self-serving posts as I now do jesse and Shepster before that.

Finally, jesse I have nothing against you and you seem like a bright young man and have lots to offer our site. It would be nice if you use your knowledge to help "others" get to the next level and generally contribute to the community here rather than using this place to build a business or website for yourself.
Last edited by ClevelandDad
quote:
Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:
I vote with TR on this, a young man is a good ballplayer showcasing, I believe that falls under public information being he does his sport in "public". As for the grades, whether they are good, bad or indifferent, any recruiter is going to find out eventually.

Jesse I enjoy reading these reports.

Thank you.


I don't think it's a matter of voting on what is right or what is wrong, just opinions on actually what this place is about. And just because it is a free site, doesn't mean everything and anything should be posted. JMO.

Since when did the HSBBW get into the discussion of scouting or promoting players? Of all the scouts or coaches that have come here, never once did they post anything about a specific player and his ability or grading him on the MLB scale, why not leave that to those who know best when it comes to that, on other sites.

Well we now know where Jesse posts his info, I do beleive you can have discussion there, or subscribe if you feel the need to. Better yet, if you are really interested, you can go to the MLB site to read reports and gradings before the draft.

You can all do what you wish, however never lose site of what the HSBBW is truely about, and that is about helping others to gain information to advance to the next level, whether it be from LL to HS, HS to college and finally to the highest level of the sport.

Never once has PG provided links to PG and never speaks of players unless asked in discussion.
CD brought up some good points I didn't think of, thanks.
Whether one agrees or not, I expressed my opinon, no one has to agree or disagree.

My opinion has nothing to do with whether a good job was done or not, I think Jesse has done a good job in what he has done, I just don't think it's appropriate for this site.
Last edited by TPM
jesse,

All 30 clubs have scouted this player. Everyone knows about him, nobody will become the enemy of scouts for writing anything about him.

It's all about credibility. Not saying you don't have credibility, but scouts and college coaches can't follow everything someone writes.

I don't see anything wrong with what you're doing. In fact, you seem to be very talented. However, I really do think you are here looking for hits. If your information was so readily available and popular enough to be a scouts worst enemy, you shouldn't have to link us all up to your stuff.

That said, it is obvious that you have talent and I would like to talk to you. Please feel free to contact me. jerry@perfectgame.org
jesse - thanks for clarifying and being respectful. Let me clarify as well.

I think the site exists to help players to the next level (in general) and act as a virtual community where people can interact who share baseball as a common interest. Beyond that, it does not exist for any one person's "ulterior objectives" imho - whether those objectives be profit-related or not.

I don't know exactly why you think you need to direct traffic to your site but we ask that you don't do it. That is basically our policy here. It is OK to contain a link on your bio page however. We ask that you do not include links in your signature line.

I think what we are encouraging you to do is help our members with their questions when you think you have something to offer that particular member which may also be of "general" interest to a much "larger" audience. This (general advice) provides much more value than promoting one particular player imho.

quote:
ClevelandDad, your last point doesn't rest well with me. As I explained above, I have (and will continue doing so) attempted to contribute to the community. If you haven't noticed that, then you haven't paid attention.


I have paid attention. Of your 18 posts, the majority of them seem to be in these two threads you started which draw attention to your site.
quote:
Given that more people have responded positively than negatively (through this post, and through emails and private messages), as well as my demonstrated intent to merely exchange information, I'm going to continue posting links to my free content that generates zero monetary compensation for me. Based on my previous post, I feel that I have sufficiently proven that I am giving more than I am receiving, which was, summarily, the suspicion that was raised against me.

jesse - I have given you the policy of the site and that is NOT to post ANY links to YOUR website. If you continue to post them, they will be removed. If you continue to go against the grain of the site and its policies, then perhaps this site is not for you. Please feel free to send me a pm and we can discuss these policies in more detail offline. This matter is not up for a vote or what you consider you have proven.
quote:
Originally posted by jesse.burkhart:
As a clarifying legal point, I also have to say that posting a link to my content is absolutely required. The second that I post my content as text on this message board, it becomes the property of the public domain, and anyone who wishes can plagiarize my content with no penalty. As long as the content stays on my page, I own the copyright.

Unbelievable. All your arguments prove my point jesse. If you are here to help "others" and you have no ulterior motives, then it should be NO PROBLEM to remove the links. Now you have convinced me that you are just like all the others who try and get something here for FREE. It's called reaping where you have not sown.

jesse - please, please take two steps back and consider things. I like you and want to see you succeed. If you are here for others as you suggest then it should be no problem to honor the links request. To keep going back and forth on this point confirms my initial suspicions - you seem more interested in promoting jesse than you do in the greater interests of this community.
Jesse,
While you probably think the site is free, it is only because the owner, Julie, underwrites the cost, sometimes to the tune of $700 or so per month.
As a result, it might be appropriate to consider how important and how relevant it is to post your site content. All you are doing is adding some to Julie's financial load.
While I don't mean to be harsh, since you don't have a scouting background, and appear, in some areas, to be calling others, why would we think the current rankings and future projection has meaningful value? If it does, your site will make it on its own. You don't need the HSBBW. On the other hand, CD is right, in my view, it is not fair to Julie, for you to be using her site, at her expense, to foster your content and views, which don't have recognized scouting background or reliability.
If you look at the Going Pro section, you will see it is dedicated to bbscout. Doug was a long time poster. He was also a very long time scout for the Giants and Nationals before passing away a few years back.
During all his time posting on the site, Doug never tried to show he could scout or rank players. He didn't need to do that. He also knew it was not part of the mission of HSBBW.
I can already read the defensiveness being created in your posts. That is not the intent.
As can happen, you can make this about you or make this about respecting Julie and her efforts and sacrifices to keep this site free and open. I for one hope you can recognize this isn't about you.
Last edited by infielddad
Jesse why are you making it sound like you uncovered this kid.

C’mon Jesse,

We have known about Machado for a long time now. Our first discussions about him were with Turtle Thomas at Florida International. Turtle then went out and signed the kid. We invited Machado to our National Showcase in “JUNE”! where pretty much every top college and 100s of MLB scouts saw him at the Metrodome. He started getting Big Time notice right there in June. USA Baseball got his name from us and invited him to the Tournament of Stars where evidently you first saw him. Here is the report we filed at that time with video links. (Scroll Down the page) Manny Machado Truth is we have lots of scouts on the payroll, several with a strong MLB scouting background. Many who have been doing this longer than you have been alive. I look forward to you uncovering some talent. So far I haven’t heard you mention a HS player who wasn’t at the Metrodome in June.

You really need to stop patting yourself on the back.
quote:
As for my scouting background and reliability, however, you really have no idea about that. You should probably leave that subject alone.


Jesse, in my view, whether it is in business, in baseball, or on this site, credibility and reliability is earned.
One thing you will find on this site is most of the posters will want you to succeed. Having a passion for baseball is the common bond we share. More and better information, from reliable and credible sources on the topics on the site makes this site fun. For me at least, I am open on the credibility and reliability aspects to your experience, knowledge and opinions. Challenging me to not go there seems curious.
This site is different from the other sites where you have been posting the same content and seeking input.
Julie and the moderators here, in my opinion, do not need to change this site to meet your expectations, especially when they have not do so in the past.
Jesse,

Whether you can see this or not, the members and moderators who have posted here are trying to help you.

Several have commented to me privately that it appears you may have potential to be a welcomed member of our community, but you have come on a bit too strong.

Please relax a little. I would recommend that you read some of the other threads that these members post in, and take some cues from them.

PGStaff, ClevelandDad, infielddad, TPM, TRhit... these are all respected members of our community, who you could learn a lot from. Each knows a lot about baseball and especially about the area of baseball that is the reason for the existence of this site. But they also each know how to help other members, and they put a lot of unselfish effort into doing so.

Relax, do a little reading here, and please do stick around.

Julie
Last edited by MN-Mom
Jesse,
I have neither questioned nor challenged your trustworthiness nor your credibility.I apologize for communicating that impression.
I said I was open.
I have no opinion as I don't have enough information to have an opinion.
As I said, for me at least, credibility and reliability on this site, and in other areas, is earned.
I, for one, look forward to your continuing to post and provide your thoughts and input. From your BA articles, you have covered the Cape and college ball. That type of background, coupled with current information, can surely be of interest and of help to many, many current and future posters.
Last edited by infielddad
Jesse,
I accept your apology, I do understand that you are new here, and that you are not familiar with the HSBBW.

I also feel that you have a lot to offer here, we love people who have a passion for baseball, I was just trying to tell you that this place is a bit different in my first comment to you.

One question, why does everyone always think it's just a bunch of guys here discussing BB?
quote:
One question, why does everyone always think it's just a bunch of guys here discussing BB?

Good point. I have always said that what makes this site UNIQUE is that we have Mom's and Dad's, men and women who contribute equally. Many of the best posts I have ever read came from the Mom's on this site. This distinguishes this site from ALL other sports-related sites on the Internet imho. It also obviously takes both the mother's and the father's input (more than just biological) to produce a great ballplayer imho.
Last edited by ClevelandDad
Thanks CD, I was thinking that perhaps a return to Tiger Paw Mom might be in order.
Of course then there is the possibilities of red bird mom, birdie mom, future redbird mom, cardinal mom (but then you know there's trades that happens) Dk's mom, Fla mom, baseball mom, BDK mom, etc. Smile
Last edited by TPM
IMO the post about this player is more about promoting jesse and his website than critiquing the player. I think jesse is looking for exposure and feels he has a captive market here at HSBBW.

I think you can add more to this site by answering questions or telling us what a scout or recruiter is looking for or might be thinking when observing a player.
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Dorminy:
I enjoyed the report , informative and well written . If you can't discuss info like that here , then where else can you ? My son played with Manny at East Coast and I thought the kid has potential for the future , wish him well .


Welcome to the HSBBW.
You are a new member but after hanging around awhile, you will notice that very rarely do we allow those to post that have personal agendas. I also beleive that Jesse had more on his mind than scouting players.
Jesse's profile provides a link to where he submits his stories and reports.
From the main page, one can access the Baseball Publications page with links to all different forms/kinds of baseball related media.
If a "blog" /scouting report link belongs anywhere, it would be there, imo. And, I believe the decision to include or not, is left to Julie, as owner.
Too often folks bypass the main site, and thus much of the purpose and content germaine to hsbaseballweb is missed.
I spent a long time reading articles, gaining knowledge, before I came into the forums. In 9 years of visiting, reading, & learning from this site, I've never seen anyone post scouting reports. I think that info should be left to those specific sites (BA, PG Crosschecker, Rivals, etc.) that specialize in that venue.

http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/b...all_publications.htm
Last edited by baseballmom

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