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Our 2019 committed yesterday to a HA school in the A-10.  Over the past 18 months he has been engaged with coaches from small Midwestern D3s, to NESCAC, Patriot League, Ivy league, Big 10 and WAC.  I wanted to take a minute to thank this community and to pass along what we have learned.  I started lurking on HSBBW 4+ years ago, joined and engaged a few years ago, and began connecting with some specific people directly over the past 18 months.  I'd like to thank Gooseegg, bransonbaseball, fenwaysouth, Gov, smokeminside, strainedoblique for their interest, great advice and genuine caring about our boy and his future.

Building on yesterday's thread about debunking the myth of D1 recruiting, our experience is that it is truly a myth.  Coaches don't stop recruiting ever, but what catches their eye might be very specific. Here is the journey:

As a family, the goal was always to use baseball to get into a school that he otherwise might not be able to attend. Our son was a primary catcher with a good arm for his entire playing career until summer before his junior year when he began to pitch.  He attended HF in Sacramento in June of 2017, played in tournaments in the West that summer.  He did receive some follow up attention from D3 coaches that summer and he maintained that communication throughout.

During the fall of junior year, he worked really hard to begin transition from thrower to pitcher.  We lived on the websites for Eric Cressey and Driveline as he tried to cram years of pitching experience into a season.  At the same time he studied for the ACT.  He took the ACT in October, played in the AZ Fall Classic and went to HF in Jupiter in November.  He performed very well at HF as both a catcher and pitcher and got significant interest - calls, texts - from D3 and D1 HA schools.  He attended 2 Ivy camps in January.

Following the HS season where he was focused on transitioning from C to P he played at the NorCal WS, HF in Sacramento, and Showball in Long Island.  The NorCal WS changed the game for him because it exposed him to a different set of serious baseball schools that he had not considered.  2 Big 10 schools and a Big Sky school - that conventional wisdom would have said were done with recruiting - engaged him leading to a scholarship offer and a walk-on offer.  Each of these opportunities was driven by a very specific thing these coaches wanted - my son throws a very unconventional breaking ball that paired well with his fastball, and these coaches wanted that combination.  The NorCal WS also got him an opportunity to try out for the Area Code games which seems to have served as positive external validation for some coaches.

There are some recruiting "rules" we have followed - cast a wide net, truly identify the skill level of the player, tighten the focus to schools that fit, actively engage in relationship  building and follow up between player and coach.  Here are a few additional observations that may be useful:

1 - Variability - academic and athletic - can be challenging.   Our son had very good ACT, PSAT, and AP scores, and a "spotty" GPA.  Even though its a 3.5,  the combination of scores and GPA make it very challenging to have consistent conversations with colleges.  At HA D3 schools there were some that were upfront and said "we'd love to have you play for us, but your grades won't work and good luck", at others it was "you are a yellow light from admissions but we think we can make it work" to "you are greenlit from admissions".  At some academic D1s including Ivies it ranged from " all we need is a 30 and a 3.0" to "your tests will make it work" to " your tests are great but your grades won't work".  Long story short - academic variability is more difficult to overcome than potentially weaker but more consistent performance. 

Athletic variability is also a challenge but easier to understand.  Lots of discussion here about projectability vs. near term impact.  We have seen this play out.  At the D3 level, coaches were willing to let him play both ways, with projectibility being a nice upside if he developed.  At the D1 level there are 2 camps.  The Ivies seem to want polished impact players as freshman, and others are more willing to bet on developing a kid with a "high ceiling".

So - academic variability was challenging with D3s that wanted him as a player and athletic variability - the gap between current performance and ceiling - was challenging for HA D1s.

2 - Extremely wide range of coaches, and recruiting behaviors.  Broadly, it seems there is a generational transition happening, with  schools with long-standing coaches (20+ years) and then a new generation of coaches who are 35-40 years old.  It's too simple to make it an old school/new school story but the younger coaching staffs who are looking to make their careers at their schools tend to engage at a more personal level, they are "contemporary baseball" students -  talking about driveline and rapsodo and hitting philosophies.  This can be an easier path to relationship development, and may also provide more comfort about the permanance of a coaching staff.  Additionally, the "younger" generation appear to be more interested in player development than in simply coaching a finished product.

We also found that there are widely varying levels of "salesmanship" and transparency that are independent of generation.  We chased shiny objects that in hindsight were likely always BS.  And he met coaches that were 100% real and straight up and transparent.

3 - Headfirst works.  I am a true believer.  He ended up with 4 offers from D3 to D1 based on relationships started at HF.  AZ Fall Classic works - but only if the kid does the reach out work beforehand.  The NorCal World Series is excellent exposure and if your kid is at the right level of development following their sophomore year it could be extremely valuable for him.

4 - Listen to your son - He got an offer in June from a HA D1 that his mom and I thought was a good fit.  He wasn't sure and eventually decided to say no.  At that time, his other offers were a very small D3 and a state school D1 that was not a fit.  He had been having good, very honest conversations with the school he eventually accepted and he believed in the coaches, and in the fit of the school for him.  His mom and I lost sleep worrying about saying no and running the risk of ending up in a spot that might not be good for him.  In the end - he was right and that belief/confidence and relationship development that got him there was his alone.  Which for the 99% of kids who won't play professionally is probably the best lesson he can take from the process.

Sorry for the length, but perhaps there is something in that journey that might be useful to  folks on the journey.

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Handcontrol posted:

Great story!  Congrats! 

On the whole are most/all HA's only looking at unweighted GPA's when you talk about a 3.5/30ACT minimum?

I don't want to hijack the fact that you really asked this of alf648 but my wife and son just got back from a tour of HA D3s in Ohio and New England and from what they relayed to me, from these fairly exclusive schools anyway, they don't really look at weighted vs unweighted exactly, rather they look at grades vs the difficulty of the curriculum. I think this is because most of these don't have a hard-and-fast formula that is used for admissions like some other larger schools. I guess they have the ability to assess each case individually, factoring in many variables. They all stressed the school profile and individual performance. My impression is that they want the student to be the right fit as much as the student wants the school to be the right fit, as opposed to have a 3.5 GPA, 28 ACT, and pay X dollars and you're admitted. I'll be interested as to what others have to say in this regard since this is our first experience dealing with small, private, academically exclusive schools. Both my older kids went to larger state schools and I don't remember it being nearly this complicated.

Last edited by tequila

Handcontrol

In our experience, unweighted GPA in the most rigorous classes the school offers matters more than weighted.  The challenging thing is that every school seems to have a distinct approach and every kid is unique. For example, at one NESCAC a kid with a 3.9 unweighted and 30 ACT, and another with a 3.5 unweighted with a 34 ACT were both considered borderline to admit.  There are a broader set of variables at play.

In the end baseball fit ( can the kid play at the level + how does his skill set fit the exact need of the program) seems to be the most important thing and reflect how much the school wants the player.  Next is academics which is a combo of GPA/Rigor and tests.  This reflects how easy/hard it will be to get the kid admitted.  Last is personality/fit - does the kid fit the values/goals of the program, will he add or detract from the team dynamic, can the coach see him in the dugout for 4 years.  This last piece is truly unique to each potential kid/school situation and it can be a tiebreaker

What we found is that the first hurdle, baseball fit, led everything.  Some HA D3s have NO wiggle room on academic fit, while others (NESCAC and beyond) do have some ability to overcome academic "deficiency", but only if the kid is their #1 target.  D1 is even more driven by baseball fit because they can manage the academics across the recruited class.  The real challenge is getting CLEAR feedback on how the player's skills meet the exact needs of the program, not just "can my kid play at this level?".  If the player doesn't meet a specific baseball need for the program, the academic piece just keeps getting kicked down the road, and it's very easy to waste time. 

 

Another great post, ALF.  To your first point, baseball aside, admissions staff at colleges have data and notes on lots and lots of high schools. They know which schools offer many AP courses and which offer none, which schools grade soft and which grade hard, and which schools have sent students a particular college and have done well there, or have  not.

RE paragraph three -- this is very true.  The HC of a very highly selective D3 program told my 2017 straight up after HeadFirst that his grades were not going to cut it. Two weeks later HC called to say, guess what, I can get you in. My guess is that he heard a couple of no's before he could get to yes on my son.

I just marvel at how/where folks are getting all of this admissions information? 

My son was told he was an admissible candidate at a HA D1 in the Northeast, but they didn’t offer us a huge explanation as to why, and frankly we really didn’t care to know. I guess you can get wrapped around the axle about all of this stuff, but until a coach says they want you and asks you for your transcripts and scores and gives you a thumbs up on the pre-read all the speculation is kind of pointless.

If you're referring to my post directly above, Gary, it's simple.  The first paragraph is assembled from information stated in admissions interviews and/or sessions at schools like UVA, Duke, Lehigh, Bucknell, and Hopkins. The second paragraph is a personal anecdote.

BTW I'm sure that the use of data by admission is much more pervasive and much more detailed than most people imagine.

Wasn’t necessarily aimed at you, JCG, just an observation. I guess people are likely getting into the weeds on the admission criteria for these schools with or without baseball, so their research has probably been going on for a while. Not intended as a slight or anything, we just never looked that hard into the HA school admission criteria before because like everything else in the recruiting process, nobody has a crystal ball and odd things happen that make you go hmmmm.....

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