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31 replies

A Salute to Kansas State

Rob KremerRob Kremer1,000+ posts
Are you kidding me?

Kansas State scores the TD that would tie the game with a 2 point conversion, and the player gets flagged for excessive celebration because he saluted the end zone crowd for about two seconds while standing out the back of the end zone?

So the two point conversion is from the 18 yard line rather than the 3 yard line.

TOTALLY ridiculous. Why would an official insert himself into the game in such a stupid way, at such a critical time.

He should never officiate another game. Period.

The rule is 9-2-1d, which describes excessive celebration as:

“Any delayed, excessive, prolonged or choreographed act by which a player attempts to focus attention on himself (or themselves).”

What this wide receiver did was 1) immediate, not delayed, 2) not excessive in the slightest 3) not prolonged, since it lasted no more than two seconds, and 4)spontaneous, not choreographed.

That's four strikes on one call.
Last edited {1}
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fillsfanfillsfan1,000+ posts
That might be one of the worst calls in college football history. Does this official realize he is working a game played by human beings not robots. He directly affected the outcome of the game with a totally incorrect interpretation of the rules. If that was excessive celebration so is every time a quarterback sack occurs.

This guys should definitely be punished somehow. Fined, lose games, suspended, something.
CPLZCPLZ1,000+ posts
It's funny this comes up after I just watched the ESPN special on 30 for 30, "The U" on University of Miami. I remember being one of the intolerant bastages that hated the U and thought terrible things about them...as I watched from my upper middle class fully furnished basement in an all white suburb of Chicago.

I felt a bit ashamed of myself as I watched, and saw who those kids were, and what they came from and why they were who they were.

When the NCAA instituted the anit celebration rules and showed the video to the U team, one of the players commented, "It looked like our highlight film".

I'm all about not showing up your opponent, but I think I've found more room for fun too. Kids are supposed to be excited. Any ref that can't understand that, shouldn't ref.
Last edited by CPLZ
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
I was that guy too CPLZ. And then I saw that 30 for 30 and had the same reaction. Think about it. You just scored the touchdown that will give your team a chance to win the game with a 2 point conversion. All you do is salute the crowd and turn and hand the ball to the ref. Wow

Next year its a spot foul. Which means no score. A 15 yard penalty from the line of scrimmage where the play started. How about some common sense? How about some understanding what excessive is?
S SwampboyHSBBWeb Administrator
In my last couple years of officiating high school football, there was a big emphasis on celebrations.

My attitude was:
Spontaneous joy--no foul (just don't drag it out).
Taunting or showing off--throw the flag.

I thought the letter of the law and the examples we were shown at our training sessions went a little too far. But as long as I was getting paid to officiate the games, I was obliged to call it the way they wanted it called, whether I liked it or not.

I do wonder how college officials were instructed on this rule this year.

It's also worth pointing out that one of the principles of officiating is to make the correct call without regard to the game situation (I know this goes against conventional wisdom, but it is an established principle).

This official might have hated the call as much as anyone but felt it was his duty to make it based on how he was trained.
Rob KremerRob Kremer1,000+ posts
quote:
This official might have hated the call as much as anyone but felt it was his duty to make it based on how he was trained.

If so, then he was "trained" in exact contradiction to the letter of the rule, as I describe above. What possible training could result in a simple salute being interpreted to be any one of the four things that define excessive celebration?
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
Maybe they should allow reveiw on these type things so they can get it right. Sometimes on personal foul calls they flag the guy responding to a cheap shot. The one team gets penalized while the cheap shot becomes an advantage. Replay would solve that issue.

I wonder if the referees that made the K State call think they did the "right" thing today after seeing the play over and over.
S SwampboyHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kremer:
quote:
This official might have hated the call as much as anyone but felt it was his duty to make it based on how he was trained.

If so, then he was "trained" in exact contradiction to the letter of the rule, as I describe above. What possible training could result in a simple salute being interpreted to be any one of the four things that define excessive celebration?


Rob,
Having sat through a bunch training sessions on "areas of emphasis for this year," it doesn't strain my imagination to think that their definition of "choreographed" could have been broad enough to cover anything that looks like it was planned in advance, no matter how simple, brief or tasteful--even though in literal and common sense terms "choreographed" means a planned dance--like the Ickey Shuffle or the Dirty Bird.

Again, I don't know what guidance he was given, and I don't know if his call comported with that guidance. I'm just saying there might be some background worth knowing. The blame may lie with some committee somewhere more than the official. Just offering the possibility.
trojan-skippertrojan-skipper1,000+ posts
You would need to drop 30 or 40 flags per game if this is an excessive celebration. I tried to poste the you tube but can't get it, it's under k state salute.


I tell you what Syracuse gets screwed on this deal too. They played a great game and all anybody will talk about is this crazy call... They may have stpped the 2 pointer or won in overtime...
Last edited by trojan-skipper
S Strike 3100+ posts
Absolutely ridiculous. That ref should be ashamed of himself. Have you seen some of the other "celebrations" in this years bowl games that didn't draw flags? How about Justin Blackmon's TD?

If saluting is an excessive celebration, the NCAA has lost it's frickin' mind! It's not like he pulled a pen out of his shoe and signed the ball. This is a game played by humans. Let them show some emotion.

I hope that ref got 4 flat tires on the drive home last night and a bunch of one fingered salutes.
Last edited by Strike 3
Rob KremerRob Kremer1,000+ posts
quote:
I'm just saying there might be some background worth knowing. The blame may lie with some committee somewhere more than the official. Just offering the possibility.

Well, perhaps. It's a pretty sure thing that we will never know that background. But if this was consistent with the training he received, then pretty much every other ref during the bowl games have been disregarding that training.

But at some level, it doesn't matter. If the culprit was this one ref acting on his own, he should be held accountable, If it was the training he got that classifies such demonstrations as excessive, then the idiots who determine the policy should be held accountable.

What will likely happen is that no one will be held accountable at all, and that is frustrating.
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