12U studs

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:
Genes, genes, genes.

Let's see.
1 uncle played for the Cowboys, 2 uncles played college basketball(but only Div. II), Grandpa's on both sides played college basketball(one was only JUCO though), one uncle played MILB(only got to AA, not good), Mom was a pentathlete in college,(Div. II again, not good), 2 Uncles offered full ride Div. I football rides, chose to stay home with HS sweethearts.

Now, Dad had 3 knee surgeries before age 18. Most Uncles walk around like they don't have knees. Great Grandma was 4'11" when she stretched. One aunt can't walk and chew gum. 3 Uncles trip if they don't look down when they walk. Vast majority on both sides(Cousins) never played tag let alone HS sports. One aunt 5'2"(she claims, I have my doubts). All first cousins think that sports are for idiots and refuse to play, thus screwing up my data .

Could someone tell me how my kids will do?

First, a kid has to want it to become a player. Tom Saunders (ESPN) was discussing this on a show once. He said his daughters obviously have the athletic ability and all the tools at their disposal but they don't want it. Saunders was a D1 college athlete if you didn't know.

You can start down the family tree with the most recent generation. If you see athletes and athletic ability the odds are greater the kids are going to be athletic than a kid without athleticism in the family tree/genes. Don't confuse not playing with lack of athleticism. Some parents had the ability but chose not to participate or opportunity did not exist.

There are exceptions that enter into play. A friend was 6'6" and played in the NBA. No one in his tree ever came close to being that tall. I'm the shortest male in three generations in my family tree at 6'1". I must have got a touch of grandma's 5'2" genes.

The higher up you go on the athletic food chain (high school, college, pro) the more you're going to see kids with athletic family trees (people, please don't start posting your personal individual exceptions).

It's funny you mentioned a mix of athleticism and non athleticism. A friend was a first team All-American pitcher from the SEC back in his day . His son is extremely less talented (is that better TPM?). He didn't make the middle school team. He jokes he polluted to the gene pool with his wife's non athletic genes.

Adding to the list of reasons why I'm glad I'm adopted.

quote:

Originally posted by sluggo:
That is because the parents of a true stud player don't find it necessary to continually point it out to others.

that's it.

55Mom,
I was trying to be funny. Did you notice the Icons?

Not bragging. Not much anyway. I was trying to make fun of genetics. You never know what you will get. We humans are a pretty mongrel lot(no dog icons I see) and there is a huge differnce in skills and abilities in the immediate family let alone the extended family. Almost anything can pop up.
And it has in my family!!

Not sure if you're kidding or not about being adopted, but.. a friend of mine WAS adopted. His parents later concieved 2 more boys. When he graduated he was around 6'3" 200lbs and was the starting Qb of the football team and was an all city baseball player. He owns a building company and is doing very well.
Now, the 2 younger brothers as far as I know didn't play sports, have been in and out of jail and their lives have been wrecked by drugs and alcohol. Not sure what the Sam Hill was goin' on there but the the adopted son turned out totally different than the other two.
Let's see; my mom and dad both grew up Amish. My dad is 76 6'1" 240 and the doc was amazed at his physique, said he looked like a linebacker and looked like he was good for another 50 yrs. He still works full time and is stronger than a horse. I shook hands with Lyle Alzado and my dads hands are twice the size Lyles were, the old f*rt's an animal.

IB,
I had two kids and they are totally different. one's a girl and one's a boy.

Gene's do play a factor in development, disposition, desires and ability, etc. But, IMO it is not a prerequisite for determining the next ARod.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
IB,
I had two kids and they are totally different. one's a girl and one's a boy.

Gene's do play a factor in development, disposition, desires and ability, etc. But, IMO it is not a prerequisite for determining the next ARod.

How many A Rods are there? Genes aren't the only reason a kid becomes an athlete, but it certainly increases the odds. I know pre teen rec kids who loved they game. They practiced their brains out. But they did not have the athletic ability to continue. Passion for the game isn't enough. There has to be innate ability. Where does innate ability come from?

Funny you should mention that innate ability, sort of like the sixth tool. I was discussing that with someone today.

Innate abilty is what seperates players. IMO, you can practice your brains out and if you don't got it, you don't got it. You can train to be the most athletic on the field, the fastest runner, the best hitter, have the best arm. The player who usually finds most success, is the one who understands the game (or sport) without anyone ever telling them what to do, it's all natural. I don't know where it comes from. My son has a teammate in pro ball, who he feels will be very successful. He rarely goes to the gym to work out. He doesn't WORK at his game until he is on the field. It's a natural ability, as unprepared as he is he is more prepared than many. He's not that athletic either. He is not a STUD.

You have to have athletic ability to participate in sports and keep up with any game you participate in to have success, that's a given. But good genes do not translate4 into stars, they help, but not a given. Lots of factors go into the whole picture.
The whole thing is one really doesn't know how things will turn out until the time arrives, and it arrives differently for all comes either at 12, 15, 23.
This discussion has taken place numerous times here on the HSBBW. I think everyone understands what you are at 12 doesn't determines your future. But the dicussion takes another turn when one begins to compare players using verbs that don't belong in the discussion.
Enough already.

TPM,
How about a list of those verbs? If you entered them would you have to delete your own post as moderator? Is this site more like George Carlin live or the TV specials he did?

Inquiring minds need to know.

quote:

Originally posted by Innocent Bystander:
Not sure if you're kidding or not about being adopted, but.. a friend of mine WAS adopted.

No, I am not kidding about being adopted. It's a blessing that I'm very proud of. I was just kind of getting a kick out of all the genetics mumbo jumbo. Not something I put a whole lot of thought into thankfully. I have no preconceived notions about my kids abilities based on that of there ancestry. What they want to become they will become, as is proven by the story of your friend as well as my own and my adopted brother's.

I believe our kids are capable of reaching hieghts beyond their genetics. At least I hope so for their sake. ;-) I'll set no limits or expectations based on what myself or anyone else has accomplished.

TM

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:
TPM,
How about a list of those verbs? If you entered them would you have to delete your own post as moderator? Is this site more like George Carlin live or the TV specials he did?

Inquiring minds need to know.

Not sure if I have used it, most likely not, but certainly not when comparing players, that's the difference (did you not read Caoch May's post). I am with coach May on this one, regardless of who said what. It's wrong.

Deaconspoint, nice post. I agree with you completetly.

TPM,
I knew what you were talking about. I was just trying to be funny.

It didn't work. I promise to do better in the future.

I do appreciate this site and its manners very much. I have read almost every post on subjects that I find interesting. Thousands at least. I consider it baseball grad school.

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:
55Mom,
I was trying to be funny. Did you notice the Icons?

Not bragging. Not much anyway. I was trying to make fun of genetics. You never know what you will get. We humans are a pretty mongrel lot(no dog icons I see) and there is a huge differnce in skills and abilities in the immediate family let alone the extended family. Almost anything can pop up.
And it has in my family!!

I got it - but felt Sluggo had a point. I was kinda posting and running...! My husband is adopted. All the good qualities are credited to my side of the family and when anything bad happens, his side gets the credit. This is especially true with baseball. We have had several players in my family, so we get all the credit on my side. lol

With one son 6'5" and another 6'3", I don't worry too much about height, except when I'm trying to get something off the top shelf.

imo, both my sons are STUDs - but my opinion doesn't count, does it! oh well.

Deaconspoint nice post,
Where does talent come from .... Its a gift.

quote:

Originally posted by njbb:
Deaconspoint nice post,
Where does talent come from .... Its a gift.

Do you really think it's just a gift? Who's more likley to have a top level athlete for a kid? Garciaparra and Hamm or one of your neighbors? Agassi and Graf or one of your neighbors? Go figure, Jack Elway is a stud QB in a power high school program. Not only is his dad John Elway, his mother was an Olympic swimmer. Fate? Gift? Uh uh. Genetics.

The gift-Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, and Wayne Gretzky might fit that discription. They weren't the biggest and fastest or strongest but had something extra, something that drove them and set them apart.
And then you have the Manning family, Wow! A whole family with the gift. Genetics is a very large part of the gift there.

yes I do think its a gift... woulsn't know about Nomars child haven't seen him play...

quote:

Originally posted by Innocent Bystander:
The gift-Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, and Wayne Gretzky might fit that discription. They weren't the biggest and fastest or strongest but had something extra, something that drove them and set them apart.
And then you have the Manning family, Wow! A whole family with the gift. Genetics is a very large part of the gift there.

Do you know what Jordan's, Woods' and Gretzky's family's athletic backgrounds are. A player doesn't have to have former pro athletes for parents to be talented. But I'll bet at least one parent was athletic enough to play high school level sports even if they didn't. I doubt there are many male flute players from the high school band spawning pro athletes.

I laugh when people quote Pete Rose as saying he wasn't a great athlete. They don't see he's talking relative to other pro athletes. The guy was all-world in high school sports. Relative to all people who made it to high school sports he's a phenomenal athlete. Then he did the rest on hard work and determination.

quote:

Originally posted by Innocent Bystander:
My dad is 76 6'1" 240 and the doc was amazed at his physique, said he looked like a linebacker and looked like he was good for another 50 yrs. He still works full time and is stronger than a horse.

Does he ever smack you and Bee around to keep you kids in line? When he does can I watch???

I wish genes had a bigger part in it all, husband is a lefty.

In our town, the "stud" is not biggest kid. Many get caught up in the notion that the bigger player is better.

We have a kid who is middle of the road in size for our town. Hit's the cover off the ball. Hit his first HR at 9 years old and measured 250ft. There are good players who are bigger who do not come close to hitting the ball like this kid.

Bigger is not always better

quote:

Originally posted by batdad25:
In our town, the "stud" is not biggest kid. Many get caught up in the notion that the bigger player is better.

We have a kid who is middle of the road in size for our town. Hit's the cover off the ball. Hit his first HR at 9 years old and measured 250ft. There are good players who are bigger who do not come close to hitting the ball like this kid.

Bigger is not always better

As long as his dad did not play in the HS band I would continue to expect great things from the young man. If he did maybe he'll be lucky enough to read some of the brilliance penned in this thread and will keep it a secret from the boy as long as he can. Could you imagine finding out just before your shot on the big field that dad was in the band. Oh the humanity!!

All the more reason to burn my yearbooks.

Or one of those kids "That 70's Show" was written about!

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
I wish genes had a bigger part in it all, husband is a lefty.

Here's one for you. I am a lefty. My son is a lefty. We didn't figure it out until three years after he was taught to throw righty. He even colored and wrote/scribbled with both hands until he was five.

When he was two he started hunging out at his sister's softball practice and wanted to shag balls. He never showed a preference for either hand so we went with the 90% chance he was a righty. Maybe I should have taught him to throw left anyway. I taught both kids to bat left.