in a pretty big game down in texas the other night, a big, hard thowing kid [who has signed a d-1 letter] went 156 pitches. it was a big game, the district lead was on the line, but is it just me, or is that crazy???
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That's crazy. I heard on TV last night that Scott Shields once threw 261 pitches in a college game!
One thing is obvious, at least to me, is that HS pitcher throwing 156 pitches in a game is that he is certainly not finding the strike zone--- why is still on the mound if he cannot find the strike zone?
That coach ought to be hung up by his toenails!
Here's the story...
http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories/040705/hig_040705020.shtml
The Plainsmen (16-5, 3-1) wasted a gutsy performance by senior right-hander Chase Phillips, who threw 156 pitches and struck out 13 in eight innings. Phillips - who also belted his second home run of the season - struggled with his control early on, allowing six earned runs, seven hits and five walks through the first three-plus innings.
But Phillips got stronger as the game progressed, retiring 15 of the last 17 hitters he faced without giving up a hit.
Here's the story...
http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories/040705/hig_040705020.shtml
The Plainsmen (16-5, 3-1) wasted a gutsy performance by senior right-hander Chase Phillips, who threw 156 pitches and struck out 13 in eight innings. Phillips - who also belted his second home run of the season - struggled with his control early on, allowing six earned runs, seven hits and five walks through the first three-plus innings.
But Phillips got stronger as the game progressed, retiring 15 of the last 17 hitters he faced without giving up a hit.
I know that 156 pitches is alot ..but whats the avg that a high school kid can pitch, say a junior that pitched his whole life from little league to now, my son pitched 94 yesterday in 7 innings, with the proper rest. my son is that junior i'am talking about i guess. thanks
Hirrel,
If it is the beginning of the season, I find that too much, mid season to end ok, but how many times a week does he do that?
156 pitches the coach AND parents should be ashamed. And I am with TR, he couldn't find much obviously. What did they do wait for a 75 pitch count before he found the strike zone! That is abuse!
Gets me soooo
!
If it is the beginning of the season, I find that too much, mid season to end ok, but how many times a week does he do that?
156 pitches the coach AND parents should be ashamed. And I am with TR, he couldn't find much obviously. What did they do wait for a 75 pitch count before he found the strike zone! That is abuse!
Gets me soooo
!
How about a HS Freshman that throws 146? We played one a couple of weeks ago and had that happen. He walked a few, gave up a few hits, and his team made some errors. He went 7 innings. We won in the 8th.
I wasn't keeping count, but I notice around the 5th that he seemed to be throwing a lot. His mother is a friend who told me the number after the game. I told her to make that coach knock it off, and I told the kid too.
I wasn't keeping count, but I notice around the 5th that he seemed to be throwing a lot. His mother is a friend who told me the number after the game. I told her to make that coach knock it off, and I told the kid too.
Wouldn't shock me if there were some parents blaming the loss on the coach because he pulled him. Did anyone notice the article said it was a cool and breezy night? Quite the prescription for arm damage.
TigerPaw-
It was his frist game on the hill this spring. the season started on 4-5, they had 2 games thus far. he pitchs 1 time a week(starts) and sometimes he closes in the same week. 2or3 games a week, he's their#2 starter. i say by mid season his pitch count drops about 10 to 15. is that still to high?, by the end of the season it's about 65-75 avg pitch count in 7 innings. thank-you. p.s nice to hear from you.
It was his frist game on the hill this spring. the season started on 4-5, they had 2 games thus far. he pitchs 1 time a week(starts) and sometimes he closes in the same week. 2or3 games a week, he's their#2 starter. i say by mid season his pitch count drops about 10 to 15. is that still to high?, by the end of the season it's about 65-75 avg pitch count in 7 innings. thank-you. p.s nice to hear from you.
Hirrel, 94 pitches first time out is a good 30 too many. You have to work up to it.
Did anyone see that piece on ESPN this morning about the pitchers with the broken arms.
Did anyone see that piece on ESPN this morning about the pitchers with the broken arms.
Hirrel,
I personally feel 94 pitches first time on the hill is a lot. Dave always started 40-50 pitches then worked up to the max 90ish, by the end of the season, maybe a shy bit more.
I don't know what to tell you, to each his own, one never knows when too much is too much, everyone is different and there is different theories about easier pitches one can throw have a higher pitch count.
Remember, every pitch thrown is stress on the arm. I would tend to be a little cautious if you think your son has a future in baseball.
Just my opinion.
I personally feel 94 pitches first time on the hill is a lot. Dave always started 40-50 pitches then worked up to the max 90ish, by the end of the season, maybe a shy bit more.
I don't know what to tell you, to each his own, one never knows when too much is too much, everyone is different and there is different theories about easier pitches one can throw have a higher pitch count.
Remember, every pitch thrown is stress on the arm. I would tend to be a little cautious if you think your son has a future in baseball.
Just my opinion.
TPM-
Very good thanks.
DOOER-
Was that both arms, and was it anything to do with baseball that his arms was broken.
Very good thanks.
DOOER-
Was that both arms, and was it anything to do with baseball that his arms was broken.
quote:but is it just me, or is that crazy???
No, it's not you. It is crazy. Coaches more worried about a $50 trophy than a kids arm make me sick.
Hirrel,
Take a look at MLB pitch counts this early in the season and compare their numbers to yours. After that, let me know what you think.
FYI, the MLB guys have been on throwing programs since January (they don't just start at spring training).
Take a look at MLB pitch counts this early in the season and compare their numbers to yours. After that, let me know what you think.
FYI, the MLB guys have been on throwing programs since January (they don't just start at spring training).
I saw a College all american this year throw 148 pitches through 8 innings his team was winning by 8 runs, and the college coach had him finish the game, or 161 pitches. Coach had a fun time explaining why he left him in the whole game and what does that say to the rest of your pitchers on your staff
who did the coach have to explain to?!?
The pitch count thing!!! I know some associations have rules how many innings kids can pitch a calendar week. this was done to prevent coaches from overusing pitchers. since everybody is concerned about this pitch count thing I guess they should invoke a rule to limit the number of pitches??? Seems like there are rules for everything else?
quote:Coach had a fun time explaining why he left him in the whole game and what does that say to the rest of your pitchers on your staff
I watched pitch counts and pitcher abuse points of college coaches that called my kid. I am not alone.
Here are the ASMI recommended limits.
Pitch Count and Other ASMI Recommendations
Pitch Counts
Age Max. /Pitches Per Game/ Max. Games Per Week
8-10 52 2
11-12 68 2
13-14 76 2
15-16 91 2
17-18 106 2
Recovery Times
Age 1 Day Rest 2 Day Rest 3 Day Rest 4 Day Rest
8-10 21 34 43 51
11-12 27 35 55 58
13-14 30 36 56 70
15-16 25 38 62 77
17-18 27 45 62 89
Age Recommendation For Learning Various Pitches
The survey also presented recommendations for the age at which a player could learn different types of pitches. These are listed below.
Survey - Age Recommendation for Learning Various Pitches
Pitch Age
Fastball 8 - 10
Change-Up 10 - 13
Curve ball 14 - 16
Knuckle ball 15 - 18
Slider 16 - 18
Fork ball 16 - 18
Screw ball 17 - 19
Pitch Count Plus Other Factors
Other factors to take into account as you determine, "How many pitches should I allow my player to pitch?".
Some Additional ASMI Survey Conclusions:
A pitcher should be limited to two appearances per week.
Participation in multiple leagues, playing other positions, and practice should be considered when defining and regulating rest.
Improper technique is a major factor in injury potential.
Conditioning of the throwing arm and entire body can reduce a young pitcher's risk of injury.
While the number of pitches should be limited, the young athlete should be encouraged to throw. This includes playing catch, playing other positions besides pitcher, and practicing pitching. When symptoms of arm discomfort or fatigue arise, longer periods of rest are recommended.
You can find the complete ASMI research at: http://www.asmi.org/SportsMed/youth/PITCHCNT.PDF
Pitch Count and Other ASMI Recommendations
Pitch Counts
Age Max. /Pitches Per Game/ Max. Games Per Week
8-10 52 2
11-12 68 2
13-14 76 2
15-16 91 2
17-18 106 2
Recovery Times
Age 1 Day Rest 2 Day Rest 3 Day Rest 4 Day Rest
8-10 21 34 43 51
11-12 27 35 55 58
13-14 30 36 56 70
15-16 25 38 62 77
17-18 27 45 62 89
Age Recommendation For Learning Various Pitches
The survey also presented recommendations for the age at which a player could learn different types of pitches. These are listed below.
Survey - Age Recommendation for Learning Various Pitches
Pitch Age
Fastball 8 - 10
Change-Up 10 - 13
Curve ball 14 - 16
Knuckle ball 15 - 18
Slider 16 - 18
Fork ball 16 - 18
Screw ball 17 - 19
Pitch Count Plus Other Factors
Other factors to take into account as you determine, "How many pitches should I allow my player to pitch?".
Some Additional ASMI Survey Conclusions:
A pitcher should be limited to two appearances per week.
Participation in multiple leagues, playing other positions, and practice should be considered when defining and regulating rest.
Improper technique is a major factor in injury potential.
Conditioning of the throwing arm and entire body can reduce a young pitcher's risk of injury.
While the number of pitches should be limited, the young athlete should be encouraged to throw. This includes playing catch, playing other positions besides pitcher, and practicing pitching. When symptoms of arm discomfort or fatigue arise, longer periods of rest are recommended.
You can find the complete ASMI research at: http://www.asmi.org/SportsMed/youth/PITCHCNT.PDF
Our coach probably won't even let the starter get over 80 pitches it seems.
Today we had a kid go 6 innings and only give up 1 hit and no runs on 69 pitches and the coach lifted him for a reliever in the 7th. Needless to say the pitcher was extremely unhappy.
So far the most pitches any one of our starters has thrown is 74.
Today we had a kid go 6 innings and only give up 1 hit and no runs on 69 pitches and the coach lifted him for a reliever in the 7th. Needless to say the pitcher was extremely unhappy.
So far the most pitches any one of our starters has thrown is 74.