Help me out here in identifying the problem. Some see it one way and others see it another. So, are there a large number of inner city black kids that WANT to play baseball and can’t, or are there a lot of adult suburbanites that WANT inner-city black kids to play baseball that won’t?.....
AND...
Could it be there are more white boys in the suburbs that are denied the chance to play college basketball that inner city black kids that are denied the chance to play college baseball? If so, is that a problem? If it is a problem, who would represent the oppressed?
Fungo
Fungo:
It's been my observation over the last few years of watching travel ball that the teams we have played that are predominately afro-american are comprised of kids whose parents are middle class comfortable to wealthy. There also are a number of them that struggle, like we do some months.
One thing that can be said is you couldn't find a nicer bunch of families. Their kids have talent all over the map... no different than anyone else.
My advice to these parents is the same for any parent with aspiring ballplayers...work hard, work smart, focus, learn from the best if you can, strive to be positive, develop and cherish your confidence, and most important have fun! Being a member of the HSBBW doesn't hurt either!
I really think if anyone wants it and is dedicated to being successful then it will happen regardless of anything.
It's been my observation over the last few years of watching travel ball that the teams we have played that are predominately afro-american are comprised of kids whose parents are middle class comfortable to wealthy. There also are a number of them that struggle, like we do some months.
One thing that can be said is you couldn't find a nicer bunch of families. Their kids have talent all over the map... no different than anyone else.
My advice to these parents is the same for any parent with aspiring ballplayers...work hard, work smart, focus, learn from the best if you can, strive to be positive, develop and cherish your confidence, and most important have fun! Being a member of the HSBBW doesn't hurt either!
I really think if anyone wants it and is dedicated to being successful then it will happen regardless of anything.
Bee, I do not understand what your statement "spend time with a few Dominicans." I have and that is a different subject. It is about making baseball a game for all. When there is no tball field and no program to learn from how are urban kids to get to love the game? It is about opportunities.
As for the NCAA, all kids would be helped by the increase in scholarships especially those of limited financial means.
As for the NCAA, all kids would be helped by the increase in scholarships especially those of limited financial means.
BeenthereIL:
But not enough of the kugelis
But not enough of the kugelis
Here's about 20 guys (with Home State) that we seen at our events in recent years. I think they were all first round picks except Crawford who was the first pick of the 2nd round.
All great kids and outstanding talents! I know for a fact that a few of them came out of poverty. Some came out of large inner cities, some from smaller communities. All are now fairly wealthy, or at least they should be. I'm sure I could come up with many more.
Delmon Young CA
BJ Upton VA
Carl Crawford TX
Lastings Milledge FL
Andrew McCutchen FL
Justin Upton VA
Dewan Brazelton TN
Cameron Maybin NC
CJ Henry OK
John Mayberry KS
Chris Nelson GA
Greg Golson TX
Rickie Weeks FL
Adam Jones CA
Prince Fielder FL
James Loney TX
Denard Span FL
Josh Burrus GA
Corey Smith NJ
All great kids and outstanding talents! I know for a fact that a few of them came out of poverty. Some came out of large inner cities, some from smaller communities. All are now fairly wealthy, or at least they should be. I'm sure I could come up with many more.
Delmon Young CA
BJ Upton VA
Carl Crawford TX
Lastings Milledge FL
Andrew McCutchen FL
Justin Upton VA
Dewan Brazelton TN
Cameron Maybin NC
CJ Henry OK
John Mayberry KS
Chris Nelson GA
Greg Golson TX
Rickie Weeks FL
Adam Jones CA
Prince Fielder FL
James Loney TX
Denard Span FL
Josh Burrus GA
Corey Smith NJ
Trust me the inner city kids are not the only ones who have difficulties playing baseball.
I live in a very tiny community. We have a baseball field (such that it is). It's in a flood zone and sits under water a big portion of the spring and into summer.
When the field is under water - the call off the games. When it's not under water a farmer brings his tractor out and mows down the weeds (grass can't handle the standing water so weeds are all we have) and they play.
Few of the kids have their own bats - the few who do bring theirs and everyone shares. A bunch of the kids don't have baseball gloves, they borrow from the other team when it's their turn in the field.
There are barely enough kids to field two teams - and that's only because they let anyone - no matter if they are 3 or 12 play on the team. No one hits off a t-ball stand, they just pitch until the kid gets a hit. Sometimes they have to move up REAL close or they would be there all day.
There are no uniforms, no one wears baseball pants or cleats.
However, I have been here 15 years now and every year the kids endure the mosquitoes and play baseball. Not because any of them expect to EVER get a scholarship - but because they like the game.
So forgive me if I don't see the social injustice others see in this situation.
I live in a very tiny community. We have a baseball field (such that it is). It's in a flood zone and sits under water a big portion of the spring and into summer.
When the field is under water - the call off the games. When it's not under water a farmer brings his tractor out and mows down the weeds (grass can't handle the standing water so weeds are all we have) and they play.
Few of the kids have their own bats - the few who do bring theirs and everyone shares. A bunch of the kids don't have baseball gloves, they borrow from the other team when it's their turn in the field.
There are barely enough kids to field two teams - and that's only because they let anyone - no matter if they are 3 or 12 play on the team. No one hits off a t-ball stand, they just pitch until the kid gets a hit. Sometimes they have to move up REAL close or they would be there all day.
There are no uniforms, no one wears baseball pants or cleats.
However, I have been here 15 years now and every year the kids endure the mosquitoes and play baseball. Not because any of them expect to EVER get a scholarship - but because they like the game.
So forgive me if I don't see the social injustice others see in this situation.
Since DiMaggio how many Italians have been in the bigs---not a hell of a lot-- I am totally offended--and we are always accused of having "TIES" and we sometimes are accused of getting " a pass" in certain areas.
The way I look at it we have "Americans" and "Latinos" playing baseball--- that is a great mix and I like it--some of the American players and their parents can learn some things from the "latino" players--
Just another thought-- since MLB doesnt have a "strict dress code"ike the NBA perhaps some the black youth will now turn to baseball--and dont use the exuce of "no funds" --many programs susidize the players who need some help. If the kid wants to play he will play--the good prgrams see to it--lack of funds is a cop out
The way I look at it we have "Americans" and "Latinos" playing baseball--- that is a great mix and I like it--some of the American players and their parents can learn some things from the "latino" players--
Just another thought-- since MLB doesnt have a "strict dress code"ike the NBA perhaps some the black youth will now turn to baseball--and dont use the exuce of "no funds" --many programs susidize the players who need some help. If the kid wants to play he will play--the good prgrams see to it--lack of funds is a cop out
The proper number should be combination of those that are talented enough and those that have the desire to be there.
It's that simple. There is no exact number for how many of any kind of person should be in any field. Do you have the skills and do you want to be there, those are the only qualifications needed.
It's that simple. There is no exact number for how many of any kind of person should be in any field. Do you have the skills and do you want to be there, those are the only qualifications needed.
Baseballbum was very accurate in his post. There are factors that affect every outcome in life.
I am 50 years old, white, "plesantly plump" (not fat, dammmit), but have lost very little hair. I live in a major city with a 75+% Af-Am population. City schools' students interest in, participation in, and quality of play in baseball is just as Baseballbum said. The best basketball in the state is played in these schools, however. The best baseball is played in the suburbs where there is more money to spend on fields, equipment, instruction, etc. This is probably because those kids are primarily the children of parents who were raised when baseball was king, and thus are influenced by that fact.
If you will remember, there was a time when baseball was 100% White. Basketball too, football too. To say "We've come a long way, baby" is an understatement. We've come from ZERO to where we are today. The point that should not be lost is that everyone is now free to decide for themselves what vocation, or sport, to participate in.
To attempt to force, or complain about the lack of, a predetermined percentage on anything, including sports, ignores the fact that people may have other interests. Some say the percentage of Af-Am's in baseball is too low. No one dares to say that the percentage in basketball is too high. They would be chastised at a minimum and laughed out of town. When the numbers EXCEDE "societal representations", no one pays much attention, or at least no one says anything. I don't recall hearing much griping about the lack of White Corner Backs in "Big Time" college or professional football. Nobody is clammoring about the miniscule Af-Am numbers in hockey, golf, or tennis on the college/professional scales. Why?
The statements by the AF coach were not necessarily inaccurate, they were simply not PC. The fact that there are fewer Af-Am's playing baseball these days as opposed to the last couple of decades is not surprising, due to a number of factors, including those mentioned by Baseballbum and others, such as the influx of Hispanic/Latin players. There was a time when baseball was the only game in town, "America's Pastime" I believe it was called. Now, there are a number of alternative interests...for everybody.
I hope I haven't rambled too much.
I am 50 years old, white, "plesantly plump" (not fat, dammmit), but have lost very little hair. I live in a major city with a 75+% Af-Am population. City schools' students interest in, participation in, and quality of play in baseball is just as Baseballbum said. The best basketball in the state is played in these schools, however. The best baseball is played in the suburbs where there is more money to spend on fields, equipment, instruction, etc. This is probably because those kids are primarily the children of parents who were raised when baseball was king, and thus are influenced by that fact.
If you will remember, there was a time when baseball was 100% White. Basketball too, football too. To say "We've come a long way, baby" is an understatement. We've come from ZERO to where we are today. The point that should not be lost is that everyone is now free to decide for themselves what vocation, or sport, to participate in.
To attempt to force, or complain about the lack of, a predetermined percentage on anything, including sports, ignores the fact that people may have other interests. Some say the percentage of Af-Am's in baseball is too low. No one dares to say that the percentage in basketball is too high. They would be chastised at a minimum and laughed out of town. When the numbers EXCEDE "societal representations", no one pays much attention, or at least no one says anything. I don't recall hearing much griping about the lack of White Corner Backs in "Big Time" college or professional football. Nobody is clammoring about the miniscule Af-Am numbers in hockey, golf, or tennis on the college/professional scales. Why?
The statements by the AF coach were not necessarily inaccurate, they were simply not PC. The fact that there are fewer Af-Am's playing baseball these days as opposed to the last couple of decades is not surprising, due to a number of factors, including those mentioned by Baseballbum and others, such as the influx of Hispanic/Latin players. There was a time when baseball was the only game in town, "America's Pastime" I believe it was called. Now, there are a number of alternative interests...for everybody.
I hope I haven't rambled too much.
Beenthere
FYI: Before his high school issues, Iverson was reportedly also an amazing high school quarterback. In these parts, mentioned in that sport in the same breath with Aaron Brooks, Ronald Curry and Michael Vick.
Right now, we don't have a lot of black baseball players. Don't have a lot of black hockey players, either. And, after a lot of years and a lot of garbage, the world has discovered black people can indeed play with distinction at the quarterback position.
Part of cultural. Part is economic. Part is societal. And, if you take a longer view, part of it is cyclical.
I'm going by memory here, but shortly (a relative term) after Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier and the Negro Leagues died, black interest in baseball waned (into the early 60s). The interest went back up over a roughly 20-year span (into the early 80s), but has since cycled down to something of a nadir today.
I'm my memory is correct, that would mean we're due to see a slow climb starting soon.
FYI: Before his high school issues, Iverson was reportedly also an amazing high school quarterback. In these parts, mentioned in that sport in the same breath with Aaron Brooks, Ronald Curry and Michael Vick.
Right now, we don't have a lot of black baseball players. Don't have a lot of black hockey players, either. And, after a lot of years and a lot of garbage, the world has discovered black people can indeed play with distinction at the quarterback position.
Part of cultural. Part is economic. Part is societal. And, if you take a longer view, part of it is cyclical.
I'm going by memory here, but shortly (a relative term) after Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier and the Negro Leagues died, black interest in baseball waned (into the early 60s). The interest went back up over a roughly 20-year span (into the early 80s), but has since cycled down to something of a nadir today.
I'm my memory is correct, that would mean we're due to see a slow climb starting soon.
jaxnbulldog:
Had 360 degree, full range, Ramble Detector on at max. sniff and your post didn't trip it... no rambling detected...just a flat out good post.
Had 360 degree, full range, Ramble Detector on at max. sniff and your post didn't trip it... no rambling detected...just a flat out good post.
jaxnbulldog:
The bold portion of your post would put a smile on Milton Freidman's face (he of Free to Choose fame).
The bold portion of your post would put a smile on Milton Freidman's face (he of Free to Choose fame).
quote:Originally posted by Fungo:
AND...
Could it be there are more white boys in the suburbs that are denied the chance to play college basketball that inner city black kids that are denied the chance to play college baseball?
Fungo
No
Hey--what about HOCKEY AND NASCAR!! My non-black child could not play or participate in either of those elite, expensive sports--------wheres my funding?
I also notice a shortage of ITALIAN, ASIAN, GREEK, NORWEGIAN, SWEDE, GERMAN, FRENCH, ..............players in MLB......we need to do something---quick!
I also notice a shortage of ITALIAN, ASIAN, GREEK, NORWEGIAN, SWEDE, GERMAN, FRENCH, ..............players in MLB......we need to do something---quick!
I went to several Texas Ranger games this season. I could count on one hand how many African American fans were sitting in the stands. In the section I was sitting in $6.00 cheap seats there were NONE.
The interest just isn't there! Why force the black population to do what they are not interested in.
The opportunity is there for all americans, if they have the interest and desire.
The interest just isn't there! Why force the black population to do what they are not interested in.
The opportunity is there for all americans, if they have the interest and desire.
txdad06,
I agree with you!!!
'nuff said!
I agree with you!!!
'nuff said!
txda06
Go to a Yankee or Met game in NY and it is the other way around--there is interest in this region
Even the high cost of Knick seats does not seem to stop the black fan from attending with Spike Lee on the court as their leader
Perhaps it is because NYC is perhaps one of the greatest sport cities in the country--the fans are true sports fans
Go to a Yankee or Met game in NY and it is the other way around--there is interest in this region
Even the high cost of Knick seats does not seem to stop the black fan from attending with Spike Lee on the court as their leader
Perhaps it is because NYC is perhaps one of the greatest sport cities in the country--the fans are true sports fans
Not that I care, but as far as what the AF coach had to say.....I feel like you should be allowed to say what you want, and on the other hand you don't have to like what he said....I feel like he is a quality person, but what he said should be classified as racist. Saying you need more minority recievers because you need faster players.....would be like saying you need more white lineman because you need smarter players. One statement is no worse than the other.
Very interesting topic and a lot of valid points brought up here. I agree with the fact that young black athletes will choose to play what interests them at whatever stage they begin to compete in sports, I don't think they really care too much about scholarships when they are 6,7, and 8- years old. I highly doubt if you go up to a young black kid playing a youth league baseball game and tell him that there are only 11.7 scholarships for college baseball that he will drop his glove and bat and run and pick up a basketball. JMO.
Recently, my college baseball team held a camp for inner-city kids in Knoxville, many showed up anxious to learn and many played Pop Warner and youth basketball as well. I think whatever sport they choose to pursue will be out of enjoyment, not because of the invisible barriers set up to keep them out of baseball.
Recently, my college baseball team held a camp for inner-city kids in Knoxville, many showed up anxious to learn and many played Pop Warner and youth basketball as well. I think whatever sport they choose to pursue will be out of enjoyment, not because of the invisible barriers set up to keep them out of baseball.
d8
Do you feel it would be a racist statement if it was made by an Afro-American?
The hardest thing for folks to acknowledge is that there are racists among the Afro-Americans, the Whites, the Latinos and any other segement of society.
Racism is not a one way street, and only when we come to terms with that will be find a way to overcome it.
Do you feel it would be a racist statement if it was made by an Afro-American?
The hardest thing for folks to acknowledge is that there are racists among the Afro-Americans, the Whites, the Latinos and any other segement of society.
Racism is not a one way street, and only when we come to terms with that will be find a way to overcome it.