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2005 draft

TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
I have noticed that this thread has remained dormant for awhile.

Well, that time of the year has arrived. You have signed your NLI, may have taken a few months off, now you are preparing for your HS season. During your practice or scrimmage games you are surprised to see that some scouts are out there watching, and when your season gets into full swing, you might see that more and more scouts may be out there. Some of you might have already had visits. As a HS player, this can be the most exciting time you have ever imagined, but also the most frustrating and confusing.

A few suggestions, from a parent whose son was not drafted and decided to go to school. Regardless of the reasons for that, having been through the process, here are a few tips to pass on.
Be honest with everyone, including yourself. If you really want to be drafted and begin your professional career after HS, be prepared to do so immediately following the draft. Remember, a scouts job is to sign you, especially if you are drafted early, he can lose his job if you have not communicated well with him. If you are really not sure as to what you want to do, tell him. How you conduct yourself in the process may or may not affect how they feel about you years later if drafted again.

Be honest with the coach that has signed you. If they ask you questions, let them know what your expectations are in advance, would you choose to be a draft and follow? Nothing aggravates a college coach more than hearing one thing and then hearing another thing from the scouts. Baseball community is a very small world and most everyone knows everyone. Don't be afraid to discuss your feelings with him also.

Do your homework. Research the teams that have shown an interest in you, study last years draft, know what the term, round money, is. Ask where you will play rookie ball and where you will play, live, as you move through the system. Same thing for college, ask them in advance how they plan to develop you as a future draft prospect, what exactly is expected of you as far as playing time. If you will not be an impact player your first year, you may not be ready to play for a living, you may think you are, you may not. Learn about the ML scholarship program.

Know that when you sign , you are now employed and have joined the work force. Yes it will be tough at times and you will have great challenges ahead of you, are you willing to do that now? It may be your passion, but it is a JOB. Know that if you decide to go to college, it also will be tough. Not a good student, could you lose your eligibility if you get poor grades? School comes first, if you are not willing or able to accept that, think twice, it is not EASY.

Both situations will bring it's rewards, you just have to decide which ones you want. Think about after your choice is made, would you rather be second guessing in rookie camp or in college?

Don't tell anyone you want to be drafted just to be drafted, it is not embarrasing if it doesn't happen, because you either felt you wanted too much (but be realistic) or you wanted to go to school. Don't be afraid to admit to anyone you are not ready to make any decision.

Know that you may have passed up a great opportunity to play professional ball, know that you might become a better pick later on. Your position may have a greater impact upon your choice. Keep tabs on the other 2005 draft players, it will give you an idea of where you might fit in.

Listen to GOOD advice. Advisors, scouts, players, coaches, etc. Talk to those who went to college then went pro, speak to those who were drafted directly out of HS (if you can). Sort out what you feel is valuable in making the right decision for yourself. You will hear a variety of pros and cons on the subject, but you are the one who will be either in rookie camp or in school, not mom or dad, not your advisor, not your best friend, not your coach.
Rely on your parents to guide you through the process. Don't let anyone tell you that they do not know what is best for you, they know you better than anyone else.

Most of all, enjoy your last year in HS. As badly as you might want out, enjoy all of those activities that you have earned as a senior. You will never have them again. Whether you go to work or go to school, shortly you will be on your own, appreciate what you have at home, laundry will have to be done by YOU, either way.
I am not going to get into the pros and cons of college vs. pro. I'll leave that for others later on. For my son, his decision worked best for him, he is happy, he wouldn't trade what he has for anything. I am sure if you heard from parents whose son went in the other direction they would say the same. Start preparing now to make the decision that will be best for YOU and your future.
Good luck!
Last edited {1}
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Bighit15Bighit155,000+ posts
A couple of cautions.

If you have pro baseball aspirations do not put an unreasonable dollar amount on your self or you will be undrafted.

Do not go pro unless you are mature enough to treat the off-season as a job, as well as the in-season. It is a difficult road to take, albeit a very rewarding one. If you want the ultimate competition and you believe in yourself, you will be very happy with your decision.

You better have mental make-up as well as a work ethic. 6 days a week training in the off-season, proper nutrition, etc. It is no picnic.

Play your cards close to the vest. Remember that when your college coach asks for information, he is interested in protecting his interests.

Don't hide the fact that you have pro aspirations. Let the college coaches know that you will listen to offers if drafted.

Don't hide the fact that the draft may effect your decision as to DNF, but let them know your plan is to attend their university.

Do not let the college coach pin you down to an amount that it will take for you to sign before the draft. He can use that quietly to undermine the process. Do not sign a paper along with the letter of intent stating a dollar amount that you will not sign under. It is yours and your families business. Ask your college coach to not discuss personal conversations that you have with him with scouts.

Don't lie to the scouts. Let them know that you will sign for "fair" slot money. You and your family determine the round at which you draw the line. Scouts will ask you 20 different ways to tie you down to an amount. Don't do it. Fair slot money. That gives you room in the round as negotiations pan out. I hheard a scout say that the player drafted in the same slot lost year got 25,000 when the player was asking 175,000. The previous player was a graduated college fielder and new player was a hs grad. That was this scouts view of slot money. Remember that slot money is there to protect them from going up not DOWN.

The term slot money is purely collusion by baseball. If they did not have an anti-trust exemption by congress, it would be illegal. Almost every round had a player who signed for big bucks way beyond slot money. If they value you, they will pay you. Then they will smokescreen and spin it to say that their were signability issues and that they took a chance and got lucky. Just the way it is.
PINCHMETWICEPINCHMETWICE10+ posts
TPM and BIG,
Thank you both for such great advice,you both just went thru all of this last year and both of your sons came out WINNERS with their choices.
TPM please say hello to David from Shaun, he must be so ready and anxious to start playing soon.


BIG ERIC, please ay hello to Eric also, I hope he is enjoying his time off and ready to GO GET THEM... CONGRATS on his great accomplishments..

Wish us luck, It's been busy and as RHP05 said...Very Interesting....
FutureBack.MomFutureBack.Mom1,000+ posts
Big ...

quote:
Let them know that you will sign for "fair" slot money. You and your family determine the round at which you draw the line. Scouts will ask you 20 different ways to tie you down to an amount. Don't do it. Fair slot money.


Couldn't agree more.

Even tho ours didn't have to deal with this out of high school, we found that it was essential that the homework be done on "fair slot money". Just takes some internet research to find out what has happened in the past and to come to the tables prepared to back up the desired money.
RHP05ParentRHP05Parent1,000+ posts
Today's Baseball America article:
quote:
The logjam of unsigned players from the 2005 draft might be starting to clear.

The Mets, who have grabbed headlines with high-profile free-agent signings such as Pedro Martinez and now Carlos Beltran, ended the impasse with their first-round pick, Rice righthander Philip Humber. They brought him to New York for a physical Tuesday and signed him for a $3 million bonus. Humber’s contract is a five-year major league deal with a $5.116 maximum value, with $4.2 million guaranteed.
C crollss100+ posts
Big:
quote:
Let them know that you will sign for "fair" slot money. You and your family determine the round at which you draw the line. Scouts will ask you 20 different ways to tie you down to an amount. Don't do it. Fair slot money.


Great advice just when we need it. However my question is this: at what point are you told where you stand in the draft. In other words when would someone say to my son "We see you going in the X round."

Thanks
Last edited by crollss
Bighit15Bighit155,000+ posts
They won't and they cannot tell you with any certainty. Local area scouts have no say so in who is drafted. They give reports and recomendations. Scouting directors make the draft decisions.

Some scouts will say for example: "based on my experience, I see your son falling between the 3rd and 7th round. However, I am not the one that makes the decision. The scouting director is."

You must remember that each organization has like 40 scouts. US, South America, the Islands, Europe, asia, etc. and they all have thier list of players. To get drafted at all is an honor.

The top couple of rounds will get a good idea as to where they will go after that the draft is a crapshoot. Many things can effect a draft. I never even asked where they though he would go. Waste of time. The scouts don't know.

Also a teams needs figure in heavily. If a team doesn't need pitchers, it might not matter how good you are. You may be number 5 on one teams board and 205 on another teams board. There is no rhyme or reason.

We had 4 different scouts tell us that they were pushing to have my son taken in the 4th or 5th round.None of those teams took him and he was taken in the 8th. Just the way it goes. When my son was picked, we were on the phone with another team and I talked to another scout later that said he was on their list for later that round and that he would have been their next pick.
Last edited by Bighit15
FrankFFrankF1,000+ posts
quote:
quote by Bighit15
I never even asked where they though he would go. Waste of time. The scouts don't know.


Unless you want to turn the tables on them. When my son is asked what it would take for him to sign he simply says he wants to be treated fairly. He asks them where they see him going and if they are honest they say they don't know, he will say then how can he be expected to know what to ask for. So far, so good and that way he's not shutting the door on any teams.
B bbscout1,000+ posts
I have never asked a player what it would take for him to sign.......ever. I have asked players if they would consider signing in a certain area (4th-8th round ex.) I have asked them if they know what type of money those rounds are worth.

Bighit gave the best advice, and right now, my own son is going through signability dicussions with various teams. He has told them that he wants the rest of his college taken care of and that he will sign for slot money in the first ten rounds. After the 10th round, he would have to consider the team who drafted him and a few other things before signing. What he is telling them is the absolute truth.

Since all the bonus info is on Baseball America, it is not hard to figure out the round and value that it would take to sign or not sign. As a scout, I have to ask questions and the players who answer with a well thought out answer can help themselves. If a player answers with "just treat me fairly", it does not mean anything. Fairly for the 15th round or fairly for the 2nd round? Big difference in money. A college player has had many years to think it over, and should be able to come up with a solid answer. The ones that don't can slide down the list, as they could be thought of as difficult signs.
B bbscout1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by crollss:
Big:
quote:
Let them know that you will sign for "fair" slot money. You and your family determine the round at which you draw the line. Scouts will ask you 20 different ways to tie you down to an amount. Don't do it. Fair slot money.


Great advice just when we need it. However my question is this: at what point are you told where you stand in the draft. In other words when would someone say to my son "We see you going in the X round."

Thanks



Outside of 3-4 players in the country, you will find out where you are going on draft day.
Bighit15Bighit155,000+ posts
bbscout,

Great advice.

quote:
He has told them that he wants the rest of his college taken care of and that he will sign for slot money in the first ten rounds. After the 10th round, he would have to consider the team who drafted him and a few other things before signing. What he is telling them is the absolute truth.


We always told them that after a certain round that it would depend on the team, their record of player develoment, and their needs in the organization.
FrankFFrankF1,000+ posts
quote by bbscout,
quote:

Fairly for the 15th round or fairly for the 2nd round? Big difference in money.


Good point. I should have said he does say he wants to be treated fairly for the round he is chosen in. He says basically the same thing Brett does.

quote:

A college player has had many years to think it over, and should be able to come up with a solid answer.


Not necessarily true in all cases. What about the player who had a breakout year/summer who is being looked at more seriously now than ever before? Yes, he's had thoughts about it since HS, but it seems it's a whole new ballgame now. About the only thing he's been told is that the college deal wouldn't be a stumbling block.

quote:
Outside of 3-4 players in the country, you will find out where you are going on draft day.


Best statement yet! We all know of many players who've had their hearts broken by listening to some (not all) scouts who tell the player they have him going in the X round and end up going much lower or not even being drafted at all. The best advice I've heard so far is from Bob himself when he says to go fishing, etc.. with your buddies on draft day and if it happens, great.

P.S. We need a PREVIEW MESSAGE BEFORE POSTING option so maybe not have to edit so much. Or I could just learn to spell. Roll Eyes
Last edited by FrankF
Bighit15Bighit155,000+ posts
FrankF, not to pick on you, but, that is bad advice.

quote:
The best advice I've heard so far is from Bob himself when he says to go fishing, etc.. with your buddies on draft day and if it happens, great.


When my son was picked, we were called 20 minutes before the pick to verify that would would sign for fair money. Also there was another team on the phone asking if we would sign for X dollars in a few minutes at the same time as my son was picked.(They picked in the same round a few picks later) Had we not agreed to their money demands, they would have gone right to the next kid. Instead they said, "oops, Pittsburgh just took him, good luck and we will call the next kid." They were trying to get the price down. It is a business. Period.

Had we been fishing, he may never have been picked.
Last edited by Bighit15
RHP05ParentRHP05Parent1,000+ posts
So far the scouts that we have met with have been OK if not easy to deal with. At this stage I feel they are just trying to determine who on their list has a true interest in being drafted in the range the team is considering them. They have all been very clear to say IF drafted in this range of rounds would he want to sign out of HS. My assumption is that much will change between now and draft day and the round they are considering him will go up or down depending on how his spring season goes; what each team's needs are at draft time; who is still on the board; and whether their team is interested in HS prospects. No one yet has ever asked us for a specific $ go/no-go cut-off.
FrankFFrankF1,000+ posts
Bighit15,

No problem. I never said he wouldn't have his cell phone with him. Cool I'm sure his "advisor" will be in contact. I think what Bob was getting at was not to get so psyched up for something that you have no control over. I just know of some who listened on the internet both days with their buddies all around waiting and waiting for a call that never came. First team DII All-American who BA said was a fringe 5 tool guy (not the strongest arm) who was told he would be going on the first day of the draft and never got a call. The listening will be my job. biglaugh And for more reasons than just my son! Hopefully we will have the same "problem" you did.
Last edited by FrankF
Bighit15Bighit155,000+ posts
By the 5th round my son was getting down right depressed. LOL Listening is tough.

RHP05, you have a pretty good take on it. Pretty accurate for this time of year. The bottom line will be performance during the hs season. I have seen guys flourish and i have seen guys choke on the pressure. The bottom line is let you do the worrying and let him live his senior year and have fun. Play for his team and team mates and follw Tiger Paw Mom's advice. I wanted my son's focus on playing and competing and having fun while living his senior year to the hilt.
Bighit15Bighit155,000+ posts
If a team desires your services they will draft you where they think you will go. it would be a huge risk for a team to want a 6th rounder and hold off to the 10th waiting to get him. Other teams might take him and then they would lose out.

Telling them that you will sign with a good team for slot money through the first 10 rounds, demonstrates the deisre to play pro ball. Hey everybody wants to be a front runner. Not everybody can.

I am sure that bbscout will add his insight to this. I am sure that I missed something.
B bbscout1,000+ posts
Poles, To answer your question,no.....he may even get drafted a little higher, because the clubs know that the player is an easy sign in any of the first 10 rounds.After the 10th round, clubs might then back off him.

The second part is this......every player I have ever drafted except for one was overdrafted. The reason I say this is because if you want a player in the 5th round, you better draft him in the 4th round or there is a very good chance someone else will take him before he gets to you.
Last edited by bbscout
Z Zengrifter10+ posts
<" Scouts will ask you 20 different ways to tie you down to an amount. Don't do it. Fair slot money.">

First you need to define "Fair Slot Money" because it's rather vague. Your idea of being treated fair may not be mine. FYI, the clubs definition of fair, in most cases, is to use the Avg dollar figure for the round from last years draft. I suggest you get the money sheet from last years draft from the BBA website. It will have the High/Avg/Low money paid for every round. Be aware though that there are certin times when a player slips in the draft for any one of several different reasons and is paid better than the round he is taken. This will skew the avg figure. However, you if you look at all the rounds, there is a trend in the avg figure, and you can still get a pretty good idea of what the clubs idea of "slot money" is.


zg
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
Zengrifter,

Good point, sometimes the average for round 10 can be higher than the average for round 9. For the reasons you mention.

If you want a better idea of the average, take off all the highest 10 bonus's and the lowest 10 and figure the average of the remaining 10. Actually you can usually just take off the abnormally highs and lows and average out the rest.

Adding a 1.4 million to the rest of the 13th round could mislead people.
Bighit15Bighit155,000+ posts
I stated earlier that the reason you use fair slot money is give yourself room to play with the figures in the round.

A. Graduated college players get paid the least because they have the fewest options. You have to be compared fairly with comperable players in the round. One scout wanted to use a pick from last years draft. That player was a grad from college. The player in question was a hs grad. The college grad was the smallest signing of the round.

B. I want it to be vague. That allows me to negotiate.

C. Don't let mlb off of the hook. if they have slot money designated and a team goes over by 200%, don't let the club off of the hook. use it to negotiate. They all make a big deal about slot money, but then they play stupid when someone goes over. Can't have it both ways either their is slot money or their isn't.
quote:
Be aware though that there are certin times when a player slips in the draft for any one of several different reasons and is paid better than the round he is taken.


As I stated in an earlier post:
"The term slot money is purely collusion by baseball. If they did not have an anti-trust exemption by congress, it would be illegal. Almost every round had a player who signed for big bucks way beyond slot money. If they value you, they will pay you. Then they will smokescreen and spin it to say that their were signability issues and that they took a chance and got lucky. Just the way it is."

You will also find that most of the big signees of a round will come later than sooner. If you want to see a messed up round, look at the eigth and tell me what fair slot money is.

At the time of my son's signing, #'s 4, 24, 25 were not signed.

2004 Draft: Round 8


Players signed indicated in Bold
Previous Next
Pick Overall Team Player Position School State Bonus
1 222 SD Vern Sterry rhp North Carolina State U. NC $15,000
2 223 DET Luke French lhp Heritage HS, Littleton, Colo. CO $92,000
3 224 NYM Neil Jamison rhp Long Beach State U. CA
4 225 TB Rhyne Hughes 1b Pearl River (Miss.) CC MS $275,000
5 226 MIL Brandon Parillo lhp Marina HS, Huntington Beach, Calif. CA $100,000
6 227 CLE Justin Pekarek lhp U. of Nebraska NE $20,000
7 228 CIN Greg Goetz lhp Bellevue (Wash.) CC WA $85,500
8 229 BAL David Haehnel lhp U. of Illinois-Chicago IL $85,000
9 230 COL Jim Miller rhp U. of Louisiana-Monroe LA $12,000
10 231 TEX Mark Roberts rhp U. of Oklahoma OK $20,000
11 232 PIT Eric Ridener rhp Taravella HS, Coral Springs, Fla. FL $100,000
12 233 ANA Freddy Sandoval ss U. of San Diego CA $84,000
13 234 MON Leonard Davis 3b Fresno (Calif.) CC CA $75,000
14 235 KC Ed Lucas ss Dartmouth College NH $1,000
15 236 ARI Jimmy Shull rhp Cal Poly CA
16 237 TOR Chip Cannon 1b The Citadel SC $25,000
17 238 LA Carlos Medero-Stullz c Barbara Goleman HS, Hialeah, Fla. FL $85,000
18 239 CWS Nick Lemon rhp Brigham Young U. UT $54,000
19 240 STL Matt Shepherd ss U. of Southern Mississippi MS $65,000
20 241 MIN Jay Sawatski lhp U. of Arkansas AR $5,000
21 242 PHI Sam Orr ss Biola (Calif.) U. CA $90,000
22 243 SEA Marshall Hubbard 1b U. of North Carolina NC $85,000
23 244 HOU Evan Englebrook rhp Shippensburg (Pa.) U. PA $35,000
24 245 BOS Kyle Bono rhp U. of Central Florida FL $432,000
25 246 CHC Eric Patterson 2b Georgia Tech GA $300,000
26 247 OAK Myron Leslie 3b U. of South Florida FL $15,000
27 248 FLA Craig Molldrem rhp U. of Minnesota MN $25,000
28 249 NYY Mike Martinez rhp Cal State Fullerton CA
29 250 SF Omar Aguilar rhp Merced (Calif.) JC CA
30 251 ATL Derrick Arnold ss Tallahassee (Fla.) CC FL $70,000
Last edited by Bighit15
B bbscout1,000+ posts
The 8th round was defintely A dandy, But the rounds leading up to it were very easy for a player or parent to read and figure out what slot money is/was. I see many players each year on the lists that I know quite well, and some are getting better than slot money when they get drafted........what happens in many cases is that the player could have recieved more if had given a positive response to the scout in the first place. Why? because many of them would have been drafted higher and the slot money they get in a higher round is better than above average money in a lower round. Teams don't like to come up empty on a 3rd-5th round pick, and will many times opt for the signable player in that spot over a kid who they think may be hard to sign.
Z Zengrifter10+ posts
< B. I want it to be vague. That allows me to negotiate.>

I highly discourage this type of approach. YOUR vagueness has nothing to do with negotiating. It has EVERYTHING to do with your son even getting drafted at all. This is the reason some kids dont get drafted or their drafted very low where the clubs wont get hurt by their ahhh...urrrr..ummm...vagueness.

Just be honest

zg
Bighit15Bighit155,000+ posts
Zengrifter,



I appreciate the scouts point of view. But let us get the facts straight. At no point did I advocate lying or vagueness. Read the whole thread and you will see that I advocated determining a round at which you will not go below, accquaint yourself with the money, and say that you want fair slot money.

I want to be treated fairly and limiting myself to a dollar amount is not going to help me accomplish that. I also advocated honesty. Leaving a little wiggle room within the round is not dishonest.

What I was referring to was leaving a little negotiating room in the process. We all know that slot money is a guidline not a,strict measure. There is always room to negotiate within the round. Otherwise the guy first in the round would get the most and the one last the least. It doesn't happen that way.

If I tell you slot money and you tell me that the guy in my slot last year was 20,000 in the 9th round and this year with added compensation rounds the same pick is an 8th rounder, that is hardly fair round money, nor is it slot money. you can twist the numbers any way you want.

Just for the record, I am not an um..errr guy. You took what I said out of context. Read it all again. I was referring to letting them pin you down to a specific amount. With all due respect, why should I give you a specific amount when A. I have not gotten a committment from you to draft. And B. you don't know even when or if you will draft me. That would be stupid.

quote:
I highly discourage this type of approach. YOUR vagueness has nothing to do with negotiating. It has EVERYTHING to do with your son even getting drafted at all. This is the reason some kids dont get drafted or their drafted very low where the clubs wont get hurt by their ahhh...urrrr..ummm...vagueness.

Just be honest


Being completely vague would be stupid. I said nothing like that. The above is a good example of what one can expect to hear when a scout comes to the house to try to get you pinned down to a specific figure. A scout that gives you that kind of information is a perfect reason why you need an advisor. BEing honest is good. That doesn't mean to tell you everything. Some things are none of your business. There is always some negotiation. To say there is not is wrong.

So Zengrifter, are you saying that if someone says that they will sign in the first ten rounds for "fair slot money" or "fair round money", but they won't give an exact figure for each round, then you won't draft them?

Every scout that I have talked to calls that very signable. You don't? Because that is what I advocated.

I know that posting on message boards can be hard. Sometimes you take something out of contxt, or focus on one little thing. Read all of what I wrote.
Dad04Dad045,000+ posts
For the Fun of It:
quote:
Big, the largest bonuses appear to be from big market teams, but more interesting, to college juniors. Is that just this round, or is it that way throughout the draft?


Boston signed Kyle Bono from UCF for $432,000 after he went for a 0.00 ERA I think, at the Cape. Boston didn't have a first round pick because they signed a Type A free agent for that season, Schilling, forfeiting the pick. When that happens, the Commissioner give teams the ability to go above slot money later in the draft for a "special case" or two. Thats my understanding.

The Cubs were in the same boat and signed Corey Pattersons brother for $300,000 in the 8th round. Thehy couldn't very well risk insulting Corey by paying his brother slot $$, now could they? Smile

Happy to here others thoughts on it.
Last edited by Dad04
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