Skip to main content

@adbono posted:

You are certainly free to disagree with @d-mac, but he is right. Unless a relationship is involved, the more desirable summer collegiate leagues want to see proven production from JuCo players from their JuCo season. Until then JuCo players are considered unproven - regardless of who may have also recruited them.

Yes, I agree that the summer collegiate leagues, especially the more desirable ones, will want to see proven production from the juco season before adding them to the roster. What I was trying to get across, and maybe I still won't at this point, is that 4-year college coaches don't completely ignore juco freshman. It's absolutely impossible when they're playing on the same field and at the same time as the juco sophomores (unless of course only sophomores are on the field playing). I imagine they may be scouting out a specific sophomore and should only have eyes for sophomores, but I've heard too many times about another player being noticed. Freshman may be unavailable, but if I saw a freshman with some legit tools and potential...pretty sure I'd make note of it.

@Momball11 posted:

Yes, I agree that the summer collegiate leagues, especially the more desirable ones, will want to see proven production from the juco season before adding them to the roster. What I was trying to get across, and maybe I still won't at this point, is that 4-year college coaches don't completely ignore juco freshman. It's absolutely impossible when they're playing on the same field and at the same time as the juco sophomores (unless of course only sophomores are on the field playing). I imagine they may be scouting out a specific sophomore and should only have eyes for sophomores, but I've heard too many times about another player being noticed. Freshman may be unavailable, but if I saw a freshman with some legit tools and potential...pretty sure I'd make note of it.

@momball11 you are correct. it will depend on the tools (player) and the needs of the target school.



Here is McLennan 2023 class.

Note, we've been cleaning up the grad classes for the juco rosters.  Their data is not clean.



McLennan_2024_Player_attrition_Outgoing_Player

Attachments

Images (1)
  • McLennan_2024_Player_attrition_Outgoing_Player
@Momball11 posted:

So for the most part my son's school has been a good fit and most things they said are as we were told.

One thing we asked was if they assisted with summer league placement. The answer was a definite, yes, absolutely. My son has a particular league that he wants to try and get into. That league suggested players have their coaches contact teams in the league before October 1st. So he went to his coaches with the contact information for those teams before October 1st. His coaches responded that he would need to "earn it". His fall season has ended and he was consistently on the "travel" squad, had his post season coach-meeting and was told they like what they see and expect to contribute in the spring. Now from the sounds of it, many of the summer league teams he was hoping to play for have already locked up their rosters.

It would have been nice to have been told, "we'll help you with getting on a summer league, but at our convenience and discretion"

We now know...what to expect in terms of their assistance with eventually finding a spot at a 4-year program because we will assume it will be similar to the way they "assist" with summer league placement.

I mean if your son tells them I want to play in the Cape they don't just snap their fingers and make it happen. For the more prestigious leagues anyone will have to earn it. Coach isn't going to place him in a league where he doesn't belong - it would destroy his credibility. So yes, it is at their discretion, they are the ones who coordinate it.

Many coaches have relationships with teams. The programs mine are part of may have sent 5 to the Cape every year but they typically had 3 slots for one team and 2 for another. They usually have a pretty good idea of where the returning players will be for the upcoming summer. The freshmen are more likely to fill the voids based on their fall. If they really do well in the spring they're more likely to backfill dropouts in the higher profile leagues

@PABaseball posted:

I mean if your son tells them I want to play in the Cape they don't just snap their fingers and make it happen. For the more prestigious leagues anyone will have to earn it. Coach isn't going to place him in a league where he doesn't belong - it would destroy his credibility. So yes, it is at their discretion, they are the ones who coordinate it.

Many coaches have relationships with teams. The programs mine are part of may have sent 5 to the Cape every year but they typically had 3 slots for one team and 2 for another. They usually have a pretty good idea of where the returning players will be for the upcoming summer. The freshmen are more likely to fill the voids based on their fall. If they really do well in the spring they're more likely to backfill dropouts in the higher profile leagues

Definitely agree with you about a coach's discretion and needing to protect their credibility. I think the coaches initially responded this way because son asked them at a time when they were probably too busy. Fall season was still under way.  They have since spoken with him and said they'd absolutely help him out and to just send them a list of who to contact. Son isn't trying to go Cape. It's a league he's observed quite a bit and feels is at the appropriate level where he'd get a good balance of development and playing time.

@adbono posted:

You are certainly free to disagree with @d-mac, but he is right. Unless a relationship is involved, the more desirable summer collegiate leagues want to see proven production from JuCo players from their JuCo season. Until then JuCo players are considered unproven - regardless of who may have also recruited them.

@Momball11 I don't know your situation, but I don't think summer ball is in scope pre-spring for a juco freshman unless they were a draft prospect, high profile player or have an existing relationship with a summer team coach. His results on the field or projection coupled his work ethic will define his future path.

My son had an amazing experience in both juco and D1, but IMO recruiting coaches present what "could happen" not what "will happen" unless it's in writing. Recruiting, better know as sales is the transfer of the sellers excitement to the buyer - regardless of product, typically not everything heard in a sales pitch is going to feel the same way after the deal is closed.

Good luck this season!

Last edited by JucoDad
@Dadof3 posted:

When talking with a prospective coach/school, what does a recruit ask?  What summer leagues are you associated with?  How many kids on the team get placed on a summer team?  How does the summer team work?

It all depends on the program. It should be discussed during recruiting.

The highest ranked players might end up on the cape, top ranked draft prospects may get a chance to try out for USA Baseball and many do take the summers off.  Most coaches should have the discussion during recruiting and use it as a tool to get the player to their program and once again it's all relevant to the players skill. It's especially important for redshirt freshman to get out and play.  And again, it does depend on coaching  relationships with certain summer leagues.

I think that Momball now understands the process. They live in an area with an excellent summer league and her son wants to be close to home and for all of you that have players who go out of state, I am sure everyone gets that. She never mentioned anything about the Cape, so not sure why that was brought up.

The process also is obviously different for Juco vs D1, D2 players.

Here in Florida many of the Juco guys join travel teams to be seen by college coaches.

Last edited by TPM
@Dadof3 posted:

When talking with a prospective coach/school, what does a recruit ask?  What summer leagues are you associated with?  How many kids on the team get placed on a summer team?  How does the summer team work?

I had never even heard of collegiate summer ball before my son applied to college, but fortunately he had.  He asked each coach (these were D3) what their players did in the summer.  Answers ranged from "many play summer ball, here are the leagues where I send them" to "many do internships, if you want to play close to home you can figure it out yourself."

There are so many different levels of summer ball that if your son is serious about it, you should do bit of research before going in.  For example, some summer leagues charge fees and don't provide housing; others charge no fees and do provide housing and food.  The latter are the ones that coaches need to arrange.

The thing about collegiate summer leagues is that you won’t know what is best for YOUR KID until his spring season is over. It could be that he played so much in the spring that he needs the summer to rest and recover. That was the case with my son - and I never anticipated that being  a possibility. To have your bases covered it’s best to have something lined up now in case it’s the preferred path in 6 months. It’s also best if arrangements can be made now w/o any financial commitments. What you really want is an option - and most coaches aren’t going to be any help with that. My advice would be to arrange something yourself and then decide later if it makes sense to follow thru with it. A phone call, text, or email to the league director would be a place to start. The director will know which teams have full rosters and which teams don’t. That’s what I did and it worked out fine.

I've said it in previous threads on the topic of summer ball, but have your sons wait as long as possible to sign their contract for summer ball. Basically what @adbono said.

So much can change between the fall and May. For example let's say you're a kid doesn't have a good year and is told to find a new home. You don't want to play in a league that coaches/recruiters don't recruit from. For example the Hampton's league. Nice place, but difficult to get to. Coaches probably can't see many players that it makes it worth it to travel there.


Last year my soph son didn't play in the fall because he was rehabbing from an injury, he didn't get assigned (and didn't want to be) assigned anywhere. Had a good start of season, transitioned to Friday starter, and was either going to play in the NECBL or CCBL (I'm sure would have been a temp contract then to the the NECBL). Got hurt, had TJ.

This season he's hoping to be back by the middle of conference play, and is assigned to a NECBL team for the summer. Who knows, he may not face batters until the summer.

Also seems like summer ball is different now than it was 3,5,7,10, etc years ago. With the portal the way it is, coaches don't want their players poached over the summer, and kids don't want to play 50+ games after playing a full college season. Your son has to do what's right for them, while not pissing off their college coach....

Last edited by nycdad
@TPM posted:

Don't be worried about signing a contract and then not being able to go due to some issue. There's always a player waiting in the wings.

Sure, but 1) They may not let you out of the contract. And 2) Some leagues cost money that you won't get back.....

So worry about signing a contract unless neither is important to you and your son.

Other than being offered a spot in the CCBL, MLB collegiate league, or potentially pissing off your college HC, not a lot of good reasons to commit/sign in the fall. JMO.

Last edited by nycdad
@nycdad posted:

Sure, but 1) They may not let you out of the contract. And 2) Some leagues cost money that you won't get back.....

So worry about signing a contract unless neither is important to you and your son.

Other than being offered a spot in the CCBL, MLB collegiate league, or potentially pissing off your college HC, not a lot of good reasons to commit/sign in the fall. JMO.

Depends on how your HC handles agreements with the summer league organization.

Always a good idea to ask those questions. But sometimes circumstances arrive in which player is unable to go.

My recollection is that there is informal placement based on the previous year's or (in the case of freshman) summer's performance through a series of phone calls between coaches; the actual paperwork starts arriving around March.  That's when they need to start organizing host families, etc.  You'll see roster announcements starting then as well.

@RHP_Parent posted:

My recollection is that there is informal placement based on the previous year's or (in the case of freshman) summer's performance through a series of phone calls between coaches; the actual paperwork starts arriving around March.  That's when they need to start organizing host families, etc.  You'll see roster announcements starting then as well.

You are probably correct.  Also to note many programs have standing roster spots to fill each year on different teams in same league.

As I mentioned. It comes down to relationships. So for example, if your son throws too many innings as a freshman  the coach would have the ability send another player in his place.

  @TPM is spot on about how relationships play into placing players in collegiate summer leagues. But those relationships are much more likely to exist between summer leagues/teams and 4 year school coaches than with JuCo coaches. @JucoDad is spot on regarding the posture of JuCo coaches when talking to their players about summer placements. They are much more likely to talk about what is possible than they are to actually do something. They aren’t going to advocate for an unproven player.
  It’s almost like the people that have been there and done that give really good advice. Crazy how that works!

@adbono posted:

The thing about collegiate summer leagues is that you won’t know what is best for YOUR KID until his spring season is over. It could be that he played so much in the spring that he needs the summer to rest and recover. That was the case with my son - and I never anticipated that being  a possibility. To have your bases covered it’s best to have something lined up now in case it’s the preferred path in 6 months. It’s also best if arrangements can be made now w/o any financial commitments. What you really want is an option - and most coaches aren’t going to be any help with that. My advice would be to arrange something yourself and then decide later if it makes sense to follow thru with it. A phone call, text, or email to the league director would be a place to start. The director will know which teams have full rosters and which teams don’t. That’s what I did and it worked out fine.

I was going to add that the majority of my son's JUCO teammates did not play Summer ball.   They had a full Fall along with brutal Fall workouts and a season that went to the very end of postseason play.  They were all toast.

@d-mac posted:

I was going to add that the majority of my son's JUCO teammates did not play Summer ball.   They had a full Fall along with brutal Fall workouts and a season that went to the very end of postseason play.  They were all toast.

I think that's the standard in any program, especially when it goes to the end of the post season.

Add Reply

Post
.
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×