219 of the 314 (69.7%) in the first 10 rounds in this draft were taken from D1 schools.
105 of the first 164 picks (first 5 rounds) were D1 college players.
Rounds 3-10 rounds was 181 of 236 (76.7%) D1 players.
38 of the 78 picks on Day 1 were from D1.
Stat provided by Brian Hennessy, Clemson University.
Replies sorted oldest to newest
I was thinking the top end of the draft (ten rounds) would be college dominated. High school players have to be signable due to money or not being college (academic) material. Once past premier picks teams can take more risks.
2018's entire social media foot print has been thoroughly and I thoroughly picked, and he had a couple of posts to remove..... BTW he decided on Vandy......
bacdorslider posted:2018's entire social media foot print has been thoroughly and I thoroughly picked, and he had a couple of posts to remove..... BTW he decided on Vandy......
Good for him!!!!
the teams also basically take no risks anymore and talk with the "advisors". 99% of the top10 round picks sign in these days. there are a few exceptions like appel and aiken but that is really rare.
bacdorslider posted:2018's entire social media foot print has been thoroughly and I thoroughly picked, and he had a couple of posts to remove..... BTW he decided on Vandy......
BDS, I personally think he made a wise choice. Vandy has proven to develop guys. Short of round 1 money, I would encourage my son to make the same decision if he had to do it all over again.
bacdorslider posted:2018's entire social media foot print has been thoroughly and I thoroughly picked, and he had a couple of posts to remove..... BTW he decided on Vandy......
Congrats. I am pleased to read you are actively involved with this...did your 2018 request your guidance or did you invoke your "parental authority"
2022NYC posted:bacdorslider posted:2018's entire social media foot print has been thoroughly and I thoroughly picked, and he had a couple of posts to remove..... BTW he decided on Vandy......
Congrats. I am pleased to read you are actively involved with this...did your 2018 request your guidance or did you invoke your "parental authority"
backdorslider's son got a very nice offer to give up going to Vandy, but his very smart son decided that the experience he would have at Vanderbilt with Tim Corbin is worth more than money in the bank at this time. Coach Corbin not only is a Hall of Fame college coach but he and his wife also teach players real life skills. That's just awesome to have worked with such an amazing person.
If your player is in middle school or HS and wants to play baseball at the college level, and has not been watching conference playoffs or regionals, IMO there is something wrong. Win or lose, players have exposure from national TV viewing audience they don't get in professional ball, until they MAYBE reach MLB.
Of course going to play in Omaha is a once in a lifetime experience for players and parents. Watching these players lay it all out on the field to advance is what fuels the fire for the young player to succeed. While every little boy says he wants to play MLB, every little boys dream should be to play in Omaha.
JMO
TPM posted:2022NYC posted:bacdorslider posted:2018's entire social media foot print has been thoroughly and I thoroughly picked, and he had a couple of posts to remove..... BTW he decided on Vandy......
Congrats. I am pleased to read you are actively involved with this...did your 2018 request your guidance or did you invoke your "parental authority"
backdorslider's son got a very nice offer to give up going to Vandy, but his very smart son decided that the experience he would have at Vanderbilt with Tim Corbin is worth more than money in the bank at this time. Coach Corbin not only is a Hall of Fame college coach but he and his wife also teach players real life skills. That's just awesome to have worked with such an amazing person.
If your player is in middle school or HS and wants to play baseball at the college level, and has not been watching conference playoffs or regionals, IMO there is something wrong. Win or lose, players have exposure from national TV viewing audience they don't get in professional ball, until they MAYBE reach MLB.
Of course going to play in Omaha is a once in a lifetime experience for players and parents. Watching these players lay it all out on the field to advance is what fuels the fire for the young player to succeed. While every little boy says he wants to play MLB, every little boys dream should be to play in Omaha.
JMO
We were at our local Buffalo Wild Wings yesterday after his middle school playoff semi-finals game (10-0 shutout win btw). He was watching SC light up ARK on the screen and started flipping out, the screen was behind me so I was about to remind him of how we mean parents prefer sane kids behaving in public places. He told me to turn around and I saw all the scoring going on (quite exciting too) but could not see the score because the flat screen was so zoomed in the score box was cut off. My better half was extremely frustrated during dinner as we barely had any conversations other that the hooting and hollering from all the Super Regional games on the screens.
2018 could have gone pro.... no question.... but really knew about a month ago it would take a lot of money, and honestly more than here was capable of getting in this draft. The biggest reason was the experience he can have at Vanderbilt. He might be the go to guy he might be a bullpen guy I have no idea... but what I do know is the friendships , education, life skills and the chance to play in big college games could very well happen for him.
Tim Corbin was quoted in the Nashville paper as saying these kids will never play in a game this exciting unless they make it to the MLB.... which very few do. The minors is a job and not a fun job at times. IF ...IF you get the money I get it..... but 99% don't so go to college, improve your game, mature, and take a shot when you are better prepared.
^^^^^! Yes!
Congrats, I hope it works out for him.
I assume kids like Groome would think they did the right thing as well. It depends on the student, the family and I guess the amount of money!
He signed at 3.5m and now has TJ to recover from. Not sure he was ever really considered a student option but he was a Vandy comit...at least for a longtime he was.
I figure if you’re offered seven figures and turn it down you’re too stupid to go to college. Seven figures at eighteen is a nice head start on life. You can always head for college if baseball doesn’t work out.
RJM posted:I figure if you’re offered seven figures and turn it down you’re too stupid to go to college. Seven figures at eighteen is a nice head start on life. You can always head for college if baseball doesn’t work out.
LOL but what about the college experience....actually I think 2m is more what I would advise my son if...the if isn't going to happen - but if he got drafted. I hate to minimize 1m but it really doesn't go as far people think and becomes 500k at best by the time you get it. I do agree that anything between 1m and 2m would need to be discussed and anything under 1m would probably be dismissed. That does assume he is a student, doesn't hate school and has some kind of realistic fallback plan if baseball doesn't work out.
if you have no plan and hate school take the money but you had better be smart with it or you will be digging ditches and coaching the XYZ Elite B or C team on weekends.
nothing against coaching the XYZ Elite B or C teams....just that it ain't all that glamorous.
RJM posted:I figure if you’re offered seven figures and turn it down you’re too stupid to go to college. Seven figures at eighteen is a nice head start on life. You can always head for college if baseball doesn’t work out.
We must be stupid.
Add on if you’re getting seven figures you’re getting the priority route to the majors. They want you to make it due to the investment. I causally knew someone who turned down first round money. Over three years he proved he wasn’t a first round pick. He was drafted in the 6th round for a lot less. He’s now 27 in his 4th year of AAA for his second organization.
I’m not going to do the research. But I’ll bet more players who don’t take the money prove they didn’t deserve it in the first place than double their bonus money.
I’m not against college. I have two degrees. So do my kids. I’m not telling you you’re wrong. I believe when the money is on the table you take it. College will always be there.
bacdorslider posted:RJM posted:I figure if you’re offered seven figures and turn it down you’re too stupid to go to college. Seven figures at eighteen is a nice head start on life. You can always head for college if baseball doesn’t work out.
We must be stupid.
Wouldn't be the first time I was called stupid 
. Stupidly speaking, even $1mil - $2 mil after TAXES not too much to celebrate. Still a good chunk of change to live comfortably for several years with solid financial management but still need to have a backup plan. Cannot go wrong with a degree. Best of luck at Vandy
Trust In Him posted:bacdorslider posted:RJM posted:I figure if you’re offered seven figures and turn it down you’re too stupid to go to college. Seven figures at eighteen is a nice head start on life. You can always head for college if baseball doesn’t work out.
We must be stupid.
Wouldn't be the first time I was called stupid
My point is taking the money doesn’t eliminate college and future earnings if baseball doesn’t work out. But the player gets fast tracked to the majors and has the money invested if he doesn’t waste it.
Heading for college at twenty-four with 1M+ invested isn’t a horrible deal. The last pick in the first round (43rd) walks away with about 900K after taxes.
For a pitcher a college coach doesn’t get to torch his arm for three or four years trying to get through the post season.
I took a look at some of the signing bonuses today and I don't get some of it but to each his own.
I saw a post on Twitter yesterday from Jim Callis - senior writer for mlb.com. Last year only three guys taken in the top 10 rounds didn't get signed. The year before it was two. Given how the bonus system works, it appears most teams do their homework on signability numbers for the guys they draft.
I did not know that after the 10th round there is no signing bonus. I know someone who was drafted in the 11th round but didn't see a bonus attached to his name. Awesome pitcher with electric stuff and awesome person and family. Am I correct?
I was talking with my 2022 last night and asked him what it would take for him to "go pro" as he calls it. He said "I don't think that I'd want to, I'd only be 18 and I don't think I'd be ready to be out on my own by myself, plus college baseball looks really fun, and if I'm good the money will be there later". For a 14U, I was actually sort of impressed that he had thought it out that much.
1. Not every family is prepared to send their kid to college financially.
2. Not every family is rolling in the dough and can afford to pass up the draft money
3. Not every player is prepared to become a man at 18. I consider a kid in college becoming a "Man-Light". Before anyone comments, mine did this and grew up across the 3 years there.
I'm sure this has been posted but here it is again (its older data but i bet it holds):
https://d1baseball.com/analysi...aft-study-1996-2011/
Florida State Fan posted:I did not know that after the 10th round there is no signing bonus. I know someone who was drafted in the 11th round but didn't see a bonus attached to his name. Awesome pitcher with electric stuff and awesome person and family. Am I correct?
Each pick in the first 10 rounds has a slot value. Each team can spend up to the combined total of their slot values without paying a luxury penalty (they don't have to pay each guy their individual slot value). They can also pay their round 11-40 picks up to $125K each in bonus without paying the luxury penalty. Anything above $125K for an individual counts against their total allotment, so they don't do that very often. Here's an example of what the Indians paid in bonuses last year.
russinfortworth posted:I was talking with my 2022 last night and asked him what it would take for him to "go pro" as he calls it. He said "I don't think that I'd want to, I'd only be 18 and I don't think I'd be ready to be out on my own by myself, plus college baseball looks really fun, and if I'm good the money will be there later". For a 14U, I was actually sort of impressed that he had thought it out that much.
That is really impressive, Russ! Probably best to hold off a while longer on addressing the "plus college baseball looks really fun.." 
russinfortworth posted:I was talking with my 2022 last night and asked him what it would take for him to "go pro" as he calls it. He said "I don't think that I'd want to, I'd only be 18 and I don't think I'd be ready to be out on my own by myself, plus college baseball looks really fun, and if I'm good the money will be there later". For a 14U, I was actually sort of impressed that he had thought it out that much.
It’s good perspective for a fourteen year old until you hang a couple of million dollars in front of him. The money may not be there three years later. The player could get injured. He could spend three years in a major conference proving he can’t even succeed at that level. There are Gatorade Players of the Year who wash out of college ball or prove they are competent college players and nothing more.
For every action there’s a reaction. A kid my son played travel with stayed back a year entering high school. After his junior year it was decided he was ready for big time college baseball. He was 6’4” 220. He got his GED and headed for a big time program. The coach hailed him as possibly his best recruit ever. He didn’t start in three years by opening of conference play. Had he stayed in high school for his senior year and destroyed the league he probably would have gone in the first three rounds and got his shot. Money was not an issue in this situation.
In turn a kid from our high school was drafted in the 7th round when he said he would pass on a powerhouse, ranked academic. He didn’t sign for anywhere near a million. But he felt he owed his grandmother for raising him. He looked in the mirror and saw a high school stud. After the fact (released after three years of failure in low minors) he told me what he failed to see was he was headed for the minors as a 6’1” 170 physically underdeveloped 17yo to compete with mostly 21 and 22yo men.
I noticed that a 4YR sophomore signed with the Royals this year, and it made me wonder... does a 4YR junior who was draft eligible as a sophomore have any more leverage than a senior when it comes to negotiating a signing bonus? I'm guessing he would not.
Shoveit4Ks posted:1. Not every family is prepared to send their kid to college financially.
2. Not every family is rolling in the dough and can afford to pass up the draft money
3. Not every player is prepared to become a man at 18. I consider a kid in college becoming a "Man-Light". Before anyone comments, mine did this and grew up across the 3 years there.
I'm sure this has been posted but here it is again (its older data but i bet it holds):
https://d1baseball.com/analysi...aft-study-1996-2011/
Great post, the value of money is a variable based off what you have, need and desire.
1M to some is life changing, to others it is just a data point. Keep in mind you are seeing 1/2 after taxes, you need 2m to see around 1m, that changes the math dramatically.
I can tell you I would have pushed hard for my 18 yr son to go to college. Life in the minors would have destroyed him, he had his struggles with his first semester but battled through and had a nice year. Living alone in some dump apartment in whatever rookie ball town he would landed in - Wow that would have been ticking time bomb. He would have failed...and accomplished nothing. That isn't an insult to him that is just the facts, this coming year he may have been ok, much changes in the 12 months from start of Freshman to Sophomore year. I have seen that in person.
I do think teams understand who are really interested in going to school or not. There is no way they just waste a pick in the top 5 or even 10 rounds if they don't believe they have a high chance of getting the kid.
old_school posted:Shoveit4Ks posted:1. Not every family is prepared to send their kid to college financially.
2. Not every family is rolling in the dough and can afford to pass up the draft money
3. Not every player is prepared to become a man at 18. I consider a kid in college becoming a "Man-Light". Before anyone comments, mine did this and grew up across the 3 years there.
I'm sure this has been posted but here it is again (its older data but i bet it holds):
https://d1baseball.com/analysi...aft-study-1996-2011/
Great post, the value of money is a variable based off what you have, need and desire.
1M to some is life changing, to others it is just a data point. Keep in mind you are seeing 1/2 after taxes, you need 2m to see around 1m, that changes the math dramatically.
I can tell you I would have pushed hard for my 18 yr son to go to college. Life in the minors would have destroyed him, he had his struggles with his first semester but battled through and had a nice year. Living alone in some dump apartment in whatever rookie ball town he would landed in - Wow that would have been ticking time bomb. He would have failed...and accomplished nothing. That isn't an insult to him that is just the facts, this coming year he may have been ok, much changes in the 12 months from start of Freshman to Sophomore year. I have seen that in person.
I do think teams understand who are really interested in going to school or not. There is no way they just waste a pick in the top 5 or even 10 rounds if they don't believe they have a high chance of getting the kid.
Some organizations are good about placing younger players in homes with structure and guidance like in college summer programs. The Red Sox even place younger AA players in family’s homes.
RJM posted:old_school posted:Shoveit4Ks posted:1. Not every family is prepared to send their kid to college financially.
2. Not every family is rolling in the dough and can afford to pass up the draft money
3. Not every player is prepared to become a man at 18. I consider a kid in college becoming a "Man-Light". Before anyone comments, mine did this and grew up across the 3 years there.
I'm sure this has been posted but here it is again (its older data but i bet it holds):
https://d1baseball.com/analysi...aft-study-1996-2011/
Great post, the value of money is a variable based off what you have, need and desire.
1M to some is life changing, to others it is just a data point. Keep in mind you are seeing 1/2 after taxes, you need 2m to see around 1m, that changes the math dramatically.
I can tell you I would have pushed hard for my 18 yr son to go to college. Life in the minors would have destroyed him, he had his struggles with his first semester but battled through and had a nice year. Living alone in some dump apartment in whatever rookie ball town he would landed in - Wow that would have been ticking time bomb. He would have failed...and accomplished nothing. That isn't an insult to him that is just the facts, this coming year he may have been ok, much changes in the 12 months from start of Freshman to Sophomore year. I have seen that in person.
I do think teams understand who are really interested in going to school or not. There is no way they just waste a pick in the top 5 or even 10 rounds if they don't believe they have a high chance of getting the kid.
Some organizations are good about placing younger players in homes with structure and guidance like in college summer programs. The Red Sox even place younger AA players in family’s homes.
RJM is correct. Son is in Boise, Idaho and is living with a host family. I have no idea how it works at the other levels with the Rockies, but this is a great set up.
I know a host family who came home at midnight and found the player bending their 18 year old daughter over the sofa...true story. It was consensual but needless to say it didn't end well!! She was a cute, had just graduated HS and was ugh I guess was prepping for college...can't say many would blame the kid but damn her mother was pissed!!
not sure if that would have impact on his draft position but it is a great story.
MidAtlanticDad posted:Florida State Fan posted:I did not know that after the 10th round there is no signing bonus. I know someone who was drafted in the 11th round but didn't see a bonus attached to his name. Awesome pitcher with electric stuff and awesome person and family. Am I correct?
Each pick in the first 10 rounds has a slot value. Each team can spend up to the combined total of their slot values without paying a luxury penalty (they don't have to pay each guy their individual slot value). They can also pay their round 11-40 picks up to $125K each in bonus without paying the luxury penalty. Anything above $125K for an individual counts against their total allotment, so they don't do that very often. Here's an example of what the Indians paid in bonuses last year.
Everyone hasn't signed yet, so there may not be a dollar amount listed. It's a waiting game to see who at the top signs for what amount to see if there is any/how much money is left over for the 11-40 round guys. Keep checking. Sometimes deals are worked out before the draft to go in later rounds for more money than $125k, just as you see some $5k-$10k-$25k bonus guys in the 7-10th rounds (usually seniors with no other options).
I the last years the draft trend was slightly leaning towards college players because you have more data against good competition meaning less bust potential and also college players arriving quicker in the majors which is a plus too.
High school players tend to have a higher ceiling because the top talents will be drafted out of high school but also a higher bust rate.
Teams currently seem to be interested more on floor rather than ceiling. Dansby Swanson is a good example of this. He was a mature hitter with a lot of good tools across the board but not really a single plus tool. He was drafted first overall despite teams knowing he likely won't be a star hitter but they liked that he had a good chance of becoming a 270 hitter with 15 bombs and solid defense at shortstop.
9and7dad posted:I saw a post on Twitter yesterday from Jim Callis - senior writer for mlb.com. Last year only three guys taken in the top 10 rounds didn't get signed. The year before it was two. Given how the bonus system works, it appears most teams do their homework on signability numbers for the guys they draft.
They have to have a good idea what they will sign for. This is usually worked out prior to the draft pick announcement. "Note: If a team fails to sign a player, the slot value from that pick is removed from the bonus pool. This is why you’ll see teams heavily taking college seniors in the 6 to 10 round range: the team can sign those players for $1,000 to $10,000, and “save” money to be applied elsewhere in the Draft." If you fail to sign a top draft pick worth several million $$ it will create big problems and other penalties may occur with bonus pool.
Trust In Him posted:9and7dad posted:I saw a post on Twitter yesterday from Jim Callis - senior writer for mlb.com. Last year only three guys taken in the top 10 rounds didn't get signed. The year before it was two. Given how the bonus system works, it appears most teams do their homework on signability numbers for the guys they draft.
They have to have a good idea what they will sign for. This is usually worked out prior to the draft pick announcement. "Note: If a team fails to sign a player, the slot value from that pick is removed from the bonus pool. This is why you’ll see teams heavily taking college seniors in the 6 to 10 round range: the team can sign those players for $1,000 to $10,000, and “save” money to be applied elsewhere in the Draft." If you fail to sign a top draft pick worth several million $$ it will create big problems and other penalties may occur with bonus pool.
I think the teams do negotiate with the "advisors" before the draft and get pretty much a hard number,both agents and teams know pretty much how much the player is worth. If you don't sign a player you lose the bonus pool money, but you get the pick back next year although I think one pick worse.
astros did that when they low balled aiken after realising he had a damaged UCL. lost the pick and the bonus money but they did get the second pick in alex bregman next year. worked out pretty well for them. they failed to sign their 5th rounder Jacob nix that year due to the lost bonus but bregman became an above average mlb player while aiken seems to be a bust.
astros really dodged a bullet of wasting another first overall pick after Mark appell plus they were able to use that extra money they lost last year to sign Daz cameron out of HS which they otherwise couldn't likely have done.
Looking at the signing bonus on draft tracker, there had to be a lot of prior discussion and as usual the player got hosed. In other words they made deals land just inserted the player where it was most beneficial. I see a lot of 5k and 10k signings in slots that were worth much more than the player signed for.
Teams still have the upper hand in the draft. Don't ever forget that.
There are good teams and good players in every college conference but MLB clearly sees the SEC as having the best players. Here are the # of players just drafted in each of the Power 5 conferences : SEC : 99 ACC : 75 PAC 12 : 49 BIG 12 : 47 BIG 10 : 37 To reinforce other posts about slot value, college seniors having no leverage, etc.......A college senior that I help coach went in the 7th round and signed for 20K. Was agreed to before the pick was made.
adbono posted:There are good teams and good players in every college conference but MLB clearly sees the SEC as having the best players. Here are the # of players just drafted in each of the Power 5 conferences : SEC : 99 ACC : 75 PAC 12 : 49 BIG 12 : 47 BIG 10 : 37 To reinforce other posts about slot value, college seniors having no leverage, etc.......A college senior that I help coach went in the 7th round and signed for 20K. Was agreed to before the pick was made.
This year for sure. 99 is an incredible number -- 7 per school on average. Last year the SEC and ACC tied with 75 players drafted apiece.
One note. I believe the tax situation has changed dramatically for guys in the seven figure range.
roothog66 posted:One note. I believe the tax situation has changed dramatically for guys in the seven figure range.
It only changed 2.6%
| Rate | Individuals | Married Filing Jointly |
| 10% | Up to $9,525 | Up to $19,050 |
| 12% | $9,526 to $38,700 | $19,051 to $77,400 |
| 22% | 38,701 to $82,500 | $77,401 to $165,000 |
| 24% | $82,501 to $157,500 | $165,001 to $315,000 |
| 32% | $157,501 to $200,000 | $315,001 to $400,000 |
| 35% | $200,001 to $500,000 | $400,001 to $600,000 |
| 37% | over $500,000 | over $600,000 |
RJM posted:roothog66 posted:One note. I believe the tax situation has changed dramatically for guys in the seven figure range.
It only changed 2.6%
True, but a 2.6% drop in the tax rate equals a 5.08% drop in the amount of tax paid. Given only the personal deduction, a player in the 2017 draft would have paid $338, 714.62 in federal income tax. A 2018 draftee would pay $321, 488.25. A $17,226 savings may only be a 5% reduction in tax paid, but, hell, a 18yo minor leaguer could stretch that into living money for a year if he had to. Of course none of this takes state taxes into consideration and that can differ drastically from case to case. Anyway, $17k can pay a lot of bills.
Note: none of this is to be taken as an endorsement of the recent "tax cuts" which I am politically against, but if I had a million dollars...maybe I wouldn't be?
As to the thought that a million only becomes $500-600k after taxes...that's 8 and 1/2 years of income for the average American family...on the low end...before taxes.
roothog66 posted:As to the thought that a million only becomes $500-600k after taxes...that's 8 and 1/2 years of income for the average American family...on the low end...before taxes.
but compared to the earning power of degree from say Vandy or UVA it is not much money at all...hence why it was stated that the value of money is a variable. 8.5 years go very fast and a kid who crapped out of baseball and is now digging ditches or is a small town lawyer obviously has limited his lifetime earning power tremendously.
I honestly don't know the average household income for a family but I don't think it is relative in terms of a country. the costs of goods varies by similar amounts to the wages in a local area. Supply and demand and all that kind of stuff....plus the demographics of sport come into play.
IMO a college Jr needs to take the money and run, he is mature enough to finish remaining degree if he chooses.
A HS kid who considers himself a student needs to bank 7 figures or damn close to it or he should go to school.
I am always in favor of everyone paying less taxes...it makes for the best minor league!
old_school posted:roothog66 posted:As to the thought that a million only becomes $500-600k after taxes...that's 8 and 1/2 years of income for the average American family...on the low end...before taxes.
but compared to the earning power of degree from say Vandy or UVA it is not much money at all...hence why it was stated that the value of money is a variable. 8.5 years go very fast and a kid who crapped out of baseball and is now digging ditches or is a small town lawyer obviously has limited his lifetime earning power tremendously.
I honestly don't know the average household income for a family but I don't think it is relative in terms of a country. the costs of goods varies by similar amounts to the wages in a local area. Supply and demand and all that kind of stuff....plus the demographics of sport come into play.
IMO a college Jr needs to take the money and run, he is mature enough to finish remaining degree if he chooses.
A HS kid who considers himself a student needs to bank 7 figures or damn close to it or he should go to school.
I am always in favor of everyone paying less taxes...it makes for the best minor league!
It is not my position that it's a bad idea to pass up the money, just pointing out that it's funny how cavalierly we treat a half million after taxes. Median family income in US is around $59K and the avg. is around $71K.
FYI, Uncle Sam takes 25% off the top, not for the very small bonuses paid out. Most of the larger bonuses are paid out in 2 payments, one after the draft and another in March. So a million payout is 500k, less 12.5% regardless of what tax bracket you will fall in. Then there is the agents fee, a good guy will split his fee in two payments. And then there are your state taxes.
The MLB scholarship fund isn't what most think it is. Whatever you have negotiated, gets reduced each time you move up a level for no less than 90 days. And then, believe it or not, you pay taxes on that scholarship money, which earns no interest.
I have been to this rodeo, so lets say a milllion after taxes, etc. becomes 700k which is a nice chunk of change. But I wouldnt let my son who is headed off to a college world series contender spend his time in the lower levels of milb. Ever.
JMO
I got the under 700k from a 1m
TPM posted:FYI, Uncle Sam takes 25% off the top, not for the very small bonuses paid out. Most of the larger bonuses are paid out in 2 payments, one after the draft and another in March. So a million payout is 500k, less 12.5% regardless of what tax bracket you will fall in. Then there is the agents fee, a good guy will split his fee in two payments. And then there are your state taxes.
The MLB scholarship fund isn't what most think it is. Whatever you have negotiated, gets reduced each time you move up a level for no less than 90 days. And then, believe it or not, you pay taxes on that scholarship money, which earns no interest.
I have been to this rodeo, so lets say a milllion after taxes, etc. becomes 700k which is a nice chunk of change. But I wouldnt let my son who is headed off to a college world series contender spend his time in the lower levels of milb. Ever.
JMO
And note that the 25% "off the top" is not enough to cover the tax bill for those who don't do much to protect that money then they get hit with a big surprise the next April. Paid out in 2 payments at least makes it all taxable at a lower %.
By the time a player pays the taxes on a million dollar bonus he’s lost 37 to 50% depending on the state. But still the last pick in the first round received 1.6 gross this year. That’s 800K to 1M net. Signing and taking the bonus doesn’t prevent to player from attending college later.
roothog66 posted:TPM posted:FYI, Uncle Sam takes 25% off the top, not for the very small bonuses paid out. Most of the larger bonuses are paid out in 2 payments, one after the draft and another in March. So a million payout is 500k, less 12.5% regardless of what tax bracket you will fall in. Then there is the agents fee, a good guy will split his fee in two payments. And then there are your state taxes.
The MLB scholarship fund isn't what most think it is. Whatever you have negotiated, gets reduced each time you move up a level for no less than 90 days. And then, believe it or not, you pay taxes on that scholarship money, which earns no interest.
I have been to this rodeo, so lets say a milllion after taxes, etc. becomes 700k which is a nice chunk of change. But I wouldnt let my son who is headed off to a college world series contender spend his time in the lower levels of milb. Ever.
JMO
And note that the 25% "off the top" is not enough to cover the tax bill for those who don't do much to protect that money then they get hit with a big surprise the next April. Paid out in 2 payments at least makes it all taxable at a lower %.
Yes, who knows exactly what they will end up paying in taxes. I almost threw up when I saw what sons first check really was. We live in Florida so no state taxes.
Then a lot of the kids go out and spend a lot on boy toys. They don't know how to save and their parents don't educate them on being responsible.
BTW, they don't split the payments to help the player out. Teams claim to be cash poor when first checks are drawn. You dont get drafted and paid right away. Ask if I feel badly for them.
I don't.
well according to Forbes 27% of MLB is foreign born, I feel comfortable speculating that the vast majority of them didn't go to college...so that leaves with what maybe 5% ish of players who didn't go to college?
life gets in the way, go to school, have fun, play hard, drink beer, chase girls, study well...Jeez I feel like Kenny Chesney could write a song about this.
I just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't taking any position on passing on draft $$$, just pointing out that it is easy for us to talk about $500K after taxes when it's hypothetical. It's a little more complicated in the real world. This decision is a very, very, circumstantial one in which several factors must be considered:
1) What school are you committed to?
Stanford and Akron are not equal.
2) What is your family's financial situation?
Again, Vandy from a family that can help support you for three years is not the same as coming from poverty with a 30% scholarship from Northern Colorado
3) Are you ready to play professional ball?
Emotionally, this is a big step into the real world for an 18yo. Are you emotionally ready and mature enough to step into the brutal realities of low-level minor league ball that is a business? A world where the real competition isn't on the field, but rather is the guy sitting next to you in the bullpen?
4) What are the chances you will improve your draft status in three years?
This may be THE factor when talking money in the high-six-to-seven-figure range. If you're a big-time talent headed to a Power 5 school and don't feel like you've fully developed yet, this could be a big time, low risk gamble that could turn a million dollar bonus into 5 million if you're willing to wait.
My 2018 turned down money from two clubs wanting to draft (nowhere near the money we're talking about - NOWHERE near). However, if he entered pro ball now, as a young 18yo, he'd most likely be pigeon-hold into a reliever slot. He needs more work and development. What he doesn't need is years of bus travel and bad living conditions. However, he's not going to Vandy or Stanford, so, almost no matter how he develops in college, he's not coming out of it as a top half of the first round guy. For him, a third round slot would have been something with enough money that he wouldn't have gambled by passing it up.
roothog66 posted:
2) What is your family's financial situation?
Again, Vandy from a family that can help support you for three years is not the same as coming from poverty with a 30% scholarship from Northern Colorado
I don't think most people realize how much of a difference this is between baseball and football. What is a smart kid who has zero money for college going to do with a 75% offer from Vandy? Where is he going to get the other $15K per year to attend. He can borrow the money, but that's really betting on yourself in a big way. Easy for us to say that a Vandy degree is well worth that investment in the long run, but much tougher for the guy who's trying to keep his scholarship, work toward a meaningful degree, and survive with very little money.
MidAtlanticDad posted:roothog66 posted:
2) What is your family's financial situation?
Again, Vandy from a family that can help support you for three years is not the same as coming from poverty with a 30% scholarship from Northern Colorado
I don't think most people realize how much of a difference this is between baseball and football. What is a smart kid who has zero money for college going to do with a 75% offer from Vandy? Where is he going to get the other $15K per year to attend. He can borrow the money, but that's really betting on yourself in a big way. Easy for us to say that a Vandy degree is well worth that investment in the long run, but much tougher for the guy who's trying to keep his scholarship, work toward a meaningful degree, and survive with very little money.
A lot of factors. For Vandy or Stanford, for example, the need-based aid is SO generous that any low income kid with a 25% scholarship isn't going to need family money. Heck, even families with decent incomes will be covered. It's the HUGE advantage private schools and a few public schools with huge endowments have over the rest of the baseball recruiting world.
Everyone's situation is different. 2018 had a number and if a club hit that number , he would have gone and we would have supported him with housing , vehicle, insurance, cell phone just like I did the other sons while they were in college.
While he could have agreed to what some would feel was a steep number, and went to rookie ball, you have to factor in many variables some of which have been listed in this post. Frankly, 600k is a lot of money to me.... but when you compare it to the scholarship dollars he is receiving at Vanderbilt, and future earning potential for life, 600k is not that much.
I know the MLB scholarship fund is sold to players but think about it. What is going to mature you as a person and allow you to find out who you really are and who you want to be? Going to Vanderbilt ( or similar ) at this point and time in your life when you are 18-19 or going to low level pro ball with little supervision?
maybe for some low level pro ball would make you "grow up fast" but for me I would rather see him continue to improve as a person and a player as well as start working towards his degree.
For instance, Vanderbilt allows all former players to return to school and if you are still playing pro ball you have your own locker, shower and so on. 2018 is already enrolled in a summer class with another incoming freshman pitcher from Ga. They will start with the trainer and nutritionist working out on campus this summer and the class will lighten his class load next spring. Not to mention the facilities , and perks..... charter flights, expense account
So in this case we feel he is setting himself up for not only a shot at the 2020 ( draft eligible soph) or the 2021 draft but also a worthy degree and shot at Omaha.... then go into pro ball and basically skip the low levels, and if he's good enough , pro ball will work out, if not the degree could be worth 200K or more for life.
I mean he's not going to the MLB in 2-3 years anyway ( if ever) so why not spend that time at college? 2018 got a text from a friend who did sign took the money and is already in rookie ball.... he's not so impressed with it.
TPM posted:roothog66 posted:TPM posted:FYI, Uncle Sam takes 25% off the top, not for the very small bonuses paid out. Most of the larger bonuses are paid out in 2 payments, one after the draft and another in March. So a million payout is 500k, less 12.5% regardless of what tax bracket you will fall in. Then there is the agents fee, a good guy will split his fee in two payments. And then there are your state taxes.
The MLB scholarship fund isn't what most think it is. Whatever you have negotiated, gets reduced each time you move up a level for no less than 90 days. And then, believe it or not, you pay taxes on that scholarship money, which earns no interest.
I have been to this rodeo, so lets say a milllion after taxes, etc. becomes 700k which is a nice chunk of change. But I wouldnt let my son who is headed off to a college world series contender spend his time in the lower levels of milb. Ever.
JMO
And note that the 25% "off the top" is not enough to cover the tax bill for those who don't do much to protect that money then they get hit with a big surprise the next April. Paid out in 2 payments at least makes it all taxable at a lower %.
Yes, who knows exactly what they will end up paying in taxes. I almost threw up when I saw what sons first check really was. We live in Florida so no state taxes.
Then a lot of the kids go out and spend a lot on boy toys. They don't know how to save and their parents don't educate them on being responsible.
BTW, they don't split the payments to help the player out. Teams claim to be cash poor when first checks are drawn. You dont get drafted and paid right away. Ask if I feel badly for them.
I don't.
Like to add a couple of things to TPM. Financial adviser mentioned that those athletes who go to college 3 - 4 years are USUALLY more responsible when dealing with finances and planning. There is a tendency that those who will buy a fancy expensive toy are the high schoolers.
Also, it can be put in the contract if the bonus will be split up. Not saying the MLB club will accept it but it can. Son's team did split up the signing bonus over 2 calendar years. Still got nailed by taxes/
bacdorslider posted:Everyone's situation is different. 2018 had a number and if a club hit that number , he would have gone and we would have supported him with housing , vehicle, insurance, cell phone just like I did the other sons while they were in college.
While he could have agreed to what some would feel was a steep number, and went to rookie ball, you have to factor in many variables some of which have been listed in this post. Frankly, 600k is a lot of money to me.... but when you compare it to the scholarship dollars he is receiving at Vanderbilt, and future earning potential for life, 600k is not that much.
I know the MLB scholarship fund is sold to players but think about it. What is going to mature you as a person and allow you to find out who you really are and who you want to be? Going to Vanderbilt ( or similar ) at this point and time in your life when you are 18-19 or going to low level pro ball with little supervision?
maybe for some low level pro ball would make you "grow up fast" but for me I would rather see him continue to improve as a person and a player as well as start working towards his degree.
For instance, Vanderbilt allows all former players to return to school and if you are still playing pro ball you have your own locker, shower and so on. 2018 is already enrolled in a summer class with another incoming freshman pitcher from Ga. They will start with the trainer and nutritionist working out on campus this summer and the class will lighten his class load next spring. Not to mention the facilities , and perks..... charter flights, expense account
So in this case we feel he is setting himself up for not only a shot at the 2020 ( draft eligible soph) or the 2021 draft but also a worthy degree and shot at Omaha.... then go into pro ball and basically skip the low levels, and if he's good enough , pro ball will work out, if not the degree could be worth 200K or more for life.
I mean he's not going to the MLB in 2-3 years anyway ( if ever) so why not spend that time at college? 2018 got a text from a friend who did sign took the money and is already in rookie ball.... he's not so impressed with it.
With ya all the way, BDS, until the "then go into pro ball and basically skip the low levels". VERY rare in my limited experience. We had a guy drafted top of the second with a seven figure signing bonus. Just like many others in his situation, he started in rookie ball and in year 2, is in advanced A despite decent success. Seems like even very good P's drafted high still go through at least most of the levels and 'the process".
cabbagedad posted:bacdorslider posted:Everyone's situation is different. 2018 had a number and if a club hit that number , he would have gone and we would have supported him with housing , vehicle, insurance, cell phone just like I did the other sons while they were in college.
While he could have agreed to what some would feel was a steep number, and went to rookie ball, you have to factor in many variables some of which have been listed in this post. Frankly, 600k is a lot of money to me.... but when you compare it to the scholarship dollars he is receiving at Vanderbilt, and future earning potential for life, 600k is not that much.
I know the MLB scholarship fund is sold to players but think about it. What is going to mature you as a person and allow you to find out who you really are and who you want to be? Going to Vanderbilt ( or similar ) at this point and time in your life when you are 18-19 or going to low level pro ball with little supervision?
maybe for some low level pro ball would make you "grow up fast" but for me I would rather see him continue to improve as a person and a player as well as start working towards his degree.
For instance, Vanderbilt allows all former players to return to school and if you are still playing pro ball you have your own locker, shower and so on. 2018 is already enrolled in a summer class with another incoming freshman pitcher from Ga. They will start with the trainer and nutritionist working out on campus this summer and the class will lighten his class load next spring. Not to mention the facilities , and perks..... charter flights, expense account
So in this case we feel he is setting himself up for not only a shot at the 2020 ( draft eligible soph) or the 2021 draft but also a worthy degree and shot at Omaha.... then go into pro ball and basically skip the low levels, and if he's good enough , pro ball will work out, if not the degree could be worth 200K or more for life.
I mean he's not going to the MLB in 2-3 years anyway ( if ever) so why not spend that time at college? 2018 got a text from a friend who did sign took the money and is already in rookie ball.... he's not so impressed with it.
With ya all the way, BDS, until the "then go into pro ball and basically skip the low levels". VERY rare in my limited experience. We had a guy drafted top of the second with a seven figure signing bonus. Just like many others in his situation, he started in rookie ball and in year 2, is in advanced A despite decent success. Seems like even very good P's drafted high still go through at least most of the levels and 'the process".
Oh I am not saying he would skip rookie and low A , even A entirely. But he would have much shorter stints at those levels. depending on the team and the round, most teams are not drafting you at 21-22 to play any longer than you have to in the low rounds. Sure you will make "stops" there but they want a player drafted high out of college to be able to get a shot in 2-3 years... If not they spent too much money on him.
If you look at the history of Vanderbilt players taken in the top 5 rounds ( and believe me I have ) they are, barring injury, at least fast tracked to AA.... Fulmer, Buehler, Wright, Kendall, Cothan, Hill, Price, Gray, Flaherty, Swanson, Weil, It's a long list.
bacdorslider posted:Everyone's situation is different. 2018 had a number and if a club hit that number , he would have gone and we would have supported him with housing , vehicle, insurance, cell phone just like I did the other sons while they were in college.
While he could have agreed to what some would feel was a steep number, and went to rookie ball, you have to factor in many variables some of which have been listed in this post. Frankly, 600k is a lot of money to me.... but when you compare it to the scholarship dollars he is receiving at Vanderbilt, and future earning potential for life, 600k is not that much.
I know the MLB scholarship fund is sold to players but think about it. What is going to mature you as a person and allow you to find out who you really are and who you want to be? Going to Vanderbilt ( or similar ) at this point and time in your life when you are 18-19 or going to low level pro ball with little supervision?
maybe for some low level pro ball would make you "grow up fast" but for me I would rather see him continue to improve as a person and a player as well as start working towards his degree.
For instance, Vanderbilt allows all former players to return to school and if you are still playing pro ball you have your own locker, shower and so on. 2018 is already enrolled in a summer class with another incoming freshman pitcher from Ga. They will start with the trainer and nutritionist working out on campus this summer and the class will lighten his class load next spring. Not to mention the facilities , and perks..... charter flights, expense account
So in this case we feel he is setting himself up for not only a shot at the 2020 ( draft eligible soph) or the 2021 draft but also a worthy degree and shot at Omaha.... then go into pro ball and basically skip the low levels, and if he's good enough , pro ball will work out, if not the degree could be worth 200K or more for life.
I mean he's not going to the MLB in 2-3 years anyway ( if ever) so why not spend that time at college? 2018 got a text from a friend who did sign took the money and is already in rookie ball.... he's not so impressed with it.
Great way to look at it overall. Think about it this way. For a player who falls into roughly the same category as your guy, they would arrive at MLB at basically the same time regardless of which route you take. Let's say you get real nice $$ & sign out of HS at 18. You are going to Rookie Ball, Low A, High A, AA, Maybe AAA all depending on development & results.
If you go 3 years to Top Shelf University & then sign in the same spot, you are probably going right to low A, then brief stops at High A, AA & maybe right to the show depending. So you are looking at trading 3 years at low level MILB vs 3 years at Vandy etc. No brainer........Unless you are looking at First Round $$ out of HS then maybe you take the $$ only if your kid can handle the MILB scene on a maturity level.
BDS -
A lot depends on the team that drafts the player. Some moves them up faster than others.
College players end up in short season college leagues. Mine was in high A his second season with the Cardinals.
HS players end up at the complex. It will take them at least 4 or 5 seasons to get to a ML team, IF that happens.
A pitcher who was drafted last year from Southern, a D2, is in high A, same organization.
Backdorslider,
You don't need to explain Ethans decision. I know how hard it was. He chose wisely. It's about him, but you will enjoy the next 2, 3 years a lot more than if he headed out to professional. Tell him Mrs. Kopp said so...lol.
Jeren Kendall, out of Vanderbilt, is still in High A ball in his 2nd year of Pro Ball at age 22, and he was a first round draft pick. Ultimately you have to produce. There is pressure both ways. When you are 22 in High A competing against some 19 & 20 year olds, the clock is ticking....
I think it comes down to the individual. If my kid was a pitcher I'd be a little scared of him playing college ball, if he has pro aspirations. The college game can be abusive to arms. For position players, it really depends on which program wants him and hundreds of other factors... Just my quick 2 cents
You are correct you have to produce.... and if you don't then it's nice to have VU education, or at least 3/4 of it. The only player in recent history that I remember having an arm issue was Buehler...
