60 meter speed

There is quite a difference in distance between 60 meters and the 60 yards that baseball players are timed at. I think 60 meters is about 17 feet farther. Or approximately three more strides which is the equivilant of around .6 seconds. At least a half second!

So the baseball player who runs 60 yds in 6.7 would run the 60 meters in around 7.2/7.3.

Bo Jackson ran perhaps the fastest 60 yd time ever recorded by a baseball player... 6.1 something. He was one of the fastest track athletes too.

Can't speak for everyone, but in our case we use laser timing. All we do is try to make sure they don't cheat and record the time off the display. Generally they are slightly faster than stopwatch times, but the human element doesn't come into play.

BTW, a 6.7 or 6.8 60 in baseball is simply above average. The fastest guys will run under 6.4. We see a few guys each year who run a 6.4 or even less. A 6.9 is graded average MLB speed!

It's not a showcase thing, it's a baseball thing!

Thanks PG. Your explaination helps a lot. I actually thought ballplayers were timed in the 60m also and didn't realize the timing was 60 yards.

Showcases attract players who are good at showcases... and I imagine more than a few players train for the showcase events. Some heavy, slow HR hitters are probably embarrassed to run 60s in front of a crowd. Therefore I'd suggest that average showcase times are fairly fast compared with the universe of all HS players.

Baseball 60s don't use starting blocks. The fastest runners aren't facing ideal competition as they would in an elite track meet.

A meter is 39.37 inches.

Years ago, the 60 YARD dash was track event in some places. I believe the world record was around 5.9 seconds.

Reference:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE1D8...3AA35751C0A961948260

Didn't Prince Fielder run a 7.1 at the PG showcase? I think so..what's he- 260lbs?

I've scanned the results of many showcase 60s to determine the ideal build for the event. Very short and very tall players aren't often sub-7 seconds.

I was surprised that the fastest runners have plenty of meat on them. I'd guess the fastest body is around 5-9 to 6-1 and about 160 to 185 pounds, which is not thin for that age group.

1 inch=2.54 centimeter(cm)
1 foot=12 inches=2,54x12=30.48cm
1 yard=3 feet=3x30.48=91.44 cm=0.9144 meter

60 yard=60x0.9144=54.86 meter

Actually running 60 yard in 7 seconds is kind of slow. That would mean you could run 100 meter over 12.76 seconds (barring you are not losing speed after 60 yard) I guess it's hard to run fast when you wear the baseball uniforms and baseball cleats.

My personal 100 meter record is 11.68' second at 11th grade, I am pretty slow compare to one of my track teammate. He got the High school 100 meter dash record at 10.56 ' seconds.

I think one thing to be considered is that 60yds the players speed is still increasing. A 6.6 60yds figures to 10 yards every 1.1 seconds. This means the same player would run a 4.4 40 yard dash and I know very few guys who run 6.6 60's can do that. My son has run 6.6 but he can't run a 4.4 40. So you can't just multply it out and say a 100yd time would just be a multiple like that. Now if my son ran the 60 in his track shoes he might run a 6.4-6.5.

I was working with my son to try to improve his 60 time. It wasn't consistent with his home to first times. He was running home to first typically from 4.1 to 4.4, which are fairly good times for a RHH. His official 60 times varied from 7.2 to 7.4. These are in a different category than the home to first times (kind of average high school times). He seems faster than that in normal play and we thought there was room for improvement.

At home, when he ran a few back-to-back, he was running mostly around 7.0. He got very consistent at this, so I decided to see how the time broke down in stages. I found he consistently took about 3 seconds to do the first 20 yards. I found that after that, he consistently ran about 10 yards per second, no matter how I divided the 60 up. So, we knew to get his time down, most of the improvement had to come in the start. I really didn't spot his problem, but a college coach did at his tryout. It was a problem in the crossover at the beginning (he stepped back with the lead foot as a plant foot instead of driving off it "in place" on the crossover step).

Which brings up another thing in this rambling post - comparing this 60 yard to "track" times, besides the aforementioned cleats - the baseball 60 times that we have run have been on a baseball field on the turf and start with a crossover step, like running bases. I think these would all slow down any runner when compared to track times on a track with track shoes and starting head on to the running direction from a block.

We have run 60 yard dashes on both grass and on the track at my college, and a 6.5 guy on the track (with a crossover step in baseball turfs) ran a 6.7 on the grass in cleats.

quote:

(barring you are not losing speed after 60 yard)

The 100 is an endurance event in the sense that speed peaks around 50-60 yards. The fastest 100 runners have the ability to lose less speed in the last portion of the sprint.

Keep in mind that a super 60 yd time does not mean the player is a good baserunner

I would much rather spend time on teaching a player how to get a a good lead, how to read the pitcher and how to run the bases rather than wasting time trying to improve the 60 yard time.

Keep in mind that many of the top base stealers in the bigs are not great speedsters but simply great base runners and know how to read the pitcher so as to get the best jump.

Baseball players are not track stars ---they are base runners

quote:

The 100 is an endurance event in the sense that speed peaks around 50-60 yards. The fastest 100 runners have the ability to lose less speed in the final half of the sprint.

Thats Correct, Except the greatest Athlete of all time.

Secreteriat would run each quarter of a mile faster then the next all the way to the end.
Thats why you see such a gap between him and the other horses.
After Secreteriat Died they did an autopsy.
and they found what they suspected, his Heart was twice the size of a normal Horse.
EH

But could Secretariat steal second?

quote:

After Secreteriat Died they did an autopsy.
and they found what they suspected, his Heart was twice the size of a normal Horse.

That's from his final 15 years at stud

Yes, with the 1st baseman on his back.
And carry the team on a victory lap.LOL

I agree with TR on the fact that the best baseball runner's are not necessarily the fastest 60yarder.
EH

IMO to time a baseball player in a straight 60 time makes absolutely no sence. If you really want to time a more accurate speed for a baseball player time him from home to 2nd. That would give you a better read on the players baseball speed. The 60 time tells you nothing about the player.

I honestly agree with, RYNO. There is no time in baseball that a player runs 60 yards. It has become so standard in showcases that everyone does it. Theres a big difference between game speed and 60 yard dash speed.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Keep in mind that a super 60 yd time does not mean the player is a good baserunner

I would much rather spend time on teaching a player how to get a a good lead, how to read the pitcher and how to run the bases rather than wasting time trying to improve the 60 yard time.

Keep in mind that many of the top base stealers in the bigs are not great speedsters but simply great base runners and know how to read the pitcher so as to get the best jump.

Baseball players are not track stars ---they are base runners

Great post!

I agree with you. Take a big lead is very important.
Although my son is not the fastest guy in the team,
he can steal 2nd base easy everytime. I credit this to the huge lead he took. He usually takes a lead about 12 feet and diving back to 1st at will. Most other players only take about 9-10 feet lead. I know at 14U level, most pitchers don't have good pick off move and the cathers don't have the arm to throw it down to 2nd fast enough. I wonder how do the HS kids steal bases? Could they steal at will or they have to wait for the passed balls?

I would agree that running times are only important if someone knows how to use his speed. I disagree that running speed is not the most important thing in this equation.

Often we talk about base stealing when discussing speed in baseball. That makes sense, but speed plays in many more areas than just stealing a base. And while the very fastest 60 runner may not be the top base stealer… The top base stealer at the highest levels is always very fast. Carl Crawford runs a 6.3 60. There are no slow, great base stealers at the MLB level.

I agree that the 60 may not be the ideal distance to judge baseball runners, but it is the distance used. That and home to first times! Home to first can be even more misleading because of the type of hitter and other circumstances.

Anyway the most important aspect of speed in baseball is the “first step”. It can make up for a lot deficiencies in raw speed. Especially on defense! But slow is slow and fast is fast!

Regarding base stealing… The most important time is the stolen base time. This is usually about 78 feet and ends in a slide. If the pitcher knows what he’s doing and he and the catcher are a combined 3.2 to 2B, it doesn’t make any difference how good the baserunner is if he can’t get there in 3.2 or less.

So while things like instincts (the jump) are extremely valuable and benefit all who possess that ability… they become even that much more valuable to the guy who can also run like a deer.

Which guy is most likely to score from 1B on a double? The smart base runner with average speed or the guy who runs a 6.3 60? Both can easily be taught how to round the bases correctly!

The problem with the 60 is that it doesn't differentiate the guy with flat out straight line speed from the guy with a lightning first step.
I really like to see the 60 timed with a laser system and include a 30 yard split...this tells me much more about how a player runs. Unfortunately you rarely see this system used.

rbinaz,

I agree with you completely. In fact, at one time we used to time 20, 40 and 60. It was good info for us and revealed some interesting things, but no one other than us seemed to care.

My Dad use to tell me all the time growing up:

There ain't no substitute for speed son!

Boy, was he right!

quote:

Originally posted by coachbwww:
I agree with you. Take a big lead is very important.
Although my son is not the fastest guy in the team,
he can steal 2nd base easy everytime. I credit this to the huge lead he took. He usually takes a lead about 12 feet and diving back to 1st at will. Most other players only take about 9-10 feet lead. I know at 14U level, most pitchers don't have good pick off move and the cathers don't have the arm to throw it down to 2nd fast enough. I wonder how do the HS kids steal bases? Could they steal at will or they have to wait for the passed balls?

Your son can't be playing at a very high level of 14U if he can steal everytime, the pitchers don't hold runners well and the catcher's can't throw anyone out. Sounds like he needs to play against better competition if that's the case.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
But could Secretariat steal second?

I'd hate to be the mid-infielder taking the throw

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
But could Secretariat steal second?
rz1

I'd hate to be the mid-infielder taking the throw[/quote]

HOOF'S Riding High.
Or
Horse Head First??
EH

rz1

Are you telling that Secretariat doesn't know how to slide?

I would want to see Secreteriat shoot a jump shot, slam dunk, hit a baseball, throw a pass, field a groundball, pole vault, ice skate, etc., etc. before naming him the greatest athlete ever!

Not saying he couldn’t do all of that, but he WAS a HORSE! I mean a real horse! Wouldn’t the jockey be the athlete?

ath•lete
n.
A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.

Who was the greatest athlete of our time? Think I will start that thread!

Greatest Athlete of all time


Jim Thorpe
Jackie Robinson

just two to start with

TRhit - I agree with teaching the reading of pitchers and how to get a jump. That is where I have usually spent time as a coach. My son has been doing that OK. He was 21/23 on stolen bases last year. Both CS were in the same game, he got picked off day-dreaming and then the next time on base (same pitcher) he got a bad jump (concerned about getting picked off) stealing second and was thrown out. But, if we hadn't noticed that his 60 time was worse than expected at some workouts/tryouts, we wouldn't have worked to figure out the bad crossover step that he had. So, in that sense, it was helpful to us. Also, since this is one of the few semi-objective stats that are thrown around, it seemed like it was going to be important. At his college workout, however, the coach was convinced by the stolen base success rate (and a few sprints) that the speed was OK and wasn't too concerned about the 60 time.

PGStaff - I essentially was timing my son at 20, 40, and 60 to try to analyze where to work on his speed. Since your org used to do that, I was curious if your experience was like my one person sample (Son was 3 seconds at 20, 5 at 40, and 7 at 60) which seemed like the start was where we needed to work, or if the runners were all over the map with different running styles. Someone here said that people should still be accelerating through the entire 60 yards, which wasn't our experience. It seemed like my son was at top speed at about 20 yards and held.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Regarding base stealing… The most important time is the stolen base time. This is usually about 78 feet and ends in a slide. If the pitcher knows what he’s doing and he and the catcher are a combined 3.2 to 2B, it doesn’t make any difference how good the baserunner is if he can’t get there in 3.2 or less.

PG,
Please forgive my ignorance. 3.2. is that from pitcher first movement, pitcher passed knee/rubber, or pitcher ball out of hand?

P.S. I like to advertise that I have the fastest charter boat in all the Great Lakes, over 80 mph. Pretty good for a 38 foot charter boat, wouldn't ya say?

I had to pay the truck driver an extra $100 to get it up to that speed on the tailer on the highway.

Rwulf,

I’m stuck at home today… ice and snow! When I get a chance I’ll check our old database and try to get you some numbers. There were many instances when the slower 60 time had the faster 20 time. Personally I’ve always believed 20 yards is the most important distance in baseball. Luckily, that is also the easiest distance to improve time with improved technique.

CPLZ,

The combined time is from commit to the ball reaching 2B. For a RHP it is usually timed from when the left foot leaves the ground. There are two times for LHP, one the same as RHP and the other from actual commitment to the catchers mitt. Example: pitcher 1.3 from commit to catcher… catcher 1.9 pop time = 3.2 to 2B. There's actually a fraction more involved dealing with the transfer. But if you start the watch at commit and stop it when the ball reaches 2B, that's it. It takes both a good jump and good speed to get there with a slide in 3.2 seconds. If the runner is a consistent 3.1 the pitcher/catcher are in trouble!

IMO Jim Thorpe that greatest athlete of all time

quote:

Originally posted by RYNO:
IMO Jim Thorpe that greatest athlete of all time

I'll go with Bo Jackson.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
But could Secretariat steal second?

I heard he had trouble with the hook slide.

quote:

Originally posted by powertoallfields:

quote:

Originally posted by RYNO:
IMO Jim Thorpe that greatest athlete of all time

I'll go with Bo Jackson.

I'll go with some guy who never even got the chance to play the game. Who knows what sort of freak of nature was / is out there?

We never ran players through straight-line 60 yard dash drills. I didn't find them to be applicable anywhere on the baseball diamond.

I wanted 30 yard times and that was it. I like the way PG and Co. broke down the 60, and I imagine at his level that data was very useful. For my 18U travel team, knowing a player's 30 yard time and the quickness of how he reads a pitcher were the factors I used in the equation PG referenced (P->C->2B). Because the player has an average 10 foot lead, taking his 30 yard time, reducing the time by 10%, and comparing against the P->C->2B time let me know all I needed to know during the course of a game.

Watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c_ylcxgCaI&feature=related

Simply amazing.

quote:

But the 12 feet lead with 6.9 60 speed and quick first step

He wouldn't be stealing second off our 14U team (last year) with a twelve foot lead. He'd be wearing the first baseman's mitt on his wrist, while wishing he had longer fingers.

Why not to messure 60 yards time?..it is the equivalent to home to second distance. If scouts takes home to first times, 60 yards running is a good complement. It is true, you don't run 60 straigh yards in baseball,except running after a ball in the outfield, and I agree like almost always, with my friend TR that running the bases is a lot more important than run 60 yards. But 60, 40, or home to first, scouts just want to know how fast a prospect is. They know that if a player is fast they can teach him how to run the bases. So, in showcases they are looking for natural gifts that humans bring from heaven and can not be teached.