Agree with nearly everything said here but… In the present world, there are many highest level colleges that get extra excited by the real good, hard throwing 5’11 RHP. More so, in some cases, than the real good, hard throwing 6’5 RHP.
The reason for the major interest in the sub 6’0 RHP is because professional baseball will seldom draft this pitcher high enough to take him away from the college. It’s just one more positive for the recruiter… better chance of actually seeing the pitcher on campus!
I have a friend who is a 5'10+- RHP. He is a JR at a D1 school who hits 90 and is a closer. Freshman Yr had TJ surgry. He threw 85 at 14-15yo and is extremely competetive. His tenacity makes him a great pitcherand puts him above others of equal talent. He has the lowest era on the team.
I have another friend in the Pirate organization who is 5'11-6' (maybe) and was told by scouts that he would have been drafted earlier if he was taller.
PG both of these guys you would know. Both are talented but their height has been an issue.
I have another friend in the Pirate organization who is 5'11-6' (maybe) and was told by scouts that he would have been drafted earlier if he was taller.
PG both of these guys you would know. Both are talented but their height has been an issue.
Don't doubt that there is steroid use in baseball. Regarding wavehogs post, I am not sure if a coach or scout thinks about a player using steroids to get bigger or stronger when being considered. How will removing steroid use from the game have scouts choosing smaller pitchers.
I just may have misunderstood the post.
PG,
Schools do not get penalized for drafted players. But I do beleive that coaches will look for some players that will remain longer than others due to draft (Ithik they actually do that now). It's virtually impossible to have every player you recruit stay for 4,5 years, no way you can get the younger players in to the game to learn with that philososphy and with 11.7 scholarships, seems quite difficult to balance. JMO.
I just may have misunderstood the post.
PG,
Schools do not get penalized for drafted players. But I do beleive that coaches will look for some players that will remain longer than others due to draft (Ithik they actually do that now). It's virtually impossible to have every player you recruit stay for 4,5 years, no way you can get the younger players in to the game to learn with that philososphy and with 11.7 scholarships, seems quite difficult to balance. JMO.
quote:Originally posted by Coach May:
Why rant and rave about the size of pitchers? If your 6'3 and throw 89 you are going to garner more interest than a 5'11 kid throwing 89. Anyone would project that the taller kid will have more room for improvement. That does not mean that the taller kid will always be better down the road. Its all about percentages.
What percentages are those? Please show us the data.
Instead of using the word "percentages" I think Coach May statement would be better fitted with the word "projection" and projection is an intagible that can not be data compiled.
I disagree with the statement that taller players have better range at every position. I think the smaller short stops have better range. Many drafted shortstops "out grow" the postion as they mature,fill out and lose the quickness required for ss.
I sincerely hope that overall diversity of pitches and ability to retire batters is the #1 factor on coaches/scouts minds, not 3-5 inches in stature.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"
njbb I believe that is what I said and generally shorter guys are more coordinated for quick movement. I still like tall in most positions if talent etc is equal. I know a couple 6"+ SS who are covering more ground and air space.
I don't think size is that important at any position except 1st base. What the pro scouts are looking for are tools. Major League level tools. As an example, let's look at the SS position. On the big and tall end you have Cal Ripken Jr. He didn't have the quickness or range of the smaller guys but he made up for his defensive shortcomings with defensive positioning and almost error free play. He also hit 400 career home runs. Something the little guys couldn't do. Then you have an average sized SS in Derek Jeter. He brings more range to the position than Ripken Jr. but not as much power. He will steal some bases for you though. On the short end you have Rafeal Furcal. You will not get any power from him but he is a top stolen base guy who also has a better than average arm for a MLB SS. So the bottom line is, all players must have some tools to make it. The guys who probably won't make it are the big guys with marginal power or the little guys with average speed.
As far as pitching goes, the best pitchers have always been the average to smaller guys. Probably 6'0" is all anyone needs to have success in the Major Leagues. I can add many more pitchers to that list who are about 6' tall. Guys like David Cone, Dennis Eckersley, Barry Zito, Orel Hershiser and many more HOF pitchers. In fact, all you really have to do is get hitters out. It doesn't get any more complicated than that.
As far as pitching goes, the best pitchers have always been the average to smaller guys. Probably 6'0" is all anyone needs to have success in the Major Leagues. I can add many more pitchers to that list who are about 6' tall. Guys like David Cone, Dennis Eckersley, Barry Zito, Orel Hershiser and many more HOF pitchers. In fact, all you really have to do is get hitters out. It doesn't get any more complicated than that.
DoD:
That makes a tremendous amount of sense!
That makes a tremendous amount of sense!
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
My son's are 6'5, 6'6 and 6'7. But Greg Maddux and Pedro Martinez are better than they are.
PG, the question isn't whether your (rather tall) guys are as good as Maddux or Martinez, but rather are they better than they would be if they were only 5'-11".
NL Cy Young:
2005 Chris Carpenter 6'-6"
2004 Roger Clemens 6'-4"
2003 Eric Gagne 6'-2"
2002 Randy Johnson 6'-10"
2001 Randy Johnson 6'-10"
2000 Randy Johnson 6'-10"
1999 Randy Johnson 6'-10"
AL Cy Young:
2005 Bartolo Colon 6'-0"
2004 Johan Santana 6'-0"
2003 Roy Halladay 6'-6"
2002 Barry Zito 6'-4"
2001 Roger Clemens 6'-4"
Others (in no particular order):
Steve Carlton 6'-4"
Sandy Kofax 6'-2"
Rick Sutcliffe 6'-7"
Fergie Jenkins 6'-5"
Don Drysdale 6'-6"
Gaylord Perry 6'-4"
Nolan Ryan 6'-2"
Jim Palmer 6'-3"
While there is no question that there are many great sub 6'-0" pitchers, it is also easy to see why MLB scouts think size is important. All things being equal (and they are usually not), size is preferred to a lack thereof.
Mike F
A couple things…
Derek Jeter is not an average sized shortstop. In fact, he would be one of the taller ones.
Mike F,
I agree completely with this
Except I would add one thing... The number one thing is always talent. Size could cause one to think there's more projection. My only problem, is that age old... we don't draft sub 6-0 RHPs thinking. There remain MLB clubs that will not bother to look at sub 6'0 RHPs.
I’m not arguing anything… Just trying to create thought. I fully understand there are some advantages in being big! I could name all kinds of “big” players who have been very successful. However, in this discussion, it’s the smaller stature players that needed to be mentioned. Otherwise, there’s only one side to the debate.
Everyone knows there are a large number of large RHPs in the Big Leagues. Everyone knows the majority of those pitching in the Big Leagues are over 6 foot tall.
The interesting thing to me is the size of the very best pitchers in the big leagues. Of course, there could be endless debate over who the top 5 or 10 truly are.
One could make an argument that among the current top 5 pitchers in baseball, they would include Bartolo Colon, Johan Santana and Roy Oswalt. Some might still include guys like Pedro Martinez or mention Jake Peavy. Some might say the top young pitcher is Scott Kazmir. Many would say Billy Wagner is the best closer and the hardest thrower. Not so long ago, some would claim Trevor Hoffman was the best closer. Last years best relief pitcher was Chad Cordero. Houston Street is the best young closer. Jamie Moyer is not big AND doesn’t throw hard, but has won over 20 games twice. And then there’s a couple guys named Maddux and Glavine who have accounted for 6 Cy Young’s and have nearly 600 wins between them, mostly pitching for a team that has won 15 straight division championships.
All these pitchers mentioned above are 6’0 tall or less. I ask you… Would they have been better if they would have been 6’6”?
Please understand, I love size, especially when it comes to pitching! All things being equal… yes… Size can make a difference. Problem with that theory… Look at the list above once again and as you mentioned. All things are hardly ever equal! We just have no way of knowing that a 6’6” Bartolo Colon would throw a lot harder than his present 100+ mph or if he’d be a better pitcher. We only know how good he is at 5’10-5’11. We have no way of knowing if a 6'6" Greg Maddux would have won more than his present 318 games?
Derek Jeter is not an average sized shortstop. In fact, he would be one of the taller ones.
Mike F,
I agree completely with this
quote:While there is no question that there are many great sub 6'-0" pitchers, it is also easy to see why MLB scouts think size is important. All things being equal (and they are usually not), size is preferred to a lack thereof.
Except I would add one thing... The number one thing is always talent. Size could cause one to think there's more projection. My only problem, is that age old... we don't draft sub 6-0 RHPs thinking. There remain MLB clubs that will not bother to look at sub 6'0 RHPs.
I’m not arguing anything… Just trying to create thought. I fully understand there are some advantages in being big! I could name all kinds of “big” players who have been very successful. However, in this discussion, it’s the smaller stature players that needed to be mentioned. Otherwise, there’s only one side to the debate.
Everyone knows there are a large number of large RHPs in the Big Leagues. Everyone knows the majority of those pitching in the Big Leagues are over 6 foot tall.
The interesting thing to me is the size of the very best pitchers in the big leagues. Of course, there could be endless debate over who the top 5 or 10 truly are.
One could make an argument that among the current top 5 pitchers in baseball, they would include Bartolo Colon, Johan Santana and Roy Oswalt. Some might still include guys like Pedro Martinez or mention Jake Peavy. Some might say the top young pitcher is Scott Kazmir. Many would say Billy Wagner is the best closer and the hardest thrower. Not so long ago, some would claim Trevor Hoffman was the best closer. Last years best relief pitcher was Chad Cordero. Houston Street is the best young closer. Jamie Moyer is not big AND doesn’t throw hard, but has won over 20 games twice. And then there’s a couple guys named Maddux and Glavine who have accounted for 6 Cy Young’s and have nearly 600 wins between them, mostly pitching for a team that has won 15 straight division championships.
All these pitchers mentioned above are 6’0 tall or less. I ask you… Would they have been better if they would have been 6’6”?
Please understand, I love size, especially when it comes to pitching! All things being equal… yes… Size can make a difference. Problem with that theory… Look at the list above once again and as you mentioned. All things are hardly ever equal! We just have no way of knowing that a 6’6” Bartolo Colon would throw a lot harder than his present 100+ mph or if he’d be a better pitcher. We only know how good he is at 5’10-5’11. We have no way of knowing if a 6'6" Greg Maddux would have won more than his present 318 games?
PG:
Another great post. With your open-mindedness and clear thinking you truly help make these discussions what they should be.
And just to add to your thoughts, it is interesting that there is only one Randy Johnson. If there were no diminishing returns on the advantage of height, one might expect a bunch of Johnson-type giants on major league mounds. There are obviously numerous guys his size playing college basketball, but to my knowledge only one is pitching successfully in the majors.
I tend to agree with another poster that, on balance, average size athletes may even have some advantages. Things like quickness and flexibility come to mind. I don’t claim to know this as fact, but I’ll throw it out as a possibility.
At the end of the day, it still seems to me that terms such as “projectable” are assumptions based on nothing other than a deeply-held belief. This belief may have some validity, but in the absence of real world evidence I remain, for now, un-persuaded.
Another great post. With your open-mindedness and clear thinking you truly help make these discussions what they should be.
And just to add to your thoughts, it is interesting that there is only one Randy Johnson. If there were no diminishing returns on the advantage of height, one might expect a bunch of Johnson-type giants on major league mounds. There are obviously numerous guys his size playing college basketball, but to my knowledge only one is pitching successfully in the majors.
I tend to agree with another poster that, on balance, average size athletes may even have some advantages. Things like quickness and flexibility come to mind. I don’t claim to know this as fact, but I’ll throw it out as a possibility.
At the end of the day, it still seems to me that terms such as “projectable” are assumptions based on nothing other than a deeply-held belief. This belief may have some validity, but in the absence of real world evidence I remain, for now, un-persuaded.
Dear old Dad,
Much of what you say is very true. Except the following examples confuse me.
Truth is Derek Jeter is 6'3" and in fact, a fairly large MLB Shortstop.
Once asgain, just in the interest of accuracy. Here are the listed heights for those pitchers.
Orel Hershiser – 6’3”
Dennis Eckersley – 6’2”
David Cone – 6’1”
Barry Zito – 6’4”
Sorry, always been kind of a stickler for accuracy. Other than that most of your post was very good.
Much of what you say is very true. Except the following examples confuse me.
quote:Then you have an average sized SS in Derek Jeter.
Truth is Derek Jeter is 6'3" and in fact, a fairly large MLB Shortstop.
quote:I can add many more pitchers to that list who are about 6' tall. Guys like David Cone, Dennis Eckersley, Barry Zito, Orel Hershiser and many more HOF pitchers.
Once asgain, just in the interest of accuracy. Here are the listed heights for those pitchers.
Orel Hershiser – 6’3”
Dennis Eckersley – 6’2”
David Cone – 6’1”
Barry Zito – 6’4”
Sorry, always been kind of a stickler for accuracy. Other than that most of your post was very good.
PG,
JMO with nothing to back it up but I don't think Colon would throw appreciably harder if he was 6'6" and I don't think Maddux would have been as good if he were 6'6". Something limits human beings to throwing no more than about 100 mph and size doesn't seem to matter. Size may get a pitcher with an "average" arm otherwise to 88 mph but it won't get them past 100 mph.
I don't think Maddux could be quite as precise as he is if he were significantly taller. Longer levers are harder to control and I don't think throwing a bit harder would be enough to make up for taking a bit off his control.
JMO with nothing to back it up but I don't think Colon would throw appreciably harder if he was 6'6" and I don't think Maddux would have been as good if he were 6'6". Something limits human beings to throwing no more than about 100 mph and size doesn't seem to matter. Size may get a pitcher with an "average" arm otherwise to 88 mph but it won't get them past 100 mph.
I don't think Maddux could be quite as precise as he is if he were significantly taller. Longer levers are harder to control and I don't think throwing a bit harder would be enough to make up for taking a bit off his control.
If there is a bias towards taller pitchers then it makes little sense to count the Cy Young's of tall guys vs. small guys and declare a winner. One could rather compare the "percentage of tall guys with Cy Youngs" to the "percentage of small guys with Cy Youngs". I'm just guessing, but I bet it's about the same.
Diamond Boy
You might want to follow this boy and see what some time in the minors can do with his velocity.
From Hardball Times -
10 things I didn't know yesterday.
Twins: At 7-foot-1, pitcher has high hopes
Joe Christensen, Star Tribune
FORT MYERS, FLA. - The Twins had a big problem on Loek Van Mil's first day at spring training.
They couldn't find pants that fit him.
Towering over the other minor leaguers at 7-1, the righthanded pitcher tried on one pair, and they barely went to his knees. So a call was made to the major league side, where an equipment manager issued him the biggest pants he could find.
Van Mil wasn't bothered. He has a good sense of humor about his height.
Sometimes he wears a T-shirt that cuts right to the point.
On the front, it says, "Don't ask."
The back says, "7-foot-1. No, I don't play basketball."
Van Mil, 21, actually has been playing baseball since he was an 8-year-old growing up in the Netherlands.
After scouting Van Mil for three years, the Twins signed him last July and issued him his first minor league uniform Saturday.
If Van Mil ever reaches big leagues, he will become the tallest player in major league history. He stands three inches taller than 6-10 All-Star Randy Johnson, and two inches taller than 6-11 Washington Nationals pitcher Jon Rauch.
Making an impression
Twins director of baseball operations Rob Antony refers to Van Mil as "a project."
The club plans to start him in the rookie-level Gulf Coast League this year, to let him gain a professional foundation. Three days into his first camp, he already has made a decent impression.
"You're thinking a 7-foot guy is going to be long and lanky, with a delivery that looks like a train wreck," said Rick Knapp, the Twins' minor league pitching coordinator. "That's certainly not the case with this fellow."
Van Mil's fastball has topped out at 91 miles per hour. He also throws a slider and a change-up.
The Twins need to refine his fielding skills, but Antony said the field staff "was shocked at how athletic he was."
Still, Timberwolves fans can cool down. It's not as if the local NBA club missed another one. Van Mil, whose first name sounds like Luke, said he never played organized basketball, only pickup games in his back yard.
Baseball became his passion when he was growing up in Oss, a city of about 80,000 people. In the Netherlands, baseball isn't as popular as basketball, but Van Mil is quick to note that the Dutch play some of the best baseball in Europe.
Van Mil said he grew up playing catcher. His favorite player was former Philadelphia Phillies backstop Darren Daulton. But when he was 15, the coaches in Oss moved him to pitcher.
The Twins started tracking him when he was 17. Two of their scouts, Howard Norsetter and Larry Corrigan, even offered him a few pointers.
Instead of using his height as an advantage, Van Mil was compromising it by throwing with a side-arm motion. Norsetter and Corrigan encouraged him to throw from a high three-quarter angle.
Van Mil adjusted, making it increasingly difficult on hitters.
"It's a unique angle," Antony said. "As a hitter, it looks like it's coming out of the sky. You just don't see it that often."
True to the Twins
After all the encouragement Van Mil received from the Twins as an amateur, it was easy to pick a team when it came time to sign a professional contract.
The Seattle Mariners were interested last summer, but Van Mil signed with the Twins without much haggling.
"I'm not a very good businessman," he said. "I actually told them, 'It doesn't' matter what the Mariners offer me. I'll sign with the Twins.' They're the ones who started, as we say, to roll the ball. It's not a million dollars. It's not $50,000. It's enough to buy a nice car, put it that way."
Even though Van Mil turns 22 in September, the Twins don't want to rush him through the low minor-league levels.
In the rookie league, he can learn the rhythms of professional baseball and learn how to hold runners on base by shortening his long delivery.
"He's going to have a lot of distractions that most rookie league players don't have," Knapp said. "But he's really a good-hearted kid."
Van Mil said he had thoughts of pursuing a law degree before signing with the Twins.
Reaching the big leagues, he said, "is the ultimate goal, but it's a long way."
At that point, he shrugged his giant shoulders and added, "If you aim high, that's always good, eh?"
You might want to follow this boy and see what some time in the minors can do with his velocity.
From Hardball Times -
10 things I didn't know yesterday.
Twins: At 7-foot-1, pitcher has high hopes
Joe Christensen, Star Tribune
FORT MYERS, FLA. - The Twins had a big problem on Loek Van Mil's first day at spring training.
They couldn't find pants that fit him.
Towering over the other minor leaguers at 7-1, the righthanded pitcher tried on one pair, and they barely went to his knees. So a call was made to the major league side, where an equipment manager issued him the biggest pants he could find.
Van Mil wasn't bothered. He has a good sense of humor about his height.
Sometimes he wears a T-shirt that cuts right to the point.
On the front, it says, "Don't ask."
The back says, "7-foot-1. No, I don't play basketball."
Van Mil, 21, actually has been playing baseball since he was an 8-year-old growing up in the Netherlands.
After scouting Van Mil for three years, the Twins signed him last July and issued him his first minor league uniform Saturday.
If Van Mil ever reaches big leagues, he will become the tallest player in major league history. He stands three inches taller than 6-10 All-Star Randy Johnson, and two inches taller than 6-11 Washington Nationals pitcher Jon Rauch.
Making an impression
Twins director of baseball operations Rob Antony refers to Van Mil as "a project."
The club plans to start him in the rookie-level Gulf Coast League this year, to let him gain a professional foundation. Three days into his first camp, he already has made a decent impression.
"You're thinking a 7-foot guy is going to be long and lanky, with a delivery that looks like a train wreck," said Rick Knapp, the Twins' minor league pitching coordinator. "That's certainly not the case with this fellow."
Van Mil's fastball has topped out at 91 miles per hour. He also throws a slider and a change-up.
The Twins need to refine his fielding skills, but Antony said the field staff "was shocked at how athletic he was."
Still, Timberwolves fans can cool down. It's not as if the local NBA club missed another one. Van Mil, whose first name sounds like Luke, said he never played organized basketball, only pickup games in his back yard.
Baseball became his passion when he was growing up in Oss, a city of about 80,000 people. In the Netherlands, baseball isn't as popular as basketball, but Van Mil is quick to note that the Dutch play some of the best baseball in Europe.
Van Mil said he grew up playing catcher. His favorite player was former Philadelphia Phillies backstop Darren Daulton. But when he was 15, the coaches in Oss moved him to pitcher.
The Twins started tracking him when he was 17. Two of their scouts, Howard Norsetter and Larry Corrigan, even offered him a few pointers.
Instead of using his height as an advantage, Van Mil was compromising it by throwing with a side-arm motion. Norsetter and Corrigan encouraged him to throw from a high three-quarter angle.
Van Mil adjusted, making it increasingly difficult on hitters.
"It's a unique angle," Antony said. "As a hitter, it looks like it's coming out of the sky. You just don't see it that often."
True to the Twins
After all the encouragement Van Mil received from the Twins as an amateur, it was easy to pick a team when it came time to sign a professional contract.
The Seattle Mariners were interested last summer, but Van Mil signed with the Twins without much haggling.
"I'm not a very good businessman," he said. "I actually told them, 'It doesn't' matter what the Mariners offer me. I'll sign with the Twins.' They're the ones who started, as we say, to roll the ball. It's not a million dollars. It's not $50,000. It's enough to buy a nice car, put it that way."
Even though Van Mil turns 22 in September, the Twins don't want to rush him through the low minor-league levels.
In the rookie league, he can learn the rhythms of professional baseball and learn how to hold runners on base by shortening his long delivery.
"He's going to have a lot of distractions that most rookie league players don't have," Knapp said. "But he's really a good-hearted kid."
Van Mil said he had thoughts of pursuing a law degree before signing with the Twins.
Reaching the big leagues, he said, "is the ultimate goal, but it's a long way."
At that point, he shrugged his giant shoulders and added, "If you aim high, that's always good, eh?"
Once heard that no pitcher since 1900 inducted into the hall of fame was under 6'.
Whitey Ford
Several others were listed at 6'0"
Several others were listed at 6'0"
If they win they are bigger than life!!!!
Size doesnt matter when you win--it only matters when you dont
Size doesnt matter when you win--it only matters when you dont
quote:Once heard that no pitcher since 1900 inducted into the hall of fame was under 6'.
Didn't the Baseball Hall of Fame start around 1936?
Gee, isn't the web loaded enough with misinformation without adding more BS? Very first HOF pitcher I looked up was 5' 10"
Burleigh Grimes (aka last pitcher to throw a legal spitter)
Maybe short pitchers had more spit. It's time to bring back the spitter to help the little guys
Burleigh Grimes (aka last pitcher to throw a legal spitter)
Maybe short pitchers had more spit. It's time to bring back the spitter to help the little guys
quote:Maybe short pitchers had more spit
It's easier to deceive with shorter arms
Just checked a few and found several under six feet
Mordecai Brown
Jack Chesbro (5' 9"!)
Joe McGinnity
Mickey Welsh (5' 8") from 1890s
Pud Galvin (5' 8") from around 1885
Height isn't available for some HOF players, Guess it wasn't a big deal long ago.
MANY are listed at 6 feet even
Mordecai Brown
Jack Chesbro (5' 9"!)
Joe McGinnity
Mickey Welsh (5' 8") from 1890s
Pud Galvin (5' 8") from around 1885
Height isn't available for some HOF players, Guess it wasn't a big deal long ago.
MANY are listed at 6 feet even
True, I couldn't find any recent short pitchers (I didn't check all of them) but Ted Lyons pitched until 1946 and Grimes was around in the late 1930s.
Chill:
I agree - that guy will be fun to watch.
I agree - that guy will be fun to watch.
lol...That was what I was implying. "I heard this or someone said that".....for a sport that has stats on everything from homeruns to popcorn venders, not much support one way or the other being brought forth.
quote:Don't be so sure on the steroids. They made bigger better and twisted the nature of the game. And, the fact is, pitcher's have used them every bit as much as hitters, perhaps more. That's part of the reason more pitchers have last longer (into their 40s) than pitchers of previous generations
I'm sorry I just couldn't read this and not say something. Taking steroids will noot lengthen a career. There are alot of people that end up having serious health problems. I play for TCB a premier team in NE and staff members from Perfect Game run it. They had a guy come in and talk to us about these suplements that are coming out as well as steroids. You see what alot of people don't understand and don't see is thye stuff that goes on off the field. There are tons of serious health problems that happen to players becuase of steriods. Jemaz, I am not bashing you in any way, but in my eyes it seemed like you almost are glorifying sterioids. There is no way that someone will last longer in the show by taking steriods, they will shorten there stay if anything.
I thought it was pretty simple....the kid with size is the safe pick. If a scout drafts a kid 6.3' with tremedendous talent and the kid doesn't pan out the organization just writes it off. However, if the scout takes a kid 5'10 with similar talent and the kid doesn't pan out the organization is like "what the heck were ya thinking" Too many of the of the later and I imagine he's probably out of work.
Unfortunately, there aren't any devices on the market as yet to measure a kids moxie.
Unfortunately, there aren't any devices on the market as yet to measure a kids moxie.
quote:Originally posted by NYdad:
I thought it was pretty simple....the kid with size is the safe pick. If a scout drafts a kid 6.3' with tremedendous talent and the kid doesn't pan out the organization just writes it off. However, if the scout takes a kid 5'10 with similar talent and the kid doesn't pan out the organization is like "what the heck were ya thinking" Too many of the of the later and I imagine he's probably out of work.
Unfortunately, there aren't any devices on the market as yet to measure a kids moxie.
I have no doubt this is true, though it may vary somewhat from one organization to another (the last time I looked at the Atlanta Braves, the majority of their 18-man pitching roster was 6'1" and under - clearly the exception).
The question is, when did this become the conventional wisdom? At what point did it become commonly accepted - based on I'm still not sure what - that drafting height was safer? Has it proved out? Has statistic-crazy baseball looked at real numbers to see if it's true? Maybe a couple of the Sabremetricians could have some fun with this.
With the pitchers that batters had to face during the 1960's such as ;
Jim Bunning 6'3"
Steve Carlton 6'4"
Tom Seaver 6'1"
Bob Gibson 6'1"
Sandy Koufax 6;2"
Don Drysdale 6'6"
Whitey Ford 5'10"
Jim Catfish Hunter 6'
Fergie Jenkins 6'5"
Juan Marichal 6'
Phil Neikro 6'1"
Jim Palmer 6'3"
Gaylord Perry 6'4"
Nolan Ryan 6'2"
Don Sutton 6'1"
it was felt that pitchers gained too much advantage with the mound height of 15". Baseball decided that hitters would fare better with a mound 10" high.
The answer was taller pitchers.
Hitters still didn't bat .400 nor did they hit more home runs.
Jim Bunning 6'3"
Steve Carlton 6'4"
Tom Seaver 6'1"
Bob Gibson 6'1"
Sandy Koufax 6;2"
Don Drysdale 6'6"
Whitey Ford 5'10"
Jim Catfish Hunter 6'
Fergie Jenkins 6'5"
Juan Marichal 6'
Phil Neikro 6'1"
Jim Palmer 6'3"
Gaylord Perry 6'4"
Nolan Ryan 6'2"
Don Sutton 6'1"
it was felt that pitchers gained too much advantage with the mound height of 15". Baseball decided that hitters would fare better with a mound 10" high.
The answer was taller pitchers.
Hitters still didn't bat .400 nor did they hit more home runs.