By the 5th round my son was getting down right depressed. LOL Listening is tough.
RHP05, you have a pretty good take on it. Pretty accurate for this time of year. The bottom line will be performance during the hs season. I have seen guys flourish and i have seen guys choke on the pressure. The bottom line is let you do the worrying and let him live his senior year and have fun. Play for his team and team mates and follw Tiger Paw Mom's advice. I wanted my son's focus on playing and competing and having fun while living his senior year to the hilt.
Frank
Sounds like you might need a phone in each pocket.
Sounds like you might need a phone in each pocket.
Great post, thanks for info. Keep it coming.
bbscout,
A naive question -- If the player tells the scout that he will accept fair slot money for the first ten rounds, doesn't he set up the possibility of dropping nearer the tenth round and therefore leaving some money on the table?
A naive question -- If the player tells the scout that he will accept fair slot money for the first ten rounds, doesn't he set up the possibility of dropping nearer the tenth round and therefore leaving some money on the table?
If a team desires your services they will draft you where they think you will go. it would be a huge risk for a team to want a 6th rounder and hold off to the 10th waiting to get him. Other teams might take him and then they would lose out.
Telling them that you will sign with a good team for slot money through the first 10 rounds, demonstrates the deisre to play pro ball. Hey everybody wants to be a front runner. Not everybody can.
I am sure that bbscout will add his insight to this. I am sure that I missed something.
Telling them that you will sign with a good team for slot money through the first 10 rounds, demonstrates the deisre to play pro ball. Hey everybody wants to be a front runner. Not everybody can.
I am sure that bbscout will add his insight to this. I am sure that I missed something.
Poles, To answer your question,no.....he may even get drafted a little higher, because the clubs know that the player is an easy sign in any of the first 10 rounds.After the 10th round, clubs might then back off him.
The second part is this......every player I have ever drafted except for one was overdrafted. The reason I say this is because if you want a player in the 5th round, you better draft him in the 4th round or there is a very good chance someone else will take him before he gets to you.
The second part is this......every player I have ever drafted except for one was overdrafted. The reason I say this is because if you want a player in the 5th round, you better draft him in the 4th round or there is a very good chance someone else will take him before he gets to you.
Doug,
Will you be given the oppurtunity to evaluate and draft your son? Would you like too?
Catchersdad
Will you be given the oppurtunity to evaluate and draft your son? Would you like too?
Catchersdad
I could just see that report 
<" Scouts will ask you 20 different ways to tie you down to an amount. Don't do it. Fair slot money.">
First you need to define "Fair Slot Money" because it's rather vague. Your idea of being treated fair may not be mine. FYI, the clubs definition of fair, in most cases, is to use the Avg dollar figure for the round from last years draft. I suggest you get the money sheet from last years draft from the BBA website. It will have the High/Avg/Low money paid for every round. Be aware though that there are certin times when a player slips in the draft for any one of several different reasons and is paid better than the round he is taken. This will skew the avg figure. However, you if you look at all the rounds, there is a trend in the avg figure, and you can still get a pretty good idea of what the clubs idea of "slot money" is.
zg
First you need to define "Fair Slot Money" because it's rather vague. Your idea of being treated fair may not be mine. FYI, the clubs definition of fair, in most cases, is to use the Avg dollar figure for the round from last years draft. I suggest you get the money sheet from last years draft from the BBA website. It will have the High/Avg/Low money paid for every round. Be aware though that there are certin times when a player slips in the draft for any one of several different reasons and is paid better than the round he is taken. This will skew the avg figure. However, you if you look at all the rounds, there is a trend in the avg figure, and you can still get a pretty good idea of what the clubs idea of "slot money" is.
zg
Zengrifter,
Good point, sometimes the average for round 10 can be higher than the average for round 9. For the reasons you mention.
If you want a better idea of the average, take off all the highest 10 bonus's and the lowest 10 and figure the average of the remaining 10. Actually you can usually just take off the abnormally highs and lows and average out the rest.
Adding a 1.4 million to the rest of the 13th round could mislead people.
Good point, sometimes the average for round 10 can be higher than the average for round 9. For the reasons you mention.
If you want a better idea of the average, take off all the highest 10 bonus's and the lowest 10 and figure the average of the remaining 10. Actually you can usually just take off the abnormally highs and lows and average out the rest.
Adding a 1.4 million to the rest of the 13th round could mislead people.
I stated earlier that the reason you use fair slot money is give yourself room to play with the figures in the round.
A. Graduated college players get paid the least because they have the fewest options. You have to be compared fairly with comperable players in the round. One scout wanted to use a pick from last years draft. That player was a grad from college. The player in question was a hs grad. The college grad was the smallest signing of the round.
B. I want it to be vague. That allows me to negotiate.
C. Don't let mlb off of the hook. if they have slot money designated and a team goes over by 200%, don't let the club off of the hook. use it to negotiate. They all make a big deal about slot money, but then they play stupid when someone goes over. Can't have it both ways either their is slot money or their isn't.
As I stated in an earlier post:
"The term slot money is purely collusion by baseball. If they did not have an anti-trust exemption by congress, it would be illegal. Almost every round had a player who signed for big bucks way beyond slot money. If they value you, they will pay you. Then they will smokescreen and spin it to say that their were signability issues and that they took a chance and got lucky. Just the way it is."
You will also find that most of the big signees of a round will come later than sooner. If you want to see a messed up round, look at the eigth and tell me what fair slot money is.
At the time of my son's signing, #'s 4, 24, 25 were not signed.
2004 Draft: Round 8
Players signed indicated in Bold
Previous Next
Pick Overall Team Player Position School State Bonus
1 222 SD Vern Sterry rhp North Carolina State U. NC $15,000
2 223 DET Luke French lhp Heritage HS, Littleton, Colo. CO $92,000
3 224 NYM Neil Jamison rhp Long Beach State U. CA
4 225 TB Rhyne Hughes 1b Pearl River (Miss.) CC MS $275,000
5 226 MIL Brandon Parillo lhp Marina HS, Huntington Beach, Calif. CA $100,000
6 227 CLE Justin Pekarek lhp U. of Nebraska NE $20,000
7 228 CIN Greg Goetz lhp Bellevue (Wash.) CC WA $85,500
8 229 BAL David Haehnel lhp U. of Illinois-Chicago IL $85,000
9 230 COL Jim Miller rhp U. of Louisiana-Monroe LA $12,000
10 231 TEX Mark Roberts rhp U. of Oklahoma OK $20,000
11 232 PIT Eric Ridener rhp Taravella HS, Coral Springs, Fla. FL $100,000
12 233 ANA Freddy Sandoval ss U. of San Diego CA $84,000
13 234 MON Leonard Davis 3b Fresno (Calif.) CC CA $75,000
14 235 KC Ed Lucas ss Dartmouth College NH $1,000
15 236 ARI Jimmy Shull rhp Cal Poly CA
16 237 TOR Chip Cannon 1b The Citadel SC $25,000
17 238 LA Carlos Medero-Stullz c Barbara Goleman HS, Hialeah, Fla. FL $85,000
18 239 CWS Nick Lemon rhp Brigham Young U. UT $54,000
19 240 STL Matt Shepherd ss U. of Southern Mississippi MS $65,000
20 241 MIN Jay Sawatski lhp U. of Arkansas AR $5,000
21 242 PHI Sam Orr ss Biola (Calif.) U. CA $90,000
22 243 SEA Marshall Hubbard 1b U. of North Carolina NC $85,000
23 244 HOU Evan Englebrook rhp Shippensburg (Pa.) U. PA $35,000
24 245 BOS Kyle Bono rhp U. of Central Florida FL $432,000
25 246 CHC Eric Patterson 2b Georgia Tech GA $300,000
26 247 OAK Myron Leslie 3b U. of South Florida FL $15,000
27 248 FLA Craig Molldrem rhp U. of Minnesota MN $25,000
28 249 NYY Mike Martinez rhp Cal State Fullerton CA
29 250 SF Omar Aguilar rhp Merced (Calif.) JC CA
30 251 ATL Derrick Arnold ss Tallahassee (Fla.) CC FL $70,000
A. Graduated college players get paid the least because they have the fewest options. You have to be compared fairly with comperable players in the round. One scout wanted to use a pick from last years draft. That player was a grad from college. The player in question was a hs grad. The college grad was the smallest signing of the round.
B. I want it to be vague. That allows me to negotiate.
C. Don't let mlb off of the hook. if they have slot money designated and a team goes over by 200%, don't let the club off of the hook. use it to negotiate. They all make a big deal about slot money, but then they play stupid when someone goes over. Can't have it both ways either their is slot money or their isn't.
quote:
Be aware though that there are certin times when a player slips in the draft for any one of several different reasons and is paid better than the round he is taken.
As I stated in an earlier post:
"The term slot money is purely collusion by baseball. If they did not have an anti-trust exemption by congress, it would be illegal. Almost every round had a player who signed for big bucks way beyond slot money. If they value you, they will pay you. Then they will smokescreen and spin it to say that their were signability issues and that they took a chance and got lucky. Just the way it is."
You will also find that most of the big signees of a round will come later than sooner. If you want to see a messed up round, look at the eigth and tell me what fair slot money is.
At the time of my son's signing, #'s 4, 24, 25 were not signed.
2004 Draft: Round 8
Players signed indicated in Bold
Previous Next
Pick Overall Team Player Position School State Bonus
1 222 SD Vern Sterry rhp North Carolina State U. NC $15,000
2 223 DET Luke French lhp Heritage HS, Littleton, Colo. CO $92,000
3 224 NYM Neil Jamison rhp Long Beach State U. CA
4 225 TB Rhyne Hughes 1b Pearl River (Miss.) CC MS $275,000
5 226 MIL Brandon Parillo lhp Marina HS, Huntington Beach, Calif. CA $100,000
6 227 CLE Justin Pekarek lhp U. of Nebraska NE $20,000
7 228 CIN Greg Goetz lhp Bellevue (Wash.) CC WA $85,500
8 229 BAL David Haehnel lhp U. of Illinois-Chicago IL $85,000
9 230 COL Jim Miller rhp U. of Louisiana-Monroe LA $12,000
10 231 TEX Mark Roberts rhp U. of Oklahoma OK $20,000
11 232 PIT Eric Ridener rhp Taravella HS, Coral Springs, Fla. FL $100,000
12 233 ANA Freddy Sandoval ss U. of San Diego CA $84,000
13 234 MON Leonard Davis 3b Fresno (Calif.) CC CA $75,000
14 235 KC Ed Lucas ss Dartmouth College NH $1,000
15 236 ARI Jimmy Shull rhp Cal Poly CA
16 237 TOR Chip Cannon 1b The Citadel SC $25,000
17 238 LA Carlos Medero-Stullz c Barbara Goleman HS, Hialeah, Fla. FL $85,000
18 239 CWS Nick Lemon rhp Brigham Young U. UT $54,000
19 240 STL Matt Shepherd ss U. of Southern Mississippi MS $65,000
20 241 MIN Jay Sawatski lhp U. of Arkansas AR $5,000
21 242 PHI Sam Orr ss Biola (Calif.) U. CA $90,000
22 243 SEA Marshall Hubbard 1b U. of North Carolina NC $85,000
23 244 HOU Evan Englebrook rhp Shippensburg (Pa.) U. PA $35,000
24 245 BOS Kyle Bono rhp U. of Central Florida FL $432,000
25 246 CHC Eric Patterson 2b Georgia Tech GA $300,000
26 247 OAK Myron Leslie 3b U. of South Florida FL $15,000
27 248 FLA Craig Molldrem rhp U. of Minnesota MN $25,000
28 249 NYY Mike Martinez rhp Cal State Fullerton CA
29 250 SF Omar Aguilar rhp Merced (Calif.) JC CA
30 251 ATL Derrick Arnold ss Tallahassee (Fla.) CC FL $70,000
Now you tell me if you are drafted in the 8th round next year what the slot money is. If I am a pitcher I say somewhere between 100,00 and 432,000 what do you say? lol
Big, the largest bonuses appear to be from big market teams, but more interesting, to college juniors. Is that just this round, or is it that way throughout the draft?
The 8th round was defintely A dandy, But the rounds leading up to it were very easy for a player or parent to read and figure out what slot money is/was. I see many players each year on the lists that I know quite well, and some are getting better than slot money when they get drafted........what happens in many cases is that the player could have recieved more if had given a positive response to the scout in the first place. Why? because many of them would have been drafted higher and the slot money they get in a higher round is better than above average money in a lower round. Teams don't like to come up empty on a 3rd-5th round pick, and will many times opt for the signable player in that spot over a kid who they think may be hard to sign.
bbscout,
I imagine your report would have something to say about Brett coming from great lineage.
I imagine your report would have something to say about Brett coming from great lineage
.
< B. I want it to be vague. That allows me to negotiate.>
I highly discourage this type of approach. YOUR vagueness has nothing to do with negotiating. It has EVERYTHING to do with your son even getting drafted at all. This is the reason some kids dont get drafted or their drafted very low where the clubs wont get hurt by their ahhh...urrrr..ummm...vagueness.
Just be honest
zg
I highly discourage this type of approach. YOUR vagueness has nothing to do with negotiating. It has EVERYTHING to do with your son even getting drafted at all. This is the reason some kids dont get drafted or their drafted very low where the clubs wont get hurt by their ahhh...urrrr..ummm...vagueness.
Just be honest
zg
Zengrifter,
I appreciate the scouts point of view. But let us get the facts straight. At no point did I advocate lying or vagueness. Read the whole thread and you will see that I advocated determining a round at which you will not go below, accquaint yourself with the money, and say that you want fair slot money.
I want to be treated fairly and limiting myself to a dollar amount is not going to help me accomplish that. I also advocated honesty. Leaving a little wiggle room within the round is not dishonest.
What I was referring to was leaving a little negotiating room in the process. We all know that slot money is a guidline not a,strict measure. There is always room to negotiate within the round. Otherwise the guy first in the round would get the most and the one last the least. It doesn't happen that way.
If I tell you slot money and you tell me that the guy in my slot last year was 20,000 in the 9th round and this year with added compensation rounds the same pick is an 8th rounder, that is hardly fair round money, nor is it slot money. you can twist the numbers any way you want.
Just for the record, I am not an um..errr guy. You took what I said out of context. Read it all again. I was referring to letting them pin you down to a specific amount. With all due respect, why should I give you a specific amount when A. I have not gotten a committment from you to draft. And B. you don't know even when or if you will draft me. That would be stupid.
Being completely vague would be stupid. I said nothing like that. The above is a good example of what one can expect to hear when a scout comes to the house to try to get you pinned down to a specific figure. A scout that gives you that kind of information is a perfect reason why you need an advisor. BEing honest is good. That doesn't mean to tell you everything. Some things are none of your business. There is always some negotiation. To say there is not is wrong.
So Zengrifter, are you saying that if someone says that they will sign in the first ten rounds for "fair slot money" or "fair round money", but they won't give an exact figure for each round, then you won't draft them?
Every scout that I have talked to calls that very signable. You don't? Because that is what I advocated.
I know that posting on message boards can be hard. Sometimes you take something out of contxt, or focus on one little thing. Read all of what I wrote.
I appreciate the scouts point of view. But let us get the facts straight. At no point did I advocate lying or vagueness. Read the whole thread and you will see that I advocated determining a round at which you will not go below, accquaint yourself with the money, and say that you want fair slot money.
I want to be treated fairly and limiting myself to a dollar amount is not going to help me accomplish that. I also advocated honesty. Leaving a little wiggle room within the round is not dishonest.
What I was referring to was leaving a little negotiating room in the process. We all know that slot money is a guidline not a,strict measure. There is always room to negotiate within the round. Otherwise the guy first in the round would get the most and the one last the least. It doesn't happen that way.
If I tell you slot money and you tell me that the guy in my slot last year was 20,000 in the 9th round and this year with added compensation rounds the same pick is an 8th rounder, that is hardly fair round money, nor is it slot money. you can twist the numbers any way you want.
Just for the record, I am not an um..errr guy. You took what I said out of context. Read it all again. I was referring to letting them pin you down to a specific amount. With all due respect, why should I give you a specific amount when A. I have not gotten a committment from you to draft. And B. you don't know even when or if you will draft me. That would be stupid.
quote:
I highly discourage this type of approach. YOUR vagueness has nothing to do with negotiating. It has EVERYTHING to do with your son even getting drafted at all. This is the reason some kids dont get drafted or their drafted very low where the clubs wont get hurt by their ahhh...urrrr..ummm...vagueness.
Just be honest
Being completely vague would be stupid. I said nothing like that. The above is a good example of what one can expect to hear when a scout comes to the house to try to get you pinned down to a specific figure. A scout that gives you that kind of information is a perfect reason why you need an advisor. BEing honest is good. That doesn't mean to tell you everything. Some things are none of your business. There is always some negotiation. To say there is not is wrong.
So Zengrifter, are you saying that if someone says that they will sign in the first ten rounds for "fair slot money" or "fair round money", but they won't give an exact figure for each round, then you won't draft them?
Every scout that I have talked to calls that very signable. You don't? Because that is what I advocated.
I know that posting on message boards can be hard. Sometimes you take something out of contxt, or focus on one little thing. Read all of what I wrote.
For the Fun of It:
Boston signed Kyle Bono from UCF for $432,000 after he went for a 0.00 ERA I think, at the Cape. Boston didn't have a first round pick because they signed a Type A free agent for that season, Schilling, forfeiting the pick. When that happens, the Commissioner give teams the ability to go above slot money later in the draft for a "special case" or two. Thats my understanding.
The Cubs were in the same boat and signed Corey Pattersons brother for $300,000 in the 8th round. Thehy couldn't very well risk insulting Corey by paying his brother slot $$, now could they?
Happy to here others thoughts on it.
quote:
Big, the largest bonuses appear to be from big market teams, but more interesting, to college juniors. Is that just this round, or is it that way throughout the draft?
Boston signed Kyle Bono from UCF for $432,000 after he went for a 0.00 ERA I think, at the Cape. Boston didn't have a first round pick because they signed a Type A free agent for that season, Schilling, forfeiting the pick. When that happens, the Commissioner give teams the ability to go above slot money later in the draft for a "special case" or two. Thats my understanding.
The Cubs were in the same boat and signed Corey Pattersons brother for $300,000 in the 8th round. Thehy couldn't very well risk insulting Corey by paying his brother slot $$, now could they?
Happy to here others thoughts on it.
Guys
The main thing for any player is to have a good spring season, and not to worry just yet.
A lot of things can happen between now and June.
Just tell the boys to relax and have fun, it's showtime. Dads enjoy it is gonna be OK.
Good luck to all
The main thing for any player is to have a good spring season, and not to worry just yet.
A lot of things can happen between now and June.
Just tell the boys to relax and have fun, it's showtime. Dads enjoy it is gonna be OK.
Good luck to all
Just to add one more variable to consider ... Keep in mind the team's draft order! The phrase "fair slot-money for a round" can have a very different $$$ meaning from a team picking at the top of the round than from a team who is doing their picking at the bottom of each round.
