2020 - When is it too late?

There is absolutely plenty of time, as only P5 have really recruited for 2020 and the summer of rising senior year is the time.  But, I didn't catch why he won't be playing travel ball, as that will hurt him.  Surely, there's a team he can play for, no?

First off, sorry to hear about your son’s injury and glad to hear he finally got a correct diagnosis and has recovered. Yes, there is still time.

Free tuition is great - if the kid can play at that level. Don’t think for a second that a college coach at any level is going to take a lesser player just based on the fact that they come at less cost. More to the point, you want your kid to be “a counter” if at all possible. If the school has a financial interest in the player (scholarship $) then that is the best scenario to make a spring roster. Knowing that a player comes with no cost may help in some programs, but it also means they aren’t going to offer as much (if any) scholarship $ either. It’s a catch 22.

Without knowing your son’s current measurables, it’s hard to say what his chances are. There are a metric ton of 2020 who aren’t committed yet who will play college ball at every level, so I don’t think you are too late. His grades are good, not great, and that will probably exclude the Ivy and Patriot league schools.  Lots of schools don’t even recruit their classes until the players’ rising senior summer, so get strong and get on their radars now. Start communicating.

you are in a great position to get your kid thru college at no real cost (housing and meals, personal expenses excluded). That is like hitting the lottery! Hope baseball works out for him as well.

I think there is plenty of time, but I would get some updated measurables prior to high school season. Maybe find a local winter event that could give him a baseline?

CTbballDad posted:

There is absolutely plenty of time, as only P5 have really recruited for 2020 and the summer of rising senior year is the time.  But, I didn't catch why he won't be playing travel ball, as that will hurt him.  Surely, there's a team he can play for, no?

It was just a matter of being discouraged at not being able to perform at 100% for the teams he wanted to play for and not wanting to return to his prior team that would not be playing in the tournaments where he might be seen.  In all honesty, my son't love of playing the game may be coming to an end--this Spring's HS season will no doubt be the deciding time.  If he finds that he loves it again, and he plays well I'm sure he can either find a team that needs one more player or he can find some opportunities as a sub throughout the season.

BBMomAZ posted:

I think there is plenty of time, but I would get some updated measurables prior to high school season. Maybe find a local winter event that could give him a baseline?

I have suggested the same to my son, but at this point he's lukewarm towards baseball, so no true motivation to workout hard for a showcase.  He doesn't want to showcase until he is in shape and knows he can put up good numbers.  He's agreed that if this HS season goes well, he will showcase in the summer following the season.  

I think the challenge is not knowing where he stands because then he won't know what he's working toward. If he doesn't want to do a full showcase, is there a local training facility where you could pay to get some of these measurables for your own use?

I would say there is plenty of time. My son is 10 weeks post-op from surgery for a torn labrum in his throwing shoulder. He's a 2019 and we have nowhere near given up hope, and won't until it becomes clear that rehab won't result in a return to form.

My recommendation would be for your son to work hard to get in the best shape he can, especially with strength and conditioning, over the winter. If he works with private instructors on baseball-specific stuff, then all the better....continue that. Find a good throwing program to get his arm in shape for spring, and get some measurables at that time. Make a plan of events through the summer where he can be exposed to coaches from the schools he's interested in, whether that be through tournament play, showcases/camps, or a little of both. In the mean time, he should be reaching out to these same coaches and letting them know his level of interest and schedule. You've probably read all of this out here before but just showing up and hoping he gets noticed has not been a historically reliable method so I would emphasize getting some dialog going with coaches of interest prior to the events. If you can manage some video that would be good to add to an email and/or recruiting page. These guys are ultimately going to need to see him play but you've got a good window still left for that. Best of luck!

** Edited to say take this with a grain of salt as my son has yet to be offered anything so my plan might not be all that effective!

Good luck this spring and with a full recovery.  I just want to add that in no way does a 3.7 gpa and a 30+ ACT score exclude Ivy and or Patriot possibilities!  Yale baseball players have an average 31 ACT.  This means some boys are lower!  He is within an acceptable range for sure, but will depend on his athletic ability.  More stud = will go a little lower on academics.  Ivies (and NESCACs too for D3) have to balance their class.  I wanted to correct that in this thread someone does not assume that they are out of the running for high academic D1 and D3 schools, especially since you say 30+ and have no specific number yet.  

There is time. Let him play high school, get some updated measurables. Buy a pocket radar and get his velocity/exit velocity. If his numbers are good, contact some teams and let them know he was injured but this is where he's at now. 

However if travel teams aren't interested and he's only lukewarm about baseball, might be time to stick to local rec/travel ball and apply to colleges as a regular student

Ps. Those grades are definitely good enough for Patriot League schools without baseball. Ivy might be a stretch but he's fine 

BBMomAZ posted:

I think the challenge is not knowing where he stands because then he won't know what he's working toward. If he doesn't want to do a full showcase, is there a local training facility where you could pay to get some of these measurables for your own use?

Agree completely, just not sure when my son's passion might start to return again...  For year's he's always pulled me out to the fields whenever possible to hit flyballs and throw him BP, or he's outside setting up a net and hitting off the tee...  Those things are not happening right now.  I have decided to take a wait and hope approach.  Let him take whatever time off he needs and hope that when his winter workouts start for HS ball he catches the desire again to see where he can take his game.  He is at least still looking forward to this HS season to see how things go.

tequila posted:

 

** Edited to say take this with a grain of salt as my son has yet to be offered anything so my plan might not be all that effective!

Hi Tequila, I think we've shared a few PM's.  I know I have followed your son's progress, seeing as how we share the same setback.   I am REALLY pulling for you and your son and hope he finds a great fit where he can continue playing!  Appreciate your feedback.

DALEX posted:

tequila posted:

 

** Edited to say take this with a grain of salt as my son has yet to be offered anything so my plan might not be all that effective!

Hi Tequila, I think we've shared a few PM's.  I know I have followed your son's progress, seeing as how we share the same setback.   I am REALLY pulling for you and your son and hope he finds a great fit where he can continue playing!  Appreciate your feedback.

You're right, we sure have and I've appreciated your input. Thanks again and best to you guys as well!

DALEX posted:

BBMomAZ posted:

I think the challenge is not knowing where he stands because then he won't know what he's working toward. If he doesn't want to do a full showcase, is there a local training facility where you could pay to get some of these measurables for your own use?

Agree completely, just not sure when my son's passion might start to return again...  For year's he's always pulled me out to the fields whenever possible to hit flyballs and throw him BP, or he's outside setting up a net and hitting off the tee...  Those things are not happening right now.  I have decided to take a wait and hope approach.  Let him take whatever time off he needs and hope that when his winter workouts start for HS ball he catches the desire again to see where he can take his game.  He is at least still looking forward to this HS season to see how things go.

Best of luck! I hope he has a successful school season and finds his passion again. There may also be opportunities for him to play club ball in college.

There is plenty of time, but only if he really works at it.  By that I mean he needs to bust his butt working out, getting stronger, faster etc and let the chips fall where they may.  Has he reached out to coaches in all divisions including JUCO?  Has he said he wants to play in college?  I believe that if a kid really wants to play, he will find a way.  He would also need to be realistic in his ability and where he could possibly play.  It is most likely a little late for P5 D1 schools, but there are so many other schools where he could play, plus with his grades, that will open some options.  My suggestion would be for you to sit down with him and tell him to work like he has never worked before and have no regrets looking back wondering what if.   Dont let him use the injury as an excuse.  There are many posters on here who's son's went thru similar and came out stronger on the other side.  Best of luck to him moving forward and please keep us posted on his progress 

Yes there is still time if the desire is there. Son had similar story, missed entire junior year of HS with shoulder injury. I would recommend Stanford and Headfirst since he sounds like a bright kid. Son was offered fall of senior year after attending Stanford camp in the summer. He even had coaches calling him after his senior HS season asking if he had committed. So there is time!

FriarFred posted:

There is plenty of time, but only if he really works at it.  By that I mean he needs to bust his butt working out, getting stronger, faster etc and let the chips fall where they may.  Has he reached out to coaches in all divisions including JUCO?  Has he said he wants to play in college?  I believe that if a kid really wants to play, he will find a way.  He would also need to be realistic in his ability and where he could possibly play.  It is most likely a little late for P5 D1 schools, but there are so many other schools where he could play, plus with his grades, that will open some options.  My suggestion would be for you to sit down with him and tell him to work like he has never worked before and have no regrets looking back wondering what if.   Dont let him use the injury as an excuse.  There are many posters on here who's son's went thru similar and came out stronger on the other side.  Best of luck to him moving forward and please keep us posted on his progress 

Thanks for the input FriarFred.  It's just a tough spot right now for him and for me.   Prior to the injury he absolutely, without question wanted to play college baseball.  Now after dealing with the injury, recovery and results(missed soph season, school transfer, NOT making any of his travel teams of choice) he is understandably discouraged.  I have had the sit down discussion with him, and the results were that he's just not sure if he wants to play beyond high school.  It really comes down to this coming Spring season and how things go, but without his prior passion it's all a mute point.

standballdad posted:

 He even had coaches calling him after his senior HS season asking if he had committed. So there is time!

THAT is very encouraging to hear!!!   Thanks for your input and advice!

Twoboys posted:

Good luck this spring and with a full recovery.  I just want to add that in no way does a 3.7 gpa and a 30+ ACT score exclude Ivy and or Patriot possibilities!  Yale baseball players have an average 31 ACT.  This means some boys are lower!  He is within an acceptable range for sure, but will depend on his athletic ability.  More stud = will go a little lower on academics.  Ivies (and NESCACs too for D3) have to balance their class.  I wanted to correct that in this thread someone does not assume that they are out of the running for high academic D1 and D3 schools, especially since you say 30+ and have no specific number yet.  

I know this isn't going to be a popular position, but good luck getting into an Ivy or Patriot League school with that as a guy who isn’t even sure he can play. Scores at the bottom end of the spectrum are going to require coach support thru admissions, meaning they are a “dude” they want to have. That doesn’t sound like the scenario here. Being honest with chances and realistic are going to serve this player better than pie-in-the-sky dreams, which is why a lot of kids don’t achieve their college athletic dreams, because they are fishing in the wrong pond.

DALEX posted:

CTbballDad posted:

There is absolutely plenty of time, as only P5 have really recruited for 2020 and the summer of rising senior year is the time.  But, I didn't catch why he won't be playing travel ball, as that will hurt him.  Surely, there's a team he can play for, no?

It was just a matter of being discouraged at not being able to perform at 100% for the teams he wanted to play for and not wanting to return to his prior team that would not be playing in the tournaments where he might be seen.  In all honesty, my son't love of playing the game may be coming to an end--this Spring's HS season will no doubt be the deciding time.  If he finds that he loves it again, and he plays well I'm sure he can either find a team that needs one more player or he can find some opportunities as a sub throughout the season.

Per bolded above, I think you've already got it figured out and maybe just need some confirmation. Confirmed .  For now, just let him focus on that and see how it goes.  

GaryMe posted:

Twoboys posted:

Good luck this spring and with a full recovery.  I just want to add that in no way does a 3.7 gpa and a 30+ ACT score exclude Ivy and or Patriot possibilities!  Yale baseball players have an average 31 ACT.  This means some boys are lower!  He is within an acceptable range for sure, but will depend on his athletic ability.  More stud = will go a little lower on academics.  Ivies (and NESCACs too for D3) have to balance their class.  I wanted to correct that in this thread someone does not assume that they are out of the running for high academic D1 and D3 schools, especially since you say 30+ and have no specific number yet.  

I know this isn't going to be a popular position, but good luck getting into an Ivy or Patriot League school with that as a guy who isn’t even sure he can play. Scores at the bottom end of the spectrum are going to require coach support thru admissions, meaning they are a “dude” they want to have. That doesn’t sound like the scenario here. Being honest with chances and realistic are going to serve this player better than pie-in-the-sky dreams, which is why a lot of kids don’t achieve their college athletic dreams, because they are fishing in the wrong pond.

Just so there's no confusion.... I did not put forward the idea of Ivy or Patriot League at anytime. I don't think my son has any interest.  Last year he started to focus on Sports Broadcasting as a career and compiled a list of top schools in the field that are also on the tuition exchange list and are in the Midwest.  This is the list:  

Bradley
Butler
DePauw
Valparaiso
Baker
Lindenwood

I'm confident he will be able to gain acceptance to most or all of them.   Whether or not he can also play baseball for one of them is yet to be answered.

Oh, and if anyone has any baseball connections, insight for the aforementioned schools, I'd be happy for any info!

cabbagedad posted:

Per bolded above, I think you've already got it figured out and maybe just need some confirmation. Confirmed .  For now, just let him focus on that and see how it goes.  

I think, for the most part cabbagedad, you are correct. Truth is, a this point it's all in my son's hands.  I can only encourage and support whatever decision he finally comes to.  Again, my hope is that the Spring HS season goes VERY well and then we can figure out timelines when/if he's ready to commit to pursuing the opportunity to play in college.

"Just so there's no confusion.... I did not put forward the idea of Ivy or Patriot League at anytime."

We like to get carried away here.  You ask a question, you're either 1) A Pro Prospect, 2) P5 Prospect or 3) Ivy League Prospect.

Good luck to your son.  In everything I've ready, I think it's dad's job to make sure he's not discouraged.  The injury has him down, but he's also young and maybe lacks some confidence.  Push him (not point), as he may need that more than anything. 

As a kid, I was an extremely good athlete, but didn't follow through with it, because I was a punk.  I asked my dad many years ago, why he didn't push me, when I saw my son needed a little nudging.  He said I didn't want it, in which I replied I was too young to know otherwise.  Don't let your son's injury be a reason why he may look back with regret.  You've got a big year ahead of for the both of you.  End it with the worse case being failure, and not an attempt to give it anything less than 100%

DALEX posted:

Oh, and if anyone has any baseball connections, insight for the aforementioned schools, I'd be happy for any info!

Ironically, I know someone who is playing at Bradley who signed with them the day before the D1 signing deadline - after they had graduated high school....kid can rake and will be great in that conference.

GaryMe posted:

DALEX posted:

Oh, and if anyone has any baseball connections, insight for the aforementioned schools, I'd be happy for any info!

Ironically, I know someone who is playing at Bradley who signed with them the day before the D1 signing deadline - after they had graduated high school....kid can rake and will be great in that conference.

After they had graduated?!?  Ok, now I need "The REST of the story" LOL

DALEX posted:

GaryMe posted:

Twoboys posted:

Good luck this spring and with a full recovery.  I just want to add that in no way does a 3.7 gpa and a 30+ ACT score exclude Ivy and or Patriot possibilities!  Yale baseball players have an average 31 ACT.  This means some boys are lower!  He is within an acceptable range for sure, but will depend on his athletic ability.  More stud = will go a little lower on academics.  Ivies (and NESCACs too for D3) have to balance their class.  I wanted to correct that in this thread someone does not assume that they are out of the running for high academic D1 and D3 schools, especially since you say 30+ and have no specific number yet.  

I know this isn't going to be a popular position, but good luck getting into an Ivy or Patriot League school with that as a guy who isn’t even sure he can play. Scores at the bottom end of the spectrum are going to require coach support thru admissions, meaning they are a “dude” they want to have. That doesn’t sound like the scenario here. Being honest with chances and realistic are going to serve this player better than pie-in-the-sky dreams, which is why a lot of kids don’t achieve their college athletic dreams, because they are fishing in the wrong pond.

Just so there's no confusion.... I did not put forward the idea of Ivy or Patriot League at anytime. I don't think my son has any interest.  Last year he started to focus on Sports Broadcasting as a career and compiled a list of top schools in the field that are also on the tuition exchange list and are in the Midwest.  This is the list:  

Bradley
Butler
DePauw
Valparaiso
Baker
Lindenwood

I'm confident he will be able to gain acceptance to most or all of them.   Whether or not he can also play baseball for one of them is yet to be answered.

Bradley and Valpo are D1 and both are strong baseball schools.   DePauw is D3, haven't looked up others. 

To be blunt, your son has to "want it", and power through obstacles. All I can see so far is that your son has a nice height. RC's/HC's like that.

   I know of one kid who didn't play much due to arm problems during Sophomore HS, and only made JV during his Junior year. As a rising senior he played on a good summer team(lots of PG), and pitched his ass off. He is going to a highly regarded P5.

 Thing with him, though, is that he really wanted it, and performed at  a high stage, however briefly. He was also 6'5".

DALEX posted:

GaryMe posted:

Twoboys posted:

Good luck this spring and with a full recovery.  I just want to add that in no way does a 3.7 gpa and a 30+ ACT score exclude Ivy and or Patriot possibilities!  Yale baseball players have an average 31 ACT.  This means some boys are lower!  He is within an acceptable range for sure, but will depend on his athletic ability.  More stud = will go a little lower on academics.  Ivies (and NESCACs too for D3) have to balance their class.  I wanted to correct that in this thread someone does not assume that they are out of the running for high academic D1 and D3 schools, especially since you say 30+ and have no specific number yet.  

I know this isn't going to be a popular position, but good luck getting into an Ivy or Patriot League school with that as a guy who isn’t even sure he can play. Scores at the bottom end of the spectrum are going to require coach support thru admissions, meaning they are a “dude” they want to have. That doesn’t sound like the scenario here. Being honest with chances and realistic are going to serve this player better than pie-in-the-sky dreams, which is why a lot of kids don’t achieve their college athletic dreams, because they are fishing in the wrong pond.

Just so there's no confusion.... I did not put forward the idea of Ivy or Patriot League at anytime. I don't think my son has any interest.  Last year he started to focus on Sports Broadcasting as a career and compiled a list of top schools in the field that are also on the tuition exchange list and are in the Midwest.  This is the list:  

Bradley
Butler
DePauw
Valparaiso
Baker
Lindenwood

I'm confident he will be able to gain acceptance to most or all of them.   Whether or not he can also play baseball for one of them is yet to be answered.

Depauw is a great choice for his chosen field. Depauw plays in the NCAC, Coach is in his second or third year. They recruited my son very strongly and really wanted him, However we could not work it out financially, compared to other of his top choices. The coach that recruited my son is at Wabash now. 

They do not start recruiting strongly until the late summer/fall of Rising Senior year. I can tell you the school is great. I know one  young man who graduated from Depauw in the field you son is interested in that is doing very well. 

Good luck

57special posted:

To be blunt, your son has to "want it"

I agree completely 57special, and communicated as much in my original post when I spoke of hoping he finds his passion and love of the game again.  My questions very well may be a mute point depending on how the Spring season goes, so I would concede my questions are to some extent hypothetical.  

BishopLeftiesDad posted:

Depauw is a great choice for his chosen field. Depauw plays in the NCAC, Coach is in his second or third year. They recruited my son very strongly and really wanted him, However we could not work it out financially, compared to other of his top choices. The coach that recruited my son is at Wabash now. 

They do not start recruiting strongly until the late summer/fall of Rising Senior year. I can tell you the school is great. I know one  young man who graduated from Depauw in the field you son is interested in that is doing very well. 

Good luck

REALLY appreciate this reply!!  Depauw is also only about an hour from home!  Good in my eyes, maybe not so much for my son? LOL  If you don't mind me asking, how did your son find his way onto their radar?

DALEX posted:

CTbballDad posted:

There is absolutely plenty of time, as only P5 have really recruited for 2020 and the summer of rising senior year is the time.  But, I didn't catch why he won't be playing travel ball, as that will hurt him.  Surely, there's a team he can play for, no?

It was just a matter of being discouraged at not being able to perform at 100% for the teams he wanted to play for and not wanting to return to his prior team that would not be playing in the tournaments where he might be seen.  In all honesty, my son't love of playing the game may be coming to an end--this Spring's HS season will no doubt be the deciding time.  If he finds that he loves it again, and he plays well I'm sure he can either find a team that needs one more player or he can find some opportunities as a sub throughout the season.

I doubt he has the motivation and desire to survive college ball if his mindset is to give up and not play summer ball. College baseball is not an extra curricular activity. It’s a job on top of the job of succeeding academically. 

Your son would probably be better served making academics the focus and playing club baseball or intramural softball. 

RJM posted:

. It’s a job on top of the job of succeeding academically. 

 

 

Hmmm, well I guess that's one take on it... Thanks for the input RJM.

You have lots of great advice already so will just add that dealing with injuries, setbacks, adversity, tough competition, etc. are all very common at the collegiate level. Helping him understand that overcoming recent injury and baseball setbacks are only going to better prepare him for baseball at the next level.

My son was blessed with a very strong arm but had very little success on the mound during youth baseball and then had a roller coaster of a ride during high school as a pitcher. He was fortunate in that he had other skill sets that kept him on the field while he worked on command. He did not have a non-JUCO offer until fall of his senior year and is now on P5 roster as a frosh. I only share that because if had given up at any point and stopped working to improve, there is no way he is playing d1 baseball right now.

Teenagers, as a general rule, have a tough time connecting the dots from current experiences to future opportunities/success. IMO...it is as simple as brain development. They live almost entirely in the now. Just keep reminding him and providing examples of those who have overcome adversity!

Best of luck to you both!

DALEX posted:

BishopLeftiesDad posted:

Depauw is a great choice for his chosen field. Depauw plays in the NCAC, Coach is in his second or third year. They recruited my son very strongly and really wanted him, However we could not work it out financially, compared to other of his top choices. The coach that recruited my son is at Wabash now. 

They do not start recruiting strongly until the late summer/fall of Rising Senior year. I can tell you the school is great. I know one  young man who graduated from Depauw in the field you son is interested in that is doing very well. 

Good luck

REALLY appreciate this reply!!  Depauw is also only about an hour from home!  Good in my eyes, maybe not so much for my son? LOL  If you don't mind me asking, how did your son find his way onto their radar?

This is back in 2010 mind you. Back then there was the Crossroads series. Coaches would put teams together and go to this showcase. I believe they are now owned by Demarini, now. He was invited to that showcase. Not long after the showcase he started getting contact form many D3's in the area. DePauw was one of them. My son ended up at one of DePauws rivals, Ohio Wesleyan. Son was also concerned with the distance. OWU is only 40 minutes from our house. 

However it turned out to be a blessing. It was far enough away that he could ignore that we existed. Believe me he did. However it was close enough that if he had an emergency or just needed to get home for a break he could. he could also bring teammates home if they needed a break. 

If he is truly interested in Depauw, go to the get reruited link:

https://www.depauwtigers.com/sports/bsb/questionnaire

If they have seen you they will provide a code. They did to my son, so he only needed to fill out the info they did not have. It also had coaches notes. 

I would also have your son reach out to Coach Allen and show interest. 

https://www.depauwtigers.com/s.../coaches/allen_blake

There are worse schools your son could end up at. However for his major there are not many better. They are also usually in the top half of the NCAC, and went to regionals not too long ago. 

However, and I must say this: Go Bishops. 

I’m seeing several 2020s start to waiver about whether or not they want to pursue baseball in college. I think it is harder than they realized, to play for the teams they want to play for. They are solid players but are not getting attention from the schools they would want to attend. I think this is kind of the age when they start seeing the writing on the wall and decide whether or not what they can play is what they want to play.  If his heart isn’t in it, it’s not going to work.

baseballhs posted:

I’m seeing several 2020s start to waiver about whether or not they want to pursue baseball in college. I think it is harder than they realized, to play for the teams they want to play for. They are solid players but are not getting attention from the schools they would want to attend. I think this is kind of the age when they start seeing the writing on the wall and decide whether or not what they can play is what they want to play.  If his heart isn’t in it, it’s not going to work.

This has been posted before in another thread.   College baseball, regardless of level (D1/D2/D3/NAIA/JuCo) is hard.  It's more or less like having two full time jobs.   Student during the day and athlete in the afternoon/evening and weekends.   Both demand a full commitment to be successful.

baseballhs posted:

I’m seeing several 2020s start to waiver about whether or not they want to pursue baseball in college. I think it is harder than they realized, to play for the teams they want to play for. They are solid players but are not getting attention from the schools they would want to attend. I think this is kind of the age when they start seeing the writing on the wall and decide whether or not what they can play is what they want to play.  If his heart isn’t in it, it’s not going to work.

I'm seeing it with quite a few 2019's.  They are choosing college life at the big state school over lower level college baseball.     

I have a 2020 OF as well. We did some unofficial college visits over fall break, and spoke to several coaches. They all said they will not start recruiting 2020 until summer 2019. They also said if you are just an OF and do not pitch, they would expect you to run the 60 sub 7.0. Just some food for thought. Good luck trying to figure everything out. It is definitely a process.

Mom2acendeuce posted:

I have a 2020 OF as well. We did some unofficial college visits over fall break, and spoke to several coaches. They all said they will not start recruiting 2020 until summer 2019. They also said if you are just an OF and do not pitch, they would expect you to run the 60 sub 7.0. Just some food for thought. Good luck trying to figure everything out. It is definitely a process.

You have to have it figured out. Otherwise you waste a lot of time and money. Worse, end up not playing. Where players and parents get fooled is hearing what they want to hear rather than what is actually being said.

The bottom line is if you don’t feel love in the process it’s prbably not happening. Or at the last minute the player becomes an end of the roster, end of the bench selection. At the D3 level end of the bench can be not having a uniform other than playing ten JV games and being cut or quitting after one year.