Alabama-based surgeon to the stars pleads with parents to give young athletes a break

While I agree with everything in the article, it is sorta like Pandora's box. I'm not sure how to stop it or even slow it down. If you don't train year round, you will get passed by. That is simply facts. While 12 or 13 is younger than I am talking about, by 15 or 16 that is the way it is. My son was a casualty. His was not overuse. He played basketball and football up until 9 th grade. We always monitored his pitch count. He didn't throw a curve ball until around 14/15. So I don't have the answer. We were lucky that son didn't require surgery, rehab only. I don't have the answer and would be afraid to give advice.

Parents need to make a stand. But parents are often the ones at fault. 

Those in the medical field will always lean towards safety above development.

 

When the best players are the ones taking things easy we might see a change.

 

Risk and Reward!  Or should we say... No Risk = No Reward.

 

Those kids getting those big bonus payments in the draft didn't get there by taking it easy.  As long as those who have had TJ surgery are still getting drafted early, what are we suppose to think?

 

I am all for kids that want to play multiple sports.  I'm for kids that take time off. I'm totally against the abuse that takes place in baseball.  However, I also believe you have to deal with some risk in order to develop anywhere close to your full potential.  Those guys pitching in the Big Leagues aren't all the ones who pitched the least.  Though there is no doubt that there should be some reasonable guidelines and MLB and USA Bàseball is designing a good program that parents need to know about. We plan to follow their lead.

Imo, the issue isn't the fact that the players are working year round, but it is that they are working year round, taking no time off competitive baseball, and when they do decide to train, they don't do it the right way. Definitely agree with PGStaff on the idea that you won't get any better without taking some risks. Definitely need to make sure that they are smart, well researched risks.

 

Interesting article. Not specifically on the topic of taking time off, but it raises some relevant points.

 http://www.drivelinebaseball.c...arch-interpretation/

Sometimes it can be frustrating wanting to do the right thing, only to find out that you were 16-18 months behind what the new thinking is. I know a kid that would always take 3-4 months off in the fall to rest his arm. His sophomore year he never shut down and long tossed 3 times a week. He went from 86- 94mph in one year, and now his whole team is out long tossing in the snow. Growing spurt? hard work? or dangerously overworking the arm? who knows for sure, our current favorite that has had great results has been shut the arm down, and ease into weights and bands over the winter. Hopefully this method is doing more good than harm.

Do you (or anyone else) know the highest pick ever taken on a HS kid who's had TJ? College? I'm just curious how it impacts a kid's draft prospects. Thanks

So....who do we believe?  As a parent of a 12 year old who does have a year round commitment, which is the focus of this article....do we believe we are harming our child, or do we believe the coach who says baseball muscles are a learned thing that take near constant repetitive actions to acquire and keep?

 

In this doctor's opinion "For at least two months, preferably three to four months, they don’t need to do any kind of overhead throwing, any kind of overhead sport, and let the body recover in order to avoid overuse situations."

 

In our coaches opinion "November-February is about conditioning the body, speed and agility, combined with repetitive infield drills, combined with catching/pitching drills and conditioning the body to remember how to move to a baseball automatically."

 

We hear the word overuse from our coach often as in "for every inning you pitch you will sit out that many innings to give your arm a rest because we don't want to overuse your arm"...."We will only pitch once a week in practice because we don't want to overuse your arm".

 

Short of a kid saying something hurts, how do we as parents know if our kids arm is being overused? 

 

P.S. Neither my husband or I know anything about playing baseball, we certainly don't drill our kid, nor do we partake in private lessons for hitting or pitching...but a LOT of the 12 year old team does.

I know Jeff Hoffman was the 9th overall pick out of East Carolina this June.  He had TJ prior to the draft.  I know there was a second pitcher drafted in the first round this year that had TJ as well, I just can't remember his name.

CaCogirl, read, talk to others/coaches, learn.  At the end of the day, you are in charge and should have a plan for how often your son pitches/how much he pitches. You set his plan.   My son is a year older than yours.  I had the same thoughts as your post a year ago, confused by everything and all the advice.  Here are a few key things that can help:

 

-listen to Dr Andrews, specifically his pitch count rules.

-play other sports

-keep a log of when and how much your son pitches

-let the coaches know "when your son is available and for how many pitches"  (I haven't come across a paid youth coach yet that doesn't listen.  None want the reputation as an "abuser" of pitchers.  Bad for business.)

-get a reputable pitching coach (this can be the hardest, I got lucky w my son's coach)

 

PM if you want more specifics.  There is nothing that says what I am doing is right, but at least I have a plan.

Here are my thoughts. I have a senior in HS that is D1, and has signed to major school. He has been over used by his high school coach. We are talking almost 100 innings for his high school team last spring. He went into the most important summer of his life very exhausted because he had never eclipsed 100 innings before. His summer did not go as planned in part to arm fatigue. Really hurt his prospect status. His last pitch was Area Code in Cali and he then took off 3 full months this fall. He did not pitch in fall or go to Jupiter. This is risky because Jupiter is where the pro scouts start really evaluating you and he was not there. Will this work out for him? I have no idea. What I do know is he has trained in the weight room and on the track. He is rested and in the best shape of his life. Will the extra rest give him a fresh arm to get over the velocity hump? We recently started a 12 week throwing program that will go right up to first spring practice in late January. This program is hard and will ramp up as we go along. My hope and prayers for my son is that he is healthy, can lead his high school team to a championship and his velocity gets 2 ticks higher. He has been clocked by professional guys at 94 BUT sits high 80's and low 90's. He has always pitched in the fall/year around.Will this extended rest hurt or help? We shall see.I have another young son and I promise he will not pitch year around, mark that!!

Telling any kid to take 3-4 months off of any kind of overhand throwing, IMO, is basically an impossible task.  Especially if the kid is athletic and likes other sports.  That means, no pick-up football games, wiffle ball, home run derby or just playing around with their buddy's outside, just not realistic.  Back in HS I remember we were always playing something when we weren't playing baseball.  

 

I do think there can be some overuse at the youth level, but that is up to the parents to keep a watchful eye on.

 

Lots of opinions, lots of speculation and a whole lot of ????'s  Common sense is the main factor for me and my boys and any other kid that I coach.  What may be good for little johnny is not necessarily good for little billy.....IMO it is very much an individual thing

IMHO...

 

Your kid is exactly at the age when abuse begins.  Usually it's the result of an overzealous travel coach riding a couple of strong arms to try to win a plastic trophy every weekend.  Or it's the result of a kid playing for two teams at the same time and pitching for both.  Sounds like you're probably in a good situation with  your coach, and that your kid is not overextended.  But keep your eyes open. If you see your kid, or any kid, pitch in two games in one day, or pitch more than one or two innings on Saturday and come back Sunday, or pitch a full game and then play catcher, or stay in a game for multiple high-stress innings, then you have a problem.  If there's any doubt, keep a scorebook or buy a pitch counter for $5 and count your child's pitches.  If you Google Little League pitching rules you'll find numbers that are a good guideline for a 12yo.

Hopefully my kid's story will help.  He started "travel" ball at 10.  They started working out in November 3 days a week for an April 1 season start.  Each workout started with typical warm ups and then 10-20 min. of throwing.  Not hard, not far -- max distance was 60 feet or so limited by the indoor tunnel.  At first, I did the WTF -- they shouldn't be throwing that much, overuse, etc. (That's what I had "heard.")  The coach was an ex pitcher and had a pretty structured work routine.  So I trusted him.  Fast forward to spring and the kids start playing.  That year nobody had any arm issues.  Compared to his friends on other teams, they all had tired arms all season.  The difference, they didn't throw as much, or hardly at all, in the off season.  He has basically kept this routine up for 4 years, and has not had any significant arm issues.  He did have some tendonitis this fall and shut down for a few weeks.  Kids that didn't follow a similar program, have dealt with arm issues.  My experience is not scientific. 

 

My take then is that there is a difference between competitive throwing (ie; games and bullpens at 100%) vs. conditioning throwing (maybe 80%).  It's kind of like a marathon.  You work your way up.  Nothing wrong with taking a few weeks off, but 3-4 months I think would be difficult.  How do you keep your arm in shape before the season begins?  I would also encourage participation in other sports.  I think that helps tremendously.  I think the real issue is competitive throwing 365 days, which can be done in warmer climates.

 

 

One thing to add.... my 2017 used to pitch frequently in 14u and below, but he's had a serious shoulder issue and will not pitch again.  Early this  year, he saw a physical therapist and a pitching coach in order to basically relearn how to throw, and now he does a series of exercises  that are kind of a combination between the "throwers ten" and the standard Jaeger band routine (you can google either). Both the PT and coach told me that if baseball players did these exercises BEFORE they got hurt, not after, there would be far fewer injuries.  Something to think about.  My kid will be doing that routine daily, in  season and out, for as long as he plays baseball.

Since there are some posters of pre high parents. It's not important to be focused on baseball year round until high school. Even then my son still played a second sport just as many poster's kids have. Even then my son's November through January training was speed, strength and agility focused. He would swing a bat through that time. But he didn't throw.

With all due respect, because I see you have 10K+ posts...but how can you say not to be focused on baseball year round until high school? 

 

Here is what I know:

1. I live in GA, specifically in East Cobb territory where baseball competition is fierce.

2. My son will attend a 6A High School, they have a Varsity, JV, and Freshman team because once again competition is fierce they can have 3 teams and cut more than 100 players who try out.

3. While I have zero experience in the baseball world my kid has been saying since he was 5 that he wants baseball to be "his job" when he gets older.

 

Here is what I guess:

1. If my kid wasn't on a year round team he will not be able to compete at the same level as other children can to even make ANY of his high schools teams.

2. If he can't make his high school team he won't be able to make a decent College team or go further.

3. He will always be left wondering "what if"...what if I had trained more, what if I had taken more lessons, what if my parents had had me try out for a better team...could I have done anything?

 

Once again, with all due respect RJM I know you have the rare kid committing in 8th grade, but it's fairly common to have commitments in 10th grade, if you don't focus on baseball until 9th grade, meaning finally getting on a year round team, I'm thinking you are pretty much dooming the kid who wants to make it "his job".

 

While I know I will NEVER force my kid to play baseball, or want it more than him, if this is my kids dream as a parent aren't I obligated to get him to places/teams that can help him realize that dream in as safe a manner as possible?

From the article:

 

"but nobody was going in for Tommy John surgery to fix a frayed ligament that resulted from throwing a curveball all summer in elementary school."

 

Sigh. This author did no research. He apparently watched a 90 second segment on CBS Morning and wrote about it.

 

Two things:

#1) Why would he blame it all on curveballs in this sentence? There is no research to back this up and, in fact, Andrews own organization, ASMI, admits there appears to be no coorelation between curve balls thrown by youth pitchers and elbow injuries; and

 

#2) Of course no kids were getting TJ surgery back then. Parents didn't take their kids to ortho surgeons 20 years ago for elbow pain and general practitioners didn' refer their young patients to ortho. Even if they did, surgeons would have been unlikely to recomment the surgery for a lot of reasons.

Also from the article:

 

"'I started seeing a sharp increase in youth sports injuries, particularly baseball, beginning around 2000,” Andrews told The Cleveland Plain Dealer in an interview last year. “I started tracking and researching, and what we’ve seen is a five- to sevenfold increase in injury rates in youth sports across the board.”

 

Andrews makes a mistake in logic. What Andrews is saying is that he started seeing more referrals to his service. He can't make the logical leap to using this as proof that injury rates, themselves, actually increased. A sevenfold increase in TJ surgeries is strong evidence that TJ surgeries are on the increase, but provides no evidence of increases in actual injury rates. There has been a 1,000 fold increase in heart transplants and the use of artificial heartys in the past 40 years. Is this evidence to support an argument that heart disease is on the rise? No. It simply supports an argument that medical science has advanced and that we treat heart disease more often with transplants than in the past.

 

None of this means that there hasn't been an increase in injury rates. I am simply contending that using an increase in surgeies as proof of this contention is bad logic.

What makes you assume that the data he refers to is just from his own practice?