2019 commitment

Lookimg for some advice. My son is a 2019 graduate who recently verbally committed to a D1 school. He had numerous offers from lower school that included athletic and academic money. He turned them down to have a chance at playing D1 baseball. The coach did not offer him athletic money stating they just didn’t have any more 2019 money but did give him academic money, basically a preferred walk on. Coach said that if he comes in, works hard then he can earn athletic money his Sophomore year. Curious as to if we made the right decision. Any thoughts are appreciated. ThAnks. 

Original Post

I recently mentioned this on another post but academic money is unrelated to baseball. The coach cannot give out academic money, only the university can. If your son goes to walk-on and doesn't make the team, he would still keep the academic money. 

As for the decision. If that is what he wanted and works for your family, it sounds like it was the right decision. I wouldn't hold your breath too much with the money, but if he can walk-on and make an impact hopefully his coach will reward him. Congrats

Walking on is uphill sledding - and it never changes.  I know this because I did it.  I was successful only because I was a hard throwing pitcher - and a hard throwing pitcher will always get a look.  But to get on the field a walk-on has to perform noticeably and consistently better than the scholarship players he is competing with.  Not just a little better - a lot better.  This hardly ever happens. The odds are way better for a pitcher than a position player. But something everyone needs to understand before they decide to turn down scholarship opportunities in favor of walking on is this : the amount of $ that a baseball program has invested in a player directly correlates to the amount of opportunity that player will receive.  Its as simple as that! 

who and what qualifies for academic money is a grey area, there is always a range of what qualifies. IMO any coach with cred is going to be able to go admissions and get you "academic money that you qualify for" I believe they will get you the highest amount possible and quite likely more. I believed this happens everywhere and in most sports! 

My nephew received  90% financial package from an A10 school in hoops. They were out of scholarship money but liked him, he was a stud in HS...plus his GPA helped the program. He ended up paying little over 5k per year for a 55k school. He was the official practice player and towel waver on the end of the bench but got to play in the NCAA, take carter flights and be treated like a start due to being the team. His grades and scores were good very good but not full ride academic money good!! 

Nobody will convince me that this doesn't happen in all partially funded sports. It happens in all walks of life every day. 

BBall Dad2001 posted:

Lookimg for some advice. My son is a 2019 graduate who recently verbally committed to a D1 school. He had numerous offers from lower school that included athletic and academic money. He turned them down to have a chance at playing D1 baseball. The coach did not offer him athletic money stating they just didn’t have any more 2019 money but did give him academic money, basically a preferred walk on. Coach said that if he comes in, works hard then he can earn athletic money his Sophomore year. Curious as to if we made the right decision. Any thoughts are appreciated. ThAnks. 

Welcome to the site.  When you say "basically a preferred walk on", what exactly was promised to your son?  A tryout?  Guaranteed spot thru Fall?  Guaranteed roster spot?  There are varying loose definitions of preferred walk on and this is important.  

Also, what level of confidence and how realistic is that confidence that your son has that he will be able to out-perform scholarship players right away?

Since he has already committed, what is behind the question?  Would a change be considered if the right information became available? 

Thanks for the reply. They offered him a guaranteed roster spot. We were very late in the recruiting game and had a bunch of NAIA and JUCO colleges in Arizona giving him both athletic and academic money but his dream was to play D1. He verbally committed a couple of weeks ago and was curious as to if we made the right choice or should he with go back to schools with better offers or wait and see how his senior season goes. I believe he will compete for playing and has a good shot at playing D1. The coach said that he knows he can hit and play 1B, to have a better shot at earning a spot in the lineup he should learn the OF. He has been doing a great job in fall ball learning the OF. Thanks again for your reply. 

Don't start second guessing.  it will lead down a rabbit hole that is hard to climb out of.  Just enjoy it and plan for the future.  Nobody has a guaranteed spot if they are given baseball money or not.  Things and people change.  Just remind your son he will have to work extra hard between now and then to earn his playing time, but so will the kids who got money.  I think a lot of parents second guess but remember your son got a good offer no matter where the money came from and he gets to live out his dream of playing D1 ball.  Take a deep breath and step away from the ledge.  He will be ok.

BBall Dad2001 posted:

Thanks for the reply. They offered him a guaranteed roster spot. We were very late in the recruiting game and had a bunch of NAIA and JUCO colleges in Arizona giving him both athletic and academic money but his dream was to play D1. He verbally committed a couple of weeks ago and was curious as to if we made the right choice or should he with go back to schools with better offers or wait and see how his senior season goes. I believe he will compete for playing and has a good shot at playing D1. The coach said that he knows he can hit and play 1B, to have a better shot at earning a spot in the lineup he should learn the OF. He has been doing a great job in fall ball learning the OF. Thanks again for your reply. 

Guaranteed roster spot shows a decent degree of commitment from the coach, as good as it gets in regards to preferred walk on.  Agree with Pitchingfan that second guessing is not a good thing and I was reluctant to respond, thus the questions.  I also agree with him that  nobody really has a guaranteed spot.   Your son should latch on to the opportunity and work his butt off to prove the coach's words right, and more importantly, drive his dream to reality.  

Congratulations to him and best of luck!

My son was in a similar situation but coach told him while they didn't have money for his freshman year, he would get money for the next three years. They also promised him that he wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the kids who get money and the kids who didn't in the first year. So far, it's been absolutely true. Son said at Thanksgiving that's he's learned more baseball through the fall season that he would have in four yeas at another school.

I agree with those who say don't second guess it. No matter where you go, all you're really getting is a chance to prove yourself. It might be harder to do at a D1, but at least your son will know that he tried and won't have to second himself later in life — gosh, if I had tried D1, where would I be now???

BBall Dad2001 posted:

Thanks for the reply. They offered him a guaranteed roster spot. We were very late in the recruiting game and had a bunch of NAIA and JUCO colleges in Arizona giving him both athletic and academic money but his dream was to play D1. He verbally committed a couple of weeks ago and was curious as to if we made the right choice or should he with go back to schools with better offers or wait and see how his senior season goes. I believe he will compete for playing and has a good shot at playing D1. The coach said that he knows he can hit and play 1B, to have a better shot at earning a spot in the lineup he should learn the OF. He has been doing a great job in fall ball learning the OF. Thanks again for your reply. 

As others have said, the coach has nothing to do with Academic money....your son gets what he's qualified for...same as any other student.  The coach can't "find" extra academic money.  You can go to the schools website and find the academic money.  See if it matches up with what the coach told you.  If not, I'd be sure to verify before your son enrolls.

Here's what I've seen in my son's 3+ years at a D1.   Not trying to make this sound harsh, but I'm willing to be a lot of others will agree with me.....so here goes

1) guaranteed roster spot means you're son will be on the team....nothing more.  No playing time, no nothing.

2) walk-ons, even with guaranteed roster spots rarely stick around more than 1 or 2 years...sometimes not even that long

3) if your son is a HS 1B and that's where the coach sees him, the likelihood of "learning to play the OF" in D1 is very, very slim.   Heck, stud high school SS come in and sometimes can't "learn" to play  the OF.  It's tough....I don't know your son, but it just seems highly that a 1B would transition to an OF

Lastly....don't take anything I said as a reason to not take a shot at it.  My son wanted to play D1...and he would have done the same thing if he hadn't been offered baseball money if it was his only option.    3+ years in, he's happy and it's worked out well.....but I can tell you a lot of his friends from HS & travel ball who were "fringe" D1 guys who went D1 despite having other options haven't had the same luck.  I know at least a dozen, some walk on, some scholly who just didn't make it....and a couple of them were highly recruited, but just weren't the right fit for D1 for multiple reasons.

I can tell you as the parent of a kid that played everyday growing up (SS and pitcher) that he wouldn't be happy being the 33rd guy on a team...and never having hope of seeing the field.  We made sure he knew that going in.  He wanted to play.  You just REALLY need to make sure your son is prepared to work hard in practice every day.....and MAYBE not see an AB or the field all year.....as that's essentially what he has been offered.   Can it end up different.....sure.....but it's going to take a phenomenal amount of work on his part to make it happen.

Buckeye 2015 posted:
BBall Dad2001 posted:

Thanks for the reply. They offered him a guaranteed roster spot. We were very late in the recruiting game and had a bunch of NAIA and JUCO colleges in Arizona giving him both athletic and academic money but his dream was to play D1. He verbally committed a couple of weeks ago and was curious as to if we made the right choice or should he with go back to schools with better offers or wait and see how his senior season goes. I believe he will compete for playing and has a good shot at playing D1. The coach said that he knows he can hit and play 1B, to have a better shot at earning a spot in the lineup he should learn the OF. He has been doing a great job in fall ball learning the OF. Thanks again for your reply. 

As others have said, the coach has nothing to do with Academic money....your son gets what he's qualified for...same as any other student.  The coach can't "find" extra academic money.  

 

Buckeye I agree with many many of your posts here, you get it in a big picture way....however I think you are just wrong here. 

A coach can't necessarily "find" money. I will agree with that as a statement of truth - but and this is a huge but - He can be connected to the ultimate decision makers who do. Schools can prioritize students in any reasonable way. Any student can get a min or max of what they are eligible for. There are typically multiple scholarships available, they can be pointed in the right direction, they can be on the list as a virtual guarantee for a percentage of funds when maybe there is not enough funds for every eligible student etc. There are a million ways, ok not a million but many ways to funnel things "properly" as needed.

This happens in every school, every church, every business, every non profit - every damn place that there are human beings that have something that is important to a person with influence and decision making power - INCLUDING COLLEGES AT ALL LEVELS. To think or believe it doesn't happen...please stop - it is just incorrect and honestly not reasonable. 

 

 

 

 

Old School....I guess my statement came out kind of wrong.  The OP said the "coach did give him academic money".  That's the basis for my statement.  That can't happen......which is why I said they need to "verify" what the coach told them before they commit to enrolling.  I'm aware that at some schools....let's say Vandy....that there are huge amounts of money available outside of the academic scholarships....but again, it's not up to the coach to determine that, though I'll agree that they can point people in the right direction and could probably "help" if needed.   Again, I was basing my comments on the OP's comment and want him to be clear on what he's getting before making a decision, if money is part of the equation

10/4 Buckeye my bad!

I get so aggravated and I probably should just ignore it because it honestly doesn't matter but there is a huge % in the baseball community that believe it. Like you mentioned Vandy, fair enough I agree. Nobody believes these kids who are studs are going there getting the 25% min divided by 25 kids...and nobody believe that the ones who aren't getting baseball money aren't getting ridiculous amounts of "academic money" over and beyond reasonable. Don't get me wrong, I am actually on board with it, if was a coach I would want it as well and work damn hard to find the right people at my school to facilitate it!!

Again I gave the example of it higher up in this thread where I have a family member who benefited from it in another sport, I know for certain that is as true as any of us are here typing! I know for a fact it also happens at the D3 level so it sure as a heck is going on all over the place.

Does anyone really believe that the top 50 70 schools can fill rosters up of 35 with 11.7 and no other support from the school? In schools that have boosters who care and they spend millions on the facilities...it just isn't reasonable but yet many smart honest good intentioned people either believe it or are just lying to themselves because they want to believe it.

ok end rant! have a great night.

Thanks again everyone for your thoughts and suggestions.  I made it sound like the coach was giving him academic money and just wanted to clear that up that wasn't the case.  Coach brought us out and simply said he was out of 2019 recruiting monies but my sons grade were such that the school would give him 75% of the tuition with a guaranteed roster spot.  I have no doubts that he will work his ass off to compete for playing time.  He had numerous full ride offers to NAIA, D2 and JUCO colleges that he ultimately turned down to have a chance at playing D1. I'm super proud of him academically as well as athletically.  Appreciate all of the feedback as we were wondering if we did the right thing, guess time will tell. 

It sounds like this is the right fit for you son, so congratulations! We are learning in my son's recruiting process that a guaranteed roster spot can be a good option, especially if your timing is a bit late and the school is a good fit academically and socially as well. Go for it!

Not to be a downer, but just know as a walk-on there is no such thing as a guaranteed roster spot. Without money attached there is no guarantee he will be on the roster. There is not even a guarantee the scholarship players will make the spring roster. Either way you still have to go in thinking you're competing for a starting spot. 

PABaseball posted:

Not to be a downer, but just know as a walk-on there is no such thing as a guaranteed roster spot. Without money attached there is no guarantee he will be on the roster. There is not even a guarantee the scholarship players will make the spring roster. Either way you still have to go in thinking you're competing for a starting spot. 

No "guarantees" is correct....but a coach can "tell" you that you have a spot....and I guess you just have to take him at his word.   Ex) a coach has 27 scholarship players and has 8 other kids coming in.  He can tell 4 of them they have a spot....meaning the other 4 are competing for 2 spots (if he is carrying 33).   Again, no guarantees...but most coaches who offer it that way will at least honor it for the first year.

old_school posted:

10/4 Buckeye my bad!

I get so aggravated and I probably should just ignore it because it honestly doesn't matter but there is a huge % in the baseball community that believe it. Like you mentioned Vandy, fair enough I agree. Nobody believes these kids who are studs are going there getting the 25% min divided by 25 kids...and nobody believe that the ones who aren't getting baseball money aren't getting ridiculous amounts of "academic money" over and beyond reasonable. Don't get me wrong, I am actually on board with it, if was a coach I would want it as well and work damn hard to find the right people at my school to facilitate it!!

Again I gave the example of it higher up in this thread where I have a family member who benefited from it in another sport, I know for certain that is as true as any of us are here typing! I know for a fact it also happens at the D3 level so it sure as a heck is going on all over the place.

Does anyone really believe that the top 50 70 schools can fill rosters up of 35 with 11.7 and no other support from the school? In schools that have boosters who care and they spend millions on the facilities...it just isn't reasonable but yet many smart honest good intentioned people either believe it or are just lying to themselves because they want to believe it.

ok end rant! have a great night.

Old school....you are absolutely correct.  Depending on the school, it's not tough to get academic money coming out of HS.  My son was a 25% kid as far as baseball money....but he also had a little more than that in academic money.  At a state school the qualifications are clearly spelled out on their website....with regard to HS GPA and ACT.  You meet both you get $XXXX.   When the coach called and offered he said you'll get $XXXX baseball money and $XXXX academic money.  So we knew the total.   Of course my son has to keep his grades up to keep the academic money....so that's on him, but his total $$$$ was over 50% of the cost of attendance....while costing the baseball team 25%

and then on top of the academic portion, which is well earned, there are the private endowment type monies. X amount a year for the student who applies for whatever the name of it is. Also the memorial scholarships and so forth.

I have a friend of mine who set up an endowment for kids in the business department of his alma matter in his dads name, he has some loosely written criteria but he has a tremendous influence on where it goes. He is an extremely wealthy man, his school is thrilled to have him, if he wanted to support the baseball team directly it wouldn't be real hard without it being posted as such.

He has donated more then most people will earn in several life times, the money goes where he wants it to go.

Johns Hopkins just received 1.5 Billion - for admissions - so the school wouldn't have to worry about not getting the students they want due to price. How hard would it be to fit in a few baseball players into that category without naming it as such? By no means am I saying they are actually operating that way but if they so chose and the donator had no problem with it how would anyone ever know? They wouldn't.

From the extremely wealthy I have gotten to know in my business life, one thing I have learned is the money will get what it wants one way or the other. Am a bit jealous? sure but it will never change!!

From what I've seen no one has a guaranteed roster spot.  The kid with the big scholarship % better perform or he will be gone quickly.  In fact, I think that kid has more pressure on him than anyone else. 

As far as walk ons.  There are plenty of programs that have had a lot of success with walk ons including a few recent national champs.  Everyone assumes that the 11.7 gets divided up among 27 players, but at a lot of places it can be more like 20-22 guys on money and the rest on academic or no money.  Do your research and figure out which schools have an active recruited walk on program.  

BBALLDad2001, best of luck to your kid.  If that is his dream school, go for it.  If it doesn't work out he can say he gave it a shot.  Then he can transfer to a D2 or JUCO, or he can move on with his life as a student. 

old_school posted:

and then on top of the academic portion, which is well earned, there are the private endowment type monies. X amount a year for the student who applies for whatever the name of it is. Also the memorial scholarships and so forth.

I have a friend of mine who set up an endowment for kids in the business department of his alma matter in his dads name, he has some loosely written criteria but he has a tremendous influence on where it goes. He is an extremely wealthy man, his school is thrilled to have him, if he wanted to support the baseball team directly it wouldn't be real hard without it being posted as such.

He has donated more then most people will earn in several life times, the money goes where he wants it to go.

Johns Hopkins just received 1.5 Billion - for admissions - so the school wouldn't have to worry about not getting the students they want due to price. How hard would it be to fit in a few baseball players into that category without naming it as such? By no means am I saying they are actually operating that way but if they so chose and the donator had no problem with it how would anyone ever know? They wouldn't.

From the extremely wealthy I have gotten to know in my business life, one thing I have learned is the money will get what it wants one way or the other. Am a bit jealous? sure but it will never change!!

You are 100% correct and every school has these types of scholarships.  The Maw and Paw memorial scholarship awarded to students who have exhibited great leadership skills.  There are hundreds of these at every college and it takes one phone call for an athlete, a booster's kid, a legacy, etc, to get that scholarship.

 

There doesn't need to be any shenanigans. At about 15-20 schools, there is financial aid available to each and every student, all of it grants (not loans), which of course means it is available to baseball players. See

https://www.texasmonthly.com/n...inancial-aid-policy/

Just by way of example, below is Stanford's. So if your family income is $175,000, at Stanford the kid will likely get 50%+ off the sticker price in grants, not loans, which sure beats a 25% baseball scholarship. Same is true for Vanderbilt and Duke, and  Rice just instituted a no-loan financial aid approach for incomes below $150,000, and the Ivies have been doing it for a number of years. So at Princeton, for example, 100% of families with incomes between $160,000 and $180,000 qualified for grants, and the average grant to them was $43,900. Again, that beats the heck out of a 25% baseball award.

 

Average Scholarship/Grant for the Class of 2020

The average amount of Scholarship and Grant from all sources received by need-based aid recipients in the current freshman class is $51,614. This includes $49,896 average scholarship from Stanford as well as grant funds received from federal, state and private resources. The table below shows the average scholarship and grant by income range for dependent students whose families live in the United States.

Total (Gross) Family IncomeAverage Scholarship and GrantAverage Net Cost% of applicants who qualify for scholarship aid from Stanford
*most who qualify have 2 (or more) children in college
Less than $ 65,00068,0974,83299%
65,000 - 95,00060,9637,82499%
95,000 - 125,00052,29516,039100%
125,000 - 155,00041,56226,81699%
155,000 - 185,00036,77531,58994%
185,000 - 215,00026,48141,91184%
215,000 - 245,000*17,92650,40171%
Greater than $245,000*20,12946,56834%

Please note the table is for 2 kids in school and makes no mention of assets, on top of your income.  So you essentially need double the Average Net Cost to determine your EFC.

I don't want any newbies to think if they're making $185,000 and sending one kid to school, they'll a $30,000 Financial Aide Grant.  Not gonna happen...

CTbballDad posted:

Please note the table is for 2 kids in school and makes no mention of assets, on top of your income.  So you essentially need double the Average Net Cost to determine your EFC.

I don't want any newbies to think if they're making $185,000 and sending one kid to school, they'll a $30,000 Financial Aide Grant.  Not gonna happen...

Nope. That asterisk is for the last two categories (215-245, and above 245). The asterisk doesn't apply to the other categories.

Edited: yes, assets play a role. That's likely why even the lowest income categories don't have 100% who qualify.

2019Dad posted:
CTbballDad posted:

Please note the table is for 2 kids in school and makes no mention of assets, on top of your income.  So you essentially need double the Average Net Cost to determine your EFC.

I don't want any newbies to think if they're making $185,000 and sending one kid to school, they'll a $30,000 Financial Aide Grant.  Not gonna happen...

Nope. That asterisk is for the last two categories (215-245, and above 245). The asterisk doesn't apply to the other categories.

Edited: yes, assets play a role. That's likely why even the lowest income categories don't have 100% who qualify.

Assets play more of a role some places than others.

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