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Son will probably be pitching every three days, Sat, Tues, Friday. Probably 45-50 pitches max including between innings.

On the off days, should he throw at all, or should he rest the arm all together.

I hope this is not a stupid question. I truly don't know what is best. I know resting the arm shouldn't hurt him, but is it actually better in some way for him to continue with some light throwing?

Thanks in advance,

Tim
deaconspoint
Last edited {1}
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IMO, FWIW, I wouldn't allow my 10 year old to catch and pitch.

Someone made a statment on another thread, the shoulder makes no distinction between pitching and catching, I agree. Why would you have a young shoulder, do all of that work?

That's my opinion, you may get others who think that it is ok.
quote:
Originally posted by deaconspoint:
I agree TPM. I don't care for the pitching at all to be honest. It's easy to lose sight of what's most important when you see your son getting praised and enjoying the extra success.

Thanks for telling it like it is.

Tim


Tim,
If I had it to do over again, my player would not be pitching at all at 10.
I just posted something on this on another thread, when young players are successful, tehy get used more often. What we fail to realize is that they are VERY young with growing bodies, common sense should always prevail over our feelings that our kids are awesome and can help teams win.

The problem is that, success at 10 means absolutely nothing.

If it were me, I would go back and have a talk with the coach, find another pitcher or find another catcher. I see no harm with young pitchers playing other positions, or being the DH, firstbaseman, outfield (arm doesn't get as much work out there at 10 Smile).

I am getting crazy over this stuff, there is excellent information out there for recommendations on what young players should or shouldn't do (see Haverdad's post in general). We didn't have all of this info when mine was 10, resulting in many more injuries that could have been avoided (from overuse).
quote:
If I had it to do over again, my player would not be pitching at all at 10.
I just posted something on this on another thread, when young players are successful, they get used more often.


I agree 100%. Mine is 15 now. You don't know how much stress is being put on those little arms until it's too late. Kids that age don't don't know what pain is and play through far too much of it because the just don't know and as a result don't say anything. The downside of all the tournaments, "world series" events, etc for very young kids is that parents and coaches get too caught up in winning and don't realize the harm to growing bones and muscles that gets done.
I don't know if I agree with that. Maybe I'm not far along enough in the process. My son is 15 as well. Has been pitching snce he was 8 or 9. It is what he loves to do and he is good at it. I don't know if he would have that love or understanding if he had not done it at an early age.

I do think your plan is a little rigorous though. I think 2 times per week is plenty if you watch his pitch count. Don't let him throw past the point of fatigue and let him have 3-4 complete days of rest between starts.
quote:
Son will probably be pitching every three days, Sat, Tues, Friday. Probably 45-50 pitches max including between innings.

On the off days, should he throw at all, or should he rest the arm all together.

I hope this is not a stupid question. I truly don't know what is best. I know resting the arm shouldn't hurt him, but is it actually better in some way for him to continue with some light throwing?

Thanks in advance,

Tim

deaconspoint


Pitching two to three times a week with days off inbetween is fine. Kid should throw on off days (every day he should be throwing some) at this age as to condition the arm. When i say throwing I mean that he should go out and play catch and get his arm in motion and warmed up.

My son has been pitching since he was 9 2-3 times a week with similar pitch counts you have mentioned. He has almost always thrown on off days when the weather permits. The arm needs to get used to the throwing motion to develop good muscle memory and strength and that only happens by repetiotion.

Ever been to a pro-ball game? You watch the players and they will work out with bands and excersizes and then throw for quite some time (30-40 minutes) most of which are relatively pretty hard throws. They will go out and do this every single day, they do not take a break. But, they are also condiotioned to go out and throw hard every day.

One of the interesting phenomenons about muscle and bone growth is that they both know each other and they will both work in harmony. It's kind of natures way of protection. By this I mean that you take your normal 10 year old kid and he will only be able to throw as hard as his skeletal development is established. The muscles will not directly overpower what the bones can handle.

This translates into this- Kids (9-10 yr. olds)start out throwing at velocities that do not overstress the muscles and bones. They are not really damaging anything by throwing. They may have some muscle fatigue from time to time which is absolutely normal. Kids at this age just do not have the veolcities that can do damage to muscle and bones. Most 10 year olds throw about mid 50's if they are good. Throwing every other day for three to four innings at that age is just not going to ever damage a kids arm. How many 10 year olds are in need of tommy john surgery? None! They just don't throw hard enough.

As kids get older, then you need to be better at conditioning their arms- to make them stronger and less prone to injury. Better care in warming up and stretching out as they get older before they start throwing in a game is the key.

My 13 year old still throws pretty much every day including pitching in either a game or bullpen every other day.

Let me ask you this- Do marathon runners after they get done running go and sit in wheelchairs or lay in bed for the next 24 hrs? No, they may rest but they are still very active and are walking or jogging around the very next day. This is because they are condiotioned for it. Just because you pitch on one day doesn't mean that you have to put your arm in a sling until you throw again (unless it truly is injured) two days later. I personally believe kids should learn how to throw so that they can throw every day whenever they want to without any pain or injury.

Kids today just don't throw enough (notice that I didn't say pitch). The throwing motion when playing catch is harmless and is actually beneficial to arm strength and longevity. Pitching at 100% effort is a max effort event and as your kid matures and starts to reach that threshold (about the age of 12-13) then you will need to get picky about how much he pitches and what he is doing to condition himself better for pitching events. There is a difference between pitching on game days and "just throwing" on off days and that should be remebered. Every kid who is properly conditioned could go out and make a 100 throws in a day every day forever without injury, but no one can go out and throw at 100% max effort everyday without some recovery from fatigue and stress.
quote:
My son has been pitching since he was 9 2-3 times a week with similar pitch counts you have mentioned. He has almost always thrown on off days when the weather permits. The arm needs to get used to the throwing motion to develop good muscle memory and strength and that only happens by repetiotion.



mine did all this stuff as well, as tpm say's the better players get used more often. i know mine was. ( tj surgery at 20)
players should never catch and pitch, just no good reason to throw every pitch in every game.

this ride is a one timer, with one arm, take care of it. learn what's important, in the grand scheme of things. a 10 yr old has never signed a pro contract. but they dream of it. Big Grin
Last edited by 20dad
I'm about in the same boat- my son is 9 is has been the 'go to' pitcher on his team. He has pitched 2 games where he pitched the limit- 70 pitches. I kept asking him if he felt OK, and he did, but I don't know if that even really means much at this point. I'm guessing they always hurt after they pitch, not while they're pitching.

Is 60 - 70 pitches dangerous for him? He does practice long toss everyday, and about 15 minute pitching practice 4 - 5 days week. Too much?

I found a website, but haven't really read it yet:
http://safethrow.com/
i may catch some heat for this, but i'd have him skiping rocks, throwing rocks at bottles,etc. throwing should be fun and at 9 fun is what it is. even put some can's on the fence and throw ball's at em, they learn more when they don't know their learning. Wink

when we took a team to cooperstown dreams park, we had compititions for the event's. the golden arm was a throw from cf to a bullseye at home. the kids loved the compition and got a workout at the same time.
Last edited by 20dad
There is no doubt that throwing strengthens the arm. Who is arguing that point.
I do not agree with GM regarding that the lower velocity thrown (by pitching) by 9-10 year olds doesn't cause injury. Pitching motion is not a natural motion, mechanics are very important and 9 and 10 year olds do not have perfect mechanics. Impossible. Do you know how many years it takes to develop proper mechanics to avoid injury? Years. My 23 year old is still being tweaked all of the time. There's no way a 9-10 year old can have all the parts doing the right thing at the same time.

Throwing (not pitching), never hurt anyone.

I agree with 20dad, a 9-10 year old can have fun throwing off of the baseball field. Other activities should be incorporated in a young players routine. No one is looking to sign a 9,10 year old.
Last edited by TPM
quote:
I do not agree with GM regarding that the lower velocity thrown (by pitching) by 9-10 year olds doesn't cause injury.


I can't quite recall a time "ever" when a 9-10 year old kid needed surgery from pitching. The velocities generated by 9-10 year olds just starting out is nowhere close to the level required to tear ligaments or break bones in their bodies.

"Injury" is different than fatigue or muscle stress- that which is normal from working muscles. Injury means that you have overused the muscle or bone to the point where there is chronic or persistant pain because of large muscle tears or cracked or chipped bones that requires weeks to months or even years to heal. 9-10 year olds just do not put those kinds of pressures on their arms that would generate chronic injuries. Chronic injury usually happens (if it is going to happen at all) when they start to mature and go through puberty between ages 11-15 and they are not in a properly conditioned situation to be throwing the way they are throwing. This can be because of overuse, improper mechanics, improper warming up, improper diet and rest, etc.

I would just about bet that anyone who later got tj surgery or were chronically injured from pitching was not because they started pitching at 9 or 10. It was because they overpitched their arms by not being in a condition to throw as many and as hard as they threw. Some pitch counts are so high and pitches thrown extra hard that no amount of conditioning can prepare the arm against injury. But 9-10 year olds pitching 40-50 pitches every other day are just never going to be in that boat, and nowhere close. Their bodies are just not biologically able to generate the velocities that are going to do permanent damage to an arm.
quote:
But 9-10 year olds pitching 40-50 pitches every other day are just never going to be in that boat,


i don't disagree 100%, but never say never.
i would geuss if you asked an injured player how long he's been playing, 95% of them would say forever.




quote
I would just about bet that anyone who later got tj surgery or were chronically injured from pitching was not because they started pitching at 9 or 10. It was because they overpitched their arms by not being in a condition to throw as many and as hard as they threw.
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my point was not about a 10 yr old getting injured. but what can happen to a 20 yr old pitching to much since he was 9. your right it doesn't happen to all,it doesn't happen overnight. it does happen though.

i just put it out there, you can use it. or send it back. your choice. Smile





everything is alway's good ........till it isn't.
Last edited by 20dad
Thanks for all the well thought out and well meaning responses. This is a valuable asset for a dad who just wants to see his boy have fun. And for him right now pitching is fun!! Catching is too, and so is playing first base, and so is throwing rocks at the deer feeder for what seems like hours. :-)

The good news is that this is just a short lived issue. The tournament will be over soon and life will be back to normal or something close to it.

While I've got you all here, any comments on the young mans mechanics?

Aidan on the mound

The laughing is coming from the catcher's dad(coach). :-)

Tim
Although my son showed he was a very advanced catcher for his age, I never caught him and pitched him in the same weekend until he was 13. If he pitched, or was scheduled to pitch, I played him in the OF to strengthen as well as rest his arm.

Now that he is a frosh in HS, he catches and sometimes pitches. I think his future might be on the mound.
Originally posted by Yankeelvr:

Have you consulted with many 10 yo players ? While in the big scheme of things, NO baseball may really be important, I'd wager these games mean a great deal to the players and the development of their confidence.
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I'd wager that wins at 10yo mean a lot more to the fathers than to the players. They might cry for a couple of minutes after a tough loss but some dads stew over it for weeks.

I don't think a kids confidence or developement come from wins or loses, it comes from putting in the work and individual successes.

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