I think what may be getting lost in the conversation is playing against good competition. Yes, recruiting is largely regional for a variety of reason that have already been pointed out but the talent from all over the country is being aggregated in the summer hot spots of Atlanta, Hoover, Phoenix and Ft. Meyers for the most part. Coaches are traveling to those places to see kids from their region play high level ball against good competition from all over. Watching a stud prospect run wild against weak local talent won’t tell them much. If it did, they would go watch High School baseball in the spring.
@DanJ posted:@Smitty28 No, I am not saying those coaches only recruit from with that green bubble. But yes, the vast majority of their rosters are filled with kids from within it.
First off, "good" is relative and subjective. Do you consider Nebraska (Lincoln) any good? The won the Big 10 this year for whatever that's worth to you. 24 kids of the 38 on their roster come from within that green bubble. 9 of their 14 2021 commits came from within that green bubble. How about Iowa Western CC? Perennial top 20 D1 JUCO that is 15 minutes from here. 28 of the 47 on their roster came from inside that bubble. D2 powerhouse Central Missouri in that green as well. Do programs within that green bubble recruit from outside of it? Absolutely, but the bulk of their rosters are from within it. Those are just 3 examples. So it MAY be the case that the talent in our area is somewhat better than you'd anticipate? I don't know. But all of this is beside my point. My point is that given that 98% of the kids in our area end up playing for programs within a 4-hour drive give or take, traveling to play in front of coaches in Atlanta and Florida produces juice that arguably isn't worth the squeeze. For 1-2% of the players around here, yes, there is some value traveling far and spending lots of money.
Playing in remote tournaments should not be looked at as a chance to be recruited by coaches with teams located in the remote locations (Atlanta, Florida etc). It's to prove yourself against higher caliber talent that you may not face locally.
Play well in a quality remote tournament and communicate those results to the local coach's
@22and25 posted:I think what may be getting lost in the conversation is playing against good competition. Yes, recruiting is largely regional for a variety of reason that have already been pointed out but the talent from all over the country is being aggregated in the summer hot spots of Atlanta, Hoover, Phoenix and Ft. Meyers for the most part. Coaches are traveling to those places to see kids from their region play high level ball against good competition from all over. Watching a stud prospect run wild against weak local talent won’t tell them much. If it did, they would go watch High School baseball in the spring.
The field in Atlanta, Jupiter, etc. is so watered down with bad teams that there is no guarantee that you face good competition until you get to bracket play - at least not consistently. Some regional tourneys are better than others and for most teams the best regional tourneys are good enough. Take one big trip per summer if you must but IMO that’s enough.
@adbono posted:The field in Atlanta, Jupiter, etc. is so watered down with bad teams that there is no guarantee that you face good competition until you get to bracket play - at least not consistently. Some regional tourneys are better than others and for most teams the best regional tourneys are good enough. Take one big trip per summer if you must but IMO that’s enough.
I agree that some of the those tourneys are watered down, WWBA specifically, but the cream rises to the top (bracket play). The bottom line though is that the players are going so the coaches go too.
@22and25 posted:I think what may be getting lost in the conversation is playing against good competition.
I still tell myself that that was the advantage of playing in those tournaments. Maybe it was true; anyway, the idea keeps travel organizations in business. I doubt that many or any kids on our teams were helped in their recruiting, but certainly the kids who were committed to our local P5s were watched by their own schools at the big tournaments.
I agree WWBA etc are watered down, but our teams (which never made bracket play) did get to play some "good" teams, and sometimes won, which was fun. Did the fun justify the expense and the expectations?
@anotherparent posted:No, he's saying that 98% of kids in his son's travel program commit to colleges within the green bubble, even though they play in travel tournaments designated by the red circles. That's true of most kids, I think, certainly true of my son's organization.
Maybe more than 50% of kids wouldn't transfer if they took a broader view of the scholar-athlete experience and expanded their boundaries a bit. Just saying...
Ah, yes, the “we’re flying to Fort Myers in February so we can play against the best competition” bit. I’m not saying that isn’t true for some, but as others have already said, the big tourneys have gotten so watered down that half of your opponents or more could be on par or worse than you can easily see in your own backyard. Have a $2000 check and roster full of rec ball talent? Then PG has a spot for you against the “top” competition! But wait, there’s more! We’ll maximize how long you stay alive in the tourney by scheduling you 5 pool games over 5 days! You can’t lose!
But I’m cynical and skeptical whenever I hear this. A) if you’re not rolling almost every team locally every time, how great is the need to get on a plane? And B) my money says that 95% of those who tell you the reason they’re getting on a plane is so they can face the top competition, are actually going because they’re hoping some big program will “discover” them and offer because of it. It’s a way to justify the time and money without divulging how great you think you are and that you’re simply hoping someone there will see what you believe.
@DanJ posted:Ah, yes, the “we’re flying to Fort Myers in February so we can play against the best competition” bit. I’m not saying that isn’t true for some, but as others have already said, the big tourneys have gotten so watered down that half of your opponents or more could be on par or worse than you can easily see in your own backyard. Have a $2000 check and roster full of rec ball talent? Then PG has a spot for you against the “top” competition! But wait, there’s more! We’ll maximize how long you stay alive in the tourney by scheduling you 5 pool games over 5 days! You can’t lose!
But I’m cynical and skeptical whenever I hear this. A) if you’re not rolling almost every team locally every time, how great is the need to get on a plane? And B) my money says that 95% of those who tell you the reason they’re getting on a plane is so they can face the top competition, are actually going because they’re hoping some big program will “discover” them and offer because of it. It’s a way to justify the time and money without divulging how great you think you are and that you’re simply hoping someone there will see what you believe.
Well said. Every word is truth.
I agree with a lot of what's been posted, disagree with some.
First. I strongly agree that some of these tournaments have become so out of control. With summer storms, there should be better planning. I heard that teams got forced out of compensation rounds in Atlanta? Figure it out, PG had over 500 teams and PBR had how many? That's just crazy. Spend your money wisely. College is expensive.
If you don't like it, think about how coaches feel. I know that much planning goes into their day. Yes, this is part of their job, but they make a plan and most plans have been through previous contact with players or travel team coaches with recommendations. Your player needs a plan as well. Don't wing it when going to the larger programs.
Also, do coaches go to watch players play better competition, you bet. Why, because most mid D1 programs play upper tier mid week games and a win helps their RPI. If your player doesn't show well against a stronger program he may either not be a consideration or end up on the bench. Make sure your travel coach alerts teams your son has had contact with.
Most importantly, your player by mid HS, should have a relatively good idea where he falls within the competition. Join a travel team who he will play for, don't join a better one because no one may notice if he doesn't play.
Just some observations. It may make sense to some, not to others.
Most of all, don't let others shame you into the decisions you make. Make a plan. A good one, and things will work out, whether it be JUCO, D3, D2, D1.
Your son's academic goals should be most important.
JMO
@adbono posted:Okay, good for you. What P5 program is your son at?
What's with the hang up on where he plays? I have to explain myself to you? I should give personal information up so you can validate whether my son's P5 school is good enough for you?
What does it matter whether he played for a 15 win P5 school or threw 60 innings for a tournament team? He's going to get a degree from a good school at a substantial discount and he gets to play baseball for a few more years.
You told me I was exactly who the twitter thread was directed at. That's simply not true. Instead of saying maybe I was wrong you're waiting to find something wrong with the programs my kids are part of.
I could care less about P5 or not. The youngest turned down two and committed to a "lesser" program where they want him more. The only thing I get out of him being at a P5 is a guaranteed 4 year scholarship and cooler apparel.
@PABaseball posted:What's with the hang up on where he plays? I have to explain myself to you? I should give personal information up so you can validate whether my son's P5 school is good enough for you?
What does it matter whether he played for a 15 win P5 school or threw 60 innings for a tournament team? He's going to get a degree from a good school at a substantial discount and he gets to play baseball for a few more years.
You told me I was exactly who the twitter thread was directed at. That's simply not true. Instead of saying maybe I was wrong you're waiting to find something wrong with the programs my kids are part of.
I could care less about P5 or not. The youngest turned down two and committed to a "lesser" program where they want him more. The only thing I get out of him being at a P5 is a guaranteed 4 year scholarship and cooler apparel.
Interesting response. I was wondering where your kid played. A lot of people have asked me that question and I answered it without being suspicious of their intent. I think you made an assumption about why I asked that’s off base but whatever.
@DanJ posted:Ah, yes, the “we’re flying to Fort Myers in February so we can play against the best competition” bit. I’m not saying that isn’t true for some, but as others have already said, the big tourneys have gotten so watered down that half of your opponents or more could be on par or worse than you can easily see in your own backyard. Have a $2000 check and roster full of rec ball talent? Then PG has a spot for you against the “top” competition! But wait, there’s more! We’ll maximize how long you stay alive in the tourney by scheduling you 5 pool games over 5 days! You can’t lose!
But I’m cynical and skeptical whenever I hear this. A) if you’re not rolling almost every team locally every time, how great is the need to get on a plane? And B) my money says that 95% of those who tell you the reason they’re getting on a plane is so they can face the top competition, are actually going because they’re hoping some big program will “discover” them and offer because of it. It’s a way to justify the time and money without divulging how great you think you are and that you’re simply hoping someone there will see what you believe.
So we had a a team forfeit at the 17U BCS National Championship tournament and WWBA 17U National Championship this year. Good times...PG needs to fix that.