2012 BBCOR bats

Warningtrack,
I think there is no question that better performing BBCOR bats are out and will continue to hit the market. Louisville Slugger has 3 new models and Demarini has there new models rolling out also. All indications are that the new models have more pop.
Lefty...

A little skepticism here (healthy skepticism, I hope)...

Aside from beliefs and vague generalities, what kind of real evidence is there that the 2012 BBCOR bats are any better balanced, hotter, whatever, than 2011 BBCOR bats.?

How can it possibly be that there is "no question" they will be any better?

The 2011 0.50 BBCOR limitation on bats is exactly the same as the 2012 0.50 standard. If the 2011 bats that were labeled 0.50 BBCOR were really only 0.48 or 0.47 BBCOR, then why would you believe them in 2012 when they say, "This year we're really, really, really at 0.50 BBCOR" ???...."and next year, when we want to sell you a 2013 BBCOR, it'll be 0.50000 BBCOR!!! wow.

The 0.50 BBCOR standard is a line that can't be crossed (legally) so.....whatya think, after they get as close as possible to 0.50000, no new metal bat sales campaigns anymore? Sure.

About the balance thing---there is no single type of bat design that satisfies every hitter's idea of a "well-balanced" bat. That's why there are dozens of wood bat specs for hitters who use those old things...they are available with many different legal variations that affect balance, swing speed, handle flexibility, etc.

Notwithstanding the 0.50 BBCOR limitation on metal bat performance and the vague notion that you can only buy "balance" via a $300 metal bat, there are virtually no limitations on the ability of bat companies to buy carefully crafted "opinion" from well-paid shill-coaches, put war-paint on their lead pipes, and anoint their products with fearsome names.

LA, disagree with your post. I think manufacturers like LS continually improve their products, other wise they would not have remained in business for the last million years.

I think metal bat manufacturers were improving their bats in very measurable ways over a period of about 30 years.

If there were no legislated limits to how well a legal bat can perform, I think it would almost be a case of "the sky's the limit".

However, bat-design engineers must now work within a very clear performance ceiling. Beyond the most obvious kinds of lies, there is virtually no ceiling to the psychological tricks and insinuations that advertising geeks can use to sway people toward their products.

Laundry soap also went through many decades worth of technical improvements in formulation and cleansing effectiveness--but nowadays "New and Improved" is just a hollow advertising slogan. Soap companies are all selling the same product, with minor variations in color and texture, and they differentiate themselves with clever advertising campaigns.

That's what bat companies are doing, not because of any technical/engineering limitations but because of legislated BBCOR limits. Without legislated barriers to continued improvement of bat performance, engineers could probably squeeze out quite a bit more performance enhancement in metal bats than we saw in the last decade.

What is already happening is: People are getting used to the limited performance of the 0.50 BBCOR standard, and it's being accepted because, (1) there is no choice and, (2) both sides in every game are limited to the same specs, so it's fair.

Within that environment, I think bat companies are going to devote more and more resources to advertising, endorsements, enticements, and much less resources to technical innovation...after all, where's the financial return for working on actual technical improvements, when you cannot legally improve beyond the 0.50 standard?

Baseball bats are a HUGE business.

IT all depends on your perspective.

Personally I like the BBCOR change. It's going to make pitching, not just throwing HARD, a premium once again. Inside fastballs won't get fisted into a gap as much. Check swing dingers will go the way of the dinosaur.

But the players that can hit? They'll still hit.

I assume ( ) that the first go around from the manufacturers who were rushed to get product out was not the best they could do. I believe now that they have some feedback and of course time that they have made adjustments to get as close to the .50 standard as possible. They will continue to tweak.......

quote:

Originally posted by warningtrack:
I assume ( ) that the first go around from the manufacturers who were rushed to get product out was not the best they could do. I believe now that they have some feedback and of course time that they have made adjustments to get as close to the .50 standard as possible. They will continue to tweak.......

Exactly! They were rushed, and the first product out was junk but getting better. I too prefer the kids playing with BBCOR than the old BESR. The game is now being played how it should be played...

Lefty...

What I have read as far as claims by bat makers for the 2012 bats, one thing that stands out ... Bigger Sweet Spot!

Watching college baseball on TV the announcers all talk about less pop and smaller sweet spot. About the only change that can be made and still stay within the .50 BBCOR rating is the size of the sweet spot. Unless as stated before, they put out junk the first time.

You might start seeing college fences moved in.
I was talking with a college coach a couple weeks back and he said there were still some D1 schools out there without a homerun.

One of the reasons people liked college baseball was the increased offense. They could start losing fans. A few weeks ago I was watching Texas vs. TCU (I think it was) and I couldn't take it anymore and went to bed after the 13th inning and the score was still 0 - 0. Starting to be as exciting as s****r.

quote:

I think manufacturers like LS continually improve their products, other wise they would not have remained in business for the last million years.

Louisville Slugger is a great company. They built their reputation from way, way, way 'back-when' on their great wood bats and they did a terrific job with metal as well...when there was an environment for true engineering innovation and performance advances in metal bats LS was right there. They are still making nice wood bats for pros and amateur players.

They will also be able to hold on to lots of their metal bat market share because their brand name and advertising are strong--but none of that means their 0.50 BBCOR is any better than another company's 0.50 BBCOR.

Don't get me wrong--I am not against the 0.50 BBCOR limitation, I am strongly for it. The trampoline characteristics of composites were absolutely getting out of hand--it's no joke how frequently kids have been seriously injured by hot-shots off of composite-technology bats in the past several years.

Baseball is supposed to be a finely balanced struggle between offense and defense--that's what makes it a compelling game....not techno-offensive blow-outs powered by metal trampoline-bats.

Another one of the great positives of 0.50 BBCOR standard, at least potentially: Wood bats may make a real come-back in High School ball. If it happens it will be slow. There is not nearly the profit margin in natural wood bats as there is in metal products and metal bat manufacturers will try as hard as they can to keep their profit margin by controlling the public's perception...

Even so, HS players who really enjoy the sights and sounds of old-school baseball can now hit with wood without giving up any serious advantage to the 0.50 BBCOR metals. How sweet is that?

Good post LA! I agree 100%

I saw one college game on TV where the catcher, I think, hit a homerun that cleared the bleachers... totally crushed (can't remember the schools).
I was thinking.... does anybody know the time difference it takes a ball, crushed back to the pitcher, when hit with BBCOR vs. BESR? I mean a ball hit hard enough for a home run, same swing speed etc... what's the max speed on both and how long would it take to travel the first 55 feet.
After a pitcher finishes his pitch he's closer to 55 than 60 feet. How much more safety are we talking?

I think we are going to see a lot more bat doctoring especially with the bats that have had the walls thickend to meet the BBCOR standard. If they really want to stop bat tampering they can do it with a rolled end cap or unremovable one with the barrel enclosing it. I find it interesting that Louisville Slugger who went the thicker wall route on the omaha has went to using a brace or a big O ring on th 2012 Exo Grid following Easton and Demarini. I wonder if any bats have been pulled from H.S. OR college games because of suspected tampering ?

This is from Demarini on their new vexum;

"DeMarini's newest technology, called Taper Ring, allows BBCOR bats to perform at the very top of the standard. Ring placement close to the taper rather than in the barrel allows DeMarini to maintain the integrity of the sweetspot."

Now I know that's marketing but this is what I expect. They will all figure out the best way to get the maximum results.

The first ones were junk. Great BP bats though.......

Hawg,

As far as I am aware, legal BESR's were about 5% hotter than wood, right out of the box. That doesn't sound like much but it was probably the difference between many 300-foot fly-outs vs 315-foot home runs down the left-field or right-field lines. In the gaps it may have been the difference between many 350-foot fly-outs versus 370-foot home runs.

In terms of the pitcher's safety, the 5% difference is probably best expressed by batted ball speed. That is, if a hitter could send the ball back toward the pitcher at 90 mph with a 34"(-3) wood bat, then an identical swing with a new 34" (-3) BESR would send the ball back at about 95 mph. I think most players would have a more difficult time reacting to 95 mph than 90 mph.

But, in some ways, greed has killed the BESR bat standard--as if 5% advantage weren't enough, bat designers realized over the past decade or so that some metal bat construction materials get hotter, more springy, with normal use (or with illegal "rolling"). That increased the BESR advantage from 5% to really bad numbers: 10% to 15% hotter. That much advantage turned 90 mph batted balls into 100+ mph rockets coming back at the pitcher. That also turned 300-foot fly-outs into 345-foot bombs down the lines.

The BBCOR standard doesn't eliminate the possibility of batted ball injury, it re-balances the struggle between offense and defense and it lowers the probability of injury to pitchers by putting more come-backers within the range of normal human reaction time.

I've personally seen about 10 home runs hit with BBCOR bats this year--several at JUCO games, a few at D-3 college games, and even one at a D-1 college tournament held at AT&T Park in SF...I think the college game is more exciting to watch now because it clearly takes real skill and talent to hit one out of the park.

The composite bats were getting a bit out of hand. When my guys were 12, and I was coaching their Little League All Star team, they were using the composite Little Barrel Combat bats...

Some of my better hitters were hitting balls that just didn't seem possible at that age. Reaction time? You think it's tough on 60/90, try 46/60 with some pitchers hitting 70+ mph from the short mound.

I'd like to see wood make a come back personally. I think it would make scouts job easier when it comes to hitters and "all of sudden" pitching would start "Getting better"....

ct&c,

I want to see wood make a significant comeback in HS/college/rec ball too...but perception dies hard, and bat companies do have a deeply vested interest in metal, so they are not going to lead the way. On the contrary, bat companies are going to do everything they can to keep you in the habit of buying newly "upgraded" BBCOR bats every year or so.

If you want to see wood make a comeback on the ball field, buy wood and start hitting with it. You can get at least 4 really nice maple bats, or perhaps 5 nice white ash bats, for the typical price of a single 0.50 BBCOR metal bat. Wood sounds great, hits just as well as BBCOR, and may sometimes give you a psychological advantage: Hitting with wood in an all-metal environment used to be a symbol of extreme in-your-face machismo: You had to be really, really good to compete against hotted-up BESRs with a wood bat... opponents knew that and were sometimes intimidated by hitters swinging wood under those circumstances. I think some of that "reverse edge" might still exist, even though the playing field has really been leveled by BBCOR.

Unless you have extraordinarily bad luck, or you like the feeling of getting jammed inside on the handle, you are probably not going to break 4 wood bats per year at HS level. For the past two years, my son has been swinging wood in all practices, Fall Ball, and reg season HS games. He breaks maybe 2 or 3 bats per year.

LAflippen;

If you need wood bats let me know. We have a SSK Memorial Weekend tournament at SRJC, SSU and Doyle Park. Two teams from Mexico are entered.
24 games for the 12 teams.
We can place your son on a team.

Bob Williams
International Baseball
<www.goodwillseries.org>

BBCOR Bats Explained

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...ture=player_embedded


Major League Baseball scouts praise college bats

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/b...=ap-scouting-newbats

quote:

Originally posted by Sdlefty: Exactly! They were rushed, and the first product out was junk but getting better. I too prefer the kids playing with BBCOR than the old BESR. The game is now being played how it should be played...

How do you figure they were “junk” and “rushed”? Do you not understand that the they were all working on the BBCOR standard for at least 2 years, and the manufacturers knew it was coming, and had their engineers working on it for more than just a month or two.

Will they continue tweaking? Of course! That’s the nature of the beast. But to call the bats junk is casting aspersions based on facts that just aren’t in evidence.