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This is an apology to anyone I may have offended regarding the Thread "Read This". I in no way meant it to discredit the baseball program at South Carolina. Just to set the record straight I don't believe in zero tolerance, but I don't believe in 4 strikes you are out either.
No excuses, but I did not explain why I posted that article and I am not going to get into that long explanation of the how it came about but for the following:
I began the thread after reading the many responses on drinking on official visits. I don't know if I was tired from being away from home for a week, working 9-6, waiting in the airport in Nashville for plane to arrive and take us back home.
My intention of the thread was to let parents know that their sons/daughters might be facing many new experiences while at college, and witnessing drinking at parties while on a visit should not shock them or you. And I state again, it should be a priority for you as parents to help to educate your sons/daughters about the policies of the school and coach regarding the consequences of their choices. Has nothing to do with not trusting your child. Unless you haven't noticed, drinking, the use of recreational drugs, casual *** is very much practiced at most schools across the country, big and small, d1,d2,d3.
So stop preaching to me about it being illegal, we KNOW it is illegal, THEY know it is illegal, just hope that when the time comes your kids will know what is right and what is wrong. That's it. They'll learn to set their own limits, don't drill them on what they did or didn't do, because chances are you aren't going to hear it all anyway. And don't worry, if your son does or doesn't have a beer on his official visit, it doesn't mean he is not going to make the team. Now if he is going to get ****face drunk, I might say there is a problem.
Bottom line, drinking is a just a PART of what's ahead.
Pabbmom,
Though I don't agree with everything you stated in your post, I found your post to be most honest and no one should condemn you for what you felt was the right thing to do. I know many parents who have done the samething.
AKbaseball,
You are most definetly on the right track when you state about half of juniors and seniors drink in HS. I would probably venture to say, there are many other things done as well.

Sorry if this still doesn't make sense to some, but again I apologize if I offended anyone.

BTW, I just want you all to know that Clemson should be on that list as well. It's very quiet on campus sun, mon, tues, wed, by thurs the place is ready to rock and by saturday rollin' Big Grin
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TPM - Thank you. I'm not even sure anymore what you're response was to the question but I've always been told if someone wants an honest answer or opinion that they'll get one from me. I think I'll stay away from the controversial topics from now. I was just expressing how my friends and I decided to handle things in our homes and didn't realize I'd open a can of worms. We just have seen too many kids leave home unprepared by their protective parents for what goes on at college and even in hs. We felt overprotective too but decided to handle it alittle differently. As one of the coaches who recruited my son told us (from a Christian based college), he was done recruiting from the Christian private schools because once they got to his school they ran wild and couldn't handle the freedom. Apparently he had to drop some kids from the team for their wild actions. I just hope my son knows when to stop from crossing the line. He knows he'll have to pay the price if he gets caught just like anyone else and we won't try to get him out of it. I am glad to see that the thread has seemed to come to a close even tho it did open up alot of discussion. Right or wrong, we're all just doing the best we know how. Thanks.
To Will - you asked about them drinking at our house but us not buying it. Not sure what you were looking for but they all just brought their own stuff. Some had parents buy it and some have brothers and sisters who can. They can always find a way just like we did when we were younger. Altho, in my day and age we went over the bridge to NJ where it was legal at 18.
Sorry if I offended anyone too. I've never been much of a dreamer and I guess I'm alittle too realistic at times.
Jemaz.
Bobby Bowden's policy is 2 strikes. Case closed.

Jealousy is a terrible thing Jemaz. Your talking about the greatest coach in the history of the game, a minister for the Lord. A man who has compassion and an understanding of the highest level....then you compare him to an ego maniac that has no regard for the rules, especially if he gets a chance to change them as he has done @ USC.
Soxnole:

You must know a different Bobby Bowden than I do. The one I know has in essence criminals playing for him on a regular basis. And he might give only two strikes, but his definition of a strike is extraordinarily limited, indeed.

I actually have no allegiance to either coach or school, but I can tell you that if you remove the blinders, the Spurrier reputation is far, far better than the Bowden reputation and is based on actual honesty rather than saying what he believes others want to hear, true or not.
quote:
If you want to talk about criminal's, research Oklahoma, Tennesee and Miami.


Nole, be careful what you ask for. A quick search of news archives will reveal a littany of transgresions by Seminoles and others. Two Seminole AA defensive starters were charged with multiple felonies just this summer.
Actually, PAmom, this is pretty entertaining and actually a healthy discussion. The point, I think, is that college life -- just like real life -- is very, very complicated and colored by many, many shades of gray and that individuals determine their own paths regardless of rules and regulations and policies that do or do not exist.

And, in the end, our points of view are shaped on where we -- or our sons and daughters -- happen to be at any given moment. Clearly, very, very different opinions exist on the same situations. Who is right? I don't know, but it is always worth discussing.
quote:
Neither has been or will be convicted.


Uh, umm, well, maybe, not so.....much.

quote:
Family ties helped A.J. Nicholson get through a rough summer off-the-field. He was arrested in June for failing to have proper ID at a tavern, then hit with a taser gun as he tried to flee from police, who mistakenly thought he was a suspect in a more serious crime.

In February, as he was driving at a slow speed near campus, he was involved in a minor accident.

After smelling alcohol on his breath, FSU police charged him with a DUI. Nicholson resolved both cases. The charges in June were dropped. He served community service and handled all other legal penalties associated with the DUI.

"I'm just putting that behind me and moving forward,'' said Nicholson.

Because of the circumstances, Florida State coach Bobby Bowden maintained his long-standing policy not to issue a game suspension for a misdemeanor case. Instead, Nicholson was punished, as he put it, ''in-house.''

Part of that includes lengthy conditioning drills.

"He does things in his own way, but we definitely receive the backlash,'' Nicholson said. "And you know, Coach Bowden has a way of doing things that you have to respect. He demands it of you. He's a great man, and I trust his judgement.''


http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...PORTS/508290316/1002

quote:
Florida State's A.J. Nicholson pleaded no contest Tuesday morning to a misdemeanor DUI charge and saw an unrelated misdemeanor dropped, while fellow star linebacker Ernie Sims is expected to accept a deal today to end his legal trouble.


quote:
Meanwhile, Sims, 20, who was arrested last month and charged with misdemeanor battery and then resisting an officer without violence after police responded to an argument he and his longtime girlfriend were having, likely will be echoing those sentiments today.

He's expected to plead no contest to disorderly conduct.


http://www.sptimes.com/2005/08/10/Sports/FSU_stars_iron_out_le.shtml

It was a very quiet summer for the Seminoles. Perhaps the character of the team is improving. There have been many summers when they would need a van to get all the ballplayers to court and back.
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quote:
it should be a priority for you as parents to help to educate your sons/daughters about the policies of the school and coach regarding the consequences of their choices. Has nothing to do with not trusting your child.


quote:
we KNOW it is illegal, THEY know it is illegal, just hope that when the time comes your kids will know what is right and what is wrong.


quote:
And don't worry, if your son does or doesn't have a beer on his official visit, it doesn't mean he is not going to make the team.


quote:
drinking is a just a PART of what's ahead


Sorry for the copy cat syndrome, but I just couldn't pass them up.

Nice post, TPM.

applaude
Dad04.

Why can't you admit when you are wrong? Nicholson. No Felony. No conviction. Sims. No Felony. No conviction.

Please read my post again...Felony charges were dropped. According to your own post there were only misdemeanor charges.

Your last post proves my points. Thank you.

The Seminoles have had quiet summers 95% of the time under Bobby Bowden....more than can be said for most top programs. Your van statement is B.S. and should be saved for other schools that I have already mentioned.

Now go do some real research on the gates...plenty of recent felonies...NOT a quiet year...with the coach (Zook) in the middle of it.

Comprehension is a beautiful thing...try it sometime.
Recriminations? They can be doled out for just about any program out there and possibly without fault to the program in question.

One thought I keep with me is that sports are a microcosim of society. Thus, if 1% of our society are felons for example, then we would expect a similar percentage will be found in the sports world.

I think these big time programs often look the other way when it comes to the premier athletes in many cases. Jim Tressel at Ohio State has the most squeaky clean persona of almost any big time coach in America. He was supposed to clean up the mess of poor grades and felonies bequeathed him by John Cooper. He has been HUGELY successful at Ohio State yet, it seems as though the felonies and trouble makers have gone up under his tenure. Coincidence with winning? I hope not.
soxnole - nice to know that only a felony gets you kicked off the FSU football team. For most of us it means jail time. Bobby Bowden has a long record of looking the other way when it comes to punishing his players. Your bias towards Steve Spurrier is understandable since he was the one that said the FS in FSU stood for "Free Shoes." This was based on another small incident involving a couple players at the university. I would put Steve Spurrier up against Bobby Bowden any day when it comes to handing out punishment to his players.
scbaseball. You'd be wrong.

Spurrier has punished no one, including the 2 player's that had a knife fight at a TEAM dinner during a Sugar Bowl appearence.

Once again, like others, your jealousy of Coach Bowden's program won't even allow time to READ my post. Your statement regarding felony's has no basis in fact or for discussion since your premise is false.
Nole

Bottom line. Nicholson ran out of a bar from the cops and he got off. He then got a campus DUI and lost his license for 6 months, did community service and ran some laps.

If my kid did either, he would not be playing baseball where he is.

Ernie Sims got busted for beating up his girlfriend. Like so many other cases he plead the beef down to disorderly conduct.

More power to them. If you are going to spend your time defending all the Noles that ride downtown in the back of a squad car, based on history ya gunna be very busy.

Glass Houses.
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Soxnole, here are some facts for you. The incident at the Sugar Bowl involved Darren Hambrick & another player & no knife was involved.
Hambrick hit the other player in the face with a glass & was IMMEDIATELY dismissed from the team & sent home. Darren Hambrick then transferred to South Carolina to play for Brad Scott, who before coming to SC was a long ime assistant for Saint Bobby. BTW Spurrier has already dimissed several players at USC. (Sometimes a little research goes a long way.)
I just love Saturdays when I can catch up on the best entertainment on the web (humming Bullwinkle’s rendition of The Beach Boys “Fun, Fun, Fun”). The irony of this post is truly classic. I haven’t stopped laughing, “out loud”. I hope the thread about a convention is not just lip service! Putting all these characters in one physical room would be a hoot (especially if were pourin’ a little “Irish”). This place really grows on you. I’ve even figured out how to use the smiley faces – I almost feel like an “Old Timer”. I thought there was no drinkin’ in baseball… or was that cryin’. God Bless all of you, you make my day.

“Can’t we just all get along?” ~ Rodney King
It's amazing how things can get twisted. As a Gamecocks fan, at first blush, I was disappointed to hear about the "four strikes, you're out" policy.

That is, until I saw the details. When you look at the testing program, it stacks up as one of the toughest in the NCAA.

The fact of the matter is, all college athletic programs deal with drug, alcohol, behavior or academic problems on a regular basis. Some deal with it better than others.

As for slinging barbs, pretty much any major program is an easy target. Saint Bobby at FSU? Please, give me a break. My uncle was involved with the FSU athletic program for many years before his death last year. Every time I'd needle him about another transgression, he'd just shake his head, and say that there was so much more that was covered up on a daily basis. Yeah, let the gullible be bamboozled by Saint Bobby the "great Christian gentleman"... it's all a facade.

Tommy Bowden at Clemson? The apple didn't fall far from the tree. When the Pickens County Police Department performs undercover drug buys from football players at the beginning of the school year, then waits until after football season is over to press charges... "nuff said.

Phil Fulmer at Tennessee... never mind, we don't have time to detail everything that goes on there.

The fact is, folks, you've got to try to raise your kids right, give them guidance, then hope the lessons sink in. When your kid goes to college, it doesn't matter if he/she is playing football at FSU, baseball at Georgia Southern, Basketball at UCONN, or majoring in History at Youngstown State. They will carry with them the lessons you taught them. Most listen, some don't. Yes, they will probably do their fair share of dumb stuff.... I know I did, and most posters here would agree that they did too. Believe me, it all doesn't happen at "the other schools".
Soxnole, since you obviously haven't read what the policy REALLY is...A little more detail: See below


Drug policy adds lesson to punishment

By RON MORRIS

Columnist


IT IS INTERESTING what a little digging beneath the surface often reveals.

On the surface, South Carolina’s recently released four-step drug-testing policy for athletes seems lenient and designed primarily to keep those athletes eligible for competition. A closer look reveals that the policy is geared toward educating athletes about the abuse of drugs, and the policy is perhaps as stringent as any in the country.

Before we get into all the details of USC’s policy, understand that athletes at most NCAA institutions are the only students who are tested for use of recreational drugs such as alcohol, marijuana and cocaine. Of the 24,000 members of USC’s student body, only the 450 or so scholarship athletes are forbidden from partaking in recreational drugs.

Other students do so at the risk of getting caught in possession of such drugs.

Understand also that schools such as USC voluntarily conduct drug testing for their athletes. There are some NCAA schools, mostly private, that do not test. That changes during postseason tournaments when the NCAA conducts drug testing, presumably to ensure level playing fields by preventing the use of performance-enhancing drugs.

The reason athletes are tested for drugs, and band members, cheerleaders and other scholarship students are not, is because those who compete are “held to a higher standard.” At least that is the speculation of USC athletics director Eric Hyman, who helped create USC’s new policy.

That being the case, drug testing for athletes is inherently discriminatory, and therefore any policy is punitive. The problem with USC’s previous policy, according to Hyman, was that it was long on being punitive and short on being educational and beneficial to the athletes.

Previously, USC athletes were dismissed from their respective teams after two failed drug tests. Hyman, and the committee that studied USC’s policy, concluded that a two-strikes-and-you’re-out policy did not mesh with the athletics department goal of educating athletes and preparing them for life after college.

“I look at every student-athlete as somebody’s son or daughter,” Hyman says. “How would I want my own to be treated?”

Hyman’s concern with the policy is that every one of his athletes starts from a different and varied background. For an athlete who was reared in an environment where recreational drugs are a part of life, it did not seem fair to return him or her to that setting without adequate education and counseling about drug use and abuse.

So, USC came up with a new policy. After an initial failed drug test, the athlete now receives a face-to-face warning from Hyman and is instructed to attend educational seminars and counseling for drug awareness.

“I want to be able to explain the consequences of what they’re doing,” Hyman says of his warnings. “I want to try to guide them for their future.”

Also, a certified letter detailing the failed drug test is sent to the athlete’s parent(s), and the athlete is automatically subjected to drug testing every seven to 10 days for a one-year period. Following a second failed drug test, an athlete is suspended for 25 percent of his or her team’s regular-season games. A third failure results in the athlete being suspended for an entire school year, and a fourth failed test earns a dismissal from school.

It is important to know that under the new policy a team’s coach has the discretion to dismiss an athlete following any failed drug test.

Beyond that, USC believes its administration of drug tests is among the most stringent in the country because of its number of tests, its low tolerance level and its ability to head off tampering with urine specimens.

Rod Walters, USC’s assistant athletics director for sports medicine, conducted a study of 20 randomly selected colleges and found that USC’s 1,500 tests in the past calendar year was the second-highest total. One school conducted 149 tests during a school year.

The NCAA screens for marijuana at 50 nanograms and confirms a failed drug test at 15. USC screens for marijuana at 20 and confirms at five. Walters said many schools are lowering their tolerance levels to that of USC.

Finally, USC is one of few schools that uses a refractrometer, which assures that a specimen is of normal volume and has not been diluted, according to Walters. In other words, it is much more difficult to use a masking device to beat a drug test at USC.

“My guess is that, other than the military academies where you get one strike and you are out, this is the most restrictive policy I know of,” Hyman says.

As with any policy, it must undergo the test of time. It could be that five years from now USC realizes the policy is too lenient and will make changes. For now, when examined closely, the policy appears to have the proper balance of being punitive as well as educational.

Now then, please enlighten us on FSU's policies, and while you're at it, try and rationalize why Saint Bobby wouldn't kick Janikowski off of his team.... He had a game to win, and needed his kicker. Get your head out of the sand, and come up for air.... worm

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