Skip to main content

Evening all,

 
Looking for some input on a pathway for our son from those who have been there. 
 
He’s a 2022 primary C, playing in a top 10 7A school . Won’t see V this year, if for no other reason than 2020 C is a P5 commit with many accolades (and he’s the real deal). So son will be JV and just get tons of reps.  
 
He played nearly nonstop for 30 months up until August, and then shut down save for hitting till Nov 1. So he didn’t play fall ball at all (first time in years he missed it)
 
Son finally has started really getting his coordination working with his rapid growth and skill development. So he hasn’t been on anyone’s radar for the past 2 seasons, but if this trajectory continues, that could change. 
 
He & I are working on mapping out his 2020 calendar year for optimum development, and want to ask those who have been there for advice.
 
The current thinking is for him to play summerball with the high school team in June, maybe pickup as possible for July. If he’s feeling good and the metrics are there, he may do a HA showcase in late July/Aug. He can then play fall ball and hit Jupiter. 
 
Summerball with HS team won’t provide much visibility, but will provide reps and rest during the summer, ensuring (ideally) optimum health in the fall.  He can then go hard into his junior year spring and rising senior summer (when he will then play with a true travel team again). 
 
For those who have been there (not a dude at Fr-Jr year, but has the potential), is this the right map? Are there other factors to consider? Any other ideas that we may tack on here? And thanks in advance. 
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Every kid's map ends up being slightly different. I have a 2017, 19, and 22, and none of their pathways are gonna be the same. Full disclosure: My experience is with D3 kids.

17/19 were HA kids. Both did truly national searches and both were avidly recruited by teams from each coast.  We did two showcases each summer before their Jr. years, one show case each in fall of jr. year (when November wasn't a dead period), and two more showcases the following summer (same showcases as during the summer before.). Avoided camps for 17 but went to several for 19.  17 got lucky at a headfirst when he made a clever, spontaneous move on the basepaths that several coaches saw and liked. That, plus his speed (6.7 60) and glove opened several doors.  Slap hitter: didn't hurt him, really, but also didn't get him on more coaches' radars. His experience just proved to me that unless your kid flat out mashes, he's gonna look like a LOT of other kids with similar abilities which, frankly, I think is what you'll find at the academic showcases.

19 needed the camps because he didn't showcase consistently well.  Did great in a showcase fall of jr. year but coaches were looking at 2018's and just said they'd follow him.  Did not do as well at showcases before Sr. year. Realizing this, we did a camp circuit in October of sr. year at schools where his academic profile fit and coaches had shown some interest.  The camp circuit was successful and he came home with several offers.  I had thought, before this, that camps were a waste of time, but our experience with them has been pretty good.  You need to be discerning about what camps/schools your kid really fits at.  One fact for my 17 and 19: Coaches saw them more than once.  I've heard of some kids at D3 HA level get picked after one event, but that wasn't our experience.

22, well, he's a different cat.  He's a pitcher, which makes his experience very different from his outfielder brothers. He's not the student his brothers are, either. We're gonna cut down on showcases, and do only one or two next summer and the summer following, targeting west coast schools. We will also do camps at two or three of his top choices if he's not seen and offered as a result of the showcases. We will NOT go to a camp if a coach has seen him at a showcase and has been underwhelmed.  However, a lot of the mystery should disappear once his velo is at a consistent level. I hope that will narrow down his search. My wallet REALLY hopes that's true.

Your experience may be entirely different.  What I would do, and this is advice I'd give over and over again, is put together a plan like you have and STICK to it. The other thing I would do is find someone who knows what they're talking about to evaluate your son during the next year. You don't want to be fishing in the neighborhood pond if you have the gear for Lake Superior, and vice versa.

It's a long road, but a fun one if you can temper your expectations and let your kid rise to his natural level.   Just my 2 cents.  Good luck!

My two cents...

I think SmokemInside has provided a lot of information that will be helpful once you get started.  But as I see it, you really need a place to get started.   Also, you provided no information with regard to academics, which I'm afraid is part of going to college. 

A good place to get started is at a local baseball academy or a local college camp to see how things are run and also to get talent feedback.   This should be a minimal investment with a great financial return in the form of where to start your recruiting journey.   Before you do all the things that need to be done, you need to see where your son is in the talent hierarchy.   If this is not clearly defined it can become a waste of your time and money.   My oldest son's path was very different and included exposure through regional and national tournaments that started at 14U.   We were able to figure out where he fit in that talent pool fairly quickly through feedback from his coaches and a local pitching coach.   These folks were instrumental resources in our recruiting journey.  This was only a starting point.   The hard work came later in terms of meeting both his athletic and academic requirements.   We made mistakes along the way.  Most people do.   As smoke said, have a plan and stick to it. 

Last edited by fenwaysouth

As usual, Smoke and Fenway are spot-on with their advice. The only thing I would add is don't close any doors, burn any bridges, or eliminate any levels of play at this stage. The coaching/recruiting community is relatively small and your son will likely have many twists, turns, and bumps on the way to finding a college home. Unless he's a truly elite player (and there's a good chance you'd know that by now), or will be, there is a lot more to the decision than baseball. Focus on academics, hit the gym hard, work on skills development, EAT, play at the highest level possible, and showcase when there are measurables to showcase. I like "have a plan and STICK to it" and I would add that the plan should be flexible in the event of unforeseen circumstances i.e. injury, academic issues, girls, cars, and the myriad of other things that could influence timeline and development. Best of luck!

Thanks all for the feedback thus far. I really appreciate it. As noted, there's some info I should have provided to help fine-tune the advice.

Academic-wise, we think he's a good candidate so far for some HA programs. He's a 4.0 unweighted so far through 10th grade, is taking all gifted classes as well as 2 AP classes this year. He'll likely end up with a B or two before the end of his high school career assuming his focus remains as it is now (16 yo boy, no explanation needed there). He took both a quick practice SAT and ACT this fall, found that the SAT is more his speed, and we're awaiting results of the real PSAT he took in Oct.  The current plan is to work with an SAT prep course through the summer and have him take his first SAT in August 2020, giving him a baseline for his junior year.

He played for the past 2 years with a large nationally known program, but hasn't been on their top 3 squads.  He took the fall off to rest and refocus on building size and skill. We definitely have some people (in that organization and outside it) who can help provide perspective for him, and he decided he wants to attend PG's national showcase at the end of this month down in Ft. Meyers. Partially to get some playing time in before HS starts up, but also to really see where he stacks up now.

As for ponds to swim in, he is very interested in engineering/math, and has his eye on several of the D1 P5 schools for their academic offerings there. But thus far, his abilities haven't been in line with their recruiting classes. The showcase later this month should help him get some clarity there.

And that's probably the focused part of the question. As I said, he's a later bloomer. 6'2 and 173, having gained 50 lbs and 7 inches in less than 2 years, and he's still growing. Everything is slowly starting to sync in terms of strength, coordination, and ability. His catching coach (part of the national program) told me 2 weeks ago that he doesn't even recognize the kid he first met 2 years ago. 

So with that knowledge, we wondered if the rising junior summer is one that is critical in terms of exposure? Or is Jupiter in junior year more important? Or rising senior summer? I guess when is the right time to focus a "peak" at, giving him the best opportunity and exposure in line with his development?

Thanks!

If he is thinking P5 or high D1 then junior summer is huge.  They are always looking but the numbers get lower as you head into fall junior.  Not saying he won't find anything but a specific player, C, has the lower number of opportunities.  They don't normally bring in more than one C a year and most of the time every other year do they bring in more than the stud.  You need to get on the radar as early as you can.  I don't think you can afford to miss the summer before Junior year.  Not a do or die unless he is bound to be P5.  Other levels do not have as rigid a timeframe.  The problem with catchers is that they have a great ability to be recruited if they are ready early and meet all the checkmarks.  If not, the scouts at lower levels are watching to see if they develop or not.  I have seen many catchers sign early and then not develop as expected and get the conversation that they may never have a place for them.  My 2019 son has had at least 6 catcher friends who committed to P5's that ended up not going at all or did not make it past this fall. 

"So with that knowledge, we wondered if the rising junior summer is one that is critical in terms of exposure? Or is Jupiter in junior year more important? Or rising senior summer? I guess when is the right time to focus a "peak" at, giving him the best opportunity and exposure in line with his development?"

Sounds like you have him in a good place with a good plan.  I'll just add two cents.  Schools look for talent and projection.  But, those players and parents in the process often make the mistake of giving too much weight to the projection side.  As you witnessed with the stud HS starting catcher, schools want to see the talent present now that can potentially help them win upon arrival.  I would say projection is afforded more to P's than position players, but still, they want to see a kid that has the tools and can get the job done now.  My point is that he isn't likely to get full attention until he is a bit closer to being more fully developed.  Sounds like he is on a more typical maturation/growth curve and will benefit from waiting with the hard exposure push but it also sounds like you have a support staff that can keep an eye on his development and let you know if that changes.

I always like to throw this in...  in all the excitement and planning, don't lose sight of the importance of your son having a clear identity and your relationship with him being very full without baseball.  It will end some day.  Could be sudden.  Could be gradual.  Who will he be without it?  What will your relationship be without it?

Best!

Last edited by cabbagedad
Senna posted:

As for ponds to swim in, he is very interested in engineering/math, and has his eye on several of the D1 P5 schools for their academic offerings there. But thus far, his abilities haven't been in line with their recruiting classes. The showcase later this month should help him get some clarity there.

Senna, I would urge you to spend some time researching past posts on STEM majors and baseball players.  I've been told some coaches shy away from players in these majors.  Part of our research (I have a 2022 LHP who is also academically strong and interested in engineering) is to look at past rosters to see what the majors for upperclassmen are.  There is a school with "Tech" in the name from your home state and yet almost every player is a business administration major.  Which is my oldest son's major, it's a great major.  Just not the Aeronautical Engineering that Lefty is looking for....

Clearly, I struggle with tech as I made this entire post a quote.  But I'm sure you get my drift.  When I have a little more time I will search back for some exceptional threads on players who want to become engineers.

Last edited by LousyLefty

Lots of good advice above.

What I want to add is sometimes less playing and more time spent getting bigger/faster/stronger and skill development can have a big impact on what level your son can achieve.  Also rest and a good nutrition program can go a long way for him.  I didn't read any of this in your post, or on the advice posted for you.

If your kid is "that kid" who can keep a journal of what he eats, how many calories, how much he sleeps, his workouts, games and how he feels, that would be a plus.  It would also make him very special, because very few kids are that disciplined.  (Same with most adults)

So, based on your updated feedback I'd suggest a sit down with your son to discuss his academic plans over the next 5+ years.   If he is a HA kid looking at engineering/math that could change the plan quite a bit...trust me on this.   The HSBBWeb website is littered with this discussion topic many times over.  I'd suggest doing some additional research so you have that in your back pocket.  Bottom line is the recruiting and college experience is different for STEM folks.   You and your son need to be aware of this.   The recruiting timetable can also be very different with a couple exceptions.   You need to familiarize yourself with that.

By all means keep doing what you are doing, as any recruiting experience you have will only help you later.   Remember I mentioned "we made mistakes along the way" in my earlier post.    Bingo...enter baseball and engineering major.   This was a big one in a couple different ways.  First, it extended our recruiting timeline.  Second, we didn't understand that engineering is a dirty word with most D1 coaches.  Third, finding a fit with D1 baseball & engineering would be a monumental effort.  Lastly, engineering by itself is a difficult and time consuming major.   When you throw college baseball on top of that engineering becomes more challenging, and college fit becomes really, really important.

As always, JMO.

A few things don't seem to be in line with the direction you seem to be taking:

1. Playing locally and possibly attending a HA showcase next summer, plus stating "not a dude at Fr-Jr year", tells me that you don't see him as a P5 candidate. It tells me you are considering a path more in line with high academic (Ivy, Patriot) or D3.

2. Based on #1, how do you see him playing in Jupiter next fall?

Most teams attending Jupiter are the "A" teams from the various organizations. They primarily consist of players who are seniors or are high-level juniors; most are already committed. The uncommitted kids are either pitchers looking to show off newly gained pitching velocities or are underclassmen from the bigger clubs looking to get some playing time in front of coaches they are already in contact with. Of course this is a generalization but by and large it is a fair assessment. The majority of scouts that attend are of the MLB variety and college coaches wanting to make sure their already committed recruit still warrants an NLI the following month.

So if you are looking for HA schools then yes you are on track. Except for Jupiter. Not saying you shouldn't pursue it but make sure you have team who will provide some playing time!

Attending the PG National Main is not a bad idea if you think he is ready; it will certainly give you a better idea where he stands among his peers and should provide a better idea for his path in the summer.

It seems you’re projecting and hoping for D1. It’s possible he could become a D1 prospect. But the right travel teams to get players to D1 usually recruit D1 prospects. The reality is he won’t be starting in high school and isn’t playing on a top tier travel team in his program. I get it he’s in a large school program. But if the bat was there he would be a candidate to start somewhere then move to catcher as a junior. 

Fenway is a great asset for advice for college baseball and engineering. For a kid with engineering aspirations if your son wants to attend a major university and can’t play ball at that level there’s club ball. There’s nothing wrong with playing D3 ball. Parents I’ve talked with in the past said their kid’s HA D3 coaches didn’t get upset if they missed practice (sometimes games) due to academics, Any kid who isn’t a peacock strutting pro prospect stud should be thinking academics over baseball. Think forty year plan over four year plan. Find the best academic situation combined with a quality baseball experience regardless of level. 

A friend of mine at a ranked program was convinced to switch from engineering to Phys Ed. Fortunately, it worked out for him. He’s now in his state’s athletic Hall of Fame as a baseball player, baseball coach and basketball coach. 

A few thoughts. You mention hitting some high academic camps in the same sentence as Jupiter. Those are really two different worlds for the most part. The high academic schools  aren't heading down there and the reason being that almost all of those players are better than the level of baseball they are playing at their schools. On the same topic, how is your son getting on a Jupiter team as a junior when the teams there are the best in the country made up of mostly senior draft prospects and high level D1 commits? It is unlikely. 

Now if you wanted to take the high academic route that is great but I'd save the camp money until he has a true sense of where his SAT scores stand compared to their typical admitted students. You can do all the camps you want but if his SAT is only a 1300 and they're looking for 1400+ it's a bit of a waste. Plus most high academic schools are waiting until the end of the summer heading into senior year to do the bulk of their recruiting.

As for taking a light summer to come back ready and fully healthy for fall that doesn't make a ton of sense either - especially if recruitment is the name of the game. College coaches have an entire uninterrupted summer away from their teams to recruit. Everybody plays summer. When September hits these guys are back on campus looking to make cuts and work with their own guys. Recruiting is secondary considering they had 3 full months to identify recruits.  Fall is much less important than summer. 

PABaseball posted:

A few thoughts. You mention hitting some high academic camps in the same sentence as Jupiter. Those are really two different worlds for the most part. The high academic schools  aren't heading down there and the reason being that almost all of those players are better than the level of baseball they are playing at their schools. On the same topic, how is your son getting on a Jupiter team as a junior when the teams there are the best in the country made up of mostly senior draft prospects and high level D1 commits? It is unlikely. 

Now if you wanted to take the high academic route that is great but I'd save the camp money until he has a true sense of where his SAT scores stand compared to their typical admitted students. You can do all the camps you want but if his SAT is only a 1300 and they're looking for 1400+ it's a bit of a waste. Plus most high academic schools are waiting until the end of the summer heading into senior year to do the bulk of their recruiting.

As for taking a light summer to come back ready and fully healthy for fall that doesn't make a ton of sense either - especially if recruitment is the name of the game. College coaches have an entire uninterrupted summer away from their teams to recruit. Everybody plays summer. When September hits these guys are back on campus looking to make cuts and work with their own guys. Recruiting is secondary considering they had 3 full months to identify recruits.  Fall is much less important than summer. 

A couple of comments...

1. HA D1's most certainly attend Jupiter.

2. Don't discount a 1300 SAT score; baseball skills trump SAT scores.

That being said, DO know what your target school is looking for and DON'T wait until the summer before your senior year; the earlier you can be seen and be possibly offered, the better chance you have gaining admissions support. For example, an Ivy can work with a lower SAT score if you are the first player they commit; they can make it up with the remaining recruits--their scores can offset the lower score.

I'm not sure how many HA schools there are at Jupiter unless you're considering schools like Mich, UNC, and Vandy towards that. About 80% of the field in Jupiter would be committed to begin with. Sure you may see one or two high academics there but to say that HAs attend Jupiter like it would be a good place for a HA kid to be seen isn't good advice. I have a hard time believing Bucknell and Tufts are going to be down in Jupiter where 40% of the field is made up of draftable guys.  The talent pool doesn't match the level of recruiting for the most part. 

There were HA D1's there this past fall to include at least one Ivy school who committed a 2021 after seeing him at the event. I'm not saying they "discovered" him there, but they certainly didn't cross him off their recruiting list after coming to see him play. As I stated earlier, if you can guarantee playing time, you have an opportunity to be seen.

As far as a "talent pool" I think you look at the various rosters you would find the kids that did play this past fall weren't just D1 commits; there were D2, D3, and Juco commits there as well. Don't mistake talent with level of NCAA play; they don't always match. Plenty of those D1 (50%?) commits will be playing at different levels (D3, Juco) following their freshman season!

Additionally, there were quite a few Ivy and Patriot league commits that attended. Also plenty of uncommitted kids attended and had the opportunity to play and be seen--by somebody, not just HA D1's.

But as I stated in my first reply to the OP, Jupiter is a great opportunity but doesn't line up with his current recruiting plan. I was just trying to set his expectations given his statement "not a dude at Fr-Jr year, but has the potential." I also wanted to make it clear that if he has an opportunity to play in Jupiter (team and guaranteed playing time) then he should go!

Tons more info, thanks all. A bit more clarity from me:

  • I've gone through (and have bookmarked) some of the threads on STEM/Engineering interests. But he hasn't read them yet, and we haven't discussed the implications. They are tremendously helpful, and will guide our talks
  • I was actually going through the well-known Tech in my area's roster, and noticed the BA degrees were plentiful. One path that son has looked at goes through a D3 that has a dual degree program w/ said school. 
  • In our chats, he cares more about the level of competition than he does the name of the school. So all levels are open in his mind, if it's the right school. No matter the classification

 

The overall feeling i'm getting from the amazing responses is that the path is, if not exactly correct, at least trending in the right direction. I think that the biggest decision will be what to do this summer, based on the input. And that decision will be heavily weighted on how he stacks up at the showcase this winter as well as during the HS season. He has a few options available for him n the summer, but we're able to wait until later in the spring to make that decision. But it definitely sounds like that if he's progressing as he (and I, of course) hopes, then he'll need to get onto a summer team for at least July. 

Thanks again!

Yeah...  If, ultimately, he is set on engineering, that will really simplify the baseball search as there are certainly a limited number of schools where it is feasible to play baseball and pursue that major.  One or two of the threads you mention even go so far as to list those schools across divisions.  While it may not be 100% complete, it is probably pretty close and a very good guide.  There are also multiple regular contributing members here who's sons went that route or strongly considered it (including some on this thread), so do come back with any more specific questions that pertain to the combination of college baseball and an engineering major.

... he cares more about the level of competition than he does the name of the school.

This is the wrong approach. Unless he’s a legitimate potential pro prospect he should be thinking academics first. Then, what baseball program fits.

A lot of players considered potential pro prospects get to D1 ball to find out they’re not pro prospects. A lot of D1 players receive playing time and they’re not pro prospects. 

When your son is forty (hard for kids to imagine) is the job he has provided by his education going to important? Or will stating he played D1 matter? It’s gets a couple of wows at parties from baseball fans. But it doesn’t mean anything. At that point in life the impression lasts as long as the wow. 

Add Reply

×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×