Bighit....I was at the same meeting as you..in Central Florida. Everything you stated was(is correct). I thought it was strange about not speaking to players' agents but that is exactly what he said. I do know that scouts call players ahead of time and ask them if they will sign for either slot money or a certain figure and if they get a negative reply they will move on to the next player on the list.
Had an in home meeting with scout who painstakingly explained how they put number ratings on all ballplayers they are interested in. If #1 is available they take him,
if not, move on to #2 etc. He said their research is done ahead of time so that they know if a player will sign in the slot range for that round. However, after so many rounds they run out of money and can't make $ offers even if they would like to. He also said that for some reason they would like to go above the slot range they have to call Commissioner's office for approval.
I think every organization has their own way of doing things. We are not concerned about the draft at this point--just trying to keep the boys focused until Jan 26th.
then let HS coach take over. Ha!
Moc1
You were more than likely involved in what amounts to a cattle call of talent within the area scouts boundries. This is very convenient for him and may also give him a chance to present his idea of the talent to someone he reports to like a cross checker or others. The presentation is geared to the majority who will probably be catagorized as similar thus allowing for an accept or decline move to the next person scenario. In any draft there are those who a differentiated as a can't pass on prospect, a good prospect and those that are needed to make up a roster so the prospects can play with a team. The majority in a cattle call are made up of roster spot types and don't have leverage. This group does have a choice though they can go to school or go to work against the odds.
How many players were at your meeting and how many might you feel at this point are considered 1-3 round types? Discussion was probably tailored to audience.
How many players were at your meeting and how many might you feel at this point are considered 1-3 round types? Discussion was probably tailored to audience.
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
QUESTION:
Why would and "agent" come on here and spill his guts as VoodooChile has been doing?
I find that a bit strange
TRhit
Spill my guts? People have asked questions regarding issues I happen to be familiar with. All I've done is offer an opinion within the context of my personal experiences.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chill:
"Schilling says- I will negotiate this myself and is attacked for stating he doesn't need an agent. At what point are these "older" players given some credit for being able to determine what "works" for them? And, why does it matter to anyone whether or not an agent "may" have gotten him more money?? Is it all EGO?"
Schilling is the one that made an issue of it & involving HIS ego by saying he could do as good a job as any agent. The fact is he didn't. The problem is that in this biz, what one players gets effects the negotiations of other players so Curt has helped the owners keeps salaries lower.
I know some of you think that's a good thing. But let me ask a question: If players agreed to an across the board reduction of 20% of their salaries, do you think the owners would take 20% off tickets, parking, concessions, broadcast rights etc?
"Schilling says- I will negotiate this myself and is attacked for stating he doesn't need an agent. At what point are these "older" players given some credit for being able to determine what "works" for them? And, why does it matter to anyone whether or not an agent "may" have gotten him more money?? Is it all EGO?"
Schilling is the one that made an issue of it & involving HIS ego by saying he could do as good a job as any agent. The fact is he didn't. The problem is that in this biz, what one players gets effects the negotiations of other players so Curt has helped the owners keeps salaries lower.
I know some of you think that's a good thing. But let me ask a question: If players agreed to an across the board reduction of 20% of their salaries, do you think the owners would take 20% off tickets, parking, concessions, broadcast rights etc?
quote:
Originally posted by MrOctober:
What kind of areas can be used as leverage, besides college commitments?
Any other strategies that scouts use to sucker a kid or his family into signing?
1st you need a good, experienced agent. Next line up a place to play in the summer. Nothing will let the team that drafts your kid know you're serious about your negotiating position as seeing your kid in a good summer league if they don't agree to terms within 2 weeks. You might look into JC's if your kid wants to sign sooner rather than later. He'll be drafted again after 1 year @ a JC rather than 3 @ a 4 year school.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chill:
If Clemens decides to sign a 1 year contract with the Astros...and gets to determine the where and when of it....the travel....the family arrangements....and sign within his predetermined "ballpark" dollar figure and he's happy....Isn't that fabulous that there could be more to it than just the money? Aren't all the accomodations for the families worth a ton?
Even though he is in the "twilight" of his career?"
Check your local paper for the story today on Rockets's deal with the Astros & you'll find that just as I predicted, it was negotiated by the Hendricks brothers.
If Clemens decides to sign a 1 year contract with the Astros...and gets to determine the where and when of it....the travel....the family arrangements....and sign within his predetermined "ballpark" dollar figure and he's happy....Isn't that fabulous that there could be more to it than just the money? Aren't all the accomodations for the families worth a ton?
Even though he is in the "twilight" of his career?"
Check your local paper for the story today on Rockets's deal with the Astros & you'll find that just as I predicted, it was negotiated by the Hendricks brothers.
VC
Of course they negotiated it but ROCKET I am sure who dictated to them what his terms and wishes were. You cannot tell me they did it all on their own !!!
TRhit
Of course they negotiated it but ROCKET I am sure who dictated to them what his terms and wishes were. You cannot tell me they did it all on their own !!!
TRhit
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
VC
Of course they negotiated it but ROCKET I am sure who dictated to them what his terms and wishes were. You cannot tell me they did it all on their own !!!
TRhit
A Player having input into his contract negotiations? WOW! What "inside" source gave you that's news flash? Are you always so profound?
Yes I can tell you they did all the negotiations on their own !!!
VC
Are you always so cynical and condescending???
Not good traits for an agent, at least in my book
TRhit
Are you always so cynical and condescending???
Not good traits for an agent, at least in my book
TRhit
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TRhit:
VC
"Are you always so cynical and condescending???"
Only when the other persons' comments call for it.
"Not good traits for an agent, at least in my book"
I'll try to get past the disappointment.
VC
"Are you always so cynical and condescending???"
Only when the other persons' comments call for it.
"Not good traits for an agent, at least in my book"
I'll try to get past the disappointment.
Can you really be working for your client(s) if you are spending so much time on this website?
TRhit
TRhit
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
Can you really be working for your client(s) if you are spending so much time on this website?
TRhit
Thank you for your concern but as long as I get my work done, they don't care. Why do you?
I dont
You sound like a kid in a new job--as long as it get it done does it matter
Not with my "kid" so you!!!!!!
TRhit
You sound like a kid in a new job--as long as it get it done does it matter
Not with my "kid" so you!!!!!!
TRhit
I'll probably regret posting this but here goes ...
Tom (a k a TR) ...
You forgot something there ... like a kid (who is very impressed with himself) ...
I am glad that none of the advisors who contacted us about our son were as condescending as VDC seems to be ... I am all for confidence in your chosen career/profession, but not to the exclusion of civility.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Go HIGHLANDERS !!!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Tom (a k a TR) ...
You forgot something there ... like a kid (who is very impressed with himself) ...
I am glad that none of the advisors who contacted us about our son were as condescending as VDC seems to be ... I am all for confidence in your chosen career/profession, but not to the exclusion of civility.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Go HIGHLANDERS !!!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Highlandermom
If he is an agent then "kid" is not in the equation--he HAS TO BE PROFESSIONAL !!!
TRhit
If he is an agent then "kid" is not in the equation--he HAS TO BE PROFESSIONAL !!!
TRhit
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
Highlandermom
If he is an agent then "kid" is not in the equation--he HAS TO BE PROFESSIONAL !!!
TRhit
First you try to pick apart what I say & when that is refuted you & Highlandermom pick apart how I say it.
Lawyers tell a story of a Senior member of a law firm telling a newly hired attorney that when presenting a case & the law favors your case bang the law, when the facts favor your case bang the facts & when neither the law nor the facts favor your case bang the table.
That's exactly what you've done. I didn't post to get points for style just to exchange info. If you don't like what I say or how I say it, DON'T READ MY POSTS!
Perhaps we can include KID!!!!
TRhit
TRhit
voodoochile---
Santa must have put coal in your stocking this Christmas....
Is this heaven?...
Santa must have put coal in your stocking this Christmas....
Is this heaven?...
quote:
Originally posted by PAmom:
voodoochile---
Santa must have put coal in your stocking this Christmas....
Is this heaven?...
For you Highlandermom & TRhit I'll quote Fungo from an earlier post "Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience."
hmm..I have been watching and reading these posts for th last week or so...and I see alot of people questioning voodoochile about ...EVERY word he types. Whether we agree with him or not...his style or not...he does have a right to voice his opinion in any manner in which he wants. I haven't seen any of his posts attacking anyone...unless he was attacked first. None of us are asked to expose who we are, what we do, what credentials we have or don't have. If he gives information that doesn't seem right...disgard it or don't follow his advice at all, it is everyone's choice.
Unlike everyone here, I don't have scouts talking to my son about when he will be drafted. The closest he came was a few scouts asking where he was going to college so they could make sure the scouts in that area followed him because he could be one to talk to in a few years...when he physically matures.
when it comes to talking contracts, is it really necessary to see how good the player is? he was drafted in a certain round, which means he will only get certain money...and the scouts makes sure the player gets his share...based on the "slotting". I know lawyers who negotiate contracts all the time with out even knowing the details of the work being preformed. The do it based on the documents and data provided from others....why should this be any different. A scout who is successful has an eye for talent and projectability...but not the letter of the law...the give and take. The lawyer has an understanding of the letter of the law...the game of negotiation, why would he care if the player could play or not?...he and the organization already know where the player fell in the draft....he isn't going to get a 10 rounder, 5th round money...if he does, I want him to represent my son some day...sight un seen...
Just me 2...or 5 cents...which means absoulutely nothing...
Unlike everyone here, I don't have scouts talking to my son about when he will be drafted. The closest he came was a few scouts asking where he was going to college so they could make sure the scouts in that area followed him because he could be one to talk to in a few years...when he physically matures.
when it comes to talking contracts, is it really necessary to see how good the player is? he was drafted in a certain round, which means he will only get certain money...and the scouts makes sure the player gets his share...based on the "slotting". I know lawyers who negotiate contracts all the time with out even knowing the details of the work being preformed. The do it based on the documents and data provided from others....why should this be any different. A scout who is successful has an eye for talent and projectability...but not the letter of the law...the give and take. The lawyer has an understanding of the letter of the law...the game of negotiation, why would he care if the player could play or not?...he and the organization already know where the player fell in the draft....he isn't going to get a 10 rounder, 5th round money...if he does, I want him to represent my son some day...sight un seen...
Just me 2...or 5 cents...which means absoulutely nothing...
This fall, we will probably have an advisor for my son who is eligible for the 2005 draft. There will be a list of 8 questions, and the one who answers the questions the best will most likely be the advisor. In all the posts, I have only seen 3 of the questions answered that are important to us.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mde5:
"hmm..I have been watching and reading these posts for th last week or so...and I see alot of people questioning voodoochile about ...EVERY word he types. Whether we agree with him or not...his style or not...he does have a right to voice his opinion in any manner in which he wants. I haven't seen any of his posts attacking anyone...unless he was attacked first. None of us are asked to expose who we are, what we do, what credentials we have or don't have. If he gives information that doesn't seem right...disgard it or don't follow his advice at all, it is everyone's choice."
Know you didn't ask for it but thanks.
"when it comes to talking contracts, is it really necessary to see how good the player is? he was drafted in a certain round, which means he will only get certain money...and the scouts makes sure the player gets his share...based on the "slotting". "
Stated previously that there are exceptions every year. It all has to do with leverage i.e. how good a job you can do of planting the fear in the other side that you just might walk way from the deal.
"I know lawyers who negotiate contracts all the time with out even knowing the details of the work being preformed. The do it based on the documents and data provided from others....why should this be any different."
Agreed 100%
"A scout who is successful has an eye for talent and projectability...but not the letter of the law...the give and take."
Agreed 100%
"The lawyer has an understanding of the letter of the law...the game of negotiation, why would he care if the player could play or not?"
#1 not all Agents are lawyers
#2 Only would want to know from the standpoint of what his own opinion is. You're right re: where MLB has placed him which is a HUGE part of his leverage i.e. it's worse for a team to have a #3 pick walk away than a #23.
"he isn't going to get a 10 rounder, 5th round money...if he does, I want him to represent my son some day...sight un seen..."
Again there are exceptions. I've had clients drafted in the 4th round get 2nd round money, had one this year in the 12th round get approx 7th-9th round money. All depends on the kid & his family being determined to get a certain figure to give up amateur status.
"hmm..I have been watching and reading these posts for th last week or so...and I see alot of people questioning voodoochile about ...EVERY word he types. Whether we agree with him or not...his style or not...he does have a right to voice his opinion in any manner in which he wants. I haven't seen any of his posts attacking anyone...unless he was attacked first. None of us are asked to expose who we are, what we do, what credentials we have or don't have. If he gives information that doesn't seem right...disgard it or don't follow his advice at all, it is everyone's choice."
Know you didn't ask for it but thanks.
"when it comes to talking contracts, is it really necessary to see how good the player is? he was drafted in a certain round, which means he will only get certain money...and the scouts makes sure the player gets his share...based on the "slotting". "
Stated previously that there are exceptions every year. It all has to do with leverage i.e. how good a job you can do of planting the fear in the other side that you just might walk way from the deal.
"I know lawyers who negotiate contracts all the time with out even knowing the details of the work being preformed. The do it based on the documents and data provided from others....why should this be any different."
Agreed 100%
"A scout who is successful has an eye for talent and projectability...but not the letter of the law...the give and take."
Agreed 100%
"The lawyer has an understanding of the letter of the law...the game of negotiation, why would he care if the player could play or not?"
#1 not all Agents are lawyers
#2 Only would want to know from the standpoint of what his own opinion is. You're right re: where MLB has placed him which is a HUGE part of his leverage i.e. it's worse for a team to have a #3 pick walk away than a #23.
"he isn't going to get a 10 rounder, 5th round money...if he does, I want him to represent my son some day...sight un seen..."
Again there are exceptions. I've had clients drafted in the 4th round get 2nd round money, had one this year in the 12th round get approx 7th-9th round money. All depends on the kid & his family being determined to get a certain figure to give up amateur status.
quote:
Originally posted by bbscout:
This fall, we will probably have an advisor for my son who is eligible for the 2005 draft. There will be a list of 8 questions, and the one who answers the questions the best will most likely be the advisor. In all the posts, I have only seen 3 of the questions answered that are important to us.
I'm on the edge of my seat... what are the other 5 questions?
voodoochile, Actually, I would rather see you list 6-8 things that you think would be most important to do as an agent if you wanted to represent a young man being drafted out of college. Sell yourself to us.
Certainly not $ first and foremost as you preach, voodoo. Do you have any kind of relationship with your clients, or does that only come AFTER they sign with you. That is why you need to see the kids play. It's all about a relationship. And building that from the start. Do you think all the negatives you've received on this thread are an indication of what maybe you are doing wrong?
If you really want to be successful, maybe you should listen to some prospective clients, and what they are looking for in an agent.
It's not all about being cocky and arrogant, and getting the last $ from the teams.
"Give 'im the stinky cheese"
If you really want to be successful, maybe you should listen to some prospective clients, and what they are looking for in an agent.
It's not all about being cocky and arrogant, and getting the last $ from the teams.
"Give 'im the stinky cheese"
MDE5,
Good post. I also agree that VoodooChile has been baited and then accused of being rude when he responds.
Scout, I would like the questions to ask. If you don't want to print them here, pm me. I can use all the help I can get.
I also feel that it is more important that an agent know the family than see him play. With slots, it is almost not needed for the agent to know. Once slotted it won't matter much.
"I love the HSBBW"
Good post. I also agree that VoodooChile has been baited and then accused of being rude when he responds.
Scout, I would like the questions to ask. If you don't want to print them here, pm me. I can use all the help I can get.
I also feel that it is more important that an agent know the family than see him play. With slots, it is almost not needed for the agent to know. Once slotted it won't matter much.
"I love the HSBBW"
An agent's role goes far beyond the basic contractual negotiations. To concentrate exclusively on such an area is to overly simplify the profession.
In my view, an agent, representing a kid about to sign into the pros, has several duties, paramount of which (in the pre-draft stage) must be to build a relationship between the athlete and the athlete's family and himself.
Some may say that such an approach is unwarranted and that, being a business relationship, friendship and feelings should be left out. However, I see it as knowing when to seperate both roles (agent/advisor and friend/confidant).
As I've stated in previous posts, an agent who wants to be retained by a young kid has to realize the importance of his role in, not only the kid's, but the whole family's life. To sign into the professional ranks is an enormous step for the family unit as a whole. Not only is the young man leaving home for the first time, but he's taking his first steps towards a dream the family has seen develop since infancy.
It is overwhelming for a young mother to see her child, whom she heard speak of Major League dreams before he could even ride a bike, actually begin to fulfill them.
A responsible agent must recognize that he is in the individual's life to help all the people involved through the whole process, not just a contractual negotiation. An agent who understands such a role and is willing to accept the burden, should, in theory, be better prepared and much more focused to serve as the player's advocate.
I say all of this because of the talk of signing a player without seeing him in person. I see nothing wrong with initially contacting a kid you know to be a top player without previously hving seen him play. Heck, if not we'd have to scour the whole country. But no agent should allow such distance to carry over throughout the pre-draft stage and into the first year of minor league ball. It is my experience that agent's who do take such an approach are often fired because their players did not feel they were important to him.
In my opinion, make sure the agent you wish to hire takes the time out to get to know your son and you. Require him to EARN your trust. Don't just hand it over.
FM
In my view, an agent, representing a kid about to sign into the pros, has several duties, paramount of which (in the pre-draft stage) must be to build a relationship between the athlete and the athlete's family and himself.
Some may say that such an approach is unwarranted and that, being a business relationship, friendship and feelings should be left out. However, I see it as knowing when to seperate both roles (agent/advisor and friend/confidant).
As I've stated in previous posts, an agent who wants to be retained by a young kid has to realize the importance of his role in, not only the kid's, but the whole family's life. To sign into the professional ranks is an enormous step for the family unit as a whole. Not only is the young man leaving home for the first time, but he's taking his first steps towards a dream the family has seen develop since infancy.
It is overwhelming for a young mother to see her child, whom she heard speak of Major League dreams before he could even ride a bike, actually begin to fulfill them.
A responsible agent must recognize that he is in the individual's life to help all the people involved through the whole process, not just a contractual negotiation. An agent who understands such a role and is willing to accept the burden, should, in theory, be better prepared and much more focused to serve as the player's advocate.
I say all of this because of the talk of signing a player without seeing him in person. I see nothing wrong with initially contacting a kid you know to be a top player without previously hving seen him play. Heck, if not we'd have to scour the whole country. But no agent should allow such distance to carry over throughout the pre-draft stage and into the first year of minor league ball. It is my experience that agent's who do take such an approach are often fired because their players did not feel they were important to him.
In my opinion, make sure the agent you wish to hire takes the time out to get to know your son and you. Require him to EARN your trust. Don't just hand it over.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by bbscout:
voodoochile, Actually, I would rather see you list 6-8 things that you think would be most important to do as an agent if you wanted to represent a young man being drafted out of college. Sell yourself to us.
Not biting.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CANADIANLEFTY:
Certainly not $ first and foremost as you preach, voodoo. Do you have any kind of relationship with your clients, or does that only come AFTER they sign with you. That is why you need to see the kids play. It's all about a relationship. And building that from the start.
So by going to see a kid play it will build a relationship? How about the kids you recruit & don't sign? You've spent all that time for nothing. It's a two way street.
"Do you think all the negatives you've received on this thread are an indication of what maybe you are doing wrong?"
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself" - Ricky Nelson
"If you really want to be successful"
No matter how you define success CLefty, I've achieved it.
"It's not all about being cocky and arrogant, and getting the last $ from the teams."
I'm a mercenary CLefty, I go until my client tells me to stop.
Certainly not $ first and foremost as you preach, voodoo. Do you have any kind of relationship with your clients, or does that only come AFTER they sign with you. That is why you need to see the kids play. It's all about a relationship. And building that from the start.
So by going to see a kid play it will build a relationship? How about the kids you recruit & don't sign? You've spent all that time for nothing. It's a two way street.
"Do you think all the negatives you've received on this thread are an indication of what maybe you are doing wrong?"
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself" - Ricky Nelson
"If you really want to be successful"
No matter how you define success CLefty, I've achieved it.
"It's not all about being cocky and arrogant, and getting the last $ from the teams."
I'm a mercenary CLefty, I go until my client tells me to stop.
Not hired.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by voodoochile:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CANADIANLEFTY:
Certainly not $ first and foremost as you preach, voodoo. Do you have any kind of relationship with your clients, or does that only come AFTER they sign with you. That is why you need to see the kids play. It's all about a relationship. And building that from the start.
So by going to see a kid play it will build a relationship? How about the kids you recruit & don't sign? You've spent all that time for nothing. It's a two way street... they have to commit too.
If you caused an accident & were being sued for $2 million, how much of a relationship would you "build" with the attorney defending you? If you had TJ surgery, how much of a realtionship would you "build" with Dr. James Andrews if you were fortunate enough to have him do your operation? If you're going to be drafted & offered $2 million, a service is being offered that's will be the basis of a relationship as it exists over time. The rest is fairy tale stuff that many Agents try to sell because they don't have the skills & experience to sell that I do.
"Do you think all the negatives you've received on this thread are an indication of what maybe you are doing wrong?"
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself" - Ricky Nelson
"If you really want to be successful"
No matter how you want to define success CLefty, I've achieved it. "if you can do it, it ain't bragging" - "Dandy" Don Meredith
"It's not all about being cocky and arrogant, and getting the last $ from the teams."
I'm a mercenary CLefty, I go until my client tells me to stop.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CANADIANLEFTY:
Certainly not $ first and foremost as you preach, voodoo. Do you have any kind of relationship with your clients, or does that only come AFTER they sign with you. That is why you need to see the kids play. It's all about a relationship. And building that from the start.
So by going to see a kid play it will build a relationship? How about the kids you recruit & don't sign? You've spent all that time for nothing. It's a two way street... they have to commit too.
If you caused an accident & were being sued for $2 million, how much of a relationship would you "build" with the attorney defending you? If you had TJ surgery, how much of a realtionship would you "build" with Dr. James Andrews if you were fortunate enough to have him do your operation? If you're going to be drafted & offered $2 million, a service is being offered that's will be the basis of a relationship as it exists over time. The rest is fairy tale stuff that many Agents try to sell because they don't have the skills & experience to sell that I do.
"Do you think all the negatives you've received on this thread are an indication of what maybe you are doing wrong?"
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself" - Ricky Nelson
"If you really want to be successful"
No matter how you want to define success CLefty, I've achieved it. "if you can do it, it ain't bragging" - "Dandy" Don Meredith
"It's not all about being cocky and arrogant, and getting the last $ from the teams."
I'm a mercenary CLefty, I go until my client tells me to stop.
You expect to be in these player's lives for years, and you don't think building a relationship is important?
If all I was concerned about was the almighty $, I'd be hiring Scott Boras, no matter what he had to say.
Fairy tale stuff? Someone that is willing to deal with things besides $? Seems like all you are concerned with is getting the $2 mil. And you are going to base your negotiations on where BA or PG or Team1 projects them? or where they are drafted and their options? And not on what the player and his family want? Or what is best for the kid?
You ARE a mercenary, plain and simple. Not something to be proud of. Hired gun, available to the highest bidder, no loyalties. No Thanks!
Actually, I wouldn't define success in monetary terms. How many of your clients do you keep?
If Dr. Andrews was operating on me, he would certainly see me before he cut me!! He would know what was necessary, no 2 operations, same as people, are exactly the same.
Voodoo, your credibility gets lower with every post. You certainly don't seem to have your clients best intersts at heart, other than how much $ is on the bottom line. Do you ever contact a potential client before they are drafted? Or do you wait and see who you can make the most $ off of?
But then , you say you negotiated a number of contracts for your client free of charge.
"Give 'im the stinky cheese"
If all I was concerned about was the almighty $, I'd be hiring Scott Boras, no matter what he had to say.
Fairy tale stuff? Someone that is willing to deal with things besides $? Seems like all you are concerned with is getting the $2 mil. And you are going to base your negotiations on where BA or PG or Team1 projects them? or where they are drafted and their options? And not on what the player and his family want? Or what is best for the kid?
You ARE a mercenary, plain and simple. Not something to be proud of. Hired gun, available to the highest bidder, no loyalties. No Thanks!
Actually, I wouldn't define success in monetary terms. How many of your clients do you keep?
If Dr. Andrews was operating on me, he would certainly see me before he cut me!! He would know what was necessary, no 2 operations, same as people, are exactly the same.
Voodoo, your credibility gets lower with every post. You certainly don't seem to have your clients best intersts at heart, other than how much $ is on the bottom line. Do you ever contact a potential client before they are drafted? Or do you wait and see who you can make the most $ off of?
But then , you say you negotiated a number of contracts for your client free of charge.
"Give 'im the stinky cheese"
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CANADIANLEFTY:
You expect to be in these player's lives for years, and you don't think building a relationship is important?
I didn't say that. I said it's a two way street that will develop over time.
"And you are going to base your negotiations on where BA or PG or Team1 projects them? or where they are drafted and their options? And not on what the player and his family want? Or what is best for the kid?"
All of these things factor in. The bottom line though is always what the client wants.
"You ARE a mercenary, plain and simple. Not something to be proud of. Hired gun, available to the highest bidder, no loyalties. No Thanks!"
If you're looking for Mother Teresa in the Agent biz, you better check your GPS because you're WAY off course.
"Actually, I wouldn't define success in monetary terms."
Neither do I. I said no matter HOW you define success I've achieved it.
"How many of your clients do you keep?"
About 95%
"If Dr. Andrews was operating on me, he would certainly see me before he cut me!!"
I have clients he's operated on. HE & most Drs will spend 30 minutses talking to you, 30 minutes looking @ your MRI & 2 hours on the surgery. That will build some great relationship.
"He would know what was necessary"
Yeah because he has the experience of having done it before, same as me.
"Voodoo, your credibility gets lower with every post."
CLefty, your mind was made up to hate whatever I said before I even said it. I won't be losing much sleep over ANY criticism I get on a message board. I've got my family, my friends & my business. I'm set with or without your approval.
"You certainly don't seem to have your clients best intersts at heart, other than how much $ is on the bottom line."
Sorry you feel that way but you don't know what you're talking about, you have nothing factual to base an opinion of that nature on.
"Do you ever contact a potential client before they are drafted?"
Always. Have to recruit. Can't just say "Hi I'm going to be your Agent".
You expect to be in these player's lives for years, and you don't think building a relationship is important?
I didn't say that. I said it's a two way street that will develop over time.
"And you are going to base your negotiations on where BA or PG or Team1 projects them? or where they are drafted and their options? And not on what the player and his family want? Or what is best for the kid?"
All of these things factor in. The bottom line though is always what the client wants.
"You ARE a mercenary, plain and simple. Not something to be proud of. Hired gun, available to the highest bidder, no loyalties. No Thanks!"
If you're looking for Mother Teresa in the Agent biz, you better check your GPS because you're WAY off course.
"Actually, I wouldn't define success in monetary terms."
Neither do I. I said no matter HOW you define success I've achieved it.
"How many of your clients do you keep?"
About 95%
"If Dr. Andrews was operating on me, he would certainly see me before he cut me!!"
I have clients he's operated on. HE & most Drs will spend 30 minutses talking to you, 30 minutes looking @ your MRI & 2 hours on the surgery. That will build some great relationship.
"He would know what was necessary"
Yeah because he has the experience of having done it before, same as me.
"Voodoo, your credibility gets lower with every post."
CLefty, your mind was made up to hate whatever I said before I even said it. I won't be losing much sleep over ANY criticism I get on a message board. I've got my family, my friends & my business. I'm set with or without your approval.
"You certainly don't seem to have your clients best intersts at heart, other than how much $ is on the bottom line."
Sorry you feel that way but you don't know what you're talking about, you have nothing factual to base an opinion of that nature on.
"Do you ever contact a potential client before they are drafted?"
Always. Have to recruit. Can't just say "Hi I'm going to be your Agent".
bb, here's a question for the search for the prospective advisor, it's kind of a "weed out" question....
Q: Do you listen to Jimmy Hendrix? If so, what's your favorite song?
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."...Joe Jackson
Q: Do you listen to Jimmy Hendrix? If so, what's your favorite song?
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."...Joe Jackson
Voodoo- As I am looking at colleges one of the majors I am interested in in Sports Management. What exactly is require to become an agent in the professional sports business? Law Degree?
Thanks
Thanks
Voodoo,
If my boys are ever fortunate enough to require an agent, call me. I for one want an agent that is very aggressive, somewhat arrogant, slightly abrasive and mean as a red-nosed spider! I want the strongest representation possible and quite frankly, I like your personality. If I want touchy-feely, I'll pet my cat.
Different strokes.
If my boys are ever fortunate enough to require an agent, call me. I for one want an agent that is very aggressive, somewhat arrogant, slightly abrasive and mean as a red-nosed spider! I want the strongest representation possible and quite frankly, I like your personality. If I want touchy-feely, I'll pet my cat.
Different strokes.
Cuban lefty,
Voodoo stated in an earlier post on this page:
I am again reminded of the Debbie Kazmir (Scott Kazmir's mom) story.
She came on this site asking about agents and everyone called her unrealistic, asked about her rose colored glasses, etc. You guys never know who you are talking to on this site. Just a reminder.
"I love the HSBBW"
quote:
What exactly is require to become an agent in the professional sports business? Law Degree?
Voodoo stated in an earlier post on this page:
quote:
"The lawyer has an understanding of the letter of the law...the game of negotiation, why would he care if the player could play or not?"
#1 not all Agents are lawyers
#2 Only would want to know from the standpoint of what his own opinion is. You're right re: where MLB has placed him which is a HUGE part of his leverage i.e. it's worse for a team to have a #3 pick walk away than a #23.
I am again reminded of the Debbie Kazmir (Scott Kazmir's mom) story.
She came on this site asking about agents and everyone called her unrealistic, asked about her rose colored glasses, etc. You guys never know who you are talking to on this site. Just a reminder.
"I love the HSBBW"
Voodoochile,
I think you have walked into the neighborhood and have had to deal with some very territorial backlash from some of the longer term residents.
I get the sense that you have been around baseball operating in this capacity for more than a couple decades and if so, that alone would provide evidence of strong ethics and accomplishment. Your business is extremely competitive and filled with any number of unscrupulous agents. They tend not to last that long.
Do you know the story of Norby Walters and Lloyd Bloom? It seems on this board that you have been characterized in this light.
Please continue with your insight.
I think you have walked into the neighborhood and have had to deal with some very territorial backlash from some of the longer term residents.
I get the sense that you have been around baseball operating in this capacity for more than a couple decades and if so, that alone would provide evidence of strong ethics and accomplishment. Your business is extremely competitive and filled with any number of unscrupulous agents. They tend not to last that long.
Do you know the story of Norby Walters and Lloyd Bloom? It seems on this board that you have been characterized in this light.
Please continue with your insight.
Things to think about:
You want an agent/advisor who you are comfortable with.
Didn't you do the same in terms of the baseball program/College during the recruiting process?
As long as you are comfortable with the individual(s) then you will be fine and each person rows their boat their own way.
Each can be the judge of the "insight" the other offer
TRhit
You want an agent/advisor who you are comfortable with.
Didn't you do the same in terms of the baseball program/College during the recruiting process?
As long as you are comfortable with the individual(s) then you will be fine and each person rows their boat their own way.
Each can be the judge of the "insight" the other offer
TRhit
here goes another 2 cents...free of charge.
I think Voodoochile has a lot of insight as to what his role is in replationship to his clients. Personally, I would listen to an agent with my kid, give my kid advice as to what I thought...but it is up to him to decide what is best for him...and his agent is to then work on that. I for one, don't like things to be sugar coated or seen through rose colored glasses....give it to me straight, how it is. My son is that way also (go figure). He has been told by people in the baseball world that he has tremendoud talent and in time will play at the next level....do you know what that means?? NOTHING. He needs to keep working and developing to make it happen...
In the REAL world, life is cruel. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer..and sharks eat smaller fish. I'd rather have someone making sure I wasn't being eaten by a shark working for me, than a guppie telling me to swim faster.
There are a lt of great doctors who don't have a good bedside manner...and in a life and death situation...I don't care what his bed side manner is..in contract negotiation, I don't care how sweet he is.
Seems everyone has cast an opinion on voodoochile based on his manner of frankness, ...eat or be eaten is what I say. The strong live to fight another day, the weak wish they knew how to fight...or had a strong one fighting for them.
voodoochile, if my son ever achieves his "procieved" potential...I will look you up. We don't need cards sent on birthdays or holidays...just good sound advice.
as far as Schilling...could he have gotten more $$$...absoulutely..I guess to him it wasn't all about the $$...but after what he has made..what is a few mill
I think Voodoochile has a lot of insight as to what his role is in replationship to his clients. Personally, I would listen to an agent with my kid, give my kid advice as to what I thought...but it is up to him to decide what is best for him...and his agent is to then work on that. I for one, don't like things to be sugar coated or seen through rose colored glasses....give it to me straight, how it is. My son is that way also (go figure). He has been told by people in the baseball world that he has tremendoud talent and in time will play at the next level....do you know what that means?? NOTHING. He needs to keep working and developing to make it happen...
In the REAL world, life is cruel. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer..and sharks eat smaller fish. I'd rather have someone making sure I wasn't being eaten by a shark working for me, than a guppie telling me to swim faster.
There are a lt of great doctors who don't have a good bedside manner...and in a life and death situation...I don't care what his bed side manner is..in contract negotiation, I don't care how sweet he is.
Seems everyone has cast an opinion on voodoochile based on his manner of frankness, ...eat or be eaten is what I say. The strong live to fight another day, the weak wish they knew how to fight...or had a strong one fighting for them.
voodoochile, if my son ever achieves his "procieved" potential...I will look you up. We don't need cards sent on birthdays or holidays...just good sound advice.
as far as Schilling...could he have gotten more $$$...absoulutely..I guess to him it wasn't all about the $$...but after what he has made..what is a few mill
