Agent's Fees

It's been our experience that 4% of the entire signing bonus is fairly standard. There are exceptions!

PGStaff, did you get my email?

"I love the HSBBW"

Bighit,

Sorry, I can't get my email where I'm at right now. We are in Florida and I can't seem to get my emails from back home for some reason.

I don't know if the private message thing works for me here, but I think it would.

If not, you can get me by sending to jerrythetruth@aol.com

I'm very interested in knowing how your son is doing.

Thanks

quote:

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Originally posted by MrOctober:
Hello to all. I have a nephew who is currently a draft prospect. He has been approached by a few agents already, and I was wondering what the member's experiences where with agent fees.

What is the going rate? Do they take their percentage from the whole signing bonus, or just the increase they negotiate.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks a mil!

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As in all walks of life, in general, you get what you pay for. Many people know the price of everything & the value of nothing.

Voodoo. I understand an agent's value. I just think that part of the evaluation process is getting ageneral idea of the standard practice, so as to be able to pick the right one.

Would you agree that 4% of the entire bonus is standard? Is taking your % from the entire bonus standard?

I'd appreciate your insight. Thanx!

When our son went through the agent selection process 2 years ago he found a large variation in fees ...anywhere from 2% to 6% of the total bonus.
Looking back, I really don't think there was any connection between price and quality. In fact, it seemed like the more established and experienced agents actually charged less than the newer agents who may have needed to make more money on the bonus to establish their business.

It is common to hear of higher percentages (10% or more) for agents involving Latin American players.

6% for an American player is astronomical. We have lots of experience in this area (though we are not in that business) I feel pretty secure in saying the majority charge 4% of the entire amount of the signing bonus. 4% is the most common percentage.

Again, there are exceptions! Usually the exceptions would be less than 4%. Afterall, it's a competitive business, As TxMom and many others on this board can tell you. Some have been successful negotiating a lower % with the advisor. It's been our experience that most of the top agents will not negotiate their fees.

We have seen examples of advisors who are trying to sell their services despite never having seen the player play. To us this is a no no. Always ask where and when they have seen your player. Ask what they saw.

We once received a call from an agent who was trying to get our blessing for him to advise one of our players. I asked how many times he has seen him play? He said "only once, but it was enough". I asked where he saw him. He told me the Team USA Trials. Problem was this player was invited, but got sick and did not attend the USA Trials. Of course, his name was still listed on the roster sheet. We quickly realized that this agent had not only never seen the player he wanted to represent, he in fact, was a liar! Needless to say, the player ended up going another direction.

"Would you agree that 4% of the entire bonus is standard?"

If you were to survey the field that would probably be the most common number. Is it standard? No,many charge more some charge less.

"Is taking your % from the entire bonus standard?"

Yes, within reason. If a kid is offered $250,000 & you get him $255,000, you're asking to become his former agent if you bill him for a commission on the entire amount.

I'd appreciate your insight. Thanx![/QUOTE]

You need to understand something about fees on Draft Choice contracts . I hope every one of your Sons/Friends/Former Players etc becomes a big star in the Majors. However, the odds say they won't & just like that may be the only big money they ever make from Baseball it might also be the ONLY money I might ever make from representing them & I have mouths to feed & tuition bills too.

For example, I have a client who is a former #1 pick and since being drafted more than 10 years ago he has beaten the odds & accumulated a little over 1 year of Major League service. In more than 10 years of representing him, I have been paid a total of $21,000 in commissions, all of it from his original contract.

For that I have had to take care of EVERY Minor League, Major League, Winter Ball, Shoe, Glove, Baseball Card & appearance contract he's ever had. I've had to help him find investment advice, tax advice, help with speeding tickets,sports psychologists, personal trainers etc. etc. I If you break it down by year, I have received $1750/year for the considerable amount of time I have spent.

I have stood by him through every disappointment, divorce, arm surgery, release, non-tender etc. when many others in this biz would have cut him loose long ago. I'm not
asking for any pat on the back, just trying to
put in perspective what the commission is all about & give you some insight into the real world not the "Arliss/Jerry Maguire" fantasy in the hope that you will see that when you find the RIGHT Agent, your money will be well spent.

"We have lots of experience in this area (though we are not in that business)"

Not trying to be a jerk but I have to ask if "we are not in that business" how do you have "lots of experience in this area". Would it perhaps be more accurate to say you "have frequently heard... whatever"? Either you're in the biz or you're not.

"It's been our experience that most of the top agents will not negotiate their fees."

True because if you cut your fees for one Player, how do you look the others in the eye?

"We have seen examples of advisors who are trying to sell their services despite never having seen the player play. To us this is a no no. Always ask where and when they have seen your player. Ask what they saw."

TOTALLY disagree. I don't get paid to scout & scouts don't get paid to negotiate. In fact, you can do your client a HUGE disservice by falling in love with your own evaluation of his talents.I've seen Players that I thought were GREAT Players & MLB didn't think much of them & I've seen Players I thought were total stiffs get drafted in the first round. I'd say I've been right about as often as they have but I don't draft them.

"We once received a call from an agent who was trying to get our blessing for him to advise one of our players."

Obviously the Agent you're talking about was a lying, scumbag. But just out of curiosity, why did he need your blessing? I've recruited &/or signed several #1 picks that participated in showcases including PG. The only blessing I ever needed was from the Player & his Parents.

Is finding the RIGHT agent easy for others out there? Are there really definite practicing agents to avoid? Is there any type of review board or evaluation service that warns of unscrupulous advisors / agents? I just don't think it's easy to find the RIGHT one for a "first-time draftable person" trying to take this experience all in.

MrOctober,

In choosing which agent best fits your nephew, the fee should be only one part of your analysis. As voodoo and I have stressed in past threads, an agent can be crucial in a player's development. Hence, make sure you look at much more than the particular fee.

I always recommend you look for someone who is interested, not only in the present, but also where the player is headed. Try and select an agent who will be proactive in your nephew's development, be that through his hiring a nutritionist, trainer, etc.

Generally speaking, the 4% is standard., but again, if you feel comfortable with someone who charges a percentage point more than anyone else, then stick with him. His value may turn out to be ten times his commission.

Good luck,

FM

Voodoo,

MY experience comes from having two sons who played professional baseball. One in the major leagues. Do those that have used agents have any experience?

OUR experience comes from having thousands of PG Players drafted including nearly 800 in just the past two years. Many who have asked for our advice about agents. We are not in the business because it is a direct conflict to what we do. We know the business very well and could probably be one of the leaders if we chose. We have had 34 1st rounders in the last two years and have helped many of them sort things out. I think everyone we've helped is extremely happy. We are far past the "what we heard" stage. I'm surprised you being a high level agent wouldn't already know that. Ask SFX, Octagon, Boris, Larry Reynolds, Diamond Talent, Donnie Mitchel, IMG, or any of the other top agents if Perfect Game knows anything about the draft and how it works. My question is... Who are you?

Please don't spend your time getting back at me. I'm so sorry you disagree with the importance of seeing your clients play before you get involved with them. What do you talk about when discussing your client. We do high profile events that draw many of the very top agents in the business. Many of these agents in fact have their own little scouting department.

You come up with remarks regarding true numbers in the draft that counterdict your statement. You claimed you would rather have your player signed in the 5th round than by a "lousy" team in the 1st round. That was an amazing statement coming from a agent. Your reply then was "I've known that for twenty years. The final year on those atats was 1995 and you knew the figures in 1984.

Don't just argue and BS everyone. You bring up some very good points. But why is it so important for you to win an arguement. Everyone knows who I am, as soon as you get your name out here in the open, I'll continue the debate. Right now I think your playing games and making up stories.

Excellent post PG. In fact, it is one of the best I have read in a long time.

PG 1
Voodoo nothing

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PGStaff:
Voodoo,

"MY experience comes from having two sons who played professional baseball. One in the major leagues."

How many of their contracts did you negotiate?

"OUR experience comes from having thousands of PG Players drafted including nearly 800 in just the past two years."

SHOWCASING players is nothing like REPRESENTING them. Never said I know anything about showcasing players because I haven't done it. Don't see how you're qualified to comment on representing players if you haven't done it.

"I'm surprised you being a high level agent wouldn't already know that. Ask SFX, Octagon, Boris, Larry Reynolds, Diamond Talent, Donnie Mitchel, IMG, or any of the other top agents if Perfect Game knows anything about the draft and how it works."

I'm well aware of PG & the agents you mentioned no doubt have benefited from coming to your showcases. However, I doubt that they'll be seeking your advice anytime soon on how to negotiate contracts anymore than you would seek theirs on how to do organize showcases. Apples & Oranges.

"My question is... Who are you?"

None of your business. I haven't seen anywhere on this site that it is required to post personal information. My ego doesn't require your approval of anything I say to validate either my opinion or experience.

"What do you talk about when discussing your client."

The only things that matter, what people with comparable leverage have signed for. The rest of it is BS. MLB scouts know the players abilities better than you or any of the Agents you've mentioned. They have more experience in Player Evaluation & have seen the Players they draft more than you or any of the Agents have seen them. For me to try & match up with them in that area is a waste of my time.


"We do high profile events that draw many of the very top agents in the business."

I'm well aware of what you do. However,there's more than one way to find & recruit players. I rely on input from former clients of mine who are now involved in scouting & player development for MLB teams. I think their opinions are a little more valid than the "own little scouting department" of any of the Agents you previously mentioned. They may waste their time at showcases but it has never been necessary for me.

"You come up with remarks regarding true numbers in the draft that counterdict your statement." "Boris, Larry Reynolds, Diamond Talent, Donnie Mitchel"

Jeez, learn how to spell would you please. the word is contradict. Scott's surname is Boras, Donnie's is Mitchell.

"The final year on those atats was 1995 and you knew the figures in 1984."

You got your numbers from Alan Simpson. Do you think he's the only one on the planet with a computer? I've been keeping track of draft info. since 1976.

"But why is it so important for you to win an arguement."

The same reason a surgeon likes to have patients that survive the operation. It's what I do & I try to do everything to the best of my ability.

"Everyone knows who I am,"

Congratulations try not to dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back. However, taking credit has never been of interest to me. I'm content to do my job & remain in the background. I'll let my work speak for itself.

Voodoo;

A question for you regarding your former #1 pick, and all the various contracts you mentioned negotiating for him - did you not get a percentage of these? Especially any kind of endorsement deals like cards, gloves, etc? You said the only $ you made was from his original contract. So all those negotiations subsequently were free of charge?

Also, if you never came to watch my son pitch, he would never sign with you.

"Give 'im the stinky cheese"

voodoo, Your attitude is one of the reasons that agents get put down so much. You are like the internet hitting instructor who won't give out his name, but talks about how successful he is. If you are any good, you should post your business card and hand out the phone numbers of all the clients who you have done a good job for. Otherwise, you are just a guy posting on the internet who compares himself to a surgeon.

Voodoo,

My point in saying everyone knows who I am is not a pat on my back thing. It just means I have the balls to stand up and speak the truth without being anonymous and bragging about my exploits.

Something you apparently lack. Other than the bragging part, that is.

You have decided to argue and that's OK. Sorry I mispelled a few names. I think those people will forgive me, even if you don't. Of course, you're running out of material, aren't you?

In the meantime, I'll call you a fraud and apologize as soon as I know who you are. Depending on who you are, of course. If you're for real, we will know who you are.

By the way, do you really have a lot of luck securing clients you've never seen play? What a joke! Wasn't it you that said you think you could have done a better job of drafting players than the MLB clubs have done?

How do you negotiate? Just based on what the club that drafted your player thinks? Do you tell them you've never seen him play but you should pay him much more because you represent him? Who is really patting themself on the back? I find it hard to believe you're successful in your business.

Remember all you have to do is reveal your identity and I will have no argument. EVERYONE KNOWS WHO I AM and no matter what you say it has nothing to do with dislocating my shoulder trying to pat myself on the back. No one knows who you are, but you continually pat yourself on the back as some kind of expert super star agent. Come out of the closet if you have the balls!

Otherwise, why would anyone listen to your BS? Remember, if you're legit, I will formally apologize. I doubt whether I could recommend you though, based on what I'm hearing. Without inside information including seeing your player perform, I have no idea how you could speak on their behalf.

Perhaps you're one of those agents that recruits off of lists and plays the numbers game. You fool enough of them and you make money off of a few of them.

By the way, your supposed 1st pick that beat the odds didn't really buck the odds by playing 1 year in the big leagues in 10 years. Go back and look at that list that you claim to have known about for 20 years. BS is BS and it sticks out like a sore thumb. Maybe that's why you're "afraid" to mention your name or organization.

So far you have mentioned absolutely nothing in all your posts that everyone in baseball doesn't already know. And you've said some things that everyone in baseball knows is BS. It's time to come clean!

voodoo,

C'mon man, you really need to relax. Do you really think your insatiable need to win an argument reflects well on you?

While you may think you are doing it "to the best of your ability", you end up looking like a jackass to the rest of the board members.

Moreover, as an agent you are part of a professional community. That entails a certain degree of responsibility in every venue you present yourself. To act in the manner you are doing reflects poorly on all us agents. In essence, you are feading the very notion of unscrupulous agents you have been fighting in previous posts.

I have an idea...we can all pitch in and buy you about three dozen of those stress relief balls the Sharper Image sells. That way, when you come on the board, you can squeeze those suckers till they pop, and maintain the cordial animus with which you had been posting. What you think big dawg?!

;-)

FM

Welcome to the "real world" of professional sports.

Ask yourself this:
How would you like to have to go up against someone like this Voodoo guy if he was on the other side of the table?

The real world of professional sports - in all of its ugliness. Unmitigated ego and gall. All for a buck.

So sad.

And Voodoo - IMO - stop whining about your profession. Alot of folks work 3 jobs just to support their families. So save us the teary-eyed story about the poor agents' plight.

If its so bad - find another profession.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CANADIANLEFTY:
Voodoo;

"A question for you regarding your former #1 pick, and all the various contracts you mentioned negotiating for him - did you not get a percentage of these? Especially any kind of endorsement deals like cards, gloves, etc?"

Contrary to what you might think, not every player with a shoe or glove deal makes big money from it. For the most part, you're talking a few thousand dollars. So to answer your question, no I didn't charge him a fee on a $1500 contract.


You said the only $ you made was from his original contract. So all those negotiations subsequently were free of charge?

"Also, if you never came to watch my son pitch, he would never sign with you."

I've got clients who you've seen play on TV that I never saw play until they were in the Majors. If getting you the best contract possible isn't enough, then I guess it would be best for you to choose someone else.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pops:
voodoo, "Your attitude is one of the reasons that agents get put down so much."

Sorry to offend you but I didn't post here for your approval.

"You are like the internet hitting instructor who won't give out his name, but talks about how successful he is. If you are any good, you should post your business card and hand out the phone numbers of all the clients who you have done a good job for. Otherwise, you are just a guy posting on the internet who compares himself to a surgeon. "

Not going to let you bait me into reveling any personal information about myself or my clients. Sticks & stones.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Welcome to the "real world" of professional sports.

"Ask yourself this:
How would you like to have to go up against someone like this Voodoo guy if he was on the other side of the table?"

You'd get cut into tiny little pieces. That's why I'm good at what I do.

"The real world of professional sports - in all of its ugliness. Unmitigated ego and gall."

**** right I've got any ego. You think it's easy going up against guys like Billy Beane & Jim Hendry? If you don't have a strong ego in a job like this there will be nothing left of you but a stain on the rug. You think the ML Players don't have egos? That's part of what it takes to get to the top in any profession.

"All for a buck."

I suppose you do your job for free? You should change your login to "Mother Teresa"

"stop whining about your profession."

I'm not whining about my profession. I love my job. People asked questions about the biz that I'm trying to give real answers to. Don't need or want your love or your sympathy.

"Alot of folks work 3 jobs just to support their families. So save us the teary-eyed story about the poor agents' plight."

So I'm a bad guy because I worked my butt off so I DON'T have to work 3 jobs to support my family? Sorry life dealt you such a lousy hand that you would begrudge another man the fruits of his hard work.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by fmarq7901:
voodoo,

"C'mon man, you really need to relax. Do you really think your insatiable need to win an argument reflects well on you?"

Thought you weren't going to respond to any more of my posts?

Voodoo, I wonder if the contracts that Aurilia, Alomar and Juan Gonzalez got with their agents are making Schilling and Sheffield negotiating for themselves feel jealous.

Voodoo,

I spent several years of my life "interacting" with folks like you - in two professional sports. I left it all in 1998.
I'm still wiping the slime off.

Your "cut into tiny pieces" comment and mini-lecture on the toughness of the business is laughable. That is probably why you are anonymous.

You aint getting any love and sympathy for sure. Not from me, at least.

As for the lousy hand - I thank god for my blessings every day - so make sure you do your due diligence before you hack up another hairball.

quote:

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Originally posted by pops:
Voodoo, I wonder if the contracts that Aurilia, Alomar and Juan Gonzalez got with their agents are making Schilling and Sheffield negotiating for themselves feel jealous.

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Not even apples & oranges. You're talking about one player who was never on the level of Schilling & Sheffield(Aurilia) & two others who had been, but aren't anymore.

quote:

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Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Voodoo,

I spent several years of my life "interacting" with folks like you - in two professional sports. I left it all in 1998.
I'm still wiping the slime off.

Your "cut into tiny pieces" comment and mini-lecture on the toughness of the business is laughable. That is probably why you are anonymous.

You aint getting any love and sympathy for sure. Not from me, at least.

As for the lousy hand - I thank god for my blessings every day - so make sure you do your due diligence before you hack up another hairball.

---

AWW gee I guess now I'll have to go find a shrink to help me deal with the devastating impact of your disapproval.

PG 2
Vooddoo nothing

..bottom of the ninth.

Former Observer,

Is that your expert opinion?

Now gentlemen, let us play nice. Some of the posts have resorted to "I hate you" and name calling. Tone it down.

"I love the HSBBW"

Relax Bighit and enjoy all the wonderful posts by mr voodoo, the anonymous agent. He brushes off Mr Aurilia, Mr Alomar and Mr Gonzalez as over the hill. That is when a good agent would earn his money, and actually if you check Mr Gonzalez' stats for half a season, you will find that they were very good. He is a year younger than Mr Sheffield and 3 years younger than Mr Schilling, who negotiated a fine deal for himself at 37 years of age, coming off a year where he went 8-9.The owners are showing some restraint, and we will now find out who is an agent and who is a fraud. No wonder voodoo wants to stay anonymous, he is scared to death.

POPS, you know that I respect your posts, but I happen to agree about Aurilia, Gonzalez, and Alomar being over the hill. JMO

An we will never know if Sheffield and Shilling got a good or bad deal. I can surely believe that an agent would feel he could do better.

I would just like to get back to good information and everybody tone down some of the personal stuff.

"I love the HSBBW"

While I didn't expect such a "lively" discussion, I appreciate all the insight offered. You all have been a huge help.

Mr. October, I agree. i find the dialogue very interesting. I think that we are lucky to have Fmarq, Voodoo, Pgstaff, and bbscout contributing. I doubt that there are many websites that can boast that kind of participation. Now if we could get a GM to contribute, it would get interesting.

"I love the HSBBW"

quote:

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Originally posted by Bighit15:
POPS, you know that I respect your posts, but I happen to agree about Aurilia, Gonzalez, and Alomar being over the hill. JMO

That is when a good agent earns his money.

An we will never know if Sheffield and Shilling got a good or bad deal. I can surely believe that an agent would feel he could do better.

I disagree, we will find out rather quickly, when all the other players get signed for the year.


I would just like to get back to good information and everybody tone down some of the personal stuff.

"I love the HSBBW"

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Pops,

quote:

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That is when a good agent earns his money.

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Though I agree, nobody said otherwise.

What was said was:

quote:

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Not even apples & oranges. You're talking about one player who was never on the level of Schilling & Sheffield(Aurilia) & two others who had been, but aren't anymore.

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On the face of it, I have to agree. You cannot compare them. Each situation is different. Supply and demand dictate the market and frankly Sheff and Shill are big draws and the others are less desireable. Just a fact.

"I love the HSBBW"

quote:

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Originally posted by pops:
The owners are showing some restraint, and we will now find out who is an agent and who is a fraud. No wonder voodoo wants to stay anonymous, he is scared to death.

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Pops - excellent point.

I would also expect to see similar pressure on the agent business in other sports in the coming years.

Bighit - I agree it would be very interesting to get a GM - or someone who worked for a GM involved.

Comparing is what agents do. Getting top dollar is what they are supposed to do. Schilling getting a nice raise from $10 mill after going 8-9 and Sheffield getting a nice raise from $11.5 mill at their ages in this marketplace is very good.

Aurilia goes from $6.25 mill to $3.50
Alomar goes from $8 mill to $1 mill with $300K deferred for 5 years.
Gonzalez goes from $13 mill to $4 mill.

All of the above have agents except Schilling and Sheffield.

As far as Sheff and Shill being big draws, I would like to see that on paper. The Yankees and Red Sox already draw. What they did was understand the market and where it is going, which many agents have not done.