holy crap...I got enough advice that it going to make my head explode. Thanks...

Last edited by Former Member
Original Post

Tough situation.   I would imagine that the administration probably already knows about the guy.  Surely some other people have spoken to him in the past.   Maybe they don't care.

You could look to layout a case against the guy with the AD by noting the number of people who've left over the years, and asking, "Does the school really have this many 'problem' players?"  I would add, "Sir, don't you think that we are a pretty normal high school as far as kids are concerned?  I see no other high school baseball teams with 5 or more players quitting each year during the season.  Heck, I don't see large numbers of players quitting football, or basketball or soccer, cheer or any other team during the middle of the season, as we have most every year.  Perhaps the issue is not the players but the leadership."  You might add in your experience in leadership.  Add the story of Washington providing leadership https://betterlifecoachingblog...ry-about-leadership/ and note that good leaders are in front leading by example.  Not berating from behind.

Most of all, I would look to move out of the school, if possible.   Do you have a relative in another town that he can move in with?  Can you manage a move?

As far as just playing travel ball.  I don't think that is your best option.  College coaches still expect their prospects to have played high school ball.   Trying to explain to them that your kid quit because the coach is a jerk is not going to work well.  It comes off as not taking coaching and criticism well.  Remember; they most likely won't know anything about the coach in question.  They are only hearing that your son quit the team.

Best to you.  I hope that things work out well.

Details aside, this won't be the last time your son has to deal with an ass for a coach, boss, professor, etc.

You should equip him with how to deal with these people rather than having to do it for him. It's a valuable lesson.

I can sympathize with the coaching situation.  My son's school brought in a new coach that was so toxic that players who would have made up the entire starting lineup this season transferred out or quit over the past 2 years. The administration didn't care.  It took the coach's behavior ending up in the local news for anything to be done about it.

Oh yea - it's not OUR game, it's HIS game.

Last edited by Rob T

I have a 2020, so I am in your mindset right now, and I read every word you wrote here. 

Here is what I don't get:

1. You said "The coach literally excised him from the team and humiliated him"...what did you mean by that? Did he walk him off and yell at him...is that what happened?

2. What did you mean by this "sent us a very surprising email; totally trashing my son".  What were the adjectives used? 

3. I am not understanding how the head coach, assistant coach, and senior assistant coach all were on your son at once. Did all three approach him at the same time?

I'm trying to understand what all happened, but while you gave a lot of background on your son and the past coaching antics you didn't give a lot of information on what happened after the confrontation, and why your son feels like he wants nothing to do with this team/coach. 

No matter how much of an A-hole the coach may be, there seems to be a disconnect or parts missing to the story.  The coach or coaches took the time to put a letter together for you.  That is not consistent with a knee-jerk spur-of-the-moment over-reaction.  If you don't mind, what was the basic premise of the letter?  Could there be any substance to any of it?  Might your son have said something that was mis-interpreted?  If the HC is historically the problem, then why did two other coaches react toward your son so negatively before it even got to the HC?  You commented that your son was a teenager and wasn't perfect.  I'm trying to read between the lines and maybe get some of the other side of the story.

How did the meeting come about and who initiated it?  What is the objective?  Why would a coach who doesn't want the kid around the HS team be OK with him being present at the academy?

You, your son and his buddies could be totally right and the whole thing is because there is a bad coach and/or staff in place.  But there could be something else underneath this that could be an eye-opening learning opportunity for everyone.  I would suggest going to that meeting prepared with your position but with an open mind and lots of exploratory questions.

Over the years, we have had many kids leave our program.  Most partings have been very amicable.  Some have not.  Of those where the player and/or parent thought they were being wronged, a very high percentage moved on, only to find themselves in a situation where they "were being screwed again" by the next coach with the next team, in the next sport or in the next town.  So, to be frank, there was a common denominator on their side that they were not willing to see.  I am not saying this is your situation.  I'm only trying to help make sure you are open to finding out.

We will be anxious to hear how the meeting goes.  Best of luck.

BTW, to answer one of your questions - HS ball is not an absolute requirement for pursuing the game at higher levels.  

Last edited by cabbagedad

Sounds like this situation is ugly. yuck. Do you have any other options for his playing high school baseball?? Private school vs public school etc....

Life is short, baseball is a great sport. Why would anyone  let their kid play when it wasnt fun. He is a Freshman?? He still has another four years to play high school baseball. No reason to let these guys ruin the sport for him. I have seen kids get so abused by a coach that they quit the sport. 

As an advocate for YOUR son you have the obligation to do what is best for him at all times. IF this was a lesson that he needed to learn here, then I would leave it up to you to decide that. My son is growing into a man but not yet a man and as such needs to be developed but also needs to be protected against certain people or events that could do more harm than good. Decide if this is one of those times......I dont know the whole story and would refuse to give you any other advice than this. 

First a baseball thing. 4.2 to first and an 8.3 60 don't mesh. One is major league speed. One is snail slow. I completely question the person doing the timing. 

I'm betting the story isn't exactly as your son told you. More than one coach is upset with him. There isn't a conspiracy to get him. Your son has to suck it up and talk with the coaching staff about what they perceive he did wrong. 

My son was a varsity starter soph year of high school. When the bus stopped for a game the coach made a public announcement regarding my son that completely caught him off guard and humiliated him in front of the entire program. My son's response? I may never get to tell the coach. But I'll show him he's wrong. That's how these situations should be dealt with. 

Its normal to want to know the situation about the varsity as your son approaches the opportunity. But you can't just buy into every negative point you're told. You have to completely understand the circumstances before being able to access the claims. Whatever you do don't poison your son's mind with other people's opinions.

As the father of an 8th grader I don't recommend starting a coup against the coaching staff. Leave that to the upperclassmen varsity. You don't want to kill your son's chances before he has the opportunity to make varsity.

Sometimes coaches have difficult personalities. If they're breaking the rules and running off players the Board, Superintendent and AD notice. I don't believe for a second a coach threatened to hit your son with a clipboard unless he was smiling and joking about it. Otherwise it's assault. He could lose his job.

Last edited by RJM

My son played high school for a coach where kids quit baseball because of the coach. The parents publicly complained about the coach. It was obvious to me the coach could be difficult at times. But it was nothing to quit over according to my son. Every kid who quit was questionable to start. They had to blame someone over their lack of ability. Why not the coach who snapped at them a few times? 

There was a kid at our high school who left after soph year because the coach screwed him. He went to a Catholic private and got screwed there. He returned to the high school,and got screwed again. This time my son was a junior. He said the kid grossly overrates his ability. I can say the same thing about the dad. 

 According to the dad big time programs disocovered his son at showcases. But they ultimately backed off and screwed him. The kid headed for a JuCo first year of college and got screwed. He transferred to another JuCo. Junior year he didn't make the spring roster at a ranked D2. Guess why he didn't make it?

There was some talent there. The kid threw mid 80's. But he was uncoachable. He listened to his dad telling him not to listen to his coaches. Only listen to his private  instructors. Picture a high school and college coach being told off by a player he's wrong. I doubt every coach the kid ever had was wrong.

Last edited by RJM

RJM we actually had the same thought on this. The 4.2 and 8.3 stuck out like a sore thumb to me as well.  Maybe a typo but when I see that everything after it gets called into question. there do seem to be major pieces missing. Makes it hard to make any fair comment. 

Q: What's the difference between a coach who is challenging versus one who is an arse?

A: it depends whether you ask a starter's parent or a bench, cut, or quit kid's parent.

Major league fast as a 5'5" 8th grader? Does he bat left or right? What's his 60 time?

Last edited by RJM
  1. My son is pretty good pitcher and wants to mature his skills. Does he need high school ball for this? Or will Travel/Showcase suffice for recruiters?

 

My son is playing JC baseball after being cut Junior year of HS by a coach not too different from yours. Never played Varsity. May be a longer, harder road but it's possible. Can your kid still play 14U next spring? A little young but maybe look into spring leagues for red-shirted JC players.

Mchlwlsh posted:
2020dad posted:

...4.2 and 8.3 stuck out like a sore thumb to me as well.  Maybe a typo but when ... 

Sorry, it was a typo. Actually, 4.24 home to first, he is a fast little guy.

The 4.2 and 8.3 are not in sync. That time to first equates to mid 6's+ in 60, not low 8's.

Your situation requires further investigation as to what was said by all parties: perhaps a quiet conversation with one of the assistants, away from the field and in a neutral, non-confrontational setting.

Quotes from the 'trashing' email may help us understand the situation better.

Quite honestly none of your son's friends  etc are ever going to say something bad about your son, their reaction is not necessarily the best information to rely on.  Same for previous coaches.  I would also not initiate conversations with your son's friends or former coaches regarding the situation nor would I send them copies of the e-mails.  That's just asking for more trouble when one of those people mentions it to the coach or some other friend who does the same. 

If the coach sent me an email about my son's attitude etc. I would have told the coach he should talk directly to my son, not me.  Maybe you can still move the discussion in that direction as the more involved you are with the coaches, the bigger the problem.  Try to stay on the sidelines, it might not be the most satisfying approach in the short term, but it will work in the long run.

Don't know the coaches involved but some will challenge players as a way help them develop or to see what they are made of.  Yes, some coaches are just jerks, even at the professional level, however they can hold you back if you don't learn how to deal with them.

Finally, a  lot of rising to the next level is overcoming..... physically and mentally.  Mentally one must be able use "bad times" to your advantage, learn to cope and overcome, this doesn't always mean rolling over.  Let him deal with it directly with the coaches, you can advise him before and after the meetings. 

Good luck.

 

 

 

Okay, you didn't answer my questions so I will just say that I don't understand why YOU are having a meeting at the school or with the coach.  I also don't understand why the coach would email YOU about your sons behavior.  You know how I can tell my son is pissing off the coach, when he is sitting on the bench for an entire game.  There are no emails or heart to hearts...my son either has to take care of HIS business with the coach or he doesn't get to play.

Is HS necessary for a college baseball opportunity, no.  It isn't necessary, and if the coach has as bad of a rep as you say the college coaches know it and won't hold it against your kid.  Now, if the coach is known for being a hard a$$ and being hard on anyone that comes off as a punk, and your kid didn't make it in the program, that will also tell the college coach everything he needs to know.

If the email said your kid had an attitude then he likely did, why am I so sure, because I have a 14 year old 9th grader who says WAY more with his body than his mouth.  It's almost a prerequisite for being 14.

here is an uneducated opinion based on the facts I skimmed, I assume they are not 100% complete and probably only somewhat accurate...

Will it hurt to not play school, maybe some but maybe not, it won't be a deal breaker if he is a good kid and good player. Should there be some other resolution outside of a freshman walking off and quitting the team? absolutely.

Mchlwlsh posted:
CaCO3Girl posted:

Okay, you didn't answer my questions so I will just say that I don't understand why YOU are having a meeting at the school or with the coach.  I also don't understand why the coach would email YOU about your sons behavior.  You know how I can tell my son is pissing off the coach, when he is sitting on the bench for an entire game.  There are no emails or heart to hearts...my son either has to take care of HIS business with the coach or he doesn't get to play.

Is HS necessary for a college baseball opportunity, no.  It isn't necessary, and if the coach has as bad of a rep as you say the college coaches know it and won't hold it against your kid.  Now, if the coach is known for being a hard a$$ and being hard on anyone that comes off as a punk, and your kid didn't make it in the program, that will also tell the college coach everything he needs to know.

If the email said your kid had an attitude then he likely did, why am I so sure, because I have a 14 year old 9th grader who says WAY more with his body than his mouth.  It's almost a prerequisite for being 14.

Sorry, at work...

thats what I dont understand either, he just got done pitching three innings...why would why did he email me. yeah, I dont get it either, something isn't making sense. 

Was my son a butthead...probably, but the coach put it as if this attitude was an absolute, that if my son was turd all the time...there is a major disconnect when I know they chose him to play this fall.

As part of my original post, I was glad he made it through a year of what was a tough program...but to tell a kid to leave the game, after he just pitched well, coming off an injury, the first game/scrimmage since May? something is not making sense and because the coach has a history, that has put us onto defense when the coach asked us 

Is there a chance it went down like this:

Assistant coach is the only one keeping track of who is injured and who isn't and he was off when your kid started pitching.  After the third inning of your kid was pitching he walked out, saw who was on the mound and then told the other coaches "we have a problem".  At that point he called your kid over and said "Are you even allowed to be running yet?" Meaning....aren't you still hurt kid?  Your kid responds with a cocky singsong answer “my doctor said that I can't sprint to my fullest yet.” The Assistant snapped, “that's not what I asked you.”...wouldn't it make more sense in this scenario of WHY the assistant snapped, why the senior assistant told him to just go home, and why the head coach jokingly said he was going to hit him with a clip board?   Then you got an email about how cocky your kid is and did it possibly mention that he isn't taking his health seriously?

Pitching is one of the hardest activities you can do to your legs....I'm not a doctor but I would guess repetitive slamming of your legs downhill on a mound isn't something that should be tried unless you ARE fully recovered and can sprint and jog. And maybe it's possible that your kid has been told before about watching his health but he's ignoring the coaches and coming off as a cocky know it all who made the team in 8th grade so you know, he's already hot stuff and knows it all.

Just guessing

Just as you obtain information on the HS coach, he too gets information, sometimes years in advance of a player heading his way. So, forming an opinion before one gets the opportunity to prove what they're about is a two way street.

You don't have to like the coach or his program, but you do have to respect it.

Your player needs to work this out on his own and simply get to an understanding with the coach. Learn what it means to be humble and work his tail off getting better. That is how you prove a point.

Coaches love talented kids that do not bring baggage and contribute to the team. It's a very simple proposition. If he looks to a program like UVA.......go take in a practice, O'Connor is a very demanding coach. That's why he's successful.

Last edited by Backpick25

The coach must have one redeeming quality eh? - he picked your son as an 8th grader and you seemed like you were thrilled by that.  If he was such a bad guy, why not extricate yourselves from the situation then? 

You seem more politically connected than most (all?) I've seen post here.  You seem to know what every other coach and former player thinks of this coach and have no qualms about swapping stories about this coach - behind his back no less. 

Perhaps you have poisoned the well with your son.  If you feel you have been treated so "egregiously," I cannot see how that does not trickle down to your son. 

Let your son stand on his own two feet and fight his own battles.  The best way to win over the coach is keep the mouth closed and be the first to arrive and the last to leave.  Have your son use deeds and not dialog to make his point with the coach.  Your son cannot control a coach's decision.  All he can control is his own attitude and effort.  I think you've made it eminently harder for your son to learn that by playing politics behind the scenes and not just letting things happen as they ought to. 

Mchlwlsh posted:
CaCO3Girl posted:

Is there a chance it went down like this:

Assistant coach is the only one keeping track of who is injured and who isn't and he was off when your kid started pitching.  After the third inning of your kid was pitching he walked out, saw who was on the mound and then told the other coaches "we have a problem".  At that point he called your kid over and said "Are you even allowed to be running yet?" Meaning....aren't you still hurt kid?  Your kid responds with a cocky singsong answer “my doctor said that I can't sprint to my fullest yet.” The Assistant snapped, “that's not what I asked you.”...wouldn't it make more sense in this scenario of WHY the assistant snapped, why the senior assistant told him to just go home, and why the head coach jokingly said he was going to hit him with a clip board?   Then you got an email about how cocky your kid is and did it possibly mention that he isn't taking his health seriously?

Pitching is one of the hardest activities you can do to your legs....I'm not a doctor but I would guess repetitive slamming of your legs downhill on a mound isn't something that should be tried unless you ARE fully recovered and can sprint and jog. And maybe it's possible that your kid has been told before about watching his health but he's ignoring the coaches and coming off as a cocky know it all who made the team in 8th grade so you know, he's already hot stuff and knows it all.

Just guessing

haha, how did you know? have you heard me asking him if hes done his stretches, if he has done his band drills...

and yes, that is why I am meeting with the coaches...I want to find out what was said. I simply dont know, I get an email out of the blue saying that there is a problem. his PT is a sports med therapist, he knows he pitches. what has colored my perception of the situation is the coaches reputation, which is not good.

I was a HS athlete and understand the mindset that it takes to be a successful one.  I had to have a what the southerners call a "come to Jesus meeting" with my son when he was 12. 

The gist of the meeting was "The days of you sliding by on your natural ability are OVER, you need to loose that chip on your shoulder and actually listen to what your coaches are telling you, or you can sit on the bench.  I won't be defending you to your coaches, or asking what you did wrong, or fixing it.  You need to figure it out, this is between YOU and the coach. I have paid him the same amount the other parents have and here is a newsflash HE DOESN'T CARE WHAT YOU HAVE DONE IN THE PAST AND DOESN'T CARE IF YOU ACTUALLY PLAY!  He will only play you if you can help him win and no coach will play you with your attitude.  So, you can get over yourself now and do what the man is telling you to do or you can sit on the bench during every game and next year I won't pay for baseball, your choice."

Fall ball was rough, he struggled with being one of the best kids at practice, but then getting very little playing time.  However, by Spring he had given 100% in practices and listened to the coach and he earned his starting spot.  It was a real turning point, I honestly didn't know if he could do it.  Us parents are so use to fixing everything for our kids but when it comes to sports what the parents need to understand is that the only thing the coach owes your kid is the truth.  Some kids can handle that, some can't. 

My advice is that whether you not it or not, you seem like you are being "that dad".  I would back away and have the boy meet with the coach.  The coaching fraternity is so small, that you don't want a negative feeling out there in regards to your son, or you.  Both could be detrimental to your son. 

From some of the posts above, I think your son is partially responsible for the negative relationship with the coaches.  He needs to make it right with them and conform to the rules of the team. If he cannot do that, he needs to go somewhere else.  It is apparent to me that if the coach has the sour reputation that you mentioned, the administration is not going to do anything about it. Why would I think that?  Because if you feel the need to approach the coach, don't you think that others have gone to the coach and the administration before?

Mchlwlsh posted:
ClevelandDad posted:

The coach must have one redeeming quality eh? - he picked your son as an 8th grader and you seemed like you were thrilled by that.  If he was such a bad guy, why not extricate yourselves from the situation then? 

You seem more politically connected than most (all?) I've seen post here.  You seem to know what every other coach and former player thinks of this coach and have no qualms about swapping stories about this coach - behind his back no less. 

Perhaps you have poisoned the well with your son.  If you feel you have been treated so "egregiously," I cannot see how that does not trickle down to your son. 

Let your son stand on his own two feet and fight his own battles.  The best way to win over the coach is keep the mouth closed and be the first to arrive and the last to leave.  Have your son use deeds and not dialog to make his point with the coach.  Your son cannot control a coach's decision.  All he can control is his own attitude and effort.  I think you've made it eminently harder for your son to learn that by playing politics behind the scenes and not just letting things happen as they ought to. 

Politically correct, I guess, I am trying to take in opinions...As i have said in earlier responses...I have defended these coaches on numerous occasions, to my son too. Redeeming...I have never spoken with the head coach, that is how far I have been staying. I have actually kept pretty quiet about the coaching staff until now, as I have said in past posts, this coaches reputation precedes him, we did not experience what was said to us until now.

What I have been trying to express is the confusion created by this situation and there is a disconnect somewhere...thats why I need advice...and do not get; he showed he was able to pitch, he pitched well, why would he be sent home? That is issue, we were lead to believe that everything was ok then I get this email as if my son was a turd the whole time. We get a ninth graders opinion and dont know what to think. that is why I am meeting with the coaches.

I have even gone as far as getting some one-on-one instruction with his coach at the baseball academy to show my son that he is not some monster. 

Oh man, quit!  As the parent of a 2020 I'm telling you you are going WAY overboard.  You are now going to pay the baseball coach...what $50 for some one on one time with your kid?  Why? 

Okay, quick word of advice from someone who is SURROUNDED by people who are doing exactly what you are doing, just stop!  Fly under the radar, let your kid fly under the radar and only shine when it comes to what he can do on the field.  This advice is under great debate on this board but in my opinion you should only talk to the high school coach if there is a health issue.  Other than that I don't see the point.  He's got papers to grade, classes to cover, lesson plans to make, workouts to map out, batting orders to figure out, college recruiters to get back in touch with...etc.  If the coach says your kid is being a punk, and you know your kid has a tendency to be a punk then he was likely a punk and he should sort it out with the coach. 

Mchlwlsh posted:

holy crap...I got enough advice that it going to make my head explode. Thanks...

You're welcome  

Seriously, though, hope you report back with the results of the meeting and if some of this feedback affected your position going into the meeting.  Most importantly, hope things work out for the best for your son.

Your son is in 8th grade and you're going to talk to the coach? The first time I I talk to one of my kid's coaches about them would be the next time. And they're past college. As in it never happened. I let them sell themselves. I let them deal with their own situations (which were few). Oh, I had one conversation with each travel coach (two kids) on what I could afford for college. One time I was really pissed at the high school coach. My son told me to get over it. He already had.

"I have even gone as far as getting some one-on-one instruction with his coach at the baseball academy to show my son that he is not some monster."

imho OUCH.

That's going to far the other way and if not handled right can lead to other problems with parents who know that you did it. I've seen this scenario not work out for everybody involved, meeting with the coach about your son is NOT GOOD.  Perhaps I am reading too much into what has transpired, but if they feel they have to meet with you to effect his behavior he's got one foot out the door whether you feel its justified or not. CD gave some good advice.  Mouth shut ----> move forward.  It works at all levels of play and coaching from LL to pro ball, good coaches and bad coaches. 

Your son has to find a way to make it work, sometimes you've got to try what the coach suggests, even if you know its wrong technique.

 

I know you said "enough" on the advice but I had this thought earlier that I think may be helpful to you and, possibly, your son.  

A few times now, you have correlated how well your son pitched with expected acceptance of him as part of the program.   As a HS coach, I want players who can perform well.  But, I demand players who can be good teammates and behave up to the standards we set for the program.  I don't care how good the kid plays if he can't be a good citizen, representative of what the team stands for.  

I am more than understanding of young teens acting like young teens but there are times that some make decisions that are worthy of just sending them home and letting them "get right" before they return.  And, when it gets to that point, it is almost never the first time an issue has come up with that particular young man.  Again, I don't know if that is the case here with your son but it is starting to sound like it is a possibility to be aware of going into your meeting.

Lastly, I am always one of the first to suggest letting the kid handle things himself and it sounds like you are as well.  But, in this instance, where there may be a behavioral issue (on the part of the player OR the coach/es) and where there is this much confusion and disconnect, I actually think you should meet with the coach.  I would want the player present, though, so that everyone leaves hearing the same thing and hopefully being on the same page going forward, if there is a going forward.  In fact, I would also want all three coaches involved to be included if possible as well.  

I can give you several real life first hand examples that support this.

Last edited by cabbagedad

I have been down the strong HS coach vs academy coaches who know the boy better then anyone...you can't win don't go there. Have your son give the HS coach a polite head nod (do it sincerely) and never ever say I have been taught different. Just do what the man asks and forget it when you leave. Occasionally you find the HS has a good idea, don't be afraid to hang onto good ideas that work for you.

You have an absolute right to talk to the coach.  Your son is 14 or 15 years old.  People that tell you to let your child sort things out with a grown man are simply baffling to me.  We don't let high school kids have responsibility for saying no to sexual advances from their teachers.   Why should athletes have to, with out exceptions, deal with coaches or teachers or other adults.  

Adolescents simply do not have the experience, skill, tools, power or authority necessary to handle any number of situations with adults.   You as a grown man do.   For instance, I'll pretty much bet that the coach(es) don't talk to you as a grown man as dismissively and demeaningly as they did your son.  

My son is a Jr.  A teacher emailed to tell me that though he's smart and gets bored.  Some times he takes out his phone in class when he's not supposed to.  She asked if I could help with this problem.   I wrote her back that she'd better bet I'll take care of this and any other problem with my son not being respectful of the authorities.    If a coach emailed me about my son being a problem, I would want to know what's going on, and if he was a problem, we'd have a little heart-to-heart like CaCogirl did with her son.  That is an example of the appropriate time for a kid to learn to deal with "stuff" in life.  

But if I think my son is being abused or over matched improperly by an adult.  Yeah, I'm getting involved.  Baseball, robotics club, home ec. class.  Doesn't matter.  I am my child's protector when he needs to be protected.   You do the same, Mc. 

If they called your kid names in an email, that is a problem.  I'd want to talk about him being called a "turd" if that's what he was called.

And, BTW. I can sympathize with an incestuous little mind-set that can set in on some coaching staffs, where the whole crew can become little jerks.  Usually that doesn't happen.  But it most certainly can.

Ps., If your kid is having presentation problems, body language, tone of voice, etc.  Get on him now.   I've had to do that with my son, because these things matter. I get the sense your son would listen too.

Best of luck.

Old school, decisiveness and manner of motivation are a coach's prerogative.  The boy should probably learn to live with those types of things.   However, these things too can cross the line.   Listen carefully, and take care not to try to tell the guy how to coach his team.

It's a touchy, nuanced matter.  I do think that parents have a right to demand that coaches not only perform well, but that they lead their children well.

Teaching Elder posted:

Old school, decisiveness and manner of motivation are a coach's prerogative.  The boy should probably learn to live with those types of things.   However, these things too can cross the line.   Listen carefully, and take care not to try to tell the guy how to coach his team.

I don't disagree with this, I just recommend acting like you are listening closely even if you aren't. I have no problem with a man coaching however he sees fit...I just recommend a non argumentative way of dealing with them.

I agree, have the kid with you if you are going to have a meeting.  The thing that is really confusing me though is how does a kid pitch 3 innings if he's not medically released to run?

Mchlwlsh posted:
cabbagedad posted:

I know you said "enough" on the advise but I had this thought earlier that I think may be helpful to you and, possibly, your son.  

A few times now, you have correlated how well your son pitched with expected acceptance of him as part of the program.   As a HS coach, I want players who can perform well.  But, I demand players who can be good teammates and behave up to the standards we set for the program.  I don't care how good the kid plays if he can't be a good citizen, representative of what the team stands for.  

I am more than understanding of young teens acting like young teens but there are times that some make decisions that are worthy of just sending them home and letting them "get right" before they return.  And, when it gets to that point, it is almost never the first time an issue has come up with that particular young man.  Again, I don't know if that is the case here with your son but it is starting to sound like it is a possibility to be aware of going into your meeting.

Lastly, I am always one of the first to suggest letting the kid handle things himself and it sounds like you are as well.  But, in this instance, where there may be a behavioral issue (on the part of the player OR the coach/es) and where there is this much confusion and disconnect, I actually think you should meet with the coach.  I would want the player present, though, so that everyone leaves hearing the same thing and hopefully being on the same page going forward, if there is a going forward.  In fact, I would also want all three coaches involved to be included if possible as well.  

I can give you several real life first hand examples that support this.

Ha, funny you should mention that...I emailed the coach a few hours ago, the boy is coming with me.

That's another disconnect, a former coach of his that I really trust says the kid in the email is unrecognizable to him, nothing of the things the coach purrports...I have never told him to disregard a coach... Well except the time a little league coach told him to swing upwards, to hit more home runs. 

I really appreciate your candor and helpfulness.

I have never told him to disregard a coach... Well except the time a little league coach told him to swing upwards, to hit more home runs.

- So should he have swung downward to hit more groundballs? 

2019&21 Dad posted:
Mchlwlsh posted:
cabbagedad posted:

I know you said "enough" on the advise but I had this thought earlier that I think may be helpful to you and, possibly, your son.  

A few times now, you have correlated how well your son pitched with expected acceptance of him as part of the program.   As a HS coach, I want players who can perform well.  But, I demand players who can be good teammates and behave up to the standards we set for the program.  I don't care how good the kid plays if he can't be a good citizen, representative of what the team stands for.  

I am more than understanding of young teens acting like young teens but there are times that some make decisions that are worthy of just sending them home and letting them "get right" before they return.  And, when it gets to that point, it is almost never the first time an issue has come up with that particular young man.  Again, I don't know if that is the case here with your son but it is starting to sound like it is a possibility to be aware of going into your meeting.

Lastly, I am always one of the first to suggest letting the kid handle things himself and it sounds like you are as well.  But, in this instance, where there may be a behavioral issue (on the part of the player OR the coach/es) and where there is this much confusion and disconnect, I actually think you should meet with the coach.  I would want the player present, though, so that everyone leaves hearing the same thing and hopefully being on the same page going forward, if there is a going forward.  In fact, I would also want all three coaches involved to be included if possible as well.  

I can give you several real life first hand examples that support this.

Ha, funny you should mention that...I emailed the coach a few hours ago, the boy is coming with me.

That's another disconnect, a former coach of his that I really trust says the kid in the email is unrecognizable to him, nothing of the things the coach purrports...I have never told him to disregard a coach... Well except the time a little league coach told him to swing upwards, to hit more home runs. 

I really appreciate your candor and helpfulness.

I have never told him to disregard a coach... Well except the time a little league coach told him to swing upwards, to hit more home runs.

- So should he have swung downward to hit more groundballs? 

Heard a coach last weekend at 14u say "hit the top half"...my sons coach laughed at him.

Mchlwlsh posted:
CaCO3Girl posted:

I agree, have the kid with you if you are going to have a meeting.  The thing that is really confusing me though is how does a kid pitch 3 innings if he's not medically released to run?

ahhhh...actually, thats one of the things that I forgot. The coaches had his medical clearance, the only caveat was he was only to "run to his ability", meaning...run the fastest that he could without any pain. 

My experience with my sons teams over the years are that his coaches have had no gray area regarding medical issues.  If you aren't medically released to do EVERYTHING, you aren't medically released to do ANYTHING.  Odd that your sons coaches have a gray area.

CaCO3Girl posted:
2019&21 Dad posted:
Mchlwlsh posted:
cabbagedad posted:

I know you said "enough" on the advise but I had this thought earlier that I think may be helpful to you and, possibly, your son.  

A few times now, you have correlated how well your son pitched with expected acceptance of him as part of the program.   As a HS coach, I want players who can perform well.  But, I demand players who can be good teammates and behave up to the standards we set for the program.  I don't care how good the kid plays if he can't be a good citizen, representative of what the team stands for.  

I am more than understanding of young teens acting like young teens but there are times that some make decisions that are worthy of just sending them home and letting them "get right" before they return.  And, when it gets to that point, it is almost never the first time an issue has come up with that particular young man.  Again, I don't know if that is the case here with your son but it is starting to sound like it is a possibility to be aware of going into your meeting.

Lastly, I am always one of the first to suggest letting the kid handle things himself and it sounds like you are as well.  But, in this instance, where there may be a behavioral issue (on the part of the player OR the coach/es) and where there is this much confusion and disconnect, I actually think you should meet with the coach.  I would want the player present, though, so that everyone leaves hearing the same thing and hopefully being on the same page going forward, if there is a going forward.  In fact, I would also want all three coaches involved to be included if possible as well.  

I can give you several real life first hand examples that support this.

Ha, funny you should mention that...I emailed the coach a few hours ago, the boy is coming with me.

That's another disconnect, a former coach of his that I really trust says the kid in the email is unrecognizable to him, nothing of the things the coach purrports...I have never told him to disregard a coach... Well except the time a little league coach told him to swing upwards, to hit more home runs. 

I really appreciate your candor and helpfulness.

I have never told him to disregard a coach... Well except the time a little league coach told him to swing upwards, to hit more home runs.

- So should he have swung downward to hit more groundballs? 

Heard a coach last weekend at 14u say "hit the top half"...my sons coach laughed at him.

May not necessarily be bad advice given circumstances. Clearly, the goal is to hit it flush, but if a player is dropping his hands severely you could use language like that to "overcompensate" & maybe the kid finds it somewhere in the middle. Often when giving instruction to correct a flaw an extreme suggestion gets a slight reaction & adjustment. It feels huge to the player but it is not. 

RJM posted:

Please! Do not turn this into a hitting thread.

It's just a conversation about "baseball." So get over it.  These things tend to evolve. 

Steve A. posted:
RJM posted:

Please! Do not turn this into a hitting thread.

It's just a conversation about "baseball." So get over it.  These things tend to evolve. 

Hitting exchanges take a different turn than most conversations. They often get ugly with people standing in their own corners based on the guru they worship. More often than not when a thread turns from wherever it was to hitting it gets ugly and goes down the tubes.

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