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The WBC and WWF are pleased to sponsor this year's thread regarding the 2012 all SED predictions. In the far corner from Chesapeake, Virginia via Hickory High School wearing blue trucks, we have Matt Campbell and Tyler Best sponsored by Diamond Stalker and Matthews41. In the near corner from Suffolk, Virginia via Nansemond River High School wearing red trunks, we have Brandon Lowe and Tyler Brown sponsored by Go Dawgs.

There will be no low blows, head butts or cuffing.
Combatants will go to a neutral corner during any standing eight counts or when told by the referee.
Begin boxing or should I say campaigning?

Almost forgot, who gets POY?
Original Post

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Classic!!!

But just to defend myself... I only said that I thought the double play tandem of Campbell and Best was the best in the SED.

I did not go out and say who was the better players at the SS and 2b positions. I will quote Redbird: "I don't think you can go wrong with either SS. They are both studs."

I also believe that the same applies to/ with each 2d basemen.
Last edited by mathews41
Stephen Lorkiewicz is far from the best in the SED!!! You can't even put him up with Campbell, Lowe, Best and Brown. On the other hand and this is food for thought, what if the voting goes Lowe at SS and Campbell at 2B. I know that leaves Best and Brown out, but you could put Brown at the utility spot. It would just suck for Best cause I don't know where that would leave him. I mean both Lowe and Campbell are great well round people. I know McPherson is only sophmore, but we have 3 ACC SS in the SED. That is insane!
Go Dawgs, I agree with you. The sad that is, that one of these kids will get hung out to dry. There is just way to much talent in the District this year. I sure would like to be in that meeting. I know there as been a lot of talent come through the SED, but I'd have to say this years group may be the most consistent as far as numbers go.

Vann C, Cody 3B, Brooks OF, Moore OF, Blake 1B, Lowe SS, Campbell 2B, Brown U.... I don't know it's complicated! Does anyone think Bennett could get it for pitching 6-1 record, not sure about the ERA!
nrbb07, and that is the problem you encounter when picking by position. It makes no sense. I am aware that the regional and state teams are also picked by position, but that does not make it right. People once thought that the world was flat. A very deserving player who is among the top ten or twelve players (and, in this case, among the top five or six players) will be relegated to the second teams simply because he is not the best at a particular position. Of course, we can always shuffle him to another position as was done two years ago!
Last edited by El gato
I'll never get bent outta shape. I was just trying to give both 1st Team props because they both deserve them. I could see some of the coaches doing it that way. It honestly may not make much sense, but they are both really good!
quote:
Originally posted by playright:
Cambell at 2B just doesn't sound right. Cambell 1st team SS, Lowe 2nd Team SS. just my opinion so dont get bent out of shape
quote:
Originally posted by SEDbaseball:
quote:
Originally posted by Trucker83:
Sounds like only players from NR, WB, GB and Hickory should be considered.


Sounds just like every year huh? There are other good players from other teams in the SED, they just don't get mentioned, and that's a fact.


Why don't you participate constructively and start mentioning them?
Last edited by Go Dawgs
Roger Hall from IR comes to mind immediately, maybe even the kid Milvo, Stephen L. from OS also comes to mind, the kid Lilley (I think) from Lakeland, he had a great year from what I have read and is only a Sophmore I believe. My point was that some of the "lesser" programs have players worthy of 1st or 2nd team all district selection but the only ones mentioned on here are from the "top 4 teams" based on record, I suppose it is an unfortunate byproduct of not being a winning program. I don't dedicate my life to memorizing stats of 17 year old kids but the conversation seems pretty narrow and exclusive to WB, GB, NR and Hickory, just trying to prod some expansion and discussion to other teams by the commentors on here, no one needs to get butt hurt by it.
When someone starts a conversation or comment with "wasn't trying to start anything" its usually a dead give away. However, like any all-star selection in any sport the teams that win do so because they have the best players. Therefore they are more heavily represented. Having said that, the 2nd baseman for OS and catcher for Grassfield have been mentioned. So if you have anybody else name them.
However, like any all-star selection in any sport the teams that win do so because they have the best players. Therefore they are more heavily represented. Thanks for the obvious rebuttal....
I didn't say anything about Ellis from GF, I don't know alot about him but he played well when I did see him play. Again, Roger Hall from IR and maybe Milvo come right to mind, Lilley from Lakeland, they played well all year. As I was TRYING to say, alot of commentators on here went to alot of games and watched alot of kids and I was trying to prod some opinions on some different kids on different teams is all.....I figured someone would get defensive of the status quo.
quote:
Originally posted by SEDbaseball:
However, like any all-star selection in any sport the teams that win do so because they have the best players. Therefore they are more heavily represented. Thanks for the obvious rebuttal....
I didn't say anything about Ellis from GF, I don't know alot about him but he played well when I did see him play. Again, Roger Hall from IR and maybe Milvo come right to mind, Lilley from Lakeland, they played well all year. As I was TRYING to say, alot of commentators on here went to alot of games and watched alot of kids and I was trying to prod some opinions on some different kids on different teams is all.....I figured someone would get defensive of the status quo.


Not defensive at all. Rather than whine that others aren't being mentioned as you did in your first post, just make a case for them like you have done in your last post.
quote:
Originally posted by redbird5:
quote:
Originally posted by SEDbaseball:
quote:
Originally posted by Trucker83:
Sounds like only players from NR, WB, GB and Hickory should be considered.


Sounds just like every year huh? There are other good players from other teams in the SED, they just don't get mentioned, and that's a fact.


Such as?


Nick Milvo, catcher for Indian River...
quote:
Originally posted by nrbb07:
Stephen Lorkiewicz is far from the best in the SED!!! You can't even put him up with Campbell, Lowe, Best and Brown. On the other hand and this is food for thought, what if the voting goes Lowe at SS and Campbell at 2B. I know that leaves Best and Brown out, but you could put Brown at the utility spot. It would just suck for Best cause I don't know where that would leave him. I mean both Lowe and Campbell are great well round people. I know McPherson is only sophmore, but we have 3 ACC SS in the SED. That is insane!


Whoa...

I'm pretty sure that those who can READ saw the statement "best 2B in the SED no one wants to recognize" and thought:

A) They mean SECOND BASEMEN (Lowe & Campbell do NOT play 2B).
B) That it means of all of the 2B in the district who no one has mentioned, he is clearly the best.

Now... Obviously you are drunk with bias and are completely ignorant to facts needed to make a sensible argument. It makes very little sense for a biased-person like you to call out a player as being “clearly inferior”!

The facts are:
* Lorkiewicz was 2nd Team All-District 2B, as a sophomore, in 2010 behind Justin Lee (batted .396).
* He missed his junior year after separating his shoulder in game 4 of 2011... at the time he had already scored 5 runs, had 4 RBI, a .563 OBP, .500 SLG, 1.063 OPS... AND would be a more "known name" without that injury.
* Lorkiewicz’s season ended yesterday: .404 AVG (23-57), 17 runs, 4 doubles, 4 triples, 1 HR, 21 RBI (top 3 in the area according to the Pilot), 8 stolen bases, .471 OBP, .649 SLG, 1.121 OPS... and this is with missing the first 2 games due to the lingering shoulder injury.
* The young man did all of this wearing a shoulder brace for this entire season & has a slightly torn labrum in his non-throwing shoulder.
* He had a clutch 2-run single in the 7th inning of the upset over GB.
* In the "head-to-head" matchup with Brown this past Tuesday... Lorkiewicz drove in the tying & winning runs with a 2-run double in the big upset over #1 NR... while Brown went 0-4 from the leadoff spot.

Needless to say, we are all biased to the players we see regularly... but to say that Stephen Lorkiewicz isn't even in the same class as Tyler Best & Tyler Brown is absolutely senseless. Anyone, with knowledge of the facts in the argument, should be able to develop a broader scope of understanding about Oscar Smith senior Stephen Lorkiewicz… "best 2B in the SED no one wants to recognize".
Campbell and Lowe are both very deserving of a first team award. One particular coach is no longer in the district so shuffling of positions as previously mentioned might not be in the minds of the coaches. Also, when selecting a player for first and second teams, I think the main goal should be to reward the player who had the best year, not simply award a player because he is the best player. It does seem like GB, H, NR, and WB players are always mentioned because these teams are at the top of the district year in and year out. Most often, the best players and players that play the best are on the teams that win the most.
Last edited by Cool,Calm,Collected
quote:
Originally posted by '59Tiger:
quote:
Originally posted by nrbb07:
Stephen Lorkiewicz is far from the best in the SED!!! You can't even put him up with Campbell, Lowe, Best and Brown. On the other hand and this is food for thought, what if the voting goes Lowe at SS and Campbell at 2B. I know that leaves Best and Brown out, but you could put Brown at the utility spot. It would just suck for Best cause I don't know where that would leave him. I mean both Lowe and Campbell are great well round people. I know McPherson is only sophmore, but we have 3 ACC SS in the SED. That is insane!


Whoa...

I'm pretty sure that those who can READ saw the statement "best 2B in the SED no one wants to recognize" and thought:

A) They mean SECOND BASEMEN (Lowe & Campbell do NOT play 2B).
B) That it means of all of the 2B in the district who no one has mentioned, he is clearly the best.

Now... Obviously you are drunk with bias and are completely ignorant to facts needed to make a sensible argument. It makes very little sense for a biased-person like you to call out a player as being “clearly inferior”!

The facts are:
* Lorkiewicz was 2nd Team All-District 2B, as a sophomore, in 2010 behind Justin Lee (batted .396).
* He missed his junior year after separating his shoulder in game 4 of 2011... at the time he had already scored 5 runs, had 4 RBI, a .563 OBP, .500 SLG, 1.063 OPS... AND would be a more "known name" without that injury.
* Lorkiewicz’s season ended yesterday: .404 AVG (23-57), 17 runs, 4 doubles, 4 triples, 1 HR, 21 RBI (top 3 in the area according to the Pilot), 8 stolen bases, .471 OBP, .649 SLG, 1.121 OPS... and this is with missing the first 2 games due to the lingering shoulder injury.
* The young man did all of this wearing a shoulder brace for this entire season & has a slightly torn labrum in his non-throwing shoulder.
* He had a clutch 2-run single in the 7th inning of the upset over GB.
* In the "head-to-head" matchup with Brown this past Tuesday... Lorkiewicz drove in the tying & winning runs with a 2-run double in the big upset over #1 NR... while Brown went 0-4 from the leadoff spot.

Needless to say, we are all biased to the players we see regularly... but to say that Stephen Lorkiewicz isn't even in the same class as Tyler Best & Tyler Brown is absolutely senseless. Anyone, with knowledge of the facts in the argument, should be able to develop a broader scope of understanding about Oscar Smith senior Stephen Lorkiewicz… "best 2B in the SED no one wants to recognize".


Now that is how you make a case, but I would point out Brown was 2-3 with an RBI while Lorkiewicz was 0-3 from the leadoff spot in the first head-to-head matchup won by NR.
Last edited by Go Dawgs
quote:
Originally posted by redbird5:
Are you really trying to compare head-to-head games?


Agreed!

Not to take anything away from Lorkiewicz, he looks to have had a fine season. BUT, I think if one would like to utilize stats as the basis of an argument, then I will utilize the "what pitching did he hit" argument.

Clearly, a player, playing for one of the Top 4 teams, (at least this particular year), saw a steady diet of C. Jones, Blake, Rice, Brown, Bennett, etc. Which is to say that a Tyler Best or TY Brown having comparable offensive stats, to go along with stellar defensive play, puts them in a different category vs. a player who consistently saw the No. 3 or 4 every game.

That would also go for some of the other "less mentioned" names, for lower tier teams.

Some combination of the pitchers mentioned above will certainly occupy the 1st and 2nd team spots. If a position player didn't face a steady diet of that, then its difficult to give that player much consideration, when compared to other equally talented (or more so) players, who constantly faced it, and performed.

Lets be honest, NR, WB, Hickory, and GB saw their opponents best each and every game.
Last edited by GoHeels
quote:
Originally posted by GoHeels:

Agreed!

Not to take anything away from Lorkiewicz, he looks to have had a fine season. BUT, I think if one would like to utilize stats as the basis of an argument, then I will utilize the "what pitching did he hit" argument.

Clearly, a player, playing for one of the Top 4 teams, (at least this particular year), saw a steady diet of C. Jones, Blake, Rice, Brown, Bennett, etc. Which is to say that a Tyler Best or TY Brown having comparable offensive stats, to go along with stellar defensive play, puts them in a different category vs. a player who consistently saw the No. 3 or 4 every game.

That would also go for some of the other "less mentioned" names, for lower tier teams.

Some combination of the pitchers mentioned above will certainly occupy the 1st and 2nd team spots. If a position player didn't face a steady diet of that, then its difficult to give that player much consideration, when compared to other equally talented (or more so) players, who constantly faced it, and performed.

Lets be honest, NR, WB, Hickory, and GB saw their opponents best each and every game.


Without trying to step on any toes...that is probably a very accurate assessment.
Last edited by mathews41
REPONSE TO GoHeels (& mathews41):


To clear something up...


Oscar Smith:


... faced Ryan Blake & Spenser Carter (Hickory's #1 AND #2) in their 2 meetings.


... faced Troy Jones, Brian Beard, and Cooper Jones vs GB (Although not Conner Jones... it's DEFINITELY their 2, & 3) and scored 9 in the 2nd game. As a matter of fact, GB has 6 runs or less in every game this season except the 7 & 9 they allowed to NR & the Oscar Smith game. OS scored 7 earned runs in one inning with Cooper Jones starting that inning on the mound (I think some would agree that Cooper pitched in and won some pretty big postseason games for GB last year).


... faced Zach Rice & Kyle Moore vs NR (Their 1a & 2.. Again, Kyle Moore would be a clear #1 or #2 for most). This past Tuesday, before the game vs OS, the Pilot listed Moore as having the lowest Public School ERA at 0.79. Smith scored 6 earned in 4.1 IP vs Moore that night.


... faced Rutherford (twice) & Bennett vs WB (their #1 & #3)... Rutherford will be their #1 in 2013.


... faced Roger Hall & Robert White each TWICE vs IR (their #1 & #2).


... faced Robert Fitzwater TWICE vs Lakeland (their #1).


... faced Seth Winslow TWICE vs DC (their #1).


And let's be perfectly clear... in the games between the "big guns" Hickory, WB, GB, NR and Oscar Smith, who was facing "better pitching" in those 8 games in your opinion?


So weren't the "lower teir" teams at a "disadvantage" because they didn't face their own team's "sub-par" pitching, while for example, no NR batters had to face Rice, Brown, or Moore? (There are 2 sides to the coin)


Honestly, the whole All-District argument by biased parents/fans is silly in the first place... But all I would ask is that if you are going to try and diminish Lorkiewicz's or Oscar Smith's talent & accomplishments, back it with REAL FACTS, not misguided assumptions.


In all honesty though, it'd be great if you could "back your guy" without trying to knock down another player in the first place!
Last edited by '59Tiger
The fact of the matter is that WB,NR,HH,GB all have the best players. I mean you people that post have a case of A$$. Do you see the results year in, year out? Or are you just a bunch of morons that don't know the game. It's like someone post something then it gets blown up. Why can't their be 2 first team SS for (Lowe and Campbell) then Best is still in the equation. The kid from OS is an above average player at best. Their may be good players that go unnamed but thats what happens when you don't win. I'm sorry would you like a pat on the back for not making it. Man up, get the job done and win some baseball games and then you can talk about where you think your kids belong!!!
We do not base awards off of how good a player is. WE BASE IT OFF THE SEASON THEY ARE HAVING. And when you look at the statistics , this year Lorkewiez is having type of season to garnish 1st team honors. You don't move someone out of position just to satisfy the politics that go into all of this nonsense. Lorkewiez should be first team. And unless you can find a second basemen that has had a better season , then he should be first team. the same goes for the rest of the positions . Just because there are many high quality players at the same position , only one can be chosen, tough luck to the ones that didn't win , but at the end of the day, they're going to play baseball at the next level.

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