2021s

If you asked me a couple months ago, I would have unquestionably leaned towards a "sky is falling approach" to 2021s.  But since then, I've seen nothing to substantiate it.  I was so worried that many good players would be left with no offers.  Boy, was I worried for nothing.  We are still seeing 2021s in our area (frankly, quite a few that I never considered college-caliber) committing.  Not every day, as it's slowed down some, but it's still regularly happening.  But the "stature" of the programs is certainly heading downward - generally speaking.  Mostly seeing D2 JUCOs and NAIA commitments at this point.  We're in Omaha - without question the "epicenter" of NE baseball in terms of population/players.  For reference, Kansas City is 3 hours away and Des Moines is 2.

My son's buddy committed to a stronger D2 JUCO program just a couple weeks ago, but we know it involved no money.  My guess is that anything coming in now involves zero athletic monies or very close to it.

So why does all seem fine/normal?  My best guess is that a good portion of it of is too good to be true.  I am predicting what I call "delayed carnage."  I think xmas break of 2021 could be much darker for many than it normally is.  The bubble bursts and cuts and transfers become pervasive.  I'd love to be wrong; I just don't know how the system can hold up the surplus weight for very long.

One piece of good news I'll share.  My 2021 is committed to JUCO where the coach genuinely likes to run small/smaller rosters.  30-35 guys and never above 35.  When my son toured there in July, the coach told us he was reluctantly going to run with 39 due to Covid this season.  But that didn't come to pass.  He's moved 8ish guys (6 to D1 4-years and 2 to D2) on over the past 2 months.  A really great surprise because my son MIGHT actually stand a shot of being on a 35 or less roster this fall.  I'm not counting chickens before they're hatched, but it's been awesome to see the coach moving guys on this fall all things considered.  Again, mostly D1 4-year schools.

Happy for your son Danj!

Commitments still happening. Friend of my son just committed this week to a D1 in TX. Don't know how long he held the offer, but there are still schools looking for talented kids. My son is a 2022, so I don't know when it's too late by division.

Some 2021’s on So-Cal scouts teams are still committing to top D3 schools and still some D1’s. One 2021 committed to UNLV last week.

@chazball not sure if it’s the same kid but one of my son’s classmates also just committed to a P5 D1 in TX.

@chazball posted:

Commitments still happening. Friend of my son just committed this week to a D1 in TX. Don't know how long he held the offer, but there are still schools looking for talented kids. My son is a 2022, so I don't know when it's too late by division.

Anyone that is committing to a D1 in Texas right now is almost certainly getting no baseball $.  That means they are a walk on - and they will be competing with 5 recruiting classes of guys on scholarship. The chances of that working out are slim and none. IMO that’s the worst possible decision a 2021 can make unless they will be content not playing baseball.

In general, I would guess that any 2021 committing NOW to anywhere is not getting any athletic scholarship.

@Francis7 posted:

In general, I would guess that any 2021 committing NOW to anywhere is not getting any athletic scholarship.

But you still get to splash a big announcement on Twitter!!                           #blessed

@adbono posted:

But you still get to splash a big announcement on Twitter!!                           #blessed

Respect my decision.  Oh wait, that is just for transfers.

@Francis7 posted:

How much is left to the school year? At most, five months?

At this point, kids have either signed a NLI or not.

If not, they either have an offer that's yet to be accepted or they have no offers.

For the kids with no offers, are they out of time - given the pandemic situation and where college rosters are now? (Note that this year is not like past years where maybe there was some time...perhaps.)

For the kids with offers and they haven't yet accepted, when is it going to be too late to accept...again, given the pandemic situation now and the college rosters overflowing?

The regular signing period for D1/D2 is in April. November was only the early period.

Bunches of 2021's here in MN committing to JUCO's...primarily in IA but also some in MN. The D2/D3 commitments seem to be slowing. Many D3's to the biggest D3 conference here called the MIAC. The most known schools in the MIAC are Carleton, Macalester, St John's, and St Thomas (after having been kicked out of the MIAC they are moving to D1 for 2021).

Side note that the #8 ranked PBR kid in MN/ND/SD is Josh Kingery, a LHP who has verified 90 in the left wing and has NOT committed anywhere yet. I am guessing that he will be committing somewhere sooner than later...probably D1.

I think some D3's and JUCO kind of look at position players all the way through the spring.  My 2021 is seeing a lot of more activity with D3 and JUCO that we were a bit surprised by.  Maybe they were waiting on budgets or approvals from college administrators. If you go the smaller college route I think it would just be prudent to do lots of research(I know others have mentioned this before) on their financials at this point and not just for athletics. 

if you're a 2021 or have one, you must follow @JRudd_Scout. Huge opportunity and gift here connecting players and coaches with needs and spots to fill.....

https://twitter.com/JRudd_Scou...509664195678211?s=20

I’m happy to help! Come follow along on Twitter as we prepare to turn over a comprehensive list of colleges looking for 2021’s.

https://twitter.com/jrudd_scout?s=21

@Francis7 posted:

In general, I would guess that any 2021 committing NOW to anywhere is not getting any athletic scholarship.

Oh, I’m sure they’ll find athletic money for a pitcher who throws 95+

I would bet that the lefty referenced in this thread earlier that throws 90 will get athletic money.  

My son was offered verbally by a Juco, but they said they didn’t have any athletic money. Is this typical? Should I be worried that the offer isn’t serious if they have no skin in the game? Thank you would appreciate your feedback

I’m not real familiar with JuCos. This is a general answer. Is it they don’t have athletic money available? Or they do but not for your son? If just not for your son he’s probably insurance if recruited players of higher priority, who will get a better shot don’t pan out. If they don’t provide athletic money do they have other money available? You have to understand the big picture to understand your son’s position.

There are 3 categories of JUCOs - just as there are in 4 year NCAA schools: D1, D2 & D3. If fully funded (and many aren’t) D1 JuCos can offer 24 full scholarships which can (and often are) be split into half’s. D2 JuCos also offer scholarships but can only offer books, tuition & fees - roughly 50% of the annual cost. D3 JuCos don’t offer any athletic scholarships. Some, but not all, JuCos have on campus housing. As far as the situation with your son goes, the JuCo in question has either already given away all their scholarships or they are only interested enough to offer a walk on opportunity. Even when schools say they are out of money, most of them hold a scholarship or two back in case a hard throwing pitcher shows up out of nowhere at the last minute. My advice would be to keep looking. A walk-on offer can be accepted at the 11th hour. No need to jump at that.

@adbono posted:

There are 3 categories of JUCOs - just as there are in 4 year NCAA schools: D1, D2 & D3. If fully funded (and many aren’t) D1 JuCos can offer 24 full scholarships which can (and often are) be split into half’s. D2 JuCos also offer scholarships but can only offer books, tuition & fees - roughly 50% of the annual cost. D3 JuCos don’t offer any athletic scholarships. Some, but not all, JuCos have on campus housing. As far as the situation with your son goes, the JuCo in question has either already given away all their scholarships or they are only interested enough to offer a walk on opportunity. Even when schools say they are out of money, most of them hold a scholarship or two back in case a hard throwing pitcher shows up out of nowhere at the last minute. My advice would be to keep looking. A walk-on offer can be accepted at the 11th hour. No need to jump at that.

I would suspect that many JUCO's are holding some scholarship $ back for the rather large amount of D1 drop downs that will be available next year.

@Go44dad posted:

I would suspect that many JUCO's are holding some scholarship $ back for the rather large amount of D1 drop downs that will be available next year.

Yes, they absolutely are.

My 2021 was just accepted at our state's public ivy school with honors and travel abroad.  No baseball but he is pretty excited to try and play club.  2021 was a tough year for HS recruits and rosters are over the top full, but I think things worked out for the best.  I appreciate everyone's encouragement on TEST PREP and grades toward HA D3. It was his goal to have a 4.0UW when he applied to all schools and a high ACT and he did both.  (thank goodness, cause this full online learning has been tough on grades)  Hang in there 2022's, hopefully, we knock out this virus soon and your path is a bit clearer.  Thanks again to those that posted long before me, you have been more than helpful!

Congratulations!  Nice to hear about kids moving forward, whatever the direction.

Congrats!  Great to hear of these success stories and terrific outcomes during such a challenging year.

Congratulations @Hookslide!!

@adbono posted:

There are 3 categories of JUCOs - just as there are in 4 year NCAA schools: D1, D2 & D3. If fully funded (and many aren’t) D1 JuCos can offer 24 full scholarships which can (and often are) be split into half’s. D2 JuCos also offer scholarships but can only offer books, tuition & fees - roughly 50% of the annual cost. D3 JuCos don’t offer any athletic scholarships. Some, but not all, JuCos have on campus housing. As far as the situation with your son goes, the JuCo in question has either already given away all their scholarships or they are only interested enough to offer a walk on opportunity. Even when schools say they are out of money, most of them hold a scholarship or two back in case a hard throwing pitcher shows up out of nowhere at the last minute. My advice would be to keep looking. A walk-on offer can be accepted at the 11th hour. No need to jump at that.

how do the California JUCOs fit in to this system? I don't believe they are in that usual division system.  They're also, mostly, public community colleges, so financial aid isn't usually much of an issue and, at least the ones in the bay area, are mostly commuter schools so i'm not sure there's student housing.

@mattys posted:

how do the California JUCOs fit in to this system? I don't believe they are in that usual division system.  They're also, mostly, public community colleges, so financial aid isn't usually much of an issue and, at least the ones in the bay area, are mostly commuter schools so i'm not sure there's student housing.

As in so many other ways, California is different and has their own system - which I’m not very familiar with. I do know that no California JuCos offer any kind of baseball scholarships.

@mattys posted:

how do the California JUCOs fit in to this system? I don't believe they are in that usual division system.  They're also, mostly, public community colleges, so financial aid isn't usually much of an issue and, at least the ones in the bay area, are mostly commuter schools so i'm not sure there's student housing.

Due to Covid, it looks like the 2021 season will start around March 26.

Check out www.keepplayingbaseball.org for recruiting guidance.

It will be important for you to review their JUCO Pipeline.

For Example In 2020, Butte College had ~17 alumni playing at 4 yr schools.

My Grandson is a 2021 1B/OF from California, who was just name Pre-Season All-America by Rawlings Perfect-Game, and while he has several colleges interested in him he is still waiting for an official Scholarship offer. Schools have told him they need to see what Seniors are returning and how much money their school is allotting this year. Covid-19 really messed up his exposure, they cancelled his Junior season and pushed back his Senior season to April this year. He earned All-American based on the 2 showcases he attended where his testing results were excellent. Stats: 6'3"/210,  Throw from OF: 91mph, Exit Velo: 104mph off Live Pitching, and 60yards: 6.90

Hopefully he'll get an official offer soon.

@Peach49 posted:

My Grandson is a 2021 1B/OF from California, who was just name Pre-Season All-America by Rawlings Perfect-Game, and while he has several colleges interested in him he is still waiting for an official Scholarship offer. Schools have told him they need to see what Seniors are returning and how much money their school is allotting this year. Covid-19 really messed up his exposure, they cancelled his Junior season and pushed back his Senior season to April this year. He earned All-American based on the 2 showcases he attended where his testing results were excellent. Stats: 6'3"/210,  Throw from OF: 91mph, Exit Velo: 104mph off Live Pitching, and 60yards: 6.90

Hopefully he'll get an official offer soon.

I have seen your posts over the past months and I have seen the video of your grandson that you have posted. I’m going to give you my opinion based on my own personal experience and I deal with this stuff a lot. First of all, Preseason All American honors are handed out like donuts. Unfortunately it doesn’t mean much. Four year schools have crowded rosters and (for the most part) have already recruited the 2021s that they are really interested in. There is all the difference in the world in “we want you” & “we are willing to take you.” You don’t want to be in the latter category. IMO your grandson is a JuCo prospect and that’s the path I would recommend. I hope you are pursuing that option.

Thanks for your input.  He's looking at all his options. We just want him to get a good education and enjoy his college experience.

@Peach49 posted:

Thanks for your input.  He's looking at all his options. We just want him to get a good education and enjoy his college experience.

You’re welcome. I can imagine that my comments aren’t what you want to hear but I hope you take them in the spirit I intended. I’m trying to help. I’m a baseball guy and I see HS kids make bad decisions more than they make good ones.

@adbono posted:

I have seen your posts over the past months and I have seen the video of your grandson that you have posted. I’m going to give you my opinion based on my own personal experience and I deal with this stuff a lot. First of all, Preseason All American honors are handed out like donuts. Unfortunately it doesn’t mean much. Four year schools have crowded rosters and (for the most part) have already recruited the 2021s that they are really interested in. There is all the difference in the world in “we want you” & “we are willing to take you.” You don’t want to be in the latter category. IMO your grandson is a JuCo prospect and that’s the path I would recommend. I hope you are pursuing that option.

@Peach49

2021 Roster insights are pending.

Here are some data points:

In 2020, there were 73 California freshman (primary position 1B) that were on college baseball rosters.

*** Colleges might list 1B as Infielders

Here are the states they were located.

Most played in the California JUCO (CCCAA)

Western State Conference had the most freshman 1b

2019 Insights

2018 Insights

Your grandson should check out the Pipeline of the JUCO Program.

Good luck

Covid-19 has crowded the field for 2021's but my Grandson can play multiple positions 1B, OF, 3B, and while he doesn't like to pitch he has thrown up to 91mph at his training center. Hopefully he'll find a college that's a good fit for him.

@Peach49 posted:

Covid-19 has crowded the field for 2021's but my Grandson can play multiple positions 1B, OF, 3B, and while he doesn't like to pitch he has thrown up to 91mph at his training center. Hopefully he'll find a college that's a good fit for him.

Didn’t your grandson commit a few weeks back? Thought I had seen you post something about him committing to a D2 on another thread.

He has not received his official Scholarship offer yet. Coach told him he will definitely be getting an offer, how much depends on funding. He really likes the Coach & it is close to home ,but until he gets that official offer he still talking to other coaches. He has a call with another D2 this week. Hopefully everything will be officially rapped up very soon.

Peach ... Your grandson is very low priority to this coach. If the coach has any money he’s holding it back for preferable options. Chances are he’s going to tell the kid to come on his own dime. Don’t do it. He third string insurance. The goal is to have a legitimate opportunity to get on the field, not on the roster. Rosters change from year to year. Find a place where he’s loved. Not where he’s the last option.

@Peach49 posted:

He has not received his official Scholarship offer yet. Coach told him he will definitely be getting an offer, how much depends on funding. He really likes the Coach & it is close to home ,but until he gets that official offer he still talking to other coaches. He has a call with another D2 this week. Hopefully everything will be officially rapped up very soon.

Peach I have to say I've always admired and appreciated your Grandparental pride and enthusiasm.  I was very close with my Grandfather and even in my 50's there isn't a week that goes by that I don't think about him.  

As for your Grandson, I suspect things will work out if he's open to being flexible.  It's stuck me that's there's been something of a disconnect between his high metrics and his recruitment status.  I'm not sure why, it could 100% be attributable to Corona, or maybe he's just got a lot of raw talent that hasn't fully translated to the field.  Either way, it remains a very tricky time for 2021's and even 2022's.  I suspect that's what the group is trying to express, everyone wants your Grandson to succeed.  He may just have to consider some alternative routes to get to the final goal, given the remarkable and unique challenges of the moment.  Please keep us informed.

I think the scouts at PBR may have landed on the issue that is holding him back.  This makes it all the more important that he goes somewhere that he will play right away so he can keep developing the baseball skills to go with his physical metrics.

“Bay Area World Series 2020 - Taken into full context, the run tool, the arm, the power & bat speed are all plus tools and put him into some pretty exclusive company. Usability of the abilities is the key and he's getting closer to putting it all together.”

I believe the real issue with not getting an official offer yet is that he lost his Junior year to Covid-19 and was only able to go to 2 showcases, that he did very well in. So he's had near zero opportunities for schools to see him. The schools that have seen him are all D2's from California that have been impacted by Covid-19 and had last season cut short and this season cancelled. All these D2's said they will be making scholarship offers soon. I'm sure it will all work out. If not he has 2 JC's calling him a couple of times a week.

@adbono posted:

There are 3 categories of JUCOs - just as there are in 4 year NCAA schools: D1, D2 & D3. If fully funded (and many aren’t) D1 JuCos can offer 24 full scholarships which can (and often are) be split into half’s. D2 JuCos also offer scholarships but can only offer books, tuition & fees - roughly 50% of the annual cost. D3 JuCos don’t offer any athletic scholarships. Some, but not all, JuCos have on campus housing. As far as the situation with your son goes, the JuCo in question has either already given away all their scholarships or they are only interested enough to offer a walk on opportunity. Even when schools say they are out of money, most of them hold a scholarship or two back in case a hard throwing pitcher shows up out of nowhere at the last minute. My advice would be to keep looking. A walk-on offer can be accepted at the 11th hour. No need to jump at that.

The only caveat I would add is "depending on state laws".   For instance, while a D2 JuCo can offer scholarship money in terms of  tuition, fees and books according to NJCAA guidelines, in Virginia, by law JuCo's cannot offer athletic scholarships.

In 2012 my son had an "offer" from Patrick Henry Community College, but in reality it was just an invitation to try out.  Fortunately, he qualified for a Commonwealth Grant that covered 95% of his tuition and he made the team and became a starter his freshman year.

If my Grandson goes the JC route he would attend one of the 2 local JC's that have been recruiting him. He likes both coaches, and in that California JC's, by law, can't offer scholarships thats not an issue. Both of these JC's have said he would be a starter if he went to their school. A JC may be the best spot for him. He'll be sure to get playing time and continue to get Bigger, Stronger & Faster.

@FoxDad posted:

The only caveat I would add is "depending on state laws".   For instance, while a D2 JuCo can offer scholarship money in terms of  tuition, fees and books according to NJCAA guidelines, in Virginia, by law JuCo's cannot offer athletic scholarships.

In 2012 my son had an "offer" from Patrick Henry Community College, but in reality it was just an invitation to try out.  Fortunately, he qualified for a Commonwealth Grant that covered 95% of his tuition and he made the team and became a starter his freshman year.

Players from California participate in the CCCAA, which is a different governing body than

NJCAA.

Below is the 2020 Participation by Division

l

@Peach49 posted:

I believe the real issue with not getting an official offer yet is that he lost his Junior year to Covid-19 and was only able to go to 2 showcases, that he did very well in. So he's had near zero opportunities for schools to see him. The schools that have seen him are all D2's from California that have been impacted by Covid-19 and had last season cut short and this season cancelled. All these D2's said they will be making scholarship offers soon. I'm sure it will all work out. If not he has 2 JC's calling him a couple of times a week.

It’s almost the end of the school year. The issue isn’t why he hasn’t been seen by more colleges. The issue is how do you get it done ASAP before there aren’t any more opportunities. Yes, there are additional roster spots. But being anything after #20 on a roster doesn’t get the player on the field.

I’m at a 6A (highest classification) HS baseball game in the Dallas area right now. The visiting team has 14 2021s that are committed. Make of that what you will.

Are they winning?

@anotherparent posted:

Are they winning?

Yes

@adbono posted:

Yes

5th ranked team in the state

@RJM posted:

It’s almost the end of the school year. The issue isn’t why he hasn’t been seen by more colleges. The issue is how do you get it done ASAP before there aren’t any more opportunities. Yes, there are additional roster spots. But being anything after #20 on a roster doesn’t get the player on the field.

While I agree with 97% of this statement, I always feel comments like this miss one important factor. What a kid does with that roster spot is the most important variable to getting on the field, be it coming in as # 4, 20 or 35. Coaches want to win and if you perform better in the fall and spring coming in as #21 than the #5, you're playing. Absolutely, every recruiting class has the kids that are the apples of the coach's eye in his recruiting and no doubt they have got his attention, but they better keep it. That kid that came in late just might be hungry enough and good enough to steal the cookies right of their plate.

@FalseDawn posted:

While I agree with 97% of this statement, I always feel comments like this miss one important factor. What a kid does with that roster spot is the most important variable to getting on the field, be it coming in as # 4, 20 or 35. Coaches want to win and if you perform better in the fall and spring coming in as #21 than the #5, you're playing. Absolutely, every recruiting class has the kids that are the apples of the coach's eye in his recruiting and no doubt they have got his attention, but they better keep it. That kid that came in late just might be hungry enough and good enough to steal the cookies right of their plate.

In order for a walk on to take playing time away from a scholarship player he has to outperform him by a mile. It hardly ever happens. Add that to your 97%.

That's my missing 3%. Maybe I should have said 98. My point was simply to say that kids need to work they're ass off no matter what spot they have on the roster and take nothing for granted.

@FalseDawn posted:

While I agree with 97% of this statement, I always feel comments like this miss one important factor. What a kid does with that roster spot is the most important variable to getting on the field, be it coming in as # 4, 20 or 35. Coaches want to win and if you perform better in the fall and spring coming in as #21 than the #5, you're playing. Absolutely, every recruiting class has the kids that are the apples of the coach's eye in his recruiting and no doubt they have got his attention, but they better keep it. That kid that came in late just might be hungry enough and good enough to steal the cookies right of their plate.

From having been through the journey as a player and twice as a parent from what I’ve seen and been told it’s not uncommon for a player at the back of the roster not to get a reasonable chance.

A friend’s son played for a mid major. On Sunday of opening weekend the kid hit a game winning pinch hit double against a ranked program. He didn’t see the field again for ten games. By the end of freshman year he was 4-10 with four RBI’s. He was stuck behind a 1B/DH and a 1B/DH/P. Soph year he went 4-10 again. The kid offered to try LF. The coach turned him down.

The other two 1B hit .220 for two years. But they were getting baseball money. They played and played on. The third year they started showing something.

Opening Day Eve of his junior year the kid was told his services were no longer needed. He spent two years as insurance/3rd string 1B. He was the best high school defensive 1B I’ve ever seen. He wasn’t even used as late innings defense.

The kid crushed the ball in BP. Teammates were shocked when he wasn’t rostered. He wasn’t offered baseball money. He was insurance. By the third year he was no longer needed.

This was a kid who was three time all conference at large classification high school. He ran a 6.9 sixty. Measuring exit velocity wasn’t a big thing ten years ago. But, this kid hit the ball as hard as anyone I saw in high school.

@RJM posted:

From having been through the journey as a player and twice as a parent from what I’ve seen and been told it’s not uncommon for a player at the back of the roster not to get a reasonable chance.

A friend’s son played for a mid major. On Sunday of opening weekend the kid hit a game winning pinch hit double against a ranked program. He didn’t see the field again for ten games. By the end of freshman year he was 4-10 with four RBI’s. He was stuck behind a 1B/DH and a 1B/DH/P. Soph year he went 4-10 again. The kid offered to try LF. The coach turned him down.

The other two 1B hit .220 for two years. But they were getting baseball money. They played and played on. The third year they started showing something.

Opening Day Eve of his junior year the kid was told his services were no longer needed. He spent two years as insurance/3rd string 1B. He was the best high school defensive 1B I’ve ever seen. He wasn’t even used as late innings defense.

The kid crushed the ball in BP. Teammates were shocked when he wasn’t rostered. He wasn’t offered baseball money. He was insurance. By the third year he was no longer needed.

This was a kid who was three time all conference at large classification high school. He ran a 6.9 sixty. Measuring exit velocity wasn’t a big thing ten years ago. But, this kid hit the ball as hard as anyone I saw in high school.

Thanks for sharing your insights.

@FalseDawn posted:

That's my missing 3%. Maybe I should have said 98. My point was simply to say that kids need to work they're ass off no matter what spot they have on the roster and take nothing for granted.

You are making a valid point but it only applies at the D3 level when scholarships are not involved.

@RJM posted:

From having been through the journey as a player and twice as a parent from what I’ve seen and been told it’s not uncommon for a player at the back of the roster not to get a reasonable chance.

A friend’s son played for a mid major. On Sunday of opening weekend the kid hit a game winning pinch hit double against a ranked program. He didn’t see the field again for ten games. By the end of freshman year he was 4-10 with four RBI’s. He was stuck behind a 1B/DH and a 1B/DH/P. Soph year he went 4-10 again. The kid offered to try LF. The coach turned him down.

The other two 1B hit .220 for two years. But they were getting baseball money. They played and played on. The third year they started showing something.

Opening Day Eve of his junior year the kid was told his services were no longer needed. He spent two years as insurance/3rd string 1B. He was the best high school defensive 1B I’ve ever seen. He wasn’t even used as late innings defense.

The kid crushed the ball in BP. Teammates were shocked when he wasn’t rostered. He wasn’t offered baseball money. He was insurance. By the third year he was no longer needed.

This was a kid who was three time all conference at large classification high school. He ran a 6.9 sixty. Measuring exit velocity wasn’t a big thing ten years ago. But, this kid hit the ball as hard as anyone I saw in high school.

Have seen the same thing - scholarship players get chance after chance after chance. Non-scholarship players rarely get chances, even if they are clearly better.

Not sure why this is, maybe human nature not to admit you’re not correct 100% of the time in selecting players. Maybe pressure by the administration to show ROI on the scholarship dollars. Hard to know.

Always follow the money.

@DD 2024 posted:

Have seen the same thing - scholarship players get chance after chance after chance. Non-scholarship players rarely get chances, even if they are clearly better.

Not sure why this is, maybe human nature not to admit you’re not correct 100% of the time in selecting players. Maybe pressure by the administration to show ROI on the scholarship dollars. Hard to know.

Always follow the money.

100% on point

@DD 2024 posted:

Have seen the same thing - scholarship players get chance after chance after chance. Non-scholarship players rarely get chances, even if they are clearly better.

Not sure why this is, maybe human nature not to admit you’re not correct 100% of the time in selecting players. Maybe pressure by the administration to show ROI on the scholarship dollars. Hard to know.

Always follow the money.

Not only have I seen this over and over - I lived it. I was the rare D1 walk on that made the roster, played, and earned a scholarship. But it took me two years of working my ass off to do it and my reward was that I had a really good senior year. But I never got as many opportunities as my teammates and I thought I deserved - and it’s for the reasons stated above. I wasn’t recruited and I was never one of “their guys.” Neither were any of the other JuCo transfers who were all used to make “their guys” compete. That’s just how it was and how it still is most places - especially at ranked D1 programs. It also didn’t help my odds of getting on the mound that our #1 & #2 starters both had good big league careers. Another guy pitched a couple years for the Blue Jays and two others pitched in the minor leagues. Of the 8 pitchers that saw mound time 5 signed pro contracts. I was one of the 3 that didn’t.  Even tho my stats were better than theirs that year it didn’t matter. The money had been invested in them and not me. They were also better players, evidenced by the fact they they were all drafted and I wasn’t. That’s why stats aren’t the be all end all of measuring performance. There can be statistical anomalies - and for that matter metrics aren’t either. Posting “impressive” metrics doesn’t mean a player can perform in a game.

@adbono posted:

I’m at a 6A (highest classification) HS baseball game in the Dallas area right now. The visiting team has 14 2021s that are committed. Make of that what you will.

As a follow up to this post, here is the breakdown: 2 D1 (in TX), 1 D2 (OOS), 2 D3 (OOS), 1 NAIA (OOS), 8 JuCo (all TX & OK). All (that played) were solid players but none were spectacular. The 2 D1 commits will not stick at the programs they have chosen IMO. They aren’t near good enough. Interestingly  (and I’m being kind) the coach of this HS team called for at least 10 bunt attempts in the 5 innings I watched. To me, that is putting winning a HS baseball game ahead of playing the game and I was disgusted by it. Which is why I left before the game was over.

@adbono posted:

You are making a valid point but it only applies at the D3 level when scholarships are not involved.

That’s a D1 mid major I was posting about. It occurs at all levels. The kids receiving money receive more opportunity. At a D3 where baseball money isn’t involved the players the coach pushes through admissions receive more opportunity. The coach doesn’t want to lose his clout with admissions.

I saw and heard these stories when I played. My kids saw it where they played. Their travel and high school teammates saw it where they played.

If you heard from someone a coach said everyone gets an equal chance I have a swamp for sale. They say it. They don’t mean it.

@adbono posted:

Not only have I seen this over and over - I lived it. I was the rare D1 walk on that made the roster, played, and earned a scholarship. But it took me two years of working my ass off to do it and my reward was that I had a really good senior year. But I never got as many opportunities as my teammates and I thought I deserved - and it’s for the reasons stated above. I wasn’t recruited and I was never one of “their guys.” Neither were any of the other JuCo transfers who were all used to make “their guys” compete. That’s just how it was and how it still is most places - especially at ranked D1 programs. It also didn’t help my odds of getting on the mound that our #1 & #2 starters both had good big league careers. Another guy pitched a couple years for the Blue Jays and two others pitched in the minor leagues. Of the 8 pitchers that saw mound time 5 signed pro contracts. I was one of the 3 that didn’t.  Even tho my stats were better than theirs that year it didn’t matter. The money had been invested in them and not me. They were also better players, evidenced by the fact they they were all drafted and I wasn’t. That’s why stats aren’t the be all end all of measuring performance. There can be statistical anomalies - and for that matter metrics aren’t either. Posting “impressive” metrics doesn’t mean a player can perform in a game.

Compelling story.

I've often wondered how college and pro teams make decisions about who to draft, who to promote, who to pull up, who to keep down. The top players are easy, but it's gotta be splitting hairs in deciding about players beyond those.

And based on what you're saying, it seems like there's a marketing aspect to it - which is unfortunate, but not surprising.

I saw a YouTube video about Jeremy Nowak who was released from his Orioles A+ Minor  League team after having a great year and making the All-star team. He was told they had to make room for a Big Bonus player who played his same position. Hard to take but that what happens in baseball.

Several years ago a friend’s son was hitting .290 with 20 homers in AAA while playing 2b, ss and 3b. When an injury occurred on the MLB team a .240 hitter lacking power who only played 2B was called up. As the kid said, “There were a million ($) reasons why the other guy was called up. They called up a first round pick. The friend’s son was a 24th rounder.

"Sponsors" "who are they"?

Business school grads have someone paving their future with the Employer.

High drafted players have "agents". Pro scouts have a contact in the front office to influence the GM. Minor league Managers file game reports to the Front office.

College coaches are influenced by the Alumni, HS coaches, showcase organizers and recently "travel ball" coaches.

Talented players will "let their bat, glove and arm" do the talking. They have self confidence. They are constantly aware of their environment and become students of the game of baseball and life. They develop the 6th Tool.

Bob

@DD 2024 posted:

Have seen the same thing - scholarship players get chance after chance after chance. Non-scholarship players rarely get chances, even if they are clearly better.

Not sure why this is, maybe human nature not to admit you’re not correct 100% of the time in selecting players. Maybe pressure by the administration to show ROI on the scholarship dollars. Hard to know.

Always follow the money.

It's no different in the pros. Yankees gave Cito Culver $1 million. He couldn't hit and was given like 8 years in the minors to prove he couldn't hit. Any NDFA with his numbers would have been cut after a year. It's all about saving face. When they give you money, you will get extended opportunities to hopefully justify the money.

There also seems to be a difference between Athletic money and academic money. Players with Athletic money always seem to be given more chances then academic money players. When a Coach makes a financial investment in a player they are going to give that player every opportunity to succeed. Not so much for academic money players.

@Peach49 posted:

There also seems to be a difference between Athletic money and academic money. Players with Athletic money always seem to be given more chances then academic money players. When a Coach makes a financial investment in a player they are going to give that player every opportunity to succeed. Not so much for academic money players.

Receiving athletic money is a way for a player to know if he is going where he’s loved or where they’re interested. At D3’s love is when the coach is asking the player to apply early admission and endorsing the player through admissions.

So, it's April 21st 2021. If you are an uncommitted 2021 as of this date, is it too late and you are not playing college baseball? Or, can it still happen in May?

I just looked up the NCAA recruiting rules and while the rules specify a start date for recruiting they do not list a stop date, which I assume is when the coming semester starts. My Grandson just accepted a baseball scholarship and officially committed earlier this month. The process seemed like it was going to take forever then in just a matter of a week he had 4 schools telling him they really wanted him. He signed with a Top D2 school that is close to home who’s coaching staff he really likes.

Congrats!

There is no stop or end date until school starts back up in the Fall. We were at a camp at UNC-Chapel Hill in late July and they had people on visits that weekend for that year's class which started in 2 weeks.... Always recruiting.....

@RJM posted:

Receiving athletic money is a way for a player to know if he is going where he’s loved or where they’re interested. At D3’s love is when the coach is asking the player to apply early admission and endorsing the player through admissions.

One of the simplest yet most helpful insights for a first-time parent like me... thank you, @RJM

My Grandson was told his athletic scholarship was among the highest they have given to any position player, and with no returning players at his position the coach said he will be given every opportunity to earn a starting position.

Somebody search up Micky Modiak...cliff notes

- he was the first pick of the draft

- he has zero great seasons in the minors

- he was terrible pick by a terrible GM (Klintak) who should be released by every team in organized baseball

- he is the Phillies starting centerfielder at this time but wont be for long, the kid is now a man and he sucks.

I hope he didn't waste his bonus money.

Moniak is still very young at just 22 years old. I wouldn’t give up on him off just yet. He probably would have been better served playing a full season in AAA before being thrust into the majors.

Walk-ons vary by school.  The #1 on my kid's team was a walk on and he is headed to an SEC team next year.  One of our top bullpen arms is a walk on and pretty sure our best hitter who is also headed to an SEC team was a walk on initially.  The coaches don't seem to give a damn about anything except who will help the team win.

Ask any parent who has had a kid play at Arkansas about walk-ons vs scholarship players.  If you are on a big piece you better contribute big time.   Arkansas and Oregon State have both used recruited walk ons extensively.     

It goes without saying that even with an athletic scholarship you still have to perform. The difference is that with a scholarship you will be given more of an opportunity to prove yourself at the college level. As a walk on, you will be given far fewer changes, if you don’t show real potential in the first few days you won’t be there long enough to get more changes.

@Peach49 posted:

Moniak is still very young at just 22 years old. I wouldn’t give up on him off just yet. He probably would have been better served playing a full season in AAA before being thrust into the majors.

very young are juan soto and Acuna jr...the Mick just blows. He has less value then an L screen with holes in it.

@d-mac posted:

Walk-ons vary by school.  The #1 on my kid's team was a walk on and he is headed to an SEC team next year.  One of our top bullpen arms is a walk on and pretty sure our best hitter who is also headed to an SEC team was a walk on initially.  The coaches don't seem to give a damn about anything except who will help the team win.

Ask any parent who has had a kid play at Arkansas about walk-ons vs scholarship players.  If you are on a big piece you better contribute big time.   Arkansas and Oregon State have both used recruited walk ons extensively.     

Unfortunately I just haven't found that to be true. Both within our program and outside of our program. Unless the player in question is one of "his guys" it's going to take an all conference type year to get on the field regularly

I'm usually a very tough critic and I don't tend to buy into excuses very easily. But when I ask current players and my own about ______ and they tell me he's better than starters I have to believe there's something else going on that isn't talent related.

Even at the D3 level, scholarships are involved.  Not every kid gets a ton of academic money.   Not every kid gets hand walked through early decision.  

Actions speak louder than words.  Money is an action that often speaks loudest, telling the tale of where priorities are...

@Francis7 posted:

So, it's April 21st 2021. If you are an uncommitted 2021 as of this date, is it too late and you are not playing college baseball? Or, can it still happen in May?

Playing college Baseball?  Or being on a college Baseball team?

There are at least a 100 JUCO’s, D3’s and NAIA’s that would be happy to fill up one more dorm room for full tuition money up through July.

and yes, there are exceptions that are legit college players who are still unsigned.  Especially the top pitchers who are coming off injury or sitting at that 89-90 mph threshold trying to break through to D1 level and still considering the JUCO route.

I've recently heard of two NJ 2021s that are considering the Sarlo option and coming back for a 5th year of High School ball - because they didn't get any college offers.

@Francis7 posted:

I've recently heard of two NJ 2021s that are considering the Sarlo option and coming back for a 5th year of High School ball - because they didn't get any college offers.

Normally that seems pretty dumb for most kids, but with the extreme logjam in College Baseball right now, that could make sense especially for kids that are emotionally immature and are at risk of falling behind academically in their freshman year of college.

High School kids in 2020 and 2021 missed out on a ton of social and emotional development due to the pandemic, and many missed out on in person school for 12-18 months etc... it will have a bigger effect on that generation than most are willing to reasonably look at, at this time.

@Peach49 posted:

Moniak is still very young at just 22 years old. I wouldn’t give up on him off just yet. He probably would have been better served playing a full season in AAA before being thrust into the majors.

Strongly agree.  Kid has elite speed and defense in CF.  Hit .273 in Spring Training.  Made just 8 errors in his entire Minor League career.  Hit .252 in AA ball in 2019, then missed an entire year of development last year.  Will he be a superstar?  Tough to predict that, but he’s hardly a bust, yet

Moniak is too young combined with the circumstances of the past year to give up on him. He probably isn’t ready for MLB. If the Phillies believe they’re a contender they need a better short term solution. If they’re also rans one option is to let him struggle and learn in the majors if his head can take it.

Well I guess we shall see how this ages, I am pretty comfortable based .259 in AA being his top season and watching him look totally over matched at every opportunity and the fact he is all but dismissed in every minor league scouting report and because the only reason he is in the MLB is due the Phillies have the worst centerfield production in the last 100 years.... yep I feel pretty confident.

Who else thinks Old school is John Middleton?

@2022NYC posted:

Who else thinks Old school is John Middleton?

that is awesome! Oh man a guy can dream! True story though is he was a client of mine....as in I did Some work For his company and was only a light year away from meeting with him

@2022NYC posted:

Who else thinks Old school is John Middleton?

Okay, that’s pretty funny. Those of us that have a sense of humor appreciate posts like that.

@RJM posted:

From having been through the journey as a player and twice as a parent from what I’ve seen and been told it’s not uncommon for a player at the back of the roster not to get a reasonable chance.

A friend’s son played for a mid major. On Sunday of opening weekend the kid hit a game winning pinch hit double against a ranked program. He didn’t see the field again for ten games. By the end of freshman year he was 4-10 with four RBI’s. He was stuck behind a 1B/DH and a 1B/DH/P. Soph year he went 4-10 again. The kid offered to try LF. The coach turned him down.

The other two 1B hit .220 for two years. But they were getting baseball money. They played and played on. The third year they started showing something.

Opening Day Eve of his junior year the kid was told his services were no longer needed. He spent two years as insurance/3rd string 1B. He was the best high school defensive 1B I’ve ever seen. He wasn’t even used as late innings defense.

The kid crushed the ball in BP. Teammates were shocked when he wasn’t rostered. He wasn’t offered baseball money. He was insurance. By the third year he was no longer needed.

This was a kid who was three time all conference at large classification high school. He ran a 6.9 sixty. Measuring exit velocity wasn’t a big thing ten years ago. But, this kid hit the ball as hard as anyone I saw in high school.

Do you think this is just an example of a kid not picking the right school from the get go?  If he'd have gone not to a lower level but maybe a different school on the same level where he was "loved" do you think this situation would have been different?

This almost makes it sound like that once you get baseball money you are locked in as one of their "guys" and a starting position. 

I can tell you a few dozen stories about players who got Baseball money and never played, losing their spots to players who didn’t get Baseball money.

Its all anecdotal evidence here, for the most part.  It’s true though, that in general the bigger the prospect, the bigger the money spent, the longer the leash a kid gets.

I’ve seen 10 players from our area alone in the last 6 years who were big time prospects, getting Baseball money, signed to SEC or Big Ten teams and told to leave the program after a year.

Ultimately, the Coach needs to win to keep his job.

My Grandson, who just signed for a fairly large scholarship was told by the Coach that while he will be given every opportunity to earn a starting job he is still expected to earn his spot.

@3and2Fastball posted:

I can tell you a few dozen stories about players who got Baseball money and never played, losing their spots to players who didn’t get Baseball money.

Its all anecdotal evidence here, for the most part.  It’s true though, that in general the bigger the prospect, the bigger the money spent, the longer the leash a kid gets.

I’ve seen 10 players from our area alone in the last 6 years who were big time prospects, getting Baseball money, signed to SEC or Big Ten teams and told to leave the program after a year.

Ultimately, the Coach needs to win to keep his job.

Agree with all of that. People (outside of baseball) just don’t understand how good you have to be to get on the field at any SEC school, or the top programs in other P5 conferences. They assume that if they were at all recruited (money or not) that they belong. Many find out 90 days later that they were never in the plans in any way whatsoever. That’s why the more experienced people on this board preach “do your homework.” But it seems to fall on deaf ears initially. Only after the fact do people understand - and then it’s sometimes too late. You better really understand what you are getting into.

@$tinky posted:

Do you think this is just an example of a kid not picking the right school from the get go?  If he'd have gone not to a lower level but maybe a different school on the same level where he was "loved" do you think this situation would have been different?

This almost makes it sound like that once you get baseball money you are locked in as one of their "guys" and a starting position.

All three first basemen were new his first year. One was a transfer. So there was no way to look at the roster and think the school is the wrong choice. All I ever saw in high school was a kid who crushed the ball and picked everything. Maybe in college it was a negative he wasn’t elevating the ball.

Only being a first baseman can be limiting. Some schools don’t recruit first basemen. They move someone there.

Theres no doubt if a player gets money they get preference. It doesn’t mean they succeed. But they often have to fail before the no money guy gets his shot.

The kid hit .400 in limited at bats. There wasn’t much more he could do without an more opportunity. He’s the last guy I would ever consider to be an attitude problem.

@Peach49 posted:

My Grandson, who just signed for a fairly large scholarship was told by the Coach that while he will be given every opportunity to earn a starting job he is still expected to earn his spot.

Stock statement.

I’m sure my Grandson is not the first player the coach has said “You’ve got to earn your spot” to, but based on the substantial amount of baseball money they are giving him we are confident he will be given ever opportunity to prove himself. But he definitely is going to have to prove himself if he expects to last in the program.

@Peach49 posted:

I’m sure my Grandson is not the first player the coach has said “You’ve got to earn your spot” to, but based on the substantial amount of baseball money they are giving him we are confident he will be given ever opportunity to prove himself.

A coach needs to keep his job. If a kid wanders out of basket weaving class onto the field and is better, he's competing for that spot.

Everyone always says (and they're right) "go where you're loved," but I think the smartest thing to do is go where you're loved and then erase it from your mind that you're loved.  "Go where you're loved, but always work like you're not."

you may be loved but if you don't produce you'll be on the bench...you may still be loved, probably not as much though...

It is true that those that are given a lot of scholarship money will probably get more chances than the normal player.  My son has struck out a ton this season (D2 Freshman) but has hit well when making contact (hitting just under .300 with 5 HR and 20ish rbi, 3 triples and 7 doubles I think appx 110 at bats..I wonder if another player (walk on, smaller scholarship) would be given such tolerance...in D2 though at the end of the season the scholarship can be modified so there's always that posibility

@DanJ posted:

Everyone always says (and they're right) "go where you're loved," but I think the smartest thing to do is go where you're loved and then erase it from your mind that you're loved.  "Go where you're loved, but always work like you're not."

Go where you’re loved only means the player gets a quality opportunity to prove he belongs. A lot of players don’t understand a NLI is only the opening of the door. Now the player has to prove he belongs and should be on the field. About half of players fail at proving they belong.

Sometimes it’s just plain failure. I know of (met him) a Gatorade Player of the Year who went to a top ranked program and hit .117. He didn’t last long in the lineup. He transferred to another P5, made some level of all conference and was drafted. Sometimes it’s a less recruited player not getting a full opportunity to prove himself.

I'd actually disagree with @RJM but only due to the verbiage used.  I think most players understand NLI only opens the door and that they have to prove themselves for things to pan out.  What I think most players DON'T understand is how hard it'll actually be to prove themselves.  They don't understand the odds.  They don't understand that pre-college success is not a guarantee of post-high school success.  They don't understand that even in a classroom full of A students, someone has to be ranked dead last.  God love the youth and their naivety, but 99% of them sincerely believe that proving themselves is inevitable barring an injury.  My 2021 son is one of them.  I fully expect that to change here very soon.

There is a powerhouse JUCO 15 minutes away from here who typically carries 50+ on their roster (plus a JV team).  I know some of the kids there and many who will be there soon and I can tell you EVERY one of them sincerely believes that he will be one of the ones who will prove himself.  But the school bell is ringing.  It's education time.

A handful of players on a roster will have “can’t miss” talent and play. A few at the back end of the roster will be up against it to stick on the roster. For most of the players it will be about what’s between their ears not talent.

It will be about being physically and mentally ready when opportunity knocks. Some kids will put their head down when they fail. It will have them with one foot out the door.

  I know this has become a common theme in many of my posts - but I keep seeing it everywhere I go and I keep reading posts from others that indicate little to no comprehension of the current situation regarding recruiting, so......                I saw a crosstown rival HS game last night. One team has a stud ‘21 catcher that was an early commit to U of Houston. This week UofH pulled their offer (don’t know details on NLI) to give the scholarship money to a returning senior. We have heard this before but Stud catchers are rare and if it happened to this kid it could happen to anyone. Along the same lines, this morning I talked to the RC at the JuCo I help with and he was telling about how many kids are coming back for their 3rd year of JuCo because they can’t find a 4 year school that needs any more players. This is basic economics - the supply of good players far exceeds the demand for their services. Kids in the transfer portal have a rude awakening coming their way. Point being, if you are a ‘21, ‘22, or ‘23 and you want to play college baseball, you better have an open mind, get realistic, and think outside the box. A lot of people that stay on the “conventional path” will come away with nothing. JMO but signs are everywhere.

@adbono posted:

  I know this has become a common theme in many of my posts - but I keep seeing it everywhere I go and I keep reading posts from others that indicate little to no comprehension of the current situation regarding recruiting, so......                I saw a crosstown rival HS game last night. One team has a stud ‘21 catcher that was an early commit to U of Houston. This week UofH pulled their offer (don’t know details on NLI) to give the scholarship money to a returning senior. We have heard this before but Stud catchers are rare and if it happened to this kid it could happen to anyone. Along the same lines, this morning I talked to the RC at the JuCo I help with and he was telling about how many kids are coming back for their 3rd year of JuCo because they can’t find a 4 year school that needs any more players. This is basic economics - the supply of good players far exceeds the demand for their services. Kids in the transfer portal have a rude awakening coming their way. Point being, if you are a ‘21, ‘22, or ‘23 and you want to play college baseball, you better have an open mind, get realistic, and think outside the box. A lot of people that stay on the “conventional path” will come away with nothing. JMO but signs are everywhere.

Great points.  I hope parents will read that and really pay attention and stop thinking their beautiful snowflake is the “exception that proves the rule”

We are in a very strange crossroads right now of helicopter parenting meeting the harsh realities of a pandemic’s effect on College Baseball, and it ain’t pretty.

More so than ever, go to a school where you have a reasonable chance to actually get on the field.  And even more importantly: go to a school where you can get a great education, because you might not get on the field!!!

I thought after the NLI it was harder vs before the NLI...???

Pulling a NLI makes them still obligated for the funding, doesn't it? Not ideal, but you're somewhat protected in that regard but you still have to make the team or go to a team where you can play vs sit the bench or get cut.....  sucks for the kid and family.....

@adbono posted:

  I know this has become a common theme in many of my posts - but I keep seeing it everywhere I go and I keep reading posts from others that indicate little to no comprehension of the current situation regarding recruiting, so......                I saw a crosstown rival HS game last night. One team has a stud ‘21 catcher that was an early commit to U of Houston. This week UofH pulled their offer (don’t know details on NLI) to give the scholarship money to a returning senior. We have heard this before but Stud catchers are rare and if it happened to this kid it could happen to anyone. Along the same lines, this morning I talked to the RC at the JuCo I help with and he was telling about how many kids are coming back for their 3rd year of JuCo because they can’t find a 4 year school that needs any more players. This is basic economics - the supply of good players far exceeds the demand for their services. Kids in the transfer portal have a rude awakening coming their way. Point being, if you are a ‘21, ‘22, or ‘23 and you want to play college baseball, you better have an open mind, get realistic, and think outside the box. A lot of people that stay on the “conventional path” will come away with nothing. JMO but signs are everywhere.

I thought once the NLI was signed it was "done" ?

Also, as a the parent of a 2022, this sucks.  This sucks so hard.

@LousyLefty posted:

I thought once the NLI was signed it was "done" ?

Also, as a the parent of a 2022, this sucks.  This sucks so hard.

Schools renege on NLIs all the time - but even more since Covid and subsequent NCAA rulings. A contract is only good if both sides want it to continue. If a school wants out they almost always find a way. And yes, this does suck for all involved. But it’s not a news flash - and the ripple effect is playing out as many predicted it would. So make use of the information and change your game plan accordingly. That’s what I did.

An NLI guarantees that the school will carry forward their portion of the agreement for 4 years at Power 5 schools in terms of the scholarship agreement, and 1 year at non Power 5 schools.

There is no guarantee that a kid will be on the Baseball team.  Coaches will routinely go to a player and say “we no longer have a spot on the roster for you, we don’t think you’ll ever play here, you should transfer.”  99.99999% of D1 players are going to transfer, they want to play Baseball.

Contractually, a kid could say “no thanks.  I’ll just keep my 25% athletic scholarship and 50% academic scholarship you gave me, and just be a student here and not play Baseball.” It just almost never happens.

@LousyLefty posted:

I thought once the NLI was signed it was "done" ?

Also, as a the parent of a 2022, this sucks.  This sucks so hard.

You’ve got it easy,  compared to many grad years.  It’s tougher on the 2021’s and 2020’s.  By the time a 2022 gets to a 4 year, the logjam will dissipate at least a little.

Try being a parent of a 2018. All that work and many of them lost half their college careers!

@adbono posted:

  I know this has become a common theme in many of my posts - but I keep seeing it everywhere I go and I keep reading posts from others that indicate little to no comprehension of the current situation regarding recruiting, so......                I saw a crosstown rival HS game last night. One team has a stud ‘21 catcher that was an early commit to U of Houston. This week UofH pulled their offer (don’t know details on NLI) to give the scholarship money to a returning senior. We have heard this before but Stud catchers are rare and if it happened to this kid it could happen to anyone. Along the same lines, this morning I talked to the RC at the JuCo I help with and he was telling about how many kids are coming back for their 3rd year of JuCo because they can’t find a 4 year school that needs any more players. This is basic economics - the supply of good players far exceeds the demand for their services. Kids in the transfer portal have a rude awakening coming their way. Point being, if you are a ‘21, ‘22, or ‘23 and you want to play college baseball, you better have an open mind, get realistic, and think outside the box. A lot of people that stay on the “conventional path” will come away with nothing. JMO but signs are everywhere.

supply of players has outpaced demand for years, now it is just compounded by several levels. IMO it is shit show but until supply side economics change the schools hold all the cards and will continue to take advantage of the players. this problem will take years to fix if it ever is fixed

Maybe install the Freshman teams. In my 1st year at Michigan State, 125 out for the Freshman team, 4 years later only 5 played on the MSU team in the College WS.

Our team [25 players] included 3 Football QB, 2 future MLB players, one Hockey player and 2 Korean War Vets. The majority of the team played in strong Summer College Leagues with Pro players on each team. This game teaches a player to learn, study and make adjustments.

"True Story"

Bob

@old_school posted:

supply of players has outpaced demand for years, now it is just compounded by several levels. IMO it is shit show but until supply side economics change the schools hold all the cards and will continue to take advantage of the players. this problem will take years to fix if it ever is fixed

What *seems* clear to me is that the talent pool is simply going to migrate a level down.  Meaning, there's going to be a lot of really good ballplayers at D2, D3 and Juco level for next few years.  Personally, my son was a borderline HA D1/D3 player and he made a firm decision early last spring when it was clear that there wouldn't be much, if any, in person scouting that it was better to just be a big fish in the D3 pond.  A year later, he's much more of a D1 candidate metrics wise, but he's happy and landed in a great school.  I know of at least 5 other players from our school or section who fit this same description.  

@Consultant posted:

Maybe install the Freshman teams. In my 1st year at Michigan State, 125 out for the Freshman team, 4 years later only 5 played on the MSU team in the College WS.

Our team [25 players] included 3 Football QB, 2 future MLB players, one Hockey player and 2 Korean War Vets. The majority of the team played in strong Summer College Leagues with Pro players on each team. This game teaches a player to learn, study and make adjustments.

"True Story"

Bob

Operating Cost would increase, based on EADA proportionally $$$ would need to be allocated to women's sports.

Michigan State 2019 Operating Expenses

10 Year Baseball Budget

@Wechson posted:

What *seems* clear to me is that the talent pool is simply going to migrate a level down.  Meaning, there's going to be a lot of really good ballplayers at D2, D3 and Juco level for next few years.  Personally, my son was a borderline HA D1/D3 player and he made a firm decision early last spring when it was clear that there wouldn't be much, if any, in person scouting that it was better to just be a big fish in the D3 pond.  A year later, he's much more of a D1 candidate metrics wise, but he's happy and landed in a great school.  I know of at least 5 other players from our school or section who fit this same description.  

You made a smart decision and, by doing so, gave your son a chance to have a good experience playing baseball in college. Seems to me that others should follow your lead instead of continuing to force the square peg into the round hole.

@Wechson posted:

What *seems* clear to me is that the talent pool is simply going to migrate a level down.  Meaning, there's going to be a lot of really good ballplayers at D2, D3 and Juco level for next few years.  Personally, my son was a borderline HA D1/D3 player and he made a firm decision early last spring when it was clear that there wouldn't be much, if any, in person scouting that it was better to just be a big fish in the D3 pond.  A year later, he's much more of a D1 candidate metrics wise, but he's happy and landed in a great school.  I know of at least 5 other players from our school or section who fit this same description.  

I agree but there are already 40 plus kids on most D3 rosters and they won’t get any better treatment. There are just way more talented players then jobs available

@adbono posted:

You made a smart decision and, by doing so, gave your son a chance to have a good experience playing baseball in college. Seems to me that others should follow your lead instead of continuing to force the square peg into the round hole.

Thank you @adbono, I certainly had help and sage counsel along the way from you and many others on this forum! Was fortunate my son was level headed about everything and adaptable to a fluid and really unique situation.  That's certainly life, and would recommend to those parents and players going through this now to simply be flexible and open to possibilities that may deviate from where you started in the process.

Ah yes, we must spend equal money....even if you need to beg them to get the same numbers.

The whole thing really does call into question what college baseball is for.  Maybe club baseball will get bigger?  I mean, what do kids actually want to do?  Especially those going to D3?  Play more baseball.  If there were more organized options at large D1 schools, maybe more would choose that.

The point that Bob made about the number of Freshmen still on the team 4 years later was right on target and a good reason to select a school you’d be happy with without Being on the baseball team. An injury cut my Football and Track career short in college, and while I missed my sports I was happy that I got a good education, graduated from college and went on to have a successful life. Find a school that fits your skill level where you’ll have a chance to succeed and major in a subject where you can actually get a job.