If your kid has the opportunity to play in both, which do you choose - or do you go 1/2 to east cobb and get to salem on Friday?
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Last year my son did 1/2 East Cobb and then left to play in the Comonwealth Games. I can tell you leaving East Cobb about 6 PM and driving to Salem on Thursday made for a long day. This year, I believe his travel team is playing in the 18u tourney at East Cobb so players will be available for the Commonwealth Games the following week. Good luck
Totally comes down to who your target schools are and where they will be.
If you want to go to school in the state of VA and you get invited to the Commonwealth games then it makes sense to go where the local guys are going to be. Especially if you're looking at a mid-level division one program or one of the many division three options here in VA. VCU, Radford, JMU, VMI, Richmond, W&M are always very well represented at the games.
If you are unsure about where you want to go and are open to options throughout the broader mid-atlantic area (or entire east coast is more likely) then the WWBA might be a better fit.
It's a tough call as a general question. But it gets much easier when you look at your specific situation.
If you want to go to school in the state of VA and you get invited to the Commonwealth games then it makes sense to go where the local guys are going to be. Especially if you're looking at a mid-level division one program or one of the many division three options here in VA. VCU, Radford, JMU, VMI, Richmond, W&M are always very well represented at the games.
If you are unsure about where you want to go and are open to options throughout the broader mid-atlantic area (or entire east coast is more likely) then the WWBA might be a better fit.
It's a tough call as a general question. But it gets much easier when you look at your specific situation.
So is it fair to say that JMU Richmond W&M coaches are NOT at E Cobb at the end of the 17u tournament?
quote:Originally posted by justakid:
So is it fair to say that JMU Richmond W&M coaches are NOT at E Cobb at the end of the 17u tournament?
I know W&M's head coach was at the 2009 17U WBB and am fairly certain I saw him near the end. I think you will find a number of Virginia (and some North Carolina) schools will send one coach to the 17U WWB and one to the Commonwealth Games.
Whar are the dates for the Commonwealth Games?
The advice that it depends on what schools you are targeting is spot on. Even more to the point is, what level are you aiming for?
From my observation over the past several years (the period when these events have both been prominent but also in conflict), those who are hoping to play college ball somewhere in state, esp. without baseball money being involved (D-3 etc.), are often well served by events like Best in Virginia showcase or the Comm. Games.
Guys who are looking D-1 are better served at East Cobb for a number of reasons.
The first is that while the program you want may or may not have representation at the Comm. Games, or throughout that event, they most definitely will be at East Cobb from start to finish. Why? Simply because it's a greater and more economical scouting opportunity from their perspective. And, they can network there with opposing coaches whom they know, and believe it or not they often share notes on kids they see. (It's not unusual at all for Coach A to ask his friend, Coach B, e.g., have you seen any middle infielders who impressed you?)
The second is that you will be better tested (face tougher competition) at East Cobb, and that helps you get evaluated better.
The third is that East Cobb potentially exposes you to numerous other schools that may enter the picture for your son. Some of these might actually succeed in turning your head, making you think about options you didn't even know you had. If nothing else, though, having someone else pursue you helps you to gain negotiating leverage with your top choices. That could be the difference between being a recruited walk-on vs. getting 25%, or between 25% and 40%, etc.
From my observation over the past several years (the period when these events have both been prominent but also in conflict), those who are hoping to play college ball somewhere in state, esp. without baseball money being involved (D-3 etc.), are often well served by events like Best in Virginia showcase or the Comm. Games.
Guys who are looking D-1 are better served at East Cobb for a number of reasons.
The first is that while the program you want may or may not have representation at the Comm. Games, or throughout that event, they most definitely will be at East Cobb from start to finish. Why? Simply because it's a greater and more economical scouting opportunity from their perspective. And, they can network there with opposing coaches whom they know, and believe it or not they often share notes on kids they see. (It's not unusual at all for Coach A to ask his friend, Coach B, e.g., have you seen any middle infielders who impressed you?)
The second is that you will be better tested (face tougher competition) at East Cobb, and that helps you get evaluated better.
The third is that East Cobb potentially exposes you to numerous other schools that may enter the picture for your son. Some of these might actually succeed in turning your head, making you think about options you didn't even know you had. If nothing else, though, having someone else pursue you helps you to gain negotiating leverage with your top choices. That could be the difference between being a recruited walk-on vs. getting 25%, or between 25% and 40%, etc.
quote:Originally posted by novabball:
What are the dates for the Commonwealth Games?
Thanks
at the high school age why do they split the players into 17U and 18U divisions?
Since they all compete in high school against freshman,sophomores,juniors, and seniors why not have them all together in thses tournaments?
Wouldnt a college scout evaluating potential players for his program want to see the 17's compete against the 18 year old players?
Why not have a tournament with teams desiginated as 'high school' age teams.
Or if they do not do that why wouldnt a 17u team seeking out the most competitive situation for its players register itself as a 18U team and play the best competition available in front of the scouts....after all they all compete against each other during the high school season and all the other opportunities available
Since they all compete in high school against freshman,sophomores,juniors, and seniors why not have them all together in thses tournaments?
Wouldnt a college scout evaluating potential players for his program want to see the 17's compete against the 18 year old players?
Why not have a tournament with teams desiginated as 'high school' age teams.
Or if they do not do that why wouldnt a 17u team seeking out the most competitive situation for its players register itself as a 18U team and play the best competition available in front of the scouts....after all they all compete against each other during the high school season and all the other opportunities available
And WHY would the commonwealth games be scheduled to conflict with the 17u WWBA tournament?
the major tournaments and showcases aren't even really done by ages anyway - they're just listed as such. The vast majority are actually by graduating class. For instance - the "17U" WWBA is actually for 17U OR 2011 grads. You can actually be an 18 year old junior and be eligible.
As for the reasons for dividing up instead of just playing against "all high school ages" - it's for the audience. These tournaments are recruiting opportunities. Generally speaking, coaches recruit by class depending on the time of year. They all have (for the most part) finished the 2010's and now want to see Jr's. It doesn't benefit them all that much to go to a game and see a bunch of 2010's who have already committed. The concept that they would be facing older players and better competition is a good point - but the reality is that recruiters have no interest in watching a bunch of players they can't move on anyway.
As for the reasons for dividing up instead of just playing against "all high school ages" - it's for the audience. These tournaments are recruiting opportunities. Generally speaking, coaches recruit by class depending on the time of year. They all have (for the most part) finished the 2010's and now want to see Jr's. It doesn't benefit them all that much to go to a game and see a bunch of 2010's who have already committed. The concept that they would be facing older players and better competition is a good point - but the reality is that recruiters have no interest in watching a bunch of players they can't move on anyway.
I have heard a little about this tournament but thought it was in Atlanta
that is interesting- so there are no age limits for the 17U group as long as you are not a senior?
Is the tournament by invitation or can anyone assemble a team and enter it?
Do they allow players who have committed to colleges to participate?
Do you think if a junior played on an 18u team those games would be of less interest since it sounds like alot of the players have already commited.
I guess since it is wooden bat the emphasis is primarily on pitchers?
that is interesting- so there are no age limits for the 17U group as long as you are not a senior?
Is the tournament by invitation or can anyone assemble a team and enter it?
Do they allow players who have committed to colleges to participate?
Do you think if a junior played on an 18u team those games would be of less interest since it sounds like alot of the players have already commited.
I guess since it is wooden bat the emphasis is primarily on pitchers?
I think it's fair to say the WWBA events are probably a better opportunity for pitchers than for non-pitchers. But then, that's college recruiting for you. Half (or more) of most recruiting classes are pitchers as it is.
On the other hand, "if I can rake it there, I can rake it anywhere", so to speak. Especially if you show power while hitting with wood.
I think there is some upper age limit to avoid ringers, but I do know that an 18u player who is in the 2011 class can participate in this year's WWBA 17u event, as one example.
Teams often do "play up", e.g., you do see 16u teams in the 17u event, and you see 17u teams stay for the 18u event (with or without adding year older players).
The reason the tourneys are grouped by age/grad year is that it allows the coaches who are scouting to see "apples to apples" comparisons in the main, and it allows for a greater concentration of prospects all in one place, which is what the event is really all about. A lot of programs get a lot of their work done in a couple of weeks. It's an intense couple of weeks for them, but it's very economical in terms of both time and travel expense for them. You can see someone on your check list play 5-6 times. You can see a pitcher twice, against quality competition. If someone catches your eye, you can follow up a couple of times to see if he had one hot game or if he's a keeper.
Conversely, as that event has become more and more favored by coaches, the older, traditional events like the Commonwealth Games have not been able to keep up the pace. Especially when you have, over the past 15 years, had more and more programs get more and more of their NCAA scholarship allotment funded.
The problem you see is that many HS coaches are simply not aware of what goes on at East Cobb. Their impressions were often formed by experiences 15-20 years ago. An awful lot has changed, just in the last 10 years really. But a lot of HS players get a bum steer from their own HS coaches on this.
On the other hand, "if I can rake it there, I can rake it anywhere", so to speak. Especially if you show power while hitting with wood.
I think there is some upper age limit to avoid ringers, but I do know that an 18u player who is in the 2011 class can participate in this year's WWBA 17u event, as one example.
Teams often do "play up", e.g., you do see 16u teams in the 17u event, and you see 17u teams stay for the 18u event (with or without adding year older players).
The reason the tourneys are grouped by age/grad year is that it allows the coaches who are scouting to see "apples to apples" comparisons in the main, and it allows for a greater concentration of prospects all in one place, which is what the event is really all about. A lot of programs get a lot of their work done in a couple of weeks. It's an intense couple of weeks for them, but it's very economical in terms of both time and travel expense for them. You can see someone on your check list play 5-6 times. You can see a pitcher twice, against quality competition. If someone catches your eye, you can follow up a couple of times to see if he had one hot game or if he's a keeper.
Conversely, as that event has become more and more favored by coaches, the older, traditional events like the Commonwealth Games have not been able to keep up the pace. Especially when you have, over the past 15 years, had more and more programs get more and more of their NCAA scholarship allotment funded.
The problem you see is that many HS coaches are simply not aware of what goes on at East Cobb. Their impressions were often formed by experiences 15-20 years ago. An awful lot has changed, just in the last 10 years really. But a lot of HS players get a bum steer from their own HS coaches on this.
My son did both last year. Last year a lot of the bigger schools did not come to the Commonwealth Games. (ie, South Carolina, UNC, Clemson) The talent level was not what it was the previous year. Most all the Richmond Braves that were not committed came back to play. Some of the Canes were there. They are trying to move them but there was a scheduling conflict. If you are talking to the schools and they are interested they will send someone to see you play at either place. This is more important than anything. My son threw twice at the WWBA 17U and the schools he was talking to came to see him. Then they (most interested) came to the Commonwealth games. He committed at the end of the Commonwealth Games. Most schools have two people on the road so it's not a big deal to be at both.
sounds like a difficult choice for people to make- I have heard there are 150 or more teams at the georgia tournament
I just looked at the 18U WWBA and it looks like over 170 teams, some 16U, 17U & 18U. My son a 2011 grad will be playing on an 18U team, and looking forward to some serious competition. There are 2010, 2011 & a 2012 on his team, I would imagine colleges get rosters & know who is committed and grad years so they know who to look for. We have already contacted coaches to see who will be at this event and all said they are at the 18U event.This is our first time so it should be interesting!
That seems to make sense if one is truly going there to play against the best competition they should be in the 18u tournamnet -
That would seem to benefit the players the most.
Since most just finsihed a season of playing against Seniors why not approach it that way.
Even sounds like for a VA team the week of the 18u tournamnet may present fewer conflicts
Hope your son does well!
Wish there had been stuff like this going on when my son was eligible!! Kids today have lots of opportunities they can take advantage of
That would seem to benefit the players the most.
Since most just finsihed a season of playing against Seniors why not approach it that way.
Even sounds like for a VA team the week of the 18u tournamnet may present fewer conflicts
Hope your son does well!
Wish there had been stuff like this going on when my son was eligible!! Kids today have lots of opportunities they can take advantage of
I think the 17u tourney had something like 190 teams last year. It's the biggest week. You may not see all of them listed on PG's site just yet because they are in the course of revamping all their web pages right now and they haven't finished uploading everything just yet.
The 18u is not quite as heavily scouted, so if you put your eggs in that basket it may not pan out. There are many teams who stay for both weeks, but for a lot of teams that's just not feasible.
The 18u is not quite as heavily scouted, so if you put your eggs in that basket it may not pan out. There are many teams who stay for both weeks, but for a lot of teams that's just not feasible.
I guess it depends on a teams mission in going down there- if the focus is more on the team winning they may tend to shy away from the older age group which would create a tougher path to a trophy for the team-
if the focus is on having the players perform against the best competition they may be more inclined to not be concerned with the age thing.
if the focus is on having the players perform against the best competition they may be more inclined to not be concerned with the age thing.
Not always so. Some of the 18u teams have guys who have been drafted but who are trying to show well in hopes of negotiating for higher offers with the team that drafted them. Some are international players looking for a chance to get picked up. But some are recent HS grads who have yet to find a college offer to their liking, and in many cases those players are not as tough as their 17u counterparts.
All in all, 17u teams tend to do just fine, though some add an 18u player here and there.
The main thing is, if you can only do one of the weeks, the 17u event is somewhat more heavily scouted by colleges. But there will always be teams who do both events, or who for whatever reason opt for the 18u (maybe if they have a scheduling conflict with the 17u, or if they were late asking for a spot and didn't get in).
All in all, 17u teams tend to do just fine, though some add an 18u player here and there.
The main thing is, if you can only do one of the weeks, the 17u event is somewhat more heavily scouted by colleges. But there will always be teams who do both events, or who for whatever reason opt for the 18u (maybe if they have a scheduling conflict with the 17u, or if they were late asking for a spot and didn't get in).